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User Topic: Abbondad Part 3...
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I just told my WW I do not want to be married to her anymore and gave her a copy of a financial affidavit to fill out.

She was dazed, asked a few questions, burst into tears, threw up, and left.

Predictions for upcoming reactions/actions?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Whatever it is, it will be your fault


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I predict she goes to her apartment, calls Scum-OM to bitch and whine about how mean you are.

Then next time you see her, she'll be back to serve you the usual helping of bitch and snark, sprinkled with a touch of emotional manipulation, and perhaps some entitled bullshit speak as a cherry on top.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Maybe she'll send him another pic of her breasts.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1250 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Does it really matter how she reacts? I think we all know she will react in a way that suits her. Some days she will behave, some days she won't.

What is most important here is that you find a path that works for you, stick to it and be loving, honest and consistent with the kids. Now you have made the decision, your priority is to get them through it as best you can.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

She was dazed, asked a few questions, burst into tears, threw up, and left.

Pretty much how a BS would react to finding out they were cheated on. Being blindsided sucks. Too bad for her. The best revenge a BS can inflict on the WS is a heavy dose of reality and consequences. As for what happens next. Who the fuck cares. After the pain of discovering infidelity everything else is gravy. Now prepare yourself for the legal fight that's sure to follow.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5658 | Registered: Nov 2007
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Unless you actually saw vomit I bet it was an act to make you feel guilty.

Actions/reactions?

Work on HTFU. That's hardening the fuck up. Live, be, eat, sleep, breathe the 180. Give no quarter. Hide your own tears and moments of weakness. Avoid reacting whenever possible. Maintain NC except for very important exchange of facts re: kids. Share nothing about you.

Long run learning to fake it till you make it will serve you well. Keep her OUTSIDE your house. Change the locks. Do not open the door until you are ready to send the kids out through it. Better yet have her meet you at a neutral location for the exchange. YOU stay out of her apartment.

Your behavior is the only thing you can control. Set boundaries and stick to them. Act. Act in your own best interest. Do not react to her manipulations. Plan ahead.

Hugs for you Abbondad. It ain't easy.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I wonder if you'll get anger, like I did?


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2229 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Loyalty2Liberty
Member
Member # 36714
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Her thoughts, feelings, reactions, and behavior have had a huge impact on your family life for quite some time now. After all, she was part of your family, one of the people you interacted with the most.

It's only natural that when her behavior became obviously manipulative, narcissistic, and toxic that you learned to be very, very anxious about what she might do next, especially if she's in a particularly volitile state.

Your focus on her feelings is very understandable. You may still be working on transitioning out of thinking of her as part of your family. That takes time and effort. It's not a light switch.

You don't know what kind of social drama or legal trouble or god knows what she'll throw at you next, and that's kinda scary, isn't it?

The good news though is that you don't have to live with her anymore. You already started making big steps. Whenever you find that worry about what she's thinking or doing creeping into your head, remind yourself that her crazy can't invade your home anymore. You're making yourself safe now, so whatever is brewing can't get you anymore.


me:BW
him:stbxWh


Posts: 236 | Registered: Sep 2012
Mikey56
Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

AD,

Stronger08 said it best, "who cares?" She is toxic at this point.

Strength to you brother. You deserve so much better.

Peace AD....


Posts: 114 | Registered: Jan 2013
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I hope you waited until she'd cleaned the toilet, first?

I imagine she'll be up and down, and angry and conciliatory, depending on what happens from time to time.

Stay the course regarding what is best for you and Abbondad's kids.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I predict rollercoaster. She is going to cycle through all her manipulations interspersed with extreme rage because you are not behaving like the guy she has become accustomed to using.


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, June 17th (Monday)

One possible reaction is that she will get a lawyer and file.

Please be the one to do that first.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, June 17th (Monday)

I would say she will come at you to win you back, but not really commit. Just a means to keep you as plan B. She wants her new life, but you had better stay in that little box she has allocated and enough life for you.

She wouldn't mean it if she did pour on the sugar. It would be all manipulation to keep stringing you along, making you double your decision. Once she sees you waiver, it is back to the same old cold wife, blaming you for everything, throwing OM in your face. Don't bite.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2966 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, June 17th (Monday)

My guess is that she will come to you crying, saying "it's over" (lying, because she will plan to keep him on the side), and try to convince you that she finally understands what she has done (she won't) and that she wants you back. The last part may be a bit of the truth as you are her safety net and she does want you to continue to be that for her.

Or she might get really nasty and fight you on everything, because you've been so mean.

Really, as stronger said, who cares? You're moving on and getting stronger every day yourself. We can see it even when you can't. No matter what she does, continue to come here for support.


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1471 | Registered: Nov 2010
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, June 17th (Monday)

What stronger said

As for what happens next. Who the fuck cares.

and what deadmumwalking said

One possible reaction is that she will get a lawyer and file.
Please be the one to do that first.

Seriously STOP thinking, worrying, giving 2 shits about what she is thinking. The only thing you need to seriously consider is that once it becomes real to her that you want a divorce she will try to burn your ass to the ground.

Stop playing defense and go on the offensive. Start filling out the paperwork the lawyer sent you and start the process. The sooner you start the better your chances are of getting a fair deal. I got lucky. I filed while my STBX still felt guilt and walked away with a more than fair deal. I have 50/50 joint and legal custody of my children, kept my 401k, pension, the house, we kept our own debt, I pay state mandated CS, and no alimony. If I had tried to get that deal with her now she would laugh in my face. It's a business deal so get good at negotiating and remove the emotion.

Also keep a VAR with you at all times when talking to her in person.

ETA: this wasn't a 2X4, just hope you realize that fair doesn't really exist in the legal system. The sooner you get going the better off you will be. You are both playing chicken now and you can't win because until you detach she is driving a semi truck and you are on a skateboard. Focus and get through the lawyers homework assignments for you as quickly as you can. Yes it will suck but do some reading around the forums for some of the horror stories some BS's have related to D and the court system. I am just saying give yourself the best chance you have to come out with a fair deal and hopefully better than fair.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:19 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Hi, Everyone,

Rough morning. Last night after delivering the divorce decree and feeling empowered, this morning I've been falling apart: shouting "at her" in the car ("How could you do,this," etc.), much sobbing.

I guess it's natural to have it hit me like this. Plus it was a tough morning getting the kids off to camp, walking three dogs, cleaning their nightly poop and pee... Just the life of a single dad, which I do not like and never planned for. I get everything done, but I am so angry with her for forcing me into this role.

I suppose I derive some bitter comfort from the fact that she is a terrible single mom--no control over the kids (who behave badly with her), cannot manage any chores or finances on her own....

As I seem to find myself in a vindictive mood (it provides me with some comfort, so indulge me):

Predict her future with the OM. I need some "karma comfort."

Again, some background: he is a 38 year old bachelor (WW is 42). Never married, no kids. Lives a bachelors lifestyle at a yacht club.

He never broke it off with her in the two years they've been at it. She has never left me. They have never spent one night together (she never slept over; always came home to me).

They have never been away together. They have never had much time together outside of three situations: work, before sex, during sex, and just after sex. And of course lots of phone time and texting.

Outcomes?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Outcome: AD doesn't give a damn. AD is completely indifferent to them and their life.

AD and his kids form an incredible family. Even though this path was not the one he chose, he has made the best of it. the kids and he are stronger and emotionally healthier than ever due to the trials of the past....and due to awesome therapists!

Life goes on, and AD's life is serene, joyful, and full of love.


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Predict her future with the OM. I need some "karma comfort."

No one can predict the future. The karma bus doesn't always make rounds and sometimes it never does. In fact I will one up you. What if he is "the one" and they live happily ever after and get married? Then what? Is that karma? Sometimes even if the karma bus hits, you don't always get to see the aftermath.

How about this instead, sit down and start thinking about Abbondad's future without your STBXWW. It seems weird at first but keep saying it over and over and it will stick. I can predict what your future will be pretty easily. If you choose to stop focusing on your hopefully STBXWW and turn that focus on you then your future will be great even if you can't see it yet. Keep focusing on resolving your issues whatever they may be and eventually you will be happy by yourself. Your M won't define you, your EX won't define you, and her A won't define you. You will define you and you will be truly happy. At some point you will start dating again but you will make better decisions because you worked through YOUR baggage and dating will actually be fun because there will be no pressure. You will be happy because you are happy with yourself. Your kids will be happy because you provide a stable home for them.


Or you can sit around wondering what your WW has been up to with OM or new OM or the next OM and continue to be miserable. If you don't let her go what you are experiencing now IS your future just worse because you will remain hung up on her. Worst case scenario she does come back to you as plan B and you think you are happy for a few months but you won't be because she will want to rugsweep and you won't be able to. She won't work on her issues so nothing changes and eventually she leaves you again, another DDay, or files for D. Either way much more pain and misery for you and your kids.

Not exactly what you asked and I guess you were looking for an answer along the lines of it won't work with OM. That is likely true but it won't work with you either because she is still broken so once she uses up this OM she WILL move on to the next one. So stop focusing on her and focus on you and moving forward. The more time you spend thinking of her and OM the longer you stay in the shitstorm. Detach and free yourself so when your D is final you can walk away without any emotional ties to her that she can use. Indifference is a great thing once you get there.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:35 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Outcomes?

Whatever you decide to make it. Are you the person you want to be, or becoming that person? Dor you provide a safe and nurturing environment for your children? Do you pursue fitness so that in your older age you can be activy and healthy? Is your work supporting you or eating at you?

The success or lack thereof in your life will not be measured by what occurs in your XWW's life, but in the things you accomplish and the things you attempt.

I know you were looking to indulge in some "look how much WW has f*cked *p her life", but that only serves to connect you back to her drama. I would rather celebrate the at time painful success that AD is having blazing the new trail for his life.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4130 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Chrysalis and 7rs,

Actually that is what I need to hear--healthy thoughts, empowering envisioning. Not anger, not vindictiveness. These keep me in the pointless painless cycle.

You are wise. I look forward to the day I have truly survived this, reached the holy grail of indifference, and can join the ranks of those who guide others through their journey.

Thanks again.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Good for you. YOU just gave yourself the best gift for Father's Day that you can imagine. It may not seem like it, as she continues to play out as much drama as possible, but remember what she has done, and how she has hurt your kids. Allow that to give you strength.

Keep up the good work.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, June 17th (Monday)

You're doing good AD - stick with it and forget about what she is thinking. feeling. doing. It's no longer important to YOU.

And even if it is - fake it til you make it. It works (trust me on this).

Daydream about a happy future without her - indulge yourself. Do the things you always wanted to do. Then pick some elemnets from that and keep them with you in your mind. I did this - focused on a new place to live - it helped me through darker days thinking about my new home and what it would be like.

My actual future - well I got to keep the marital home so now I set about making it the way I want it. Doesn't matter if that future is the one that pans out - just have some kind of a vision no matter what it is. And then hang onto it.

V



Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Thanks, Everyone. Heading to my wonderful therapist. Agenda: ME.

But if I can return to one of my previous posts asking for predictions on upcoming reactions from STBXWW (notice this is the first time I am using this acronym? :-), just got the first reaction via text: "I don't know how to handle all this. Can't concentrate."

Read: Pity party. Help me.

I did not even respond.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 17th (Monday)

"I don't know how to handle all this. Can't concentrate."

Think this: Waaahhhhh! Grow up and quit acting like a lower muppet.

