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User Topic: The Cheater Who Got Cheated On...
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Stop  Posted: 11:09 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

First post. Long post.

I'm a lucky man. I'm a WS who was found out, and has been actively recovering with my BS from the devastation I caused in our marriage.

We're basically in a positive place, moving mostly forward, and have rekindled much of the energy and excitement in our relationship which had been eroded or lost. We have also added in new and exciting dimensions to our "us" which, due to standing at the edge of the precipice of marital failure, we were unafraid to communicate to each other. Before discovery, we had somehow gotten to a point of lethargy and distant communication. And our dreams, desires, hopes and plans for us were lost in a grind of mediocrity of our own doing. And I used that as a way to justify and rationalize my behavior - a love affair with another married woman. Since D-day my wife and I are no longer lethargic and distant. We're connected, excited, and moving forward together.

All of the "marital renaissance" my wife and I now enjoy has been possible due to my lovely wife's strong inner character, and sense of self-worth (which took quite a hit due to my affair). She's tough, talented, beautiful, and kind (I know...why would I ever cheat on such a woman?). And she chose, soon after our D-day, to not allow feelings of bitterness and anger corrode and consume her, so that WE could begin to heal TOGETHER. It was an amazing and selfless act. I'm a lucky man.

What I'm struggling with right now is this: on our D-Day, my cheating was exposed, and at the same time I also learned that my affair partner had been cheating on me. Thus I'm a Wayward Spouse, and also a Betrayed Cheater. And in the aftermath of D-day, when I learned I had been cheated on, I started two parallel tracks: 1) as a WS who wanted to work on and save his marriage. And that has happened. And 2) as a Betrayed Cheater who felt deep hurt, anger, and resentment toward my also married AP for cheating on me...and I'm struggling with letting go.

My D-day came about because of my AP's reckless and selfish behavior. I'm not resentful I had a D-day - I deserved to be caught, and I look at my D-day as one of the best days of my life. It was the day I was forced to decide if I wanted happiness with the girl of my dreams (my wife), or to tinkle it all away having projected a fantasy life onto someone completely unworthy (my AP). I've chosen my wife, and every day I feel an appreciation that she decided I was worth staying with.

My focus in this post is the lingering resentment and anger that 15 months later I still feel, and which flares up. I was cheated on. And it hurts. I've shared this hurt in an ongoing way with my wife, and while she is doing her own healing from the hurt and anger I caused her, she has also been empathetic toward the similar emotions that I'm feeling. Yes...she is truly an amazing woman. She's justified in her anger, when it does flare up (not often). And I have no real right to mine, as I was hurt as a direct result of something my deceitful and callous behavior had created.

So I'd like to share what it feels like for a cheater to be cheated on. My AP and I created a fantasy world which was infatuation, lust, friendship, and love. For close to two years we connected, and experienced a whirlwind of new relationship energy and excitement. From the moment I had rationalized and justified why cheating was okay, I poured myself into my AP...and sadly projected qualities and character onto her which I later learned were missing from her core self. Part of my shame, anger and resentment is toward myself for being so naive and blind to who she truly is as a person. One of the things about an affair is that AP's only see eachother for short moments of time, and in those moments it is easy to put your best foot forward. Both partners are buffed, flossed, attired, and excited for the secret, stolen moment that's taken so much planning and orchestrating. You can hide sad truths and realities from eachother...and no one is burping, scratching their pits, and wearing underwear that was made when Reagan was in office. Our little charade took on a life of its own, and that energy I poured into her and us has seemed to burn a groove into my psyche which is hard to ungroove. As I've told my spouse: I'm over her. I'm not over being thrown under the bus by her. Aw...poor me, right?!? This is where karmic accounting comes into play. And I deserve to feel the hurt, anger, and resentment I am feeling. The problem is closure has never come for she and I.

When her husband and my wife compared notes right after D-day, it was then I learned of her cheating on me. And my wife gave him information from me that he needed to unravel her numerous connections with other men. Thus, my AP learned that I knew what she had done. In the moments after my D-day I was feeling the full weight of the hurt and devastation I had brought into my marriage. And I was feeling the sting of betrayal from my AP. And one thing I thought I would receive, but never have, is some sort of apology from my AP for what she did to me...lied, and ultimately threw me under the bus when her husband caught her due to her other connections with men. She was and has been silent. If we had just had a physical affair, I'd understand. But in our misguided fantasy world, we had created a love affair, and I will share that not once did she receive from me anything less than my best. I respected her. I was a giving friend. I was a great lover. And she came up so short in the end. It was a gift I received when I learned of her true self. But it still hurts. And I wish I could just let go. In a moment of feeling low last week, I sent her an e-mail wondering if she was ever going to offer an apology. I also apologized for how my behaviour in our own affair affected her family, and indicated all I wanted to do was be able to forgive her. Crickets has been her non-response. I told my spouse about sending the note, and said I had to do it for me. She wasn't happy, but still, amazing woman that she is, she said if I felt it was part of my trying to reconcile my "non closure" betrayal, she accepted it. It was a sh^tty idea.

My wife and I get closure. We get ourselves, and our marriage back.

But my relationship with my affair partner is like a silent, wordless, divorce in a vaccum. Not a single word of any sort. And I somehow feel in the realm of "honor among thieves" that I deserved the consideration of an apology. It speaks to character, and if the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night until I was able to tell the person I had betrayed...who KNEW I had betrayed her...I'm sorry.

I still have a long way to go. And my wife and I do, too. We aren't wearing rose colored glasses. But we are working, communicating, and committed to each other. Our continued journey to healing will be a long one.

I'm not angry and resentful that my affair is over, and that I learned some ugly truths about my AP. I'm angry and resentful that I don't rate an apology. Yup...karma is a beeyotch!

Thanks for taking a look. Any thoughts, ideas, observations would be appreciated!

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 11:15 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Any thoughts, ideas, observations would be appreciated!

wow, I don't know where to start. You deserve nothing from your AP. Forget about her. Work on healing yourself for your wife. If you think you need something from your AP, you have a LOOOONNNNGGG way to go my friend.

You're not a betrayed cheater. You didn't have a honest relationship with your AP so how could you be cheated on?

Gently, your writing reveals someone with a huge ego, IMO. You wax on and on about how great it was with your AP. What you had with her was sordid and dirty.

did you tell your wife you broke NC?

I know I'm being harsh but sheesh!


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4781 | Registered: Dec 2010
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Thanks for your note, Rachelc. I did write:

"I told my spouse about sending the note, and said I had to do it for me. She wasn't happy, but still, amazing woman that she is, she said if I felt it was part of my trying to reconcile my "non closure" betrayal, she accepted it. It was a sh^tty idea."