Actual response: chirp chirp


[This message edited by debbysbaby at 12:28 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2011
philly172
Member
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, June 17th (Monday)

prediction? I'll give you my thoughts.. your sitch sounds a lot like mine was.. it is a little different but when I read your description of the OM & their
'relationship' something clicked..

OW in my case was married, with a baby.. most of the A was conducted at work & after work.. I don't know how much sex was involved (WH has ED) but they (WH & OW) texted CONSTANTLY!!! They were in luuuuvvvv & were planning a life together (all talk.. like high school) OW loved the feeling WH gave her.. She loved the attention WH gave her..

BUT.....


Once WH filed for D from me, EVERYTHING changed.. OW no longer wanted the relationship & even went so far as to file harassment charges against WH..

She liked the mystery, the A excitement.. she didn't want him to be free..

My feeling is the OM in your case could possibly feel the same way.. he likes the A, the occasional sex, but doesn't want any commitment from your WW.. OM doesn't want to deal with any parenting responsibilities..

The reason your WW isn't breaking off the A is she hasn't had any consequences for the A.. you have let it keep going on for 2 years & have done nothing...

I predict if you file for D, their (OM & WW) relationship will change .. WW will hate not having you to fall back on anymore & OM will possibly run for the hills to avoid committing to her..

Filing doesn't mean you have to follow through with the D, it just gets the ball rolling & in many cases awakens the WS..

Even tho my WH was the one who filed the D opened his & OW eyes & less than 10 days after he filed we were back together trying to work on the M.. (we are still together 5 years later & WH has never cheated since)

This is just MY prediction..

[This message edited by philly172 at 1:11 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4779 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Hey Dad, I imagine Father's Day was tough for you. Even though my WH & I are working hard to R, I still miss my Dad and he passed away almost 10 years ago :( Please stop worrying about how your WW is going to react/deal with her emotions now. Whether she & OM " make it ", long term shouldn't be your concern! Don't mean to be harsh but continue to work on you and your kiddos and FTB! I envision you breaking free of your WW's hold on you and ADad being an ear/lifeline to member's of SI in the future!! Hug your kids, be strong and know you have lots of virtual friends in your corner, Dad:) All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the encouragement.

Today has been a rough day, as it always is after therapy. Had an early morning appointment so she saw me at my sobbing worst. When she asked why I arrived like that I told her that mornings are always the worst:

You wake up with the same person for over ten years, and then that person is no longer there. And the person you want to tell about this pain and find some comfort from is the very one who has brought about the pain.

It's a deep almost existential pain, you know? A world you were not always so aware of is abruptly gone. Family, wife, security.

Anyway, a "great" therapy session in any case. It always takes a day or two just to recover from therapy! But I am not feeling strong or empowered, just grief stricken that my marriage is really concluding. I have the kids for five days and I feel guilty because I am not really engaged with them. Everything seems overwhelming: cooking, cleaning, laundry, bedtime rituals--everything I always had a teammate for.

Sorry for the self-pity. Just needed to express.....

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 12:17 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Hey Abbondad, I know what you mean about therapy making you feel unsettled and emotionally wrung out.

Once I identified the timing of my meltdowns coincided with IC, I talked to my IC at the next session about what to do about it. My IC, while getting into some very deep stuff, is also practical and focuses not just on how I feel but what I DO. Of course these are related but....

Your behavior is something you actually have a LOT of control over, in contrast to thoughts, memories, and feelings which for me anyway, arrive uninvited and tend to hang around way too long, like bad house guests.

So we discussed different options I had in modifying my behavior before, immediately after, and somewhat later after therapy, so help me through those rough hours or days.

Possibilities included a lot of really basic self care, but also "tricks" I could play on myself so I could snap out of the blahs, blues, paralysis, and sobbing. For example:

Eat protein for breakfast instead of carbs so I didn't get a blood sugar crash right after I got out of session.

Leave 5 minutes earlier than I need to so I am not anxious in the car just because I'm worried about being late.

Reschedule my mid day. Do not see, speak to, read texts or emails or otherwise interact with WS for at least X hours after session so I avoid unneccessary triggers when I am raw.

Plan exercise, such as walking the dog, a bike ride, or chopping wood for my first activity after session.

Call my sister to listen to her tell me about her life. This allowed my mind to put therapy into the subconscious for a while while I was distracted.

Set an alarm on my phone for 90 minutes after session and take my second dose of AD meds that day a couple hours earlier than usual.

A rule; If I have to cry, I have to also make tea. Crying is OK, but once the mug is empty my tears would usually dry up. If not, another mug of tea. It ritualized my meltdowns. It acknowledged them. It gave me not just permission to cry, but a format for doing so. Hey, my life sucks. I hurt dammit. If I need to cry, it is legit! Get it done in style, with love and care for me and what I am coping with.

Shower. Wash that shit down the drain. Soap or no soap, shampoo or not. Doesn't matter. Get under the water. Then dry off, lotion, clean comfy clothes, and step outside into the air. It's about your skin. You live in it. It holds you in. Help it get soft and flexible. Stretch some muscles. Breathe 15 super deep breaths to purge stale air and bring fresh in.

Find something visually pleasing to look at. Grass, trees, the dog, your mug. Focus on the details of what your eyes are drawn to. Study them.

Anyway, you probably get my point. Meltdowns happen. But you have a life to live so best to shorten their duration, lessen their severity, and not wallow. Don't let them consume you.

You will get through this. We are all here to assure you. We got through it, so will you. Find a way to get through therapy and the next six hours, by aknowledging the stress and caring for YOU during this tough time.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:36 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Abbondad, what Heartbroken_KK said is AWESOME advice... I know all about those meltdowns, they are part of what happens. Taking a practical approach to them will lessen their power over you.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Hi Friends,

I had to speak with my wife on the phone to discuss our son's upcoming appointment with his child psychologist. (I know, email/text only. But this really required a dialogue. I have returned promptly to the 180.)

He is nine and has been talking about death: "Daddy, I'm afraid you're going to kill yourself," and the other night "I don't want to die." Nine. Years. Old. I am not sure how to take this--maybe it is a manifestation of his fear of abandonment--but I am very alarmed and frightened. So I am glad we could set up an appt. for tomorrow morning.

So after this topic, the crumbs of hope start flying:

"I am not doing well," tearfully.

"I haven't filled out the financial affidavit."

And best of all: "I am going to set up an appointment for therapy!"

Uh huh. Good. Ok. See you tomorrow at the doc's.

Nevertheless of course I was torn up after the call, but this morning I feel better. It seems I recuperate more quickly than I used to.

I am busy getting all the paperwork on my end set up so we can get this thing done already. We are going to try mediation, but with attorneys. 3000.00 plus attorney fees.

This is so incredibly hard.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Stay strong. You did well.
Did you see what she was doing to you? Do you see the manipulation? When you really do it will make being indifferent to her much easier.

Good luck with your son today too. He may just be really looking at what death is, and realizing what it means. Many kids lack the ability to understand what it is until they are around his age. Constant reassurance is the best medicine, esp when it comes to him expressing his fear of you being suicidal. This is why it is so important for you to keep your shit together in front of them.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
little turtle
Member
Member # 15584
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

She's still full of herself... all 3 of your quotes from her start with "I." Don't waste your hope on her being worried about herself. And none of those quotes show any action that has been done towards rebuilding your relationship.

You've come a long way. I was once in your place. SI threw 1,000s of 2x4s at me trying to get me to see reality. I held on to hope for WAY longer than I should have. I settled for WAY less than I deserved. Like you, I took every crumb I could find. We all have to make our own mistakes and walk our own paths. One day you'll be where I am now, looking back and seeing yourself in someone else. And realizing how far you've come!

I've been following along and I'm proud of the changes I see you making for yourself and your family. Keep up with NC and 180. Continue to get your paperwork done and as you said yourself, "get this thing done already."


Failure is success if we learn from it.

Posts: 4166 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: michigan
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Ahh ! the reality is finally setting in.
No more "plan B", that's you, to fall back on.
Your moving on and your WW can't handle it.
Keep moving on and if she has a change of heart, it will be up to her to catch up.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Jaime:

I still miss my Dad and he passed away almost 10 years ago

Thank you. It's just that much harder to go through this without them. My parents and I were very close and their life revolved around happiness for their children.

My father has been gone for around eight years, my mom for three.

Ironically they loved my wife as a daughter and she loved them. (Well, I guess one could refute this in light of the fact that she has destroyed their son and grandchildren.)

With this in mind, I called my brother today and asked him how mom and dad would react if they were here today. His response sobered me: "How would they react? Don't you know? They would be suffering terribly--suffering from her betrayal of our family and suffering watching you prolong the suffering. Leave her, they would have said, leave her. Find a good woman. Leave her, grieve, and move on with your life."

Now, my parents were of a very different generation. Very opposed to divorce on principle--if only for the same of the children. But this was always superseded by one of my mom's many mantras: "If someone doesn't want me, I don't want them."

And that's that. A hundred books on relationships couldn't express it better.

So now I have added my parents' voices to the chorus in my head; they are helping me through this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Nevertheless of course I was torn up after the call, but this morning I feel better. It seems I recuperate more quickly than I used to.

YES Finally! This is real progress AD and you must build on it. Each day now will bring an additional measure of detachment that will ultimately allow you to break away completely from the bonds that tied you to the past. You are on a *NEW* and exciting journey now. Understand fully that this is a journey you *must* make for you and your kids. Also that there is no going back, only movement forward to a new and rewarding life without stbxWW. You *CAN* do this AD!

PEACE Brother


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have. ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Just poking my head in to cheer you on, AD. I feel like you've really turned a corner, and I am so very relieved that you have. Keep up the 180 and NC.

This is so incredibly hard.
And you are so incredibly strong. Argue all you like, but you ARE strong. You can do this - you ARE doing this. One step at a time.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Hey AD, glad my message about the loss of my Dad encouraged you to talk to your brother:) I think he gave you great advice because your parents would have wanted you to be happy and secure in your life! Isn't it what all good Mom's Dad's want for their kiddos ? My kids are older than your young ones but it is what is most important to me...that they feel safe secure & loved! All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

...and here comes Phase II: anger.

I started to tell my wife of the divorce mediators openings for next week.

She angrily cut me off: "I don't want to talk about this right now. I will call you later."

Click.

(Yes we had to speak on the phone in detail about our son who is seeing his psychologist as I write this.)

I am feeling very upset--actually scared of her reaction I am embarrassed to say.

I am sure she is furious now that she sees I am actually following through after so many empty threats in the last year.

In any case, again, I have a lot of anxiety right now.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

AD - this is excellent. THIS is real progress. You are recognising the progress too - that your recovery time is reducing. This is what it is all about. Keep going- it will keep improving.

And I second NIK's comments - yes it is hard, but you are strong - you ARE doing it.

good man
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

AD - our posts crossed there so the last one refers to what came before.

Now your new post:

You have NOTHING to be scared of. Let her react how she wants. Yes it can cause you grief, but only if you let it. You are on the right path now - just keep going.

Of course she is pissed off that you are following through. But really - what the fuck does she expect? To be able to walk all over you for ever? I don't think so.

Keep it up - we're all behind you.
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

She angrily cut me off: "I don't want to talk about this right now. I will call you later."

Click.


Meh, nothing to worry about. Wash, rinse, repeat, you knew this was going to happen. Expect to get poison and manipulation every time you talk to her or contact her and you will never be surprised.

Just send her an email and tell her the days that the mediator is available. Hell send it in a certified letter as well. Just make sure you relayed the information and document that you gave it to her and you have done your part. If she decides to bail on the mediation then she is leaving you no choice but to go the non-mediation route and you ahve documented that you tried mediation and she refused when it gets to court.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:15 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
lostmommy
Member
Member # 33440
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

It seems I recuperate more quickly than I used to.

This is HUGE. I've been following your threads. Keep up the good work. (((AD)))


Me (BS): 32, Mommy to J: 2 1/2 Divorced: 4/10/13
Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere, and sometimes, in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself

Posts: 485 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: NY
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

(Yes we had to speak on the phone in detail about our son who is seeing his psychologist as I write this.)
Why? You're not allies in this, and you're not coparents; you're parallel parenting, and that does not require in-depth anything. It won't harm your son for your ex to get information directly from the psychologist. In fact, it probably will be better for him, because his father will not be again consumed with the wracking sobs that leave him wondering, "Is Daddy going to kill himself?"

Really, AD, you MUST detach from this woman---your kids' well-being (and custody arrangements!) rely on it.

Your recovery time is improving---but it ain't good, dude.

I really do empathize, and understand how hard it is, especially when a child is hurting. My son experienced a profound and terrifying depression in the fallout of infidelity----and I had to navigate psychiatric waters with him. Did I keep his father informed? Of course. But email and text did the trick. And really? He didn't really give much of a shit. (He was more concerned with deflecting blame from himself and, FAR worse, gathering evidence against me---BEWARE OF THIS.)

Limit your communication. Consider carefully what you tell her. It can all bite you in the ass, AD.

Email only. Carefully constructed and well-considered email.

[This message edited by solus sto at 10:19 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8685 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Wow, she's cycling fast... After angrily hanging up on me after I told her of the mediators openings so we can get started, she just texted me that she made an appointment with her therapist.

I hear the sound of a Hoover....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Threnody
Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Yes, that's exactly what that noise is. You recognized it -- progress! And progress you can be incredibly proud of. I think it took me almost a year to know it for what it was.

You cannot control her reactions. I think you're seeing that more clearly now. Therefore, let go of your fear about it. She's cycling fast, or if not cycling she's building up speed on her manipulations. There's no predicting it in the moment, so don't let it control you. You do what is right for you, what is right for your children. Her actions, reactions, manipulations, and emotional lashing out are under her control. They actually have nothing to do with you. They have everything to do with the frustration of being broken and knowing it. She's aware she's a mess. Let her deal with it. Ignore. Relinquish what you thought was control over it.

I'd encourage you to read Max Ehrmann's "Desiderata." It hangs in front me, right here above my laptop in my office. Even in a normal, non-infidelity related life, I find it a helpful mantra. Pay attention to the last paragraph.

Strive to be happy.


If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve. ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14040 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Dude, you need to start perfecting your eyeroll. Whatever her reactions are, you need to go full-steam ahead with whatever is best for you.

He was more concerned with deflecting blame from himself and, FAR worse, gathering evidence against me---BEWARE OF THIS.

Seriously, watch out for this. She is NOT your friend anymore. The more you detach and pull away, the more crazy she will become. She is NOT going to roll over and play dead. She's going to fight and try to paint you as the bad guy.

You did NOT need to discuss the therapy appointment with her. You need to keep all your discussions to email and text only. Not only does this give you a chance to carefully plan what you are going to say (and erase things that aren't necessary to say), it will help for legal reasons should you need it in the future..

I feel like you keep leaving yourself out in the open for her, leaving yourself vulnerable to her. Please start thinking about protecting yourself. You can't complain that she keeps hurting you if you keep putting yourself in situations that leave you vulnerable to her. Yes, the first time, shame on her. All these subsequent times, shame on you.. I'm sorry to break it to you that she's the enemy now, but SHE'S THE ENEMY NOW.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

And lo and behold, after eight months of unrelenting emotional abuse, SHE has finally made her appearance when she came to get the kids just now.

The sobbing, mascara-smeared, I-don't-want-a-divorce-I-miss-you-i-love-you-please-dont-leave-me, apologetic, snot bubbled WW who hasn't made an appearance since D day last November.

I gave not an inch, just stared at her as she did her thing, and drove off.

Accepting all 2x4s and warnings.



Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

She will swing back to angry very soon. I think what you just saw is the mask, not the real person. She pulls the mask on to manipulate you, nothing more.

When I was able to look at ex and say, "You no longer get to tell me what to do or what to think" was a powerful day for me. I can now laugh at his feet stomping/deflection attempts/running/ guilt trips/ all the things he did to manipulate me in the marriage...and and move on.

See the behavior for what it is. Not what you want it to be.

[This message edited by cmego at 6:17 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4142 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Consistent actions over an extended period of time. What you saw wasn't true remorse. It was guilt, fear, and likely a last ditch effort at manipulation as she likely sees her ability to pull your strings is going away. Do NOT fall for that shit! One episode if sobbing on 8 months...watch how fast evil psycho makes an appearance again. Move forward with the D.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, June 21st (Friday)

She came at you with her pity me please and stop the divorce. When that didn't work her anger came out. Now she is back with how pitiful her life is, but I don't hear her giving up OM anywhere in there. She'll get therapy, big whoop, but she isn't ditching OM. She is just trying different sound bites to see which one will sway you to going back to being her security blanket. Still all about her.

AD, you are getting stronger. You are seeing more of the manipulation. You are trying to reign in your rampant need to hope, and see the reality of your M, and your wife not being committed to you. Keep up the good work.

[This message edited by momentintime at 1:52 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2966 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, June 21st (Friday)

My guess is that she will come to you crying, saying "it's over" (lying, because she will plan to keep him on the side), and try to convince you that she finally understands what she has done (she won't) and that she wants you back. The last part may be a bit of the truth as you are her safety net and she does want you to continue to be that for her.

I win, I win! JK, and sorry for joking. It's not funny how predictable this all is.

Good for you for not giving in. If she wants to change, let her prove it. Tears prove nothing. Actions.

This is all so hard. Take care.


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1471 | Registered: Nov 2010
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 21st (Friday)

AD, so you saw her weepy snot bubbled performance and didn't cave this time.... GOOD FOR YOU! It's all 100% total bullshit AD! They shoud give out Academy Awards for this crap. Now be prepared for her next acting job. It will be most certainly different beacuce "whinny-weepy" didn't work on you. Her next performance could be anger, rage, indifferance or any combination thereof. Just keep doing what you did this last time and you'll be fine dude.

PEACE Brother

ETA: I Ihate Andriod keyboards and refuse to edit spelling misstakes due to them.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have. ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Abbondad, I got the weepy performance 2 times. The 1st time I took him back and proceeded to enter the false R from Hell for 3 years. The 2nd time, I didn't fall for it and have received his blame, wrath, hate and general poopy self for the last 2 years. We have NC at all and that is best for me and my boy. I look out for me and my boy now and when xWH and OWifetress write, comment, demand etc. I cricket them to death. I am much better off for it. This is a possible expectation for your future. Lots of eye rolls and vent posts on SI


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Dad be strong for you kiddos! If she is ever ready to R by her actions, not words, then you decide if you want to try R! But as you know, gently here, if OM hasn't been kicked to the curb, your M doesn't stand a chance for true R! All the best Jamie:)


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Hi, Everyone,

Going through some very tough days. WW is coming at me hard: love, saying that "very soon" she will be able to be everything I need her to be (I.e., give up this guy, restore my trust, build a new relationship, etc.).

I told her "very soon" is not enough and too vague. I am moving forward to our first mediation meeting.

My therapist, in a breach of therapist "etiquette," told me that I do need to divorce her--if only for my own growth, strength, and self empowerment. And that there is no rule that says we can't remarry or get back together at some point after. I don't see that as realistic; if its over, it is over. No way will I go through a complete dismantling of my life and then go back.

But I am a total wreck as the reality is setting in. I feel in shock, incredible anguish.

Please, for the hundredth time for some of you, tell me

I am doing the right thing
I have no choice
I will feel better eventually
My fears are unfounded in reality
I will find happiness, love, and myself again

Thank you as always.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

AD:
You are doing the right thing for you.
You WILL get to a better place. You just have to walk through the flames first in order to get there.

Your gut is continuing to tell you that she's blowing smoke up your ass. Listen to it.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
little turtle
Member
Member # 15584
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Her words are just that. Words. I heard the same song and dance from my XH. Keep moving forward. It will get better.


Failure is success if we learn from it.

Posts: 4166 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: michigan
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Please, for the hundredth time for some of you, tell me

I am doing the right thing

You ARE doing the right thing! AD, what would you tell your son if he was in a relationship like yours? If his wife had spent 2 years cheating on him and disrespecting him? I'm guessing you'd tell him after 2 years it was time to call it a day...he deserved better. Why are you deserving of anything less?


I have no choice

You DO have a choice. Stay and allow a woman who loves herself more then anyone else, to continue to piss all over you. You can stay and be a doormat. Stay and give up every last shred of self respect you have, because you are hanging on waiting for your WIFE to stop SLEEPING WITH ANOTHER MAN and stop SENDING PICS OF HER TITS TO HIM!!! THIS is who you are pining for? THAT is who you are crying for? This is a 2x4 AD....don't be that pathetic! She is a lying ice box. Remember the list you made? Read it every single day! Make a cliffs notes version and keep it in your wallet. Think about who you are crying for every time the tears start to fall!

I will feel better eventually

It will only if you choose to leave the drama train you are on. Stop romanticizing the relationship. Stop living in the emotions and start living in the reality. The reality is the woman you married is not who you thought she was. She is pretty ugly and you deserve better. I spent nearly a year living in the emotions of the affair - the drama of the story. It killed me. I cried nearly every day. A year of my life WASTED! A year of my KIDS life - WASTED! It feels better when you start taking control of the situation and stop being the pawn that she gets to move around. THAT is the reality. You can be strong and in control of this situation, and that starts when you are ready to put your foot down and no longer allow her to yank you around by the balls!

My fears are unfounded in reality

See above. You know what the reality is. Fear staying in THAT reality and not moving towards a future where you are not married to a lying, ice box.

I will find happiness, love, and myself again

You will! Keep seeing your counsellor - she sounds like a keeper! I am a single mom to 4 kids now - there are some very stressful days around here, but I have found such a happiness in just releasting myself from feeling like I have to stick around and make things work. That's not my job. It's not my job to worry about him or any of his stupid choices anymore. Letting go of the control I felt I needed to have over our life together, and realizing that I could use that control over MY life with kids, has make me so much happier! I can be happy again! Some day I can find someone who know how to love and who is willing to love me. And if that doesn't happen, at least I am not living with a liar who would have no problem stabbing me in the back if given the opportunity. I do have bad days now and again -today was one, we met at our son's baseball game and a woman there reminded me of OW and it got the tears. I came home and had a mini breakdown, but I pulled myself out of it by mentally referring to my list. I had to pull myself away from the emotion and get back to the reality.

Words mean NOTHING. Action means EVERYTHING. What are your actions going to say about YOU, AD?

[This message edited by thenon-goddess at 8:15 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)]


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, June 24th (Monday)

AD How are things going? I always worry that you are struggling when you go quiet.
Hope you are feeling your strength, and getting stronger each day.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, June 24th (Monday)

Hi AD,

RYour IC may have stepped out of line with his advice, I do not know, but I do belive that the only way to have a healthy M is to have one where you are willing, and able (financially, emotionally) to walk away when warranted. He is right in that detaching from your WW and your M too her would be a good thing for you. It was when I separated from my W and moved forward with detachment that I was able to be sure I was staying and giving her a chance because I wanted to rather than because I was afraid of the alternative. I learned that I can leave her and the M when she does not protect the M and my feelings.