And I am in agreement my affair was a shallow, callous, supremely selfish thing.

I appreciate your take and perspective.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
bookjunkie
Member
Member # 39033
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JD,

I'm struggling with a similar situation. I knew my AP had several partners in the past. He and his wife had an "open" marriage. He led me to believe that he wasn't currently "seeing" anyone but me. And silly me, I asked him not to have any other "girlfriends" while we were engaged in our affair.

When I found out that he was in fact still meeting with other F*** buddies, I ended it with AP and confessed two days later to my husband. He has been surprisingly supportive and we are actively working on R. His attitude seems to be the same as your W.

But now almost 5 months after Dday, I still struggle with feelings of betrayal, that I wasn't "good" enough. And I would love to tell him what a piece of s*** he is but I won't break NC.

Really twisted thinking....all of this when it was all a lie anyway. And that's what I keep telling myself. It wasn't just a fantasy world but a giant LIE!


WW 43 (me)
BH 45
Married 24 yrs
3 kids
DDay 2/10/13 Confessed
Reconciling

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Southern USA
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Sorry, JustDesserts. The only people who deserve an apology are your BW and your AP's BH.

After all, you knew she was a cheater. You shouldn't be surprised to discover that...she was *really* a cheater. Whether it was just with you, or a dozen guys.

TBH, I think your AP is acting better than you in this respect -- she's gone NC with you. You haven't gone NC with her.

My fwh spent a long time getting over the loss of his friendship with his OW. They were good friends and colleagues before the A. So he genuinely had a big hole in his life. I encourage you to do what my fwh finally did, which is to fill that emptiness with figuring out why you had the A and working on being a better person.

And please do your wife the kindness to apologize for sending that non-closure note.

Keep working at it JustDesserts. It's hard, but worth it.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 855 | Registered: Sep 2012
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@bookjunkie:
I appreciate you sharing what happened and how you feel. Really twisted thinking is kind of consuming me in a spike up recently, and it bugs the living daylights out of me. I wish my one NC note last Friday never left my "Drafts" folder. But it did. The feeling of being betrayed isn't a nice one, to say the least. It has allowed me to appreciate even more what I put my spouse through, though. I hate this weak part of me. My AP is a guru level compartmentalizer. Not me...I'm thinking unfortunately. I'm pretty sure she sleeps well at night. At least, for the moment, it's with the husband she hates. Her own karma...

@StrongerOne
Thank you. My wife has received my apology for the note. She got a copy of it, wrapped in a note from me, right after I sent my AP the note.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
MystiKay
Member
Member # 36401
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I think you are still in the fog of the affair. It maybe 15 months out, but you haven't left the affair.

You do have an amazing woman for a wife. BEcause if my WS used the words, "Betrayed cheater" he would have been out on his butt. It sounds like your wife might be doing all the work of the Recovering while you wait for this apology from the woman you wrecked her world for. I hope you are IC and can work through those feelings, because they are not healthy.


Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2012
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Thank you. My wife has received my apology for the note. She got a copy of it, wrapped in a note from me, right after I sent my AP the note.

BS here. I don't think you have things in the right order here. Sending the note FIRST and then notifying your BS is all about YOU. This should have been a discussion you had before you sent the note.

You may have set your BS's healing back further than Dday did. The affair was all about you and the need for closure is all about you.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Beemer
Member
Member # 38499
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JD - I can almost guarantee that the pain you feel at being betrayed by your AP is not even a trace of what your wife feels at being betrayed by you - take that knowledge and offer your wife 100x the apology you think you deserve from your AP.


BW - Me (33)
FWH - Him (34)
Married - 8years
D-Day - 06/06/12
Status - Trying...things are good :)

Posts: 77 | Registered: Feb 2013
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I will share that not once did she receive from me anything less than my best. I respected her. I was a giving friend. I was a great lover. And she came up so short in the end

If your best was to present to her a lying cheater who was betraying his wife/family, then indeed you did give her your best. Reality is, you didn't give her your best. It wasn't possible given the situation. Instead, what you gave her was a facade of the good man that you wanted to be, but weren't.

As far as respecting her, no you didn't. You don't participate in an affair with somebody you respect and you don't have an affair if you respect yourself. Same goes for being a good friend, so toss that out the window too.

You are still romanticizing your affair. Your OW was nothing more than a player in the fantasy. She owed you nothing, not even the truth. The only person she owed anything to was her husband and you already know she wasn't willing to be honest with him either. To say you are hurt by her cheating on you is really disrespectful to your wife. See the affair for what it truly was and you'll move forward from this. Keep hanging onto that "love affair" and you won't.

I'm over her

Actually, you aren't. If you were, you would be indifferent to her. You are hanging onto the pain because it's the only thing left you are allowed to hang onto.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13724 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I speak from experience---closure is a myth and you won't get what you're looking for by trying to chase it.

There IS no honor among thieves. I'm sorry you feel betrayed, but to me it's kind of like the murderer feeling betrayed when his accomplice takes a deal and testifies against him in court. You sort of just have to shrug and say, "What did you expect?"

Please try to find a way to get past these feelings. They are not helpful to your healing and growth as a person. And---I'll say it too---kudos to your former AP for not breaking NC to reply to you. Sounds like a healthy action for her to have taken.

I'm not judging you, btw. I had irrational feelings of my own during and after my A. As an example, astonishment at my level of cowardice and hypocrisy after D-day, as I was the bus-thrower-under and ground my former AP into the dirt, when just the day before I had been proclaiming my love for him. So to an extent I understand and say that irrational feelings are somewhat normal, but you must find a way to let this stuff go.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
thinkingclear
Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JD

BS here. I have to echo the sentiments already provided. You seem to have a semblance of an understanding of the issues at hand. You have an eloquent style and display enough 'humbleness' to not come off as offensive.

BUT ... IMHO you have a lot of work ahead of you to figure things out. It sounds like you have an amazing wife and although I would agree with you being open and honest with her, I would caution you against inflicting anymore pain. She may seem understanding, but I assure you that she doesn't want to hear about your plight as a 'betrayed cheater'.

If you are committed to your wife and want to R then IC and a lot of introspection would benefit you greatly. You need to know the 'reasons' behind your A. Why did you allow yourself to betray your own moral code? Why do you feel 'betrayed' by your AP? In simple terms, an A is two broken people who decide to use one another. You and your AP were broken and you continue to broken. You can work through this and understand why you're feeling this way, but it isn't a 'healthy' feeling.

The fact that you are here looking for insight is very reassuring. Focus your attention on your wife and figuring yourself out. Good luck.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Hearing some things I think I was afraid to hear. The candor and "take" from those replying is something which will be tremendously helpful to me.

I'm struggling...obviously to everyone except the stupid, pathetic guy writing this...me

Thank you. I'm almost afraid to read any additional responses...

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 12:17 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Glad you're here, JD, though I am sorry for the reason.

Saying your AP cheated on you just doesn't compute.

If she was sleeping with her BH, was that cheating on you, too? Did you stop sleeping with your wife when you started up with the AP?

IMO, if you're cheating with someone---you can't claim to be cheated on by them. You're both living a lie already, why be surprised if the AP has other APs?

You were not cheated on. You betrayed your wife. Focus on your marriage.

No contact. Ever. And that means mentally, too.

Are you in counseling? Are you and your wife in marriage counseling?


Keep the focus on your wife and your marriage.

Good luck.


Posts: 3355 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My wife has received my apology for the note. She got a copy of it, wrapped in a note from me, right after I sent my AP the note.

So you thought of your AP first with no regard towards your wife until after the fact. That alone has to be incredibly hurtful, again, to your wife.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197379 | Registered: May 2002
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Quick NC question.

After D-day, there was never a NC "pact" or agreement. Just silence. I kind of kept thinking I might get an apology (delusional, it does appear). No one ever said "we're going NC". The numerous times my AP and I have crossed paths in the last 15 months she's sort of slunk away and hoped I didn't see her.

Yes...in all my brilliance I had an affair with someone who lives in the same smallish town as me.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@ DeeplyScared.

Guilty. And here I was thinking I'm not so much of an a-hole. Wow...


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
thinkingclear
Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

It sounds like your AP is handling it appropriately.

It sounds to me like you are fishing for more contact. Closure isn't going to come with an 'apology' or NC letter at this time. The NC letter should have been a minimum requirement for the benefit of the marriage. Now, at 15 months out, I personally would let it die. Only exception would be if your wife requests one from you. As previously stated, it now is all about your wife. You need to heal as well, but your healing has nothing to do with your AP.

It doesn't sound like you've progressed very far since D-day. That's ok, but you cannot be satisfied with where you find yourself today. Find a good IC and work on yourself. Let the AP go.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
MoreWould
Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My FWW discovered long after the fact that her AP was a player who had bedded, by his own confession, "hundreds of women, most of them married". Even allowing for plenty of boastful exaggeration, that's a lot of broken hearts and trashed marriages.

That hurt her, but worse his admission that he screwed so many women that he couldn't remember if he was doing anybody else (besides his W) while their A was going on, but it was likely.

FWW, like you, not pleased. She thought she was having a "real affair", whatever that's supposed to mean.

What it means is you both got your just desserts, just like all of us waywards, but you both got a little bigger karma bus.

Gently, from the tone of your comments, I'd say you need an even bigger bus. Year Two is coming up, I've got a feeling your lovely BW is about to serve it up. Fasten your seat belt.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 12:55 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JustD, it sounds to me, from your posts, that you have trouble empathizing. Sympathy is one thing, empathy quite another. Just as regret is different than remorse.

In the future, talk to your BW, ask her how she feels about what you want to do. Ask her how she feels about you needing an apology from the person you betrayed her with. Do this before you do anything else. What you did was perform what might feel like another betrayal, to your BW, and then ask for forgiveness. Have you asked her how she REALLY feels about that part of what you did?

Are you routinely someone who does what they want and then ask for forgiveness? Do you have trouble checking your ego and asking for permission, before doing something?


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I have several things for you, and they are not so padded 2x4's so get ready.

Read your whole first paragraph, I hear a whole lot of blameshifting your whole affair onto past marriage issues. You need to get real clear on the fact that the marriage getting stale was not the reason you cheated. You cheated because you have issues, YOU. Not the marriage, not your wife. YOU.

Second, YOU have never left the affair. Your wife's best bet would be to detach from you, get on here to SI so we could tell her how to do that, and you get busy on fixing your shit. You are so busy in la la land brooding over your AP that your wife never enters your mind. I feel sorry for her.

You are a cheater and a liar, You really expected something more moral from your cheating and lying AP? Really? What land are you living in? Oh that is right, your still in affair land. Pull your head out dude while your wife is still with you and giving you a chance. It may not last forever, ask the people here. They eventually get sick of that crap.

Good luck, and oh yeah, welcome to SI and the wayward forum, I was once like you too.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Welcome to SI JustDesserts.

Have you checked out the Healing Library yet?

Also try these links:

Things Every WS Should know
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

How Much Does My BS Hurt?
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=327446

Maia's Withdrawl Survival Guide
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=137622

I'm almost afraid to read any additional responses...
You know that fear? That's because the light is being shined into the dark recesses of your soul. You want to instinctively flinch back. You don't want the ugly to be made known.

Learn not to shy away from it. If something is said that scares the heart and soul out of you, hurts you, or makes you angry, it's most likely because there is truth in it. Explore that. Accept it. Embrace it.

I'm a Wayward Spouse, and also a Betrayed Cheater.
Look I get it. You're in loooove with the AP. She blew rainbows up your butt, you said cute things to her, you rubbed each other's ego. But let's be realistic. You had a spouse at home that was completely unaware of the fact her husband was cheating on her. She was a completely innocent party in this whole thing.

You deliberately stepped outside of the boundary of your marriage to play around. And you left your wife out of the loop. Your AP was not loyal to you??? Your affair partner? Dude, if you're at that point, all bets are off. Having an affair is not healthy. How do you expect the person you're having an affair with to be healthy? How do you expect loyalty from them when you're cheating to begin with?

I deserved the consideration of an apology. It speaks to character, and if the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night until I was able to tell the person I had betrayed...
Did you sleep well knowing you were betraying you wife every single day with this woman?

You're more worried about your ego that was trampled by a serial cheater than what you've done to your wife? I think you need to take a step back and really realize what you've done to your wife. Your wife is 1000000000% innocent in all this. You steamrolled right over her. And you're worried about an apology from a fellow cheater?

I'm not angry and resentful that my affair is over, and that I learned some ugly truths about my AP. I'm angry and resentful that I don't rate an apology.
Look into the mirror JD. be angry and resentful at yourself for doing this to your wife. The innocent in all this. Be angry and resentful for what you did to the other BS in this situation. Not only has he been cheated on, but he finds his wife is a serial cheater. My bet is, he ain't sleeping well at night.