As to your list:

Are you doing the right thing? Thenon-goddess asks a good question. What would you advise your son or a friend in a similar situation? I would add to that the fact you went to your IC for advice, and that was his advice too.

As for choice, we always have choices. You could rug-sweep, suck it up, and live with your WW and her wayward ways. You could model bad marriage practice to your children. OTOH, as for controlling your WW or causing her to wake up and fly right, you have no choice. You cannot control another. All you can do is make your needs and expectations known, and if they choose to ignore you or only make half attempts you either accept it or move on for a better path. Staying or leaving, which is your path of least regret?

You will feel better eventually if you remove yourself from a toxic relationship. If you stay in a toxic relationship you could eventually feel worse.

Change, different, new can be fearful. Feer is often a sign of where we need to do internal work on ourselves. There is value in leaning into our fears and passing through them as learning experiences as opposed to avoiding them.

Fianlly, what is happiness to you? Who is Abbondad? What steps are you taking and can you take to create happiness and become the person you like? Can you spend more time with friends, or making new friends? Are there hobbies or activities you set aside that you could return to?


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4130 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, June 24th (Monday)

I echo what everyone else said about the reassuring question. Just want to add that my STBX moved out this weekend. A little over 2 years ago I got crushed on dday and thought the world would end. This weekend though, I literally danced around my house once I had the keys. Rick Flair would have been jealous of the "WOOOOOOO's" I let out. I still have some road to travel but I am happy and I KNOW I did the right thing.

So yes, it will be okay and you are doing the right thing. Yes, it sucks while it's going on but the payoff as you get closer to the end is worth it. Truly work on detaching and rediscovering things you like to do. I mean really force yourself to go out and have fun. Go to a museum, go out of state on a day trip. Go out drinking with your brother or out to eat. Once you detach things get SOO much easier. All the drama you are dealing with doesn't go away but it's no longer a ROAR more like an annoying buzz in the background that you know you have to deal with but you also know eventually it will be going away. Your STBXWW will come at you with the same stupid shit and you will be able to stare her in the face let her finish and then walk away and not be phased.

If we made it out so can you. Your IC has the right idea as well. I was able to walk away with no regrets. Well one regret, I wish I had done it sooner. Heal yourself and the rest works itself out.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

AD How are things going? I always worry that you are struggling when you go quiet.
Hope you are feeling your strength

Wow, Tushnurse, you really know me and my patterns! ;-)

You are correct. I have been struggling and figure I have nothing new to add for now--though I have been lurking and reading (and rereading) everyone's posts. Thanks so much to everyone for maintaining interest in me and taking time with such long and encouraging responses.

I am pretty down. Mediation is next week. The WW's hoovering continues unabated: love bombing me, reminiscing, speaking of us in future terms (let's paint our daughters bedroom, lets get a new puppy for Xmas, what do think of going to Costa Rica....)

It's just surreal. No action from her whatsoever in terms of dumping the OM and committing to us. I assume her words are simply designed to make me shelve the divorce and continue the cake-eating--which is not surprising, since it has worked so many times before.

It also has occurred to me that she is so deluded that she actually believes that after the divorce these things WILL happen (trips, Xmas as a family....).

In any case, this all has made me deeply sad and shocked anew--that she will actually throw her family away for good, and for what? A fantasy. An escape from reality, a reality that she will find herself in, unequipped to deal with without me.

Anyway, enough about her, right? I am trying the best I can. I try to stay out of the house, hang out with some casual friends, prepare for returning to teaching in August.

And of course the kids. They are not doing too well. My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine, as opposed to my son, who is wrecked up over our separation and impending divorce. But now (she is six) she is becoming very clingy to me and to her brother.

When she is with me, she wants mommy; when she is with mommy, she asks for me. And she is totally unruly when staying with my wife. And my wife simply cannot handle her without me.

Again, I am doing my very best to be strong with them. I no longer cry in front of them; they are sleeping in their own beds. (Well, my daughter needs me to lie next to her until she falls asleep, then she sneaks into my bed while I am sleeping ;-)

We have a very large house and three dogs, so it's constant work to maintain it alone. My wife always did the laundry, so I tend to break down while doing it, so it usually just piles up.

It is just really tough to be a single dad. I

We will eventually have to sell the house and there are no inexpensive places in their school district. Our kids' world has always been this street, this home, our dream home, with all their friends and their school, which they love. To give this all up is devastating to me, and mind boggling that my wife would choose a fantasy bubble over their children's safe world.

Oh, and she suddenly lost her six figure job and is unemployed. I don't know how this will affect spousal support or CS. I have the sinking feeling she will want to live in the house, whereas before it was a given that I would remain in the house and she would maintain her apartment. There is no way I am moving out.

So everything is (or so it feels) coming down like an avalanche. I know I have to shift my attitude to seeing it as a more positive metaphor, but for now I just can't.

I pay close attention to the posts that have happy endings--not ending in R, but survival and the renewal of life and contentment without one's spouse. But for now it's not resonating. I want to feel anger, but it's not there. I want to feel indifference, but that's nowhere near me at this point.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad. That's where I am. I guess the good stuff will come later. But it's hard, so hard.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

You are doing well AD, She is running through her playbook trying to hit on anything that will allow her to have the upper hand.
Dont let it happen.

Keep strong, keep forging forward. She "lost" her job? Really? Or is she just saying that to get what she wants again. If she did loose her job then it's up to her and no one else for her to find another one. She obviously is a successful professional making the salary you have indicated, so it may take a bit for her to get one. I would recommend cutting her off financially. No funds for her at this time.

If the Laundry is a trigger, it's time for you to make it a family event. My kids started doing their own laundry around your kids age. I went on Mommy strike because one would wear 6-8 outfits a day, and the other would hoard is dirty stuff until he had nothing, and bring it down in a mountain and need it 15 minutes ago. Teach them how to separate, use the machines, and how to fold. This takes some of the burden off of you, and allows them to feel like big kids, if they do a good job they get some $$.

My kids are now 16, and 14 and I can honestly say that I rarely have to do their laundry. They will even help out and do ours during the summer.

Keep loving on your kids, let them know that you are dad's priority, and you are always there for them. If mom doesn't earn their respect she can expect them to be bad, and quite honestly she wants everything handed to her at this point. They are going to give her hell when they are with her, this could really roll your way, she will want them less and less, giving you more time with them, and allowing you to build your bonds, and new family unit.

You can do this, You are doing the right thing, Do Not engage her in any of her fantasy rants. Acknowledge that the last 2 years of how you percieve your marriage is also a fantasy, and that it is gone. Work to how you want the future to look with you and the kids.

((((and strength)))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

The job loss is worrisome to me, too. What on earth happened there? And is her hoovering related to her financial woes? Did she quit her job to avoid child support?

Hope you're protecting your finances from her.

[This message edited by sudra at 10:17 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)]


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1471 | Registered: Nov 2010
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

The WW's hoovering continues unabated: love bombing me, reminiscing, speaking of us in future terms (let's paint our daughters bedroom, lets get a new puppy for Xmas, what do think of going to Costa Rica....)

My STBX did this shit too except I fell for it and ending up in false R for a year before the shit hit the fan again.

It's just surreal. No action from her whatsoever in terms of dumping the OM and committing to us. I assume her words are simply designed to make me shelve the divorce and continue the cake-eating--which is not surprising, since it has worked so many times before.
I keep saying don't pay attention to her words because honestly you can't even begin to understand crazy. What is gogin on inside her head is for her and her alone to figure out. Anytime you engage or listen you get pulled kicking and screaming into the madness with her. She may actually believe the stuff she is saying but as you see OM is still in the picture. It does not add up, it does not compute, so don't even try to figure it out. Until she wants to get completely healthy by herself you will never be safe around her. You can't even help her to get the help. You can only help yourself. When you engage her it fuels her delusion whether she realizes it or not. I got to the point where I finally udnerstood that no matter how much I talked to my STBX, she could never truly comprehend what I was saying. SO I just kept getting hurt until I broke the cycle.

It also has occurred to me that she is so deluded that she actually believes that after the divorce these things WILL happen (trips, Xmas as a family....).
This is likely true. Everything would be just fine if AD would just get back in place and ignore OM on the side. The problem is it's all in the open now so it cant' go back to beign the same. The old M is dead. Heck even the old A for her is dead. It's not the same once the BS knows and is sitting in front of a WS everyday pissed off, breaking down, or 180ing them. Hard to rugsweep and play happy family then.

In any case, this all has made me deeply sad and shocked anew--that she will actually throw her family away for good, and for what? A fantasy. An escape from reality, a reality that she will find herself in, unequipped to deal with without me.
She threw away the family and the M when she broke the rules and had the A. Don't be surpised if she thrives by herself. They aren't frail, dainty little flowers that can't survive on their own. She survived during the A and she will be okay after the D. If she is unequipped for it then that's on her. You need to make sure YOU are equipped to handle things post D.

Anyway, enough about her, right? I am trying the best I can. I try to stay out of the house, hang out with some casual friends, prepare for returning to teaching in August.
Keep it up! force yoruself to go out and do something. This will help you greatly.


And of course the kids. They are not doing too well. My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine, as opposed to my son, who is wrecked up over our separation and impending divorce. But now (she is six) she is becoming very clingy to me and to her brother.

I just enetered this realm myself. STBX moved out over the weekend and the kids are with ehr this week. It's still early for me but I truly believe the fact that both of us kept our shit together when telling them helped. They cried and had breakdowns but we answered all the questions they had and kept telling them it will be okay and we still loved them. Am i pissed off about the situation sure but they see the same Dad confidently telling them it will be okay, it's okay to cry, they can ask me any questions they want, and I will alwaws love them. So far they "seem" okay but I think that's because they see that there parents are okay. Stay strong for yrou kids and your kids will be strong. Work through the questions and issues with them as best you can and if they need therapy get it for them.

And my wife simply cannot handle her without me.
I was the "heavy" in my household as well. My stbx is having to learn to deal with the kids on her own as well. Her decisions come with consequences.

Again, I am doing my very best to be strong with them.
keep thsi up and they will be okay. Seeing a strong confident Dad will help them.


We have a very large house and three dogs, so it's constant work to maintain it alone. My wife always did the laundry, so I tend to break down while doing it, so it usually just piles up.

Yeah I am having to adjust to this as well. I tried to start before STBX moved out but it's still a lot. Don't have a choice though do we. I have a routine down for myself that I stick to. I also plan on giving the kids age appropriate chores as well. Will my plan work who knows but if not I will try again until i find one that does.

It is just really tough to be a single dad.
Yeah but once you detach it gets better. At least for me it did. You will be fine.

We will eventually have to sell the house and there are no inexpensive places in their school district. Our kids' world has always been this street, this home, our dream home, with all their friends and their school, which they love. To give this all up is devastating to me, and mind boggling that my wife would choose a fantasy bubble over their children's safe world.
No other way to put this but Shit happens to everyone. It just happened that our shit was impending D and the associated shitstorm that comes with it. You deal with it as best you can and move forward in a ways that beneifts you and your kids. If the schools are important then maybe find an apartment in the area or rent a house. There are always options, you just have to start thinking about them and looking for them.