Stick around. Read. Absorb. The road to R is long and bumpy. The fast track is 2-4 years. Most often it turns into 5-7 years. Are you ready to face this JD? I thought I was on the fast track. Year 1 was a nightmare, yet still manageable. Year 2? Yeah, it's not fun and games anymore. We've had a lot of crap pile up. I'm stuck with some things. My husband is stuck. Issues have come up that have seemingly stalled us out. What do we do? Quit? Keep plugging on?

What about you JD? If your wife suddenly isn't so easy going and understanding, what are you going to do? When she finds that anger, what are you doing to do?

Good luck.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6167 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

So....the AP was cheating on YOU when she had an affair with someone else, not on her HUSBAND.

Say that aloud a few times, let it sink in, and ask yourself if that makes any sense. From a BS' perspective, I'd be absolutely furious at an AP who took this position, whether I was your wife or her husband. It shows a shocking disconnect from reality in two ways - first, from the standpoint of you finding her to be otherwise virtuous (her affair with you alone makes her a cheater - she's not yours, bro), and second from the standpoint of you completely removing her BH from the picture and putting yourself in his shoes...where you clearly do not belong.

On top of everything else, you seem to be dehumanizing the real victim of her behavior - the BH.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 1:42 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1357 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

MH here.

The thing that's sticking out to me is that you decided to break NC and then informed your BW.

You are very lucky that your W is willing to try R. But you are inflicting EVEN MORE unnecessary pain onto her. Your job is to protect her, not continue to hurt her.

I'm sorry to say, but I'm a little skeptical that you broke NC b/c you want an apology. Any chance that you were looking to restart w/OW?

[This message edited by Vulcanized at 2:02 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 738 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Any chance that you were looking to restart w/OW?

That is exactly what he is looking for, even if it is only an apology, he needs her to tell him that he was really the one that she truly cared about. He was the special one. Because you see he still can't do that for himself. He still needs an outside source. He is still looking to the AP to make it all better for him.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
CrappyLife
Member
Member # 37630
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

BS here. Mostly, I keep away from posting on wayward threads because it will come across as very rude.

Reading your title, I thought it was your wife who cheated on you. Kind of a revenge affair. But then I read your post and it is pretty messed up. Unbelievable! At this point, I felt like smacking you with 2x4's. The experienced waywards have and will take care of that.

You are still in the fog. BIG time. Please for the sake of BW, read the responses on this thread again and again till you get it. Stay here on SI, read, post, absorb the wisdom here. The least you can do now is to not bother about you AP and work on your own issues even before thinking of working on your M.
Please do not make it tough for your wife than it already is.

Is your wife on SI? It seems to me that she also is in the BS fog and she needs to heal herself first before saying 'reconcile'.

You cannot reconcile until both of you realise the magnitude of your betrayal and resolve it.

Best of luck to both of you in your journey.


BBF-turned-BH: 28 (Me)
WGF-turned-WW: 28 (EmotionalFool)
POS1: a 'friend'? WW believed it was my 'best friend'!
POS2: her senior at work!
Together - 6 years
Married - 1.5 years
D-Day- 15/10/12

Don't know where we are headed..


Posts: 276 | Registered: Nov 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

2) as a Betrayed Cheater who felt deep hurt, anger, and resentment toward my also married AP for cheating on me...and I'm struggling with letting go.
Im a BH, what you typed above is a BIG reason that I am divorcing my STBXWW. My WW gave me the song and dance about how much she hurt me and she was sorry. She proceeded a week or 2 later to come in the house and breakdown. I asked her what was wrong and she didn't want to tell me. I prodded some more and she finally told me she was upset because she found out that her married AP was sleeping with other people in the office. She actually sat in front of me and cried about her affair partner cheating on her. That was the beginning of the end. she never worked through her own issues and I eventually got tired of waiting worked on myself and filed. I was in my own BS FOG for awhile and by the time I got out it was obvious that my WW had not truly let go of the A in her mind. She couldn't move past it even though it was over. She didn't have the tools to do so.

You speak of this new journey you and your wife are on. This journey and new M you think you are on is headed directly for a brick wall. Your logic does not compute. A cheater is by definition a cheater. Why would you expect your AP to have any loyalty to you. You are killing any chance at R that you might have before it even starts. Your AP and your feelings of betrayal are NOT what you should be focusing on. You need to get that out of your head asap or you WILL lose your Wife. All of your pain and working through it should be for what you did to your wife and family. Directing it at your AP is blameshifting and you not tackling the true issue which is your decisions and reasoning behind what you did. It's not always the A itself that causes a BH to walk out the door but what you do after Dday most certainly will push your BW one way or the other. Expressing pain over your AP "cheating on you" is one of those things that once a BS processes goes in the GTFO of this M and file for D column very fast.

ETA: there are some great people in this forum that can help and guide you. Listen to them. Also my intent wasn't to attack you. You are doing exactly what my WW did and I just wanted to convey that it's the wrong path to take.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:59 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official any day now, off to check the mail again.

Posts: 1899 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Hey...no piling on! Wait, um...it's seeming like that's exactly what the doctor ordered.

I feel a great deal of gratitude for the words, however unpleasant to read, that I'm receiving.

I'm thinking this day is going to be one I look back upon as a very important step toward moving forward with my hopes of becoming a better person, and a better husband.

I welcome additional thoughts, insights, and comments. Forget those 2x4's...break out those 2x8's! And a hug or two every 10 excorciating posts or so might be nice, also.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Small technical help. Where the heck is the button that allows me to snip and quote from other's posts like you guys are doing? Or what is the technique? Tx


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 2:53 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Reminder to the BS's....

This is not the forum to swing 2x4's.

JustD...please don't encourage it either.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197379 | Registered: May 2002
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My focus in this post is the lingering resentment and anger that 15 months later I still feel, and which flares up. I was cheated on. And it hurts. I've shared this hurt in an ongoing way with my wife

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just telling you honestly. If my husband told me something similar to this, I would leave him. And I've put up with a lot from him. I would LEAVE him over a statement like that.

I have a single friend who, in her mid-20s, had affairs with two married men. I remember distinctly a conversation we had about seven years ago. She had received a text from her married boyfriend that was obviously meant for someone else, another woman with whom he was also cheating. She was so shocked and felt so betrayed. She said, "I know I'm the other woman, but I didn't want there to be ANOTHER other woman."

From the outside looking in, it's easy to see how ridiculous that statement is. He was already betraying the person he had chosen to love, honor and respect, forsaking all others. Why would he forsake all OTHER others for his side piece? On what planet could she expect honesty or loyalty from someone who had already betrayed the one person he was supposed to be the MOST loyal to? But to her, it was a betrayal, because she was delusional. He lied to her and she lied to herself.

You sound like a smart guy. See your affair for what it was - lies and delusions. I'm not even touching on the disrepect and lack of empathy toward your wife at this point, because you have to get your own head straight before you can even see that.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6671 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@Deeply Scared: I am not feeling like any gratuitous clubbing is going on. There might be an extenuating nuance here and there that someone replying can't possibly know from my rather lengthy post...which might mean I'm only a little a-hole where they are saying I'm a huge a-hole. But all in all, I am sincere when I say that I really do appreciate what I am hearing. My face was pressed pretty tight to the glass, and getting dragged back, stood up, and told to look around at reality...no matter how painful...is a good thing. That is a very important step for me.

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 3:00 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I was cheated on

By a cheater. Otherwise known as Tuesday. I'm shocked, I tell you.

So you were rejected and it blows. Now what?

Whether you were a cheater or not learning to live with and deal with rejection is one of the most critical things an adult can accomplish.

It's a fact of life and that skill set is priceless.

Your wife needs to run.

You didn't choose your wife. You landed on her.

Start internally and get a mop. It's messy. We get that.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JustD...

It's great that you appreciate all the feedback and are taking it in stride.

The WS forum is not the place for BS's to swing 2x4's, its a forum rule so we do enforce it.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197379 | Registered: May 2002
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Start internally and get a mop. It's messy. We get that.

Yep, nodding head.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I hope my wife won't run. We'll be reading this together tonight. I realize many of you will take that to mean I'll be divorced tomorrow.

I'm just typing words on a page on an anonymous internet site here, but one reality I am confident in putting out there is the day we met, more than twenty years ago, was the day we both knew "'Till death do us part".

I screwed up epically with my affair. I've been blind to the aftermath. And selfish in my hogging a big chunk of recovery time and energy on my bruised male ego "How could my AP not really love me". It really does beg the question of "Why?" - and I obviously have some work to do in identifying and coming to terms with that part of my self and spousal deception.

Well, that ends today, and I have you fine folks to thank. I am going to stick around. I am going to listen. And I am going to redirect my personal healing inward, where it should be, and eventually that can flow, pure and free, to the woman I love more than any other on this planet. My beautiful wife...

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 3:15 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I understand Deeply. I'll let the mods do their mod thing. I must say I'm not really sure what constitutes BS 2x4 swinging. Thank you!


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Wow, not much to add that hasn't already been said.

When I first read your post, all I saw was you missing your AP. You seem to be missing the 'high' that the A gave you. I too wonder if you wouldn't have taken it underground if the AP wasn't avoiding you. Smart move on her part. You have no right to be angry at her. You shouldn't waste any energy on her. None. Zero.

You need to wake up and realized that it was all a fantasy. She didn't love you; she just filled you feel good stuff for her own satisfaction. She wanted the attention you gave her. It was all for her 'fix'.

I am amazed at your BW for being so accommodating to you. She really is a special woman and you need to treat her like one. Before she walks.

but one reality I am confident in putting out there is the day we met, more than twenty years ago, was the day we both knew "'Till death do us part".

Don't be so sure of yourself. It's that kind of cocky attitude that often gets us in trouble. Just sayin'...


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@sandaway. Thank you. One nit: I object to the suggestion of cocky attitude. I take nothing for granted, but when it comes to what the girl I married brings to the table in terms of her care, friendship, and love for me...and what we've been through (way before the affair), I am confident (not cocky) that our steel is tempered and honed to a considerable strength.

Kind of makes me all the more of an a-hole, though, for doing what I did. We need a new abbreviation in the dictionary: DD (Delusional Douche).


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Double post

[This message edited by SandAway at 3:32 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Quick Question

During your affair, did you ever feel that it would be a deal breaker for your BW when she found out?


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Regarding the 'til death do you part angle: remember that it doesn't depend solely on you alone. I think (and SandAway can correct me if I'm wrong) that this is part of what she meant by the cockiness of those words.

I had only been married a couple of years when I cheated. However, I was unbelievably arrogant. I thought I was such a prize and that being married to my XH was a lock as long as I wanted him, no matter what I did. Boy, were my eyes opened in a big way. Not only did he divorce me after my adultery was discovered, but once we began reconciling 2 years after the D, he brought many more criticisms/complaints (non-infidelity related) from our married life to light.

I was humbled by that conversation. Obviously by that point I had long since grasped that my cheating had been the final nail in the coffin of my marriage...but I had been quite blind to the majority of the other nails that had been put in before I was unfaithful, by other behaviors that I had just tossed aside as simply "who I am," take it or leave it. It was an eye-opener to see that, far from the great catch I thought I was, I really wasn't "all that" and didn't have him on the string all that while as I thought I did.

That's a very long-winded way of saying, you need to be very careful in believing you've got your marriage in the bag. We all went into it with intentions of forever, but it requires constant work and attention.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Sandaway:
I think somehow I felt I would be forgiven if caught. We were jarred from a marital lull, and though I might like to think I strayed because of the lull, I realize our lull became worse when I did stray. The energy I was too lazy to point at our marriage was projected into the broken vessel that was my and my affair partner's sham connection. You keep pouring water into a bucket that has a hole in the bottom, and it just won't fill...

She's an incredibly intelligent, accomplished, and self-assured women. She doesn't need anyone else on this planet to help her feel good about herself, and a big part of her recovery from learning of my betrayal of her was knowing she doesn't need me to in anyway to complete her. She's strong at the core, and her moral compass is unfailing. Kind of begs the question of why she married me?!? Well, maybe I'm not completely the profoundly selfish and delusional jerk I sound like. And I'm going back to the drawing board to map out a better me, which she deserves, and our better us is already happening (this thread to the contrary).


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Your BW is in a fog of her own. She believes at this point she can love you back into your M. When she starts to realize that OMG, he really did cheat on me, and not only that, he has spent a long time mourning that woman. Be prepared, there is nothing quite like the anger of a BS that has come to realize what the WS has been dishing out.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@heartbroken:
All evidence to the contrary, we have, in a parallel track, been nurturing and building a better us. I do appreciate your words.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Why do you think you strayed?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@tired girl.
She's been Eyes Wide Open since D-day. Don't picture a doormat. We have spoken in length regarding my feelings toward my ex-AP. Reading this thread tonight will not be a revelation to her. Some of those paths toward a solution that I need to (obviously) generate within myself have been suggested by her, patiently and lovingly, and verified by in numerous ways by nearly every respondent in this thread.