Oh, and she suddenly lost her six figure job and is unemployed. I don't know how this will affect spousal support or CS.
Talk to your L about this and make sure you knwo exactly when she lost her job. Just because she quit or got fired does not mean you should agree to pay CS fund her forever. Your L can tell you what your state guidelines are but CS isnt' determined based on what your last paycheck was. It typically goes back in time looking at yoru earnings. she will have to get another job. Nothing is stopping her from working. that may be why she is comgin at you really hard right now because she doesnt' have a job. Repeat this with me "NOT MY PROBLEM, SHE CAN GO GET ANOTHER JOB!"

I have the sinking feeling she will want to live in the house, whereas before it was a given that I would remain in the house and she would maintain her apartment. There is no way I am moving out.
FUCK THAT SHIT indeed! Talk to and listen to your L. Don't get sucked into her moving back in and you moving out and paying for everything in mediation. This is how it starts. She has the grease in the hand behind her back and is hoping you will bend over. She fucked up make sure you don't end up paying financially for years while she sits on her ass collecting your checks. Do what's best for you and yrou children just be aware that she is going to try to look out only for herself at your expense. The being nice is buttering you up for something either mediation or trying to come back home because she lost her job.

So everything is (or so it feels) coming down like an avalanche. I know I have to shift my attitude to seeing it as a more positive metaphor, but for now I just can't.
This is your reality so it's okay to see it however you want. Just realize you don't have to STAND in FRONT of the avalanche. keep detaching. That's how you learn to sidestep and watch the avalanche roll down the hill. There will be more stuff to come but you just learn to deal with it as you keep moving forward. keep detaching.

But for now it's not resonating. I want to feel anger, but it's not there. I want to feel indifference, but that's nowhere near me at this point.
I don't know if you analyze things a lot but I did. I think you do as well and I dissected every action my STBX took for a long time alogn with my actions and responses. Eventually I stopped and just handled whatever came my way at that particular time. I dealt with each event as it's own entity.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad. That's where I am. I guess the good stuff will come later. But it's hard, so hard.
Just keep doing what you are doing, go out and try to build your own life when the kids aren't with you and keep detaching from your STBX. The good does come and it creeps up on you. I didn't think it would either but it did for me so keep at it.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

Hi Abbondad,

Check with your attorney on her job loss. Many times it is not just what the x-spouse is making, but their income potential that factors into support.

Find ways to embrace the household chores. For example, I love folding laundry as it gives me an excuse to watch Dangerous Catch or a game on TV while I do it. This makes doing the laundry not so bad as it is more baskets for later. Clearing spider webs can be fun too with a nerf ball or nerf rocket gun.

Your kids will sort things out, just be there for them when they are with you. There was always a very different dynamic with the kids and me versus the kids and FWW. During this period of change and unrest, build as much structure into their lives as you can. Things that are reliable and consistent.

This is also a time to involve them in helping out. Setting tables, cleaning up after meals, etc. It may take more time with them helping, but it is time spent together.

If you are really new to domestic chores, look at some of the books out there like Sidetracked Home Executives and The Lost Art of House Cleaning for ideas to organize your housework and make it more efficient.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad.

This is the good stuff, trust me. Don't look for the happiness in the future, it is all around you. Yes your WW betrayed you, yes she is stuck in her fantasy world, yes she lost her job, yes you may have to sell the house and change schools, yes laundry is never ending, ... What are the positives? For example, you write:

And of course the kids. They are not doing too well.

immeadiately followed with

My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine,...

In what ways is she faring fine? What positives can you identify?

Where do you want to be financially, emotionally, socially by Christmas this year? What steps can you take to move in that direction? Where do you want to be 1 year from today?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:22 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4130 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)

Thanks, Everyone.

Yes, the job loss is real. Not sure what happened. Not good for the family in any case, at least in the short term. We still have to pay the bills.

She wanted to know why I made the mediation appointment for next week:

"I thought we were still talking about this."

I said (gently, not angrily), "We have talked enough. For a long time."

And we have. I know you guys are gonna flay me for this, but the other night we talked for hours. All very well and good--I don't really regret it. And it didn't suck me back in.

But in any case, it amounted to more of the same "talk" we have had for eight months, consisting of different ways of blame shifting, marriage rewriting... No actions, and of course zero remorse.

Onward.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Thank you, Tushnurse, 7rys, atsenaotie, and everyone.

Mediation is Tuesday and I'm starting to freak out. I have been preparing my ideas/needs for the Marital Settlement Agreement. Crunching numbers, living arrangements, etc., all with the children in mind.

It feels so overwhelming, even though we don't have a complicated financial situation, and no debt, thank god.

Again it is essential that the children at least remain in the same school district until high school if not stay in our home. That would be ideal. Moving the kids to a new school would just be too much for them on top of their parents divorcing. You may express that they will adjust, but I know them; they will not.

Moving to a less expensive home in the school district just can't be done. All the homes are at least as expensive as ours. And there are no rentals.

I am just so angry. I am past trying to figure or out or "fix" her. But I am angry, utterly emotionally exhausted, and terribly anxious. (Yes, I am on meds. Don't know how much worse I'd be without them, but it doesn't feel like they are helping.)

Like all of you felt, I am just shocked anew every day that this has happened. I had such a wonderful intact family life growing up, and all I ever wanted was to provide this for my family. To have this dream abruptly destroyed is devastating.

I know I am repeating myself in much of this and restating the obvious, but rather than screaming it, I am posting.

Thanks....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Repeating it over and over is normal. When I did that it wasn't far after that I truly started detaching. Come here and vent it as much as you need. Typing it out helps along with typing out what you need to do even if you aren't truly ready. The process of putting it down helps.

Freaking out leading up to the mediation meeting is normal as well at least it was for me. There was anxiety and nervousness anytime I was getting ready to take a next step in the process.

My only advice is to just power through it. It has to be done. Once you go through the first big step you know what to expect. I knew I would be anxious but afterwards I would be okay so I could better manage my anxiety leading up to future important steps.

Just remember that this is a business negotiation and try your best to leave emotion out of it. Listen to your lawyer. Good luck in the mediation!

ETA: As for the extended conversation, NC is best but I did the same thing. As you continue to detach, all it does is reinforce that nothing has changed. Eventually you won't even want to have those conversations.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:44 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I ask this gently because I know it won't make you happy....but how old are your kids? And you are hoping to stay in the same house until they are in high school? While getting ready to mediate a divorce? With a wife who now has no job?

Financially is this do-able?


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Really moving the kids will undo them? Maybe take a step back and think on this one. Perhaps a new school where they aren't known as the emotionally destroyed family. They are just the new kids that live with their dad most of the time. Those kids don't know that those kids family is a mess, I heard from my mom that their mom was living with her boyfriend whil married.

Just saying, fear of the unknown is controlling your thoughts again. If you don't think your meds are helping you may need to try something differnt. Hell some antidepressents can cause increased anxiety in some people. Its ok to be sad it's ok to grieve, but its time to start healing too, and the anger will help you with that. Embrace it. It's ok to be pissed that she single handedly destroyed what you envisioned your future to be. Embrace the fact that you can and will have a great future without her. She made her choice, she doesn't get to make your choices too. The best revenge is living happy. Really it is.

Again, no 2x4's here, but really try to detach, kids and finances only.

No she doesn't get to come home since she is unemployed, no she doesn't get more time with the kids because she doesn't have to work. No you don't help her out financially because she messed around, and lost her job. That is on her, and it's her responsibility to get her ass back to work. She had a high paying job it sounds like, so she may have to suck it up, and take something lower paying just to be able to afford her little apartment, whatever that is not your worry. She is capable of being gainfully employed. You can't fix her, you can't get her a job, that is all on her.

(((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

One of the sad realities of D is that the kids have two parents. They are a product of both parents, and for better and worse, they adopt the charachteristics of boath parents. You cannot insulate your children from the influences (negative oer positive) of your WW's behaviors and lifestyle.

It sounds like the house, neighborhood and school district are a two income family kind of place. If your WW is going to be unemployed, under employed or unreliable, then it does not matter what the kids can or cannot tolerate, reality must be faced.

As you head to D you must prepare to give up some control of your children. She will treat them in ways you feel are inappropriate, her concerns for the children will not match yours, her priorities will differ.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4130 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
justabrokendream
Member
Member # 3075
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

At the time my now ex-H chose to have an affair and we divorced, my son was going to a great private school. I had to pull him out and put him in the local public school.

Sometimes life changes - you either adapt or spend valuable time ruminating on what might have been....

Your anxiety of course, rubs off on the children, which does them no good.


Posts: 304 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: CA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My WW is Hoovering/love bombing me through texts: old poems I wrote to her, our dating profiles (we met online) calling me "sweetheart," "I'm struggling to let you go," "You've always been a guide to me..."

Throwing everything she's got as the eleventh hour approaches.

I am not completely melting like I used to, but if she wanted to make me break down into tears, mission accomplished.

Mediation is still on. No words of remorse, no action.

But please, support. It is so damn hard.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

just power through it.

Don't respond to any of these love-bombs. Read them if you must. They'll hurt. And eventually she'll circle back around to being the *victim*.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

((AD))

Hang in there. By your fingernails if you have to.

old poems I wrote to her, our dating profiles (we met online) calling me "sweetheart," "I'm struggling to let you go," "You've always been a guide to me..."

And she is probably texting the OM in between her hoovering.

See her for who she is. Not was. IS. Not what you want her to be. Not says she will be. Is.

You can do it. Even if it is in minute by minute increments.

Sending strength.

[This message edited by redrock at 8:39 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3156 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

just power through it

Thank you. I am, but for the millionth time, what is wrong with these people? Why the script? Why so predictable? Why are we so different? Why do otherwise intelligent people (and my wife is) fail utterly to see the obvious that is so transparent to everyone else?

Is the human brain just that capable of self-delusion on such a grand scale? Rhetorical questions ultimately. But I guess I am not seeing the forest for the trees. Occams Razor, right? Simple: they are selfish.

So depressing. What a waste.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time.

Many of us had to do exactly what you are facing. Pulling kids out of schools, moving, starting a new life.

At first, totally overwhelming. Then, I just broke it down and focused on one part at a time. Just one. Not the whole elephant...just an ear. Then I found I could manage.

Many of us also listened to "those words" and did months of false R. I did too, so desperate to not lose that life, that I listened to the words until I could no longer ignore the actions.

I'm 3 years out from d-day and my kids are thriving. In a house a 1/4 of the size of the old one, with a new school and new friends. My life is 180 degrees different than it used to be. I survived and now thriving and learned to at the ex.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4142 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

And she is probably texting the OM

Remembering ^^^^THIS is the MOST effective way to chase away the doldrums that you feel from her sappy texts.

Contact w/ OM + sappy texts to you = cruel and insincere WW.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I may get some kickback here but I am damn sure that everything in our lives happens for a reason The suffering that you are enduring has to be leading you to bigger and better things. Quit harping on the waste. Embrace the possibilities of your future. Think on the happiness you will have without the drama.

She is NO LONGER YOUR PROBLEM. You gave her more opportunities than is even slightly reasonable. Take heart that you did your best. But the rest was up to her and as the serenity prayer states. May God help you to change the things you can, accept the things you can't and to know the difference.

((( and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Helping your children adapt to a new school will be a challenge.

Since there's no way to "preserve" their life, teach them by example to take on the new challenge with gusto.

Have them write down what they want most about school, and then set out to find an area that will meet those most important needs and opportunities for them - perhaps you will find some things they can't do right now, that they would be able to do by moving. Find it - don't look for the sadness or loss. Look for the opportunities and benefits. You will teach your children by example to find ways to be resilient.