I get it...a bunch of you will be thinking "That little guy is about to drop into a hole and he doesn't even see it coming". Understood and fair enough. In a testament to the committment and strength of my wife, she still loves me, believes in me, and is showing me what unconditional love is. That's not weakness. That's strength...

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 3:51 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I noticed that in your profile Dday was in 2012. Please don't assume that just because your BW has not left so far that she will remain. Some BS's decide it's a dealbreaker in days or months and some take years. Don't assume she won't leave. Many BS's stuggle for a long time and many are in shock for a long time and can't face what has happened. I don't know your BS but if you are still having problems mentally letting go of your AP this far removed from DDay then you have alot of work to do. Your BS may not outwardly show it but she likely KNOWS that you aren't mentally all in, even if it's just in her GUT. If you have hidden your feelings for the AP so well that she doesn't know you still have them then you still aren't giving her the truth.

You are here asking about how to let go though so listen to the people that have been there and done that and come out the other side.

ETA: I just saw your post that your BS knows about your struggles with letting go. My post still stands. Don't assume she won't walk out the door next week, next month or next year. Keep working on you and I wish you both the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:57 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official any day now, off to check the mail again.

Posts: 1899 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

@tiredgirl: Why did I stray?

I think a big part of it was my fragil male ego. A part was the new relationship energy. And a part of it because I am broken inside in places I need to address. I will be doing just that vigorously, and with the support of my wife, moving forward.

Yes, I cheated on a beautiful (seriously), smart, sexy accomplished woman of character and depth. And I did so with a much lesser woman. Yup...I'm nucking futs.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

7Years: Appreciate your post.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

In a testament to the committment and strength of my wife, she still loves me, believes in me, and is showing me what unconditional love is. That's not weakness. That's strength...

Ya, see I don't see that so much. A healthy person doesn't stay while another person is in love with someone else. They detach, love themselves enough to tell you to go fix your shit and come back when you are healthy.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I'm getting a bit tired of reading the justifications in your posts because you have a few.

And a hug or two every 10 excorciating posts or so might be nice, also.

Why? What have you done or said that makes sympathy the thing to give you? We're not going to pat you on the back and say it will be okay.

Also stop with the I'm just a small a*hole not a big one thing. Your a cheater, liar and more then a bit selfish. The letter to AP yea the thought should never have been there let alone carried out. The thought that your wife will honor her vows even though you did not astounds me. You knew while cheating she'd probably forgive you so is that why you've made mo actual changes? You were not special to AP get that through your head. You fed her ego kibbles and she gobbled them up and she did the same for you. It's to the point where you still need them and have not learned how to give yourself what you get from others. In a way you're getting it from your BW because she's willing to just let you do what you need if it helps your closure. Give me a break. When she finally hits her anger and OMG moment you're in for a rude awakening. Back to the vows part though why is till death do we part more important to uphold then pledging your love and fidelity? More important then the words what god has brought together let no man tears asunder? I don't know if you had a religious ceremony but most have vows of fidelity and you already broke that. Why do you think she doesn't have the right to turn and leave when you already broke the vows?


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2703 | Registered: Oct 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I will be interested in what your W has to say after reading the thread. I wish you both the best tonight, this shit ain't easy.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4760 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Sometimes, when the BS is emotionally, mentally, and physically strong they tire of a formerly WS's reluctance to focus inward and heal themselves. Eventually patience can turn into indifference and simple tolerance.

Contrary to outward appearances, sometimes, you don't have all the time in the world to get yourself together. What was tolerated prior to the affair might not be good enough, anymore. In other words that lull you speak of might be because of your unwillingness, or inability, to be truly vulnerable with yourself, and with your BW. Now that she knows you chose to fulfill your fragile ego outside the M she may decide that you have a lot to accomplish BESIDES helping her heal from your betrayal.

Don't take her for granted, as you did with sending that note to your ex-AP, without input from her first!


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Evil  Posted: 4:17 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Wow...just wow...

I am not sure where to start. Sorry if this sounds harsh but there was no stop sign so here goes...

You expect an apology from the OW who was married and having numerous affairs? Why do you think you deserve an apology from anyone? She owes you nothing.

Your affair was based on lies and deceit. Nothing was based on honesty and truth.

If anything YOU owe her husband an apology for knowingly getting involved with his wife. She owes your wife an apology for getting involved with you.

You're hurt because your lying, cheating, lover wasn't honest with you?

I truly am not trying to be cavalier but wow you must have some ego.

And one thing I thought I would receive, but never have, is some sort of apology from my AP for what she did to me...lied, and ultimately threw me under the bus when her husband caught her due to her other connections with men.

Duh. You were recreational pleasure for her. And your feelings are hurt?

You are still in the fog and pining after the feelings you had with this woman.

Get to IC, get your head out of your butt and start to put all of your time and emotion into your wife, who is a much better woman than me because if my WH would project this bullshit on to me his ass would be kicked to the curb.

This is not about YOU anymore this is about you making it right for your wife. Get over yourself.

She's an incredibly intelligent, accomplished, and self-assured women. She doesn't need anyone else on this planet to help her feel good about herself, and a big part of her recovery from learning of my betrayal of her was knowing she doesn't need me to in anyway to complete her. She's strong at the core, and her moral compass is unfailing. Kind of begs the question of why she married me?!?

Regardless of how smart and accomplished she is - she is still human. You betrayed her and now you are wanting her to help you heal because your lover wasn't honest with you? Completely selfish of you. Don't disregard her feelings just because she is "strong" - it doesn't minimize what you have done.

Please please please get into IC. Wake up before your arrogant selfishness does drive your wife away. At some point, you aren't going to be worth it.

Good luck.

[This message edited by 1Faith at 5:26 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1105 | Registered: Apr 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

In a testament to the committment and strength of my wife, she still loves me, believes in me, and is showing me what unconditional love is.
Nobody is saying otherwise. My husband is still committed, strong, and loves me. Doesn't mean that potholes and road blocks ain't in the future.

We are just warning you. One day Dude. One day she's going to wake up out of the shock that has been her life the past few months and it's going to hit her like a ton of bricks. "OMG. He fucked another woman."

I don't care how saintly and perfect a BS is (and trust me, I did my fair share of crowing about how awesome my husband has been thru this process) they can and will snap in the fraction of a second when you least expect it. And I am seeing that more now. It's not pretty. And my heart is shredded because I did this to him. Four times. And I can't take any of it back.

My husband tried to love me back. Every single time. He tried doing everything within his power to make his baby happy. But I was a black hole. Swallowing up everything like a vacuum. Leaving nothing but destruction in my path, and feeling empty. After the 3rd A, he threw up his hands and shut down on me. I had my 4th A. The light finally clicked on in my head. There wasn't anything wrong with him. It was me. And when I started digging in, he saw just how horribly broken I was, and how deep it ran. It scared him. It scared me.

This process of R has been a ton of major work for me. I have done everything. Not saying that to toot my horn. Just reality. He knew I was broken and he was done fixing me. It was time for me to put my money where my mouth was. That's what I've been working on for 20 months.

Now, I could have had my 4th A and we could have been all, "Ohhhh, I love you. Let's just pretend this whole mess didn't happen. We'll love each other more and hold each other tighter. M'k?" Just pretend it didn't happen. Pretend I'm not broken. Classic rugsweeping. And sure rugsweeping can work. For a while. Till someone trips on the edge of the carpet and all that crap underneath blows up in everyone's face causing a reaction that would rival Downtown's 4th of July fireworks display.

And a hug or two every 10 excorciating posts or so might be nice, also.
Why? Hug yourself. You put yourself in this mess, now figure it out and learn to love/accept yourself.

Will we encourage you and hold the flashlight up so you can see the cobwebs? Sure. Coddle you in the process? Not so much. That mindset is what brought you here in the first place.

BTW, go read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Read up on boundaries. You'll be needing those.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6167 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
thinkingclear
Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

You have been given some straight up and experienced advice. Head it well. You've received a lot of attention today from wayward and betrayed alike because your thought processes and logic are flawed. It has struck a nerve. Digest it all.

I can assure you that in the back of your wife's mind she knows that you have given her a 'get out of jail free' card. Don't assume anything. Her patience will come to an end eventually if you don't work on yourself and stop the obsessing over the AP. If she is as strong and loving as you state, I would assume her standards and expectations are a lot higher than you can fully comprehend right now. Quite frankly, she deserves better. It seems like you want to give her better and for that I commend you. Stop making excuses and assumptions.

I wish you and your wife well as you go through all of this tonight. I'd love to hear how it goes.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I do commend you for being here and posting without a stop sign.

But, I agree with Unagie.

Please stop with the 'whoa me, I understand and I am over it' saga...

It goes waaay beyond a few people telling you it's wrong to feel the way you explained in your first post. You had a lot of stuff there, yet now your seem to be over it...

Seriously - read your own profile:

Once upon a time, a cheater got cheated on...and caught. Thus, I'm what I like to think of as a WS/BC (Wayward Spouse/Betrayed Cheater). You know what they say about Karma...

D-Day: Spring 2012 (both my infidelity, and my learning my affair partner had cheated on me).

Where is FRM when he is really needed to knock some good 2x4's around?!?!?!

[This message edited by SandAway at 4:32 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

The way that you are going on and on about your BW is really concerning me. It's almost as if you're using some sort of reverse psychology on her.

You talk about how amazing and great she is. How strong she is. How loving and committed she is.

I imagine that she probably IS all of those things. But I'm running into problems with your constant proclamations. It almost seems as if you are setting some type of *standard* or expectation and she is put in the position of having to *be* that *great saint* of a woman that you 'see' her as.....because if she ISN'T *those* things, then she is the opposite. Weak, uncaring, uncommitted, unforgiving.

It may not be your intention, but it's coming across to me as more-than-just-a-little manipulative......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7944 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
LosferWords
Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JD - One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up yet... once your AP was caught, she might have given her BH all of her email and social networking passwords. In that case, her BH could have very well gotten that email that you sent to her as well.

I think it's a good thing that you stay NC first and foremost for your wife, and secondly for your safety. If your AP's BH read that email, I'm sure he was not happy about it. You never know what people are going to do in a situation like this.

Good luck to you, and keep posting/reading.


Posts: 6757 | Registered: Dec 2010
MoreWould
Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

JD

You've got this whole thing tied up in a such a tight ball it's even hard for you to find a loose string to pull on, but unravel it you must.

As the successfully R'd BH of an Emotionally Unavailable FWW, I'm picking up some some heavy EU issues in your post and responses that I just can't shake. Since the only thing worse than amateur psychoanalysis is doing it by remote control at a distance, I'll just suggest you poke around on the threads and in the SI Library for EU Issues and see if you get a hit.

Not so random question: By any chance was/is one of your parents an alcoholic? If so, Google ACOA and see where that takes you.

And last, poke around NPD and see if you meet somebody you recognize.

You need help brother, you need it bad, and you need it fast. I haven't seen quite such a quick volume of 2x4 posts on SI in quite a while and there's a reason. Folks here are feeling it.

Personally, I think you're playing us, I think you're playing your BW, and I think you're playing yourself. If you're in counseling, I'd bet you're playing the therapist too. This is one mighty tight ball of string you're playing with, but there is a grenade at the center of it. Watch yourself.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

And I'm going back to the drawing board to map out a better me, which she deserves, and our better us is already happening (this thread to the contrary).
Don't make yourself better for her or for anyone else. Do the hard work, the introspection, the bloodletting and the stitching for one reason only - to improve yourself FOR YOU.

To do otherwise, to attempt change in order to measure up to an external standard - being a husband your wife will love and stay with - completely misses the point.

If she were already out of the picture, wouldn't you want to make a better go of things for your own sake?


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25059 | Registered: Aug 2011
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

poke around NPD and see if you meet somebody you recognize.

not to threadjack but - ha!


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4781 | Registered: Dec 2010
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I only read about half the replies but wanted to share a bit of my experience:

I'm a BW. After XH's first (E)A ended, I let him come home so we could R. The thing remember most clearly is him sobbing how his AP didn't care about him; she just used him. And I actually held him while he cried over her.

I'll tell you what, that one moment hurt more than the A itself.

I finally left six years and a few As (EAs and PAs) later. Looking back, I should have left after the first one. He was more concerned with his feelings and how people perceived him than he was with how he had hurt me (and his children) and I firmly believe this concern over himself is what led him to more As.

Please don't underestimate the depth of your wife's pain. I've walked in her shoes and I know how deep the hurt in this situation can be.

And if it was today and my WH was mooning over the AP? He and his crap would be out on the lawn before he'd know what hit him.

[This message edited by wildbananas at 5:47 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15383 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
loveisareddress
Member
Member # 36474
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Inappropriate reply.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:00 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Scorched earth-Like Peter the Great, he burns up his own territory in order to gain the upper hand while his own people suffer.

I don't need you to be happy. I just need you to leave me alone when I am.