Posts: 150 | Registered: Feb 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

Hi,

I need to say something here that I just wrote in my journal, after an awful dream I had of my WW.

It is extremely simple, very obvious to all of you caring, wise people who came to the same realization of your spouses (at least those of you who divorced).

But it is extraordinarily painful for me to admit and finally accept. It will be my mantra for a long long time--during and after the divorce.

I have denied and denied these two realities all the way up to this morning, as hope always lurked beneath my most angry, strident, and blustery postings. (So many of you picked up on this, but I would not listen, I am ashamed to say.)

Just writing it fills me with searing pain and hot tears, even though it has been staring me in the face for so very long and you all have taken such great pains to tell me this in so many different ways. But I think I have finally come to a place of acceptance of this:

My wife is not a good person and my wife does not love me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Bluebird26
Member
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

Abbondad that is a great step forward for yourself that you can now see that. This will help you detach from her, once you do I promise it will hurt less then it does now.

Best of luck to you and your children.


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1333 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

AD, please keep those two realizations in your mind and heart during the mediation and divorce proceedings. They will keep you strong and help you protect yourself and your children. Good luck!


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

NOW - Tack on to that, You are a great man, You deserve much more.
You arein a tough spot now, but you are no longer a victim. The world is wide open before you with limitless opportunities.
Do what makes you happy.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

NOW - Tack on to that, You are a great man, You deserve much more.
You arein a tough spot now, but you are no longer a victim. The world is wide open before you with limitless opportunities.
Do what makes you happy.

^^^^^^THIS!!!! When you see the reality of who your WS really is versus who you thought they were it sinks in and it keep sinking in. The part you have you to remember is what tushnurse said. You deserve more than she can give you. So when you say my W is not a good person follow it up with I deserve to be happy and I am responsible for my own happiness so I will move forward to find that happiness no matter what stands in front of me.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

My wife is not a good person and my wife does not love me.

I'd go with:
I am a good person and my wife does not love me. Focus on you!

My WW is Hoovering/love bombing me through texts: old poems I wrote to her, our dating profiles (we met online) calling me "sweetheart," "I'm struggling to let you go," "You've always been a guide to me..."

New trick for you to try:
1. Read up on the Karpman Drama Triangle.
Victim>Persecutor>Rescuer
2. Don't read her love bombs. Delete them. (However, knowing Abbondad, if you insist on reading them, don't use your normal "inner" voice. Raise your pitch into a witch's cackle or some such outrageous voice, then read with a dramatic flair.
3. At the end of each love bomb, identify her role:
Victim>Persecutor>Rescuer


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

You are 100% totally right. Your wife is NOT a good person and she does not love you. That''s a great beginning, but it''s not the whole story. It''s not even the end of this chapter.

Your wife is NOT a good person and she does not love you.
YOU are a person worth love.
YOU are a person who honors his vows.
YOU are a person who cares for his children.
YOU are a person who is responsible and mature.
YOU are a person with a whole life in front of him.
YOU are a person who will fill that life with love, honor, caring, and goodness.
YOU are a person that your children can depend upon.
YOU are THE person that your children will remember as being their true parent.
YOU are a person who will thrive maybe not tomorrow or the next day, but you WILL thrive.
YOU are a man. A true man.

So start writing that next chapter. You simply cannot fail. You have a backup of thousands here. We all see your worth. One day soon, you will too.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4804 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Dad, first of all huge props for where this journey is taking you, feel like you are really getting it! Secondly I know you don't want to move your kids/change schools but it can actually be a positive thing. Due to my Father's job relocations and my Parent's marriage falling apart, I had to change schools 7 times during High School! As difficult as these moves were it absolutely made me in to the no longer shy/scared kid I was when I started High School:) There can be positives to starting over somewhere new, just food for thought. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Dad, first of all huge props for where this journey is taking you, feel like you are really getting it! Secondly I know you don't want to move your kids/change schools but it can actually be a positive thing. Due to my Father's job relocations and my Parent's marriage falling apart, I had to change schools 7 times during High School! As difficult as these moves were it absolutely made me in to the no longer shy/scared kid I was when I started High School:) There can be positives to starting over somewhere new, just food for thought. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

((((AD))))

I'm glad to read that those realizations are sinking in...but, also sorry because I know how much they hurt.

It hurts because we deserve(d) better. It hurts because we invested ourselves in someone who would/could never fully invest themselves in us. It hurts because it means letting go of the fantasy we had. But, right after a quick cry, we can get back to remembering that we are only losing a fantasy...an illusion. Get back to remembering that we deserve better and that we can be happy some day. Don't spend too much time in the pain. It is good to serve as a reminder of why we need to keep moving forward, but don't get stuck there.

Oh, and what skan said x1000

[This message edited by thenon-goddess at 10:29 PM, June 27th (Thursday)]


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, June 28th (Friday)

Good morning friends,

A mixed bag in my "daily report."

(BTW, has anyone considered Skype group meetings? Has anyone here ever met IRL?)

Last night was good. I'd purchased a ton of fireworks for July 4th and had a bunch of neighborhood kids over for a "pre show." It was fun and I got my mind off things for a bit.

My wife texted to say goodnight to the kids, and then proceeded to give me instructions about how to dress them this morning for camp, telling me where in "our bedroom" certain items where. And on and on as though she lived there and was my wife. I politely thanked her and turned off. It was hard, but A successful 180 baby step.

But then this morning as I rummaged in our closet for their things, I discovered that although she'd left a lot of her clothes, she'd taken all her lingerie and sex toys.

So that hurt for a while. I became angry, cried a little, and snapped at the kids. But I recuperated quickly (for me), got the kids to camp, and apologized to them for my behavior. Told them how much I love them and they went off happily.

Growing anxiety over the upcoming mediation. Ashamed to admit it, but I'm scared of the inevitable--that once our relationship turns to business and she hears the word "no" and is presented with any boundary, she will turn ugly. But I guess that will help me if I will it--reminding me how unloving and selfish she truly is.

Thanks...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, June 28th (Friday)

I discovered that although she'd left a lot of her clothes,

Just a suggestion and you may or may not be ready but you should box/hefty bag all her remaining stuff she has in the house. It's all reminders and potential triggers. Empty all the dresser drawers, the closets, take down pictures, everything and place it all in the garage or one room of the house. I wouldn't recommend chucking the stuff just yet since you are going to mediation but in the mediation meeting you can set up a time for her to come get the remainder of her stuff out of YOUR house.

I let the kids keep a picture of us in their rooms if they want but all things with sentimental value tied to the M are boxed up and either she took it or I am keeping it in the garage in case the kids want it when they are older.

Taking back control of your space is empowering and helps with the moving on process. My house looks sterile right now but I see a blank canvas that I can do with as I please when I am ready and all the pictures and reminders are gone.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, June 28th (Friday)

that once our relationship turns to business and she hears the word "no" and is presented with any boundary, she will turn ugly.
I would contend, Abbondad, that she "turned ugly" ages ago. I can't think of many things uglier than lying, selfishness, cheating, and abandonment. The concern then is that she will stop pretending to be nice. And I will tell you based on my experiences, that when that nice mask comes off and her words and actions start matching the ugliness she's been trying to hide, the truth of who she has become will absolutely set you free.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, June 28th (Friday)

^^^^So true, excellent post^^^^

How do you think it can get much worse?


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Hi AD...Its been awhile since Ive checked on you..you seem to be doing really well...stay strong...one step at a time.


(((((AD)))))


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Red  Posted: 1:50 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Abbondad -

(BTW, has anyone considered Skype group meetings? Has anyone here ever met IRL?)

SI is for online anonymous support. We do not offer or encourage skype or IRL support.

We do have fun g2gs from time to time. They are listed in F&G.


Posts: 35176 | Registered: Mar 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Thank you. I have not checked that forum.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
143ANF
Member
Member # 22730
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, June 28th (Friday)

You''re doing great

If you should need to relocate, your children may not like it in the beginning but they will adapt.

My daughter was bounced around quite a bit, being a Navy brat and all, so she had her fair share of being the "new kid" at school, neighborhood, etc.

She''s now 21 and a confident, outgoing young woman who isn''t afraid to speak up.


I've gotten off the crazy train and I'm loving living life.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Florida
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Thank you everyone,

Had a really good IC session. No cap and gown yet, but I am as ready as I ever will be to move through this process toward my new life.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Good to hear, (((hugs))) to you and your kiddos! All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
hopeandchange
Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Maybe she'll send him another pic of her breasts.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 405 | Registered: Sep 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, June 29th (Saturday)

Hi,

As the eleventh hour approaches (mediation begins Tuesday), my wife wants to "talk" about whether "it could work between us."

"If you have closed your mind," she says, "then I am prepared to go in another direction."

I assume this means she will marry or move in with the POS. This is just another way of saying, "You are still just a choice."

No remorse. No responsibility. No way.

And I have had my clarity over the last forty eight hours. Finally. Even if she did do everything--which she is far from able or willing to do or sustain, since she utterly lacks empathy--I no longer want her back.

I have


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, June 29th (Saturday)

Hi,

As the eleventh hour approaches (mediation begins Tuesday), my wife wants to "talk" about whether "it could work between us."

"If you have closed your mind," she says, "then I am prepared to go in another direction."

I assume this means she will marry or move in with the POS. This is just another way of saying, "You are still just a choice."

No remorse. No responsibility. No way.

And I have had my clarity over the last forty eight hours. Finally. Even if she did do everything--which she is far from able or willing to do or sustain, since she utterly lacks empathy--I no longer want her back.

I have a very clear vision of my life with her and I don't want it. I will never trust her again. Never. And that's the least of it. She simply doesn't understand the depth of destruction she has caused. And probably never will. It's all still about her.

There was nothing in what she said that indicates she "is considering being with me" (in other words, taking ME back!) out of love. Just fear. Just security.

No way. I'm way past done.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

Hi, Everyone,

Again, I am as ready as I can be to go through the divorce.

I have the feeling my wife is going to move in with or marry the POS.

This will be my next difficult emotional hurdle, for it is inevitable that I will finally meet or have some contact with the man who set out to and succeeded in destroying my family.

I know you will tell me that he is irrelevant. That it is all on my wife, if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else... I get that--intellectually. But emotionally, I am nowhere near acceptance.

For those in this situation, how do you deal with this? Seeing him, possibly interacting with him, knowing your kids are with him and he is doing his best to woo them, etc.

In actual situations, how do you act? I resolve to "take it like a man"--cold but cordial for the sake of my children and to remain on good terms with my wife. That "fake til you make it" approach.

Does it get easier in time?

I am just dreading it.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

Yes AD, it does get easier. Look how far you have come from your first posts...you have already conquered things you didn't think you would be able to. You will manage this one too.

Some here are now "friendly" with the OM/OW because of the kids. Others, the boundaries are still, and will always be, HUGE. They don't communicate with the OP at all. It all depends on the situation, and how things play out. It depends on the BW, AND on the other people in the situation.

In my situation, I got "lucky" that he dumped the OW before he could introduce her to the kids, so I didn't have to deal with it with her. But my boundary was firmly in place. my XH knew that I would NEVER accept her being in my kids lives, that I thought she was a whore and scum. She would never be allowed on my property, and I had better not ever hear about her doing something to my children. I saw red every time I just thought about her.