Posts: 442 | Registered: Aug 2012
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 6:01 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Last warning.


DO NOT ATTACK. DO NOT PROJECT.

If you do, you will be removed from this forum.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197379 | Registered: May 2002
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My wife and I just finished reading the thread together. We appreciate the candor, insights, wisdom, experience and "tough love" expressed in the replies. It's nice to see people care enough to chime in, even if some of what's being said isn't easy to hear. Much of what was said resonates, will be taken to heart, and put into action.

Thank you!


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Neithan
Member
Member # 35924
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Inappropriate reply.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:15 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Me: BH
Her: WW
D-Day: 2/19/2010
Married 1981
That which does not kill me makes me more irritable

Posts: 321 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Among the Gaurwaith
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

WARNING


The stop sign icon is now added.

BS's stay off this thread.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

I read through this and all I could think was...

Dude, you were a dildo in her drawer. You are upset because your blow-up doll had other toys to play with.


Said that plainly, do you really want to continue to have your head that far up your own ass?

You didn't have a relationship. You were screwing a toy. You just didn't realize that you were just a toy too.

Now, stop looking for Unicorns Farting Rainbows that belch apologies.

Adultery, cheating, infidelity, two-timing, unfaithfulness, disloyalty, fornication, harlotry, hooking, hustling, whoring, unfaithfulness, Liar.

This is not some Epic Event that restarts your marriage. It has killed it. You don't realize it yet.

You have yet to really see what you have done.

When you do, I hope that you can give your BS the apology that she deserves and not the tripe that you have been spewing on SI.

[This message edited by wincings_sparkle at 4:13 PM, June 27th (Thursday)]


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
Happeningtome
Member
Member # 36327
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

JD - I know you are getting some 2x4's from other WS, and I am far enough along that I can appreciate everything being said, but am not eloquent enough to say them. What I did want to pass on was this....

You are not the only WS to discover that their AP was having other A's (I just can't say you have been "cheated" on because that makes me throw up in my mouth). That's because Cheaters Cheat. Sorry, but that is the truth. What a shock, right? Get over it. (Oh look, I can swing a little 2x2!)

My AP's wandering eye was apparently well known to a lot of people in our town, including my BH. After Dday, many people called him to offer support, and to tell him "well, you know he had an A with so-and-so didn't you?". The list is pretty long and sordid at this point.

However - not once did I ever feel like my AP "cheated" on me. Instead, it solidified my commitment to NC (big-time!), my commitment to my BH (who is really amazing to choose to be in R with me) and my commitment to changing my "wayward" thought patterns and coping mechanisms. Clearly, the old ones were not working well.

The damage I caused to my BH is unforgivable, but he has found a way to forgive, and move forward. But I can tell you that had I expressed any lingering feelings for my AP or gone on about how he should "apologize" to me, that forgiveness would NEVER have been achieved. The AP helped me destroy my family and my life, and I sure as hell am not going to involve him in rebuilding anything worth having. He is absolutely toxic to anyone he encounters. Hopefully you will see that about your FAP someday as well.

Good luck to you and your BW.


Posts: 74 | Registered: Aug 2012
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, June 29th (Saturday)

Note: anyone who is a “non-Wayward” who would like to share with me any observations, support, or otherwise via PM, I am sincere in saying I welcome hearing what you have to say.

Regarding this thread, I have reread my posts, and your replies, numerous times now. And I’ve pasted into a word doc on my computer the ideas, observations, suggestions, and experiences from you fine folks that, at this time, have resonated with me the most. I will keep that as a reference tool. It has been a good exercise in coming to grips with just how far detached I have become from my inner self and reality, in pursuit of craving, like a drug, those “fantasy kibbles” myself and my AP, both so broken, fed each other when we weren’t busy farting rainbows.

It is humbling to see my sad and broken self as others see me, and if I’m willing to take to heart what is being shared I DO have the opportunity to find, and finally nurture, the “good, decent, caring and loving” me that I’ve been so unwilling and afraid and too selfish to let shine through. The opportunity to begin to dismantle the distortions of self I’ve so carefully created, and so tenaciously clung onto, is waiting for me whenever I choose to start the work. This thread vividly pointed that out to me, and I know I’m not supposed to say it, I appreciate every word posted, even the few that had a component of gratuitous glee.

I understand many here have seen and heard 100’s of “Insta-Epiphany Cheaters” chomping at the bit to fix themselves and all of their messes…like, you know, YESTERDAY…and who sooner rather than later fail. I am going to try, with all the humbleness and sincerity I can muster, to be one of those cheaters who does, somehow and some way, make it. One who does find a path toward living an authentic life. My spouse, children, loved ones and friends deserve that of me. Most importantly, I deserve that of me and can’t deliver it to anyone else until I find it in myself.

My first steps on this journey required me to do some things I have difficulty doing: saying “I’m hurting” and asking for help. My post first post on this board was, in some way, a cry for help. A selfish, misguided, delusional one, but better than nothing at all. In just a few short days I’ve felt relief from some of my self-torture, and more importantly…hope. And I'm trying to make a start:

-I’m now in IC for the first time in over a decade.
-I’ve told my spouse she can retire as my mommy, my therapist, and my guardian angel…and if I need to process anything regarding my xAP - I’ll burden my therapist or you guys.
-I’ve gotten a few books that are recommended and which I’ll be reading.
- I’ll be utilizing this site as a place to post about my fears, frustrations, confusion, and hopes.
-And of course, much more needed and to come.

Am I riding the pink cloud…obviously. I’ve been there before in my recovery from alcoholism and chemical dependency (almost 19 years now). I’ve been there as I recovered from cancer (talk about the mind and reality playing tricks). And I realize I’m there now. I’ll choose to embrace my pink cloud. Beats dark, gloomy clouds of delusion I was staring at when my head was stuck up my ass. Thanks again.


[This message edited by JustDesserts at 10:23 AM, June 29th (Saturday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
JustDone
Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, June 29th (Saturday)

I'm angry and resentful that I don't rate an apology.

I understand a bit of this. At first I was angry and resentful that I was lied to by the AP, too. It was like I gave myself 'permission' to do this horrible thing because it was such a great 'love'. Whoops, I mean 'lurvvv' If the AP hadn't been blowing love~coated big fat lies up my cheating butt, I wouldn't have jumped. Right???

What I finally realized (OK, quite a while) afterwards is that I was angry at myself that I got involved with a AP at all. The anger and resentment was about my actions NOT his.

Keep going.

- (another) JD


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2783 | Registered: Feb 2006
Topic Posts: 73