He has now been dating a woman for about 2? Years now. I have nothing against her, could care less about her. I know she doesn't do anything to hurt my kids, I also know my kids are indifferent to her and her kids. If she were to disappear tomorrow, my kids would shrug. Anytime we have ended up in the same space, she avoids me like the plague. One time at the end of an event I ended up within 1 foot of her trying to get a good pic of my son. She turned, saw me, and RAN! She is friends with XH's sister, and I have told her to let her know that she doesn't have to worry about me. I really have no desire to befriend her, but I can be in the same space without her having to think I'm going to lose it on her. Heck, I have to stiffle the urge to go up to her and tell her she's nuts...get away from him! You should hear the way he talks about you and your kids! RUN! But I stay silent. Not my place.

Just keep going AD. You will make it through.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5485 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

Don't look at OM as the destroyer of your marriage, your stbx did a pretty bang up job all by herself.

As to meeting and interacting with the AP during kid exchange times...
My ex-shat moved in with his stripper whore and OC. Stripper whore is my son's primary caretaker EOW. Teslet looks at her as a glorified babysitter...nothing more. She is the one with him when I pick him up. The second time this happened, I introduced myself. We don't talk otherwise. I don't look at her because she's not my focus and honestly I couldn't give a shit about her broken ass self. My focus is on my Teslet...getting him in the car and having a conversation with him.
When ex-shat is there, I never speak to him either. I don't see the point in faking something with a human being that I have zero respect for.


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4628 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

For those in this situation, how do you deal with this? Seeing him, possibly interacting with him, knowing your kids are with him and he is doing his best to woo them, etc.

If you do what I do, every time the kids leave, you cry and whine and bitch and moan like a toddler throwing a tantrum on the floor, counting the minutes till they come back. The thought of OW/OM with the children is one of the WORST parts of this. Sorry I don't have any great advice there, just sharing my experience.. Unless you suspect any type of abuse, my suggestion is to fill your time with things to do for yourself. For starters, as suggested, box all of her crap up and put it in the garage or whatever. Maybe that's part of the reason you are having so much trouble detaching as you keep seeing her stuff around. Out of sight, out of mind. Get those daily reminders out of your face. You have no idea how much easier it will be to detach when you stop looking at all of it..

Moving the kids to a new school would just be too much for them on top of their parents divorcing. You may express that they will adjust, but I know them; they will not.

Honestly, I think you're projecting a little bit here your feelings and anxiety onto the kids. I know you are having trouble adjusting (and rightfully so), but you MUST show your kids some strength and let them know that even though some changes are coming, everything is going to be just fine. Kids change schools all the time. Kids have to go through changes all the time. Actually, people in general have to deal with change all the time. It's all about how you deal with the change. Yes, you can spend some time bitching about how unfair the situation is, but then you toughen up and do your best to adjust and adapt to the new situation.

I'm sensing a little bit of codependency with your kids here. You cannot control how they feel about everything. You cannot protect them from everything. But you can keep giving them the tools to deal with things themselves.

It's like crying infants who only sleep when someone is cradling them. You have to slowly wean them off that and teach them to self-soothe. Otherwise, when they wake up in the middle of the night, they cry and whine until someone comes in to cradle them again. They have to learn how to put themselves to sleep.

Maybe that was a dumb analogy, but I'm just trying to let you know that kids are resilient, they will learn, they will adjust, and a big part of that is showing them how YOU handle the changes.

You are going to have to share custody now. You aren't always going to be there. You have to give them as many tools as possible to handle things when you are not around.

Big hugs dad. I know this is so very hard.. On a side note about her losing her job, this is one of the reasons I was imploring you to just file the divorce already. I don't pretend to know what she's doing, but maybe she is trying to get out of paying alimony or something. She could be running up credit card debt or wasting all your savings as we speak. You HAVE to protect yourself financially already.

More and more hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

No remorse. No responsibility. No way.

^^^^^

I think you should add this to your tag line in your profile.

You're doing amazingly well all things considered.

I'm guessing OM won't be around to romance her much longer.

She's going to be an unemployed part time single mother when the smoke clears and he may not find that to be as sexy as the unicorn and rainbow fantasy they've been enjoying at your expense.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 9:10 AM, June 30th (Sunday)]


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Hi Everyone,

As the seconds tick down to mediation (my wife actually thought we are getting DIVORCED during our first mediation session), she is coming at me with everything: tears, I can't live without you, I won't be happy, I miss you, I dont want a divorce, I need my family, I've been doing a lot of thinking, on and on...

BUT: no remorse expressed until I solicited it. So it doesnt count. Plus i dont believe it. And I told her so. AND she hasn't given up the POS!

WTF? If she were truly serious about reconciliation, she would have come to me having ALREADY ended with him, and/or ready to do something dramatic like ending it on speakerphone with me present, right?

She just. Doesn't. Understand. What she has done to me. What this pain feels like.

She begged me to out off mediation and wait until she writes me a letter.

I did not agree to put off mediation.

I am so upset and angry. THIS is what it has taken (if indeed she is serious about R, which she is not since she has not gone NC with the guy)? Dragging me through hell for eight months and sending me to the point of divorce? NOW she wants to reconcile?

I am just beside myself. I just don't believe her. I can't see a future of happiness with her. I can't see her doing the hard work,sustained for probably years--while I live in perpetual fear that when the slightest thing goes wrong, she will betray me again, walking on eggshells, wondering whom she's texting, where she's going, why she hasn't returned, why she's late, whether she's silently comparing me to him, etc. etc.

Support, please.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Abbondad, even if she does end it with OM tomorrow, you STILL shouldn't stop the D. It's all smoke and mirrors. She realizes you are going to do it, and she realizes her stability is going to end. THAT is what she wants back, not you. She might dump him to show you she means business...but she has to show you a WHOLE SLEW of other changes too. Do not stop the D and take her back. She needs to live on her own and show you actions for quite a while before you should even CONSIDER taking her back.

Keep going. You are doing great. You can do this.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5485 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

You have come a long way!

I, too, found it so hard to believe this was happening, but I decided at the beginning that I was not going to have a fake marriage. IF I had let him come back whenever he whined or threw a bit fit with squeeling tires on the driveway, then NOTHING was going to change, and the kids would have to see this over and over.

I am now divorced. That doesn't mean that IF he took it upon himself to break up with OW, get serious mental help, show me something substantial FOR A YEAR, I might think about something with him.

But he's not, and I realized one day, I am and my children are worth me being a whole person w/o all the craziness. I told them early on, that our home was their safe place from the whole world, that I knew they loved their Dad, but he was not going to come around here with all this drama. I had to call the police on him!

So, anyway, you have come so far. Keep your eyes on NOT falling for anything from WW. EVEN if she suddenly goes into counseling tomorrow. Just keep strong.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2120 | Registered: Jan 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

I constantly have to remind myself that my STBX didn't want a divorce. He wanted a wife and a girlfriend.

That's what your wife wants. Her husband and a boyfriend. What does husband do? Help pay for things, take care of the kids, pick up the slack, wake them up in the morning and get them to school, help with the car, help with the packages, figure out the bills, etc., etc.

What does the boyfriend do? Stroke her ego and tell her how awesome her naked breasts look through text.

I'm betting she's freaking because she realizes fantasy boy doesn't want to do everything husband does. He doesn't want that crap, and he hasn't had to for the longest time since you've just been doing it. You are ruining poor widdle wifey's fantasy world.

Screw that Abbondad. This woman has shown zero respect for you. It's all about her wants and her needs. You deserve better.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

AD, I am doubtful of your resolve. I am getting the sense that you are, on some level, putting some thought in to her offer and see it as a possibility that maybe she will finally end things. Mark my words, if you put off the divorce or even give her an inkling that it is a possibility, you've got maybe a month before she's seeing the OM again (if it ever stops) and maybe a couple of weeks of sex and cuddling before she just can't go there anymore (wasn't that her excuse before)? She is a master manipulator, I'm seeing. She realizes her gig is almost up and shes shitting in her pants a little bit. Good! Let her have a taste of reality for a little bit (or a looong bit, preferably). Refer to your list and to your dream - she is not a good person! You deserve better! As far as the POS other man, let him have her. That can be his punishment. What does he get? An unemployed cheater. Failing to see how anything good for him happens there. Their relationship will self destruct and though I can't imagine a marriage ever taking place (from what you've posted about him) I don't think they be celebrating too many anniversaries, if you catch my drift. Carry on, AD. Don't let her press your emotional buttons and manipulate you. It's time for some consequences for the last 2 years of hell.


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Remember the photo that ended up in your son's hands and steel your resolve!

Posts: 150 | Registered: Feb 2013
cjonesjag
Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Stay the course, Abbondad. I'm anxious to see how mediation goes with your WW....and how all the financials are going to pan out, especially now that she is unemployed (child support, custody, visitation).

"I want," "I need," "I can't live without"....it's all SO about her. She must be becoming very frustrated that her bullshit pleas and crocodile tears aren't so effective anymore.

I hope ta hell you can get through mediation and come out with a settlement that gives you financial stability rather than having to pay HER 30% of your income. Not that I don't think you will support your kids in all ways possible, I just don't want that manipulative bitch taking anything more from you.

Keep moving forward. She can always prove "change" to you later.....when you're safely divorced. It would be difficult to reconcile with a person who has recklessly killed the marriage and trampled your soul. Do not tolerate it any longer. Please.

[This message edited by cjonesjag at 7:02 PM, June 30th (Sunday)]


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Oh my god...

Had another crazy conversation with STBXWW (I know, I know) and here is the quote of the year (said angrily): "abbondad, I have NEVER lied to you or betrayed your trust."

Can anyone top that?

Anyway, I am officially detaching emotionally! Yay, finally!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 5:27 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Abb,

You're doing well but I can see that her attempts to sway you may weaken you. I know how difficult that can be.
Listen to everyone here. They've seen it all. They are right. She will say and do anything. Even IF she dumps OM, you should not treat that as a sign of her turning her life around. It's just the start. She needs at least a year to prove that she is no longer possessed.

My STBXWW is throwing all sorts of shit at me and baiting me to act like her. I nearly lowered myself to her level yesterday by not returning the children by 4pm. (I considered that if she can change the visitation rules unilaterally then I can too) My solicitor told me to play the long game and don't jeopardise my clean 'record' of being reasonable and rational. It would just feed her made up anger for me. It will all come out in the wash. Even if STBXWW turned up tonight with a suitcase and two children with tears rolling down her face and told me that OM is gone, I would invite the kids in and then slam the door in her face. I'm gonna get my finances in order, protect myself legally, be there for my children and if she chooses to sort her life out I will talk to her in a year or two.
I think you can see that your STBXWW is trying every trick in the book to get you back in line. Be strong. Message me for support if you want. I'm there for you. We're all here for you.



Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 685 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, July 1st (Monday)

AD - She is clearly pulling all the stops now. She is doing anything, and everything to manipulate you. Stop the insanity of this. She is all talk, and manipulation. She is NO action. Unless you want to count the fact that she is now unemployed.

She is simply afraid that she is going to loose her meal ticket. FTB. Seriously. Step back put it in perspective.

1. She chose to lie, cheat, lie, continue, lie, manipulate, and lie to you.
FTB

2. She has broken your family and caused such emotional upheaval to all of you that you and your kids are all in therapy.
FTB!!

3. She has made your questions your decisions as a man, a provider, a dad, a person.
FTB!!!

4. She continues to attempt to manipulate you, but her actions exhibit ZERO change on her overall behavior.
FTB!!!!

5. At this point she is really no more than a glorified babysitter, and seems to have trouble managing that.
FTB!!!

STICK TO YOUR GUNS. GET OFF THE CRAZYTRAIN!!!
You are getting stronger, and clearer each day. Don't engage her in these insane conversations. The only thing you need to talk with her about are Kids, and Finanaces, anything that strays from that, say "I'm not discussing that with you." If she continues, "Again, I'm not discussing this with you, if you continue I will hang up."

YOU CAN DO THIS!!!


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Not to fear, Tushnurse--I am in the zone and feeling strong.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, July 1st (Monday)

I have a very clear vision of my life with her and I don't want it. I will never trust her again. Never. And that's the least of it. She simply doesn't understand the depth of destruction she has caused. And probably never will. It's all still about her.
^^^^This was the point I was talking about awhile ago. The unknown becomes a welcome option to remaining in your current situation. She will likely never understand what she has done or your perspective. Selfish people are incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves. Keep focusing on you and doing the things you want to do. I know it seems like she is pulling out all the stops right now but this is just more craziness on her part. There are no actions just words. If you have actually told her you need actions not words don't be surprised if she throws you a few crumbs that look like actions but they really won't be. Don't engage her if you can, stop taking her calls, and ignore her texts. Once you actually get into the legal process you may really want to do this as you never know whether she is taping you, trying to set you up, or trying to get you to agree to something you may regret later on.

Nowiknow23 is right here, this is what's coming next:

The concern then is that she will stop pretending to be nice. And I will tell you based on my experiences, that when that nice mask comes off and her words and actions start matching the ugliness she's been trying to hide, the truth of who she has become will absolutely set you free.

Once the mediation starts and she sees you are in fact serious about D prepare for the stupidity to get ratcheted up to 10. Keep your resolve up and just know it's coming. If you haven't get a VAR. What she shows you when she turns will indeed fully set you free but the ride is not fun. However the ride has an end at this point though. It's just a matter of getting there. Best of luck and keep it up man. Vent here and keep detaching and focusing on you and the kids.


I have the feeling my wife is going to move in with or marry the POS.
It's been almost 2 weeks since my STBXW moved out. I assume she will try to get back with her AP and I can honestly tell you I could care less. That's what detachment does for you. Both my STBX and her old AP or future boyfriends, husbands, whatever ARE irrelevant. They no longer affect my life because I have moved on from that part. I have to deal with her because of the kids but me caring about who she is sleeping with no longer bothers me. Before I detached I used to worry about her cheating again. The flaw in that logic was she had already slept with at least 2 other guys while married to me so what was I holding on to??? She was most assuredly going to do it again at some point if we got Divorced and likely if we didn't. However it would no longer be my problem so I kept saying she was already sleeping with other people behind my back so why do I care if she does it in front of my face now. The answer is I don't care because she already showed me who she was and I accepted that. The fantasy Wife and fantasy M I had in my head never existed. I had to face who she really was and I was okay with that. No more expectations, no more fear, no more wondering. I chose to accept the reality fo my situation and move forward in my life. This is who she is and I will deal with her like anyone else in my kids life. I gave up the idea that I could control her or the situation because it was pretty obvious I never actually had control over her in the first place. There is nothing you can do to stop your WW from officially moving in with OM or even marrying him. What you can do though is focus on you and your future and let go of the idea of what YOU think your STBXWW's future should be. Those are her decisions and you can't affect them no more than she can ultimately affect yours once you detach. I know you already know this all just relaying what I learned on my journey.

You ask how she can do thsi stuff, it's because she detached from you long ago. That's why continuing to detach now gives you the ability to start moving on with your life and letting go of your STBXWW and what she does with her life. Keep at it AD! You are doing great!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, July 1st (Monday)

I just left the bank, where we split up our life savings. Our goddamn life savings. She was crying the whole time, in shock. After we left she said, "I don't want this!"

I shouted at her (I couldn't help it): "Just what did you expect!!???"

She said, "If I end it with him, will you take me back?"

??????!!

I said, "We will see what happens a long time after we are divorced."

And then I left.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 1st (Monday)

"If I end it with him, will you take me back?"

In a nutshell brother. Served hot and steaming. Will you please be plan B.

Detachment should be a little easier now.

Kids and finances only. N/C = no new hurts.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, July 1st (Monday)

I do not want her to suffer. It hurts me to see it. I am not punishing her. I am saving myself.

But I am terribly upset, and very angry at her.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 1st (Monday)

She just. Doesn't. Understand. What she has done to me. What this pain feels like.
Dude - She knows. She's seen your pain. She's heard your pain. It has been right in her face for MONTHS. She just doesn't care. But you already know that, right?


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, July 1st (Monday)

"If I end it with him, will you take me back?"

AYFKM???? The correct answer was an eye roll and crickets.

She acts like "being" with him is the only problem. The bigger problems are WHY she is with him, WHY she manipulated and lied to you, WHY she tore apart her family without thinking about the consequences. This manipulating woman really thinks she just has to choose you and everything will be swept under the rug. That's exactly what she is asking you for.

She's not willing to do the first damn step to fixing this marriage (leaving the OM). You really wanna pull teeth trying to get her to do the rest of what it would take to heal the marriage?

I would stop promising her "maybe after the divorce." The best you are going to get "after the divorce" is a civil co-parenting relationship.

FUCK THAT BITCH!!!


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, July 1st (Monday)

I am not punishing her.

She is manipulating you into feeling like you are punishing her. That's how she WANTS you to feel. Stop letting her blame shift and make you feel bad for HER consequences to HER actions.

GET OFF THE CRAZY TRAIN!!


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Well done, AD. Her question is just insulting, IMO, and definitely shows how self centered and clueless she really is.


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 1st (Monday)

"Just what did you expect!!???"

I like this

"We will see what happens a long time after we are divorced."

This not so much. I would have said NO. Obviously if she sorts her shit out then you can change your mind but by saying what you did shows that you are ameniable to the idea.



Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 685 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, July 1st (Monday)

You are getting there. She is continuing to attempt to manipulate. When you do stuff like this, don't do it alone, bring a friend along. Someone to bolster you up. So that you aren't tempted to say we will see, what you should have said was.
HAHAHAHAHAH, and walked away.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 1st (Monday)

AD, you're doing really well. Keep it up.

She acts like "being" with him is the only problem. The bigger problems are WHY she is with him, WHY she manipulated and lied to you, WHY she tore apart her family without thinking about the consequences. This manipulating woman really thinks she just has to choose you and everything will be swept under the rug. That's exactly what she is asking you for.
Butterflygirl nailed it with the above quote. If you take your WW back, you'll be in for an even more hellish ride. Trust me, I know. I kept taking back an unremorseful spouse who spouted off all the right words...and showed no action to back it up. Each time, the betrayal an piss-poor attitude on his part grew worse and worse. It was almost like it became a game to him to see how much he could get away with.
Please dont take 18years to get away from the madness like I did.

Save yourself and your kids NOW.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 10:46 AM, July 1st (Monday)]


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 1st (Monday)

she said, "I don't want this!"

She said, "If I end it with him, will you take me back?"


Oh yeah! Chapter 3, page 45 of the Cheater's Handbook.

I have come to despise those words that your stbxww said to you. Sultan NEVER came back to me unencumbered.....and yet he had the same, exact attitude.

I am very logical and it just made me crazy. That type of crap was one of the main reasons that I was finally able to go NC with him.

Crazy-making. A mind-fuck. A circle jerk. <--a very hurtful one. I ended up telling him "I am divorcing you because you have other women, so how in the fuck do you think it makes ANY sense to ask me to NOT divorce you while you are STILL fucking other women????" It's fucking stupid.

Anyway. Your response to her was great.
Good luck with your mediation. I'll warn you that, emotionally, it's going to suck. Just hang in there.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
JustDone
Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, July 1st (Monday)

You don't listen to any of her words, you watch what she does.

And you are.


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2786 | Registered: Feb 2006
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Love-bomb text barrages continue:

-I went to the store and bought some fruits and vegetables. I will bring you some.

-I am at the library thinking about how you would love these books.

-DS is eating whoppers. I told him Daddy likes those.

-You asked awhile ago if I thought about you. I do, a lot.

I have not responded to any of them--i know they are just selfish manipulations--but they are still upsetting to read.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, July 1st (Monday)

She said, "If I end it with him, will you take me back?"

??????!!

I said, "We will see what happens a long time after we are divorced."


Say it with me, "Nope."

You can also use "No." or "No way."

Let's not give her a scrap of fodder to drag this out. I have a hard time telling people NO, and it gets me into a lot of obligations that I wish I wasn't stuck with.

Next time, just say "no."


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17322 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Saying vs. Doing. Keep it in the forefront of your mind.

Now that her security is being threatened she has soooooooo. much to day....

See it for what it is. Do not respond.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3156 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Hi Everyone,

I am worried about tomorrow morning's mediation. Specifically I know she will drop the sweetness routine and out will come the viciousness.

I don't want to be sucked into it. I want to demand--respectfully and maturely--what I need and deserve to live. She always made in the six figures and has now been offered another job in the same range.

I do not need a lot of money. I am Ok if I have to move to a condo or something. But it's in the best interest of the kids that we stay in our home. And she can afford it all: her own apartment, child support, and some degree of spousal support.

But I don't want to sit there and argue with her. What is the mediators role if she becomes combative or refuses CS or spousal support? I'd much prefer to defer to the mediator--maybe separately, in another room.

I don't want to engage in unpleasantness, but nor will I be bullied.

Any advice is appreciated as always.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, July 1st (Monday)

You CAN request to be separated from her, and the mediator will go back and forth between the two of you.

Honestly, I think you are right on target with wanting to be away from her. It will definitely squash the drama llama level.

Sending you strength for tomorrow.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Wow dad, you have been thru the mill!

As for any meeting, you are in control of yourself. Don't forget that, if she ramps it up like you think she will, calmly say to the mediator that you need a break and you will not sit here and be abused verbally by her. Then get up and walk out to the hall. Check back in a few and if she hasn't changed her behavior, reschedule. Do not be bullied into staying. Don't worry about what the mediator will think, they have seen it all. If this adds to the cost , oh well, she has to have consequences. In the end its just money, and what's more important is the long run and you getting what you need to do right by your kids, and being able to look yourself in the mirror, knowing you did the best you could to not let yourself be run over by her crazy train.

Still cheering for you.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Wow dad, you have been thru the mill!

As for any meeting, you are in control of yourself. Don't forget that, if she ramps it up like you think she will, calmly say to the mediator that you need a break and you will not sit here and be abused verbally by her. Then get up and walk out to the hall. Check back in a few and if she hasn't changed her behavior, reschedule. Do not be bullied into staying. Don't worry about what the mediator will think, they have seen it all. If this adds to the cost , oh well, she has to have consequences. In the end its just money, and what's more important is the long run and you getting what you need to do right by your kids, and being able to look yourself in the mirror, knowing you did the best you could to not let yourself be run over by her crazy train.

Still cheering for you.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Abbondad, do you have a lawyer? It's sounding to me like you don't, and I would definitely recommend getting one to be sure you're getting a fair deal.

You can't "defer" disagreements to the mediator. They are only there to try to get you guys to reach an agreement, and they really don't care if it's fair or not, just if it's legal.

It's legal to waive your right to spousal support, and your STBX can try to bully you into that, and the mediator isn't going to bully back and fight for you. That's what a LAWYER would do for you..

My best advice is to stay calm and act like you are going to get what is fair or you're going to court. If one of you raises your voice or brings up marital issues not related to finances or custody, you want it to be her. Look like the reasonable one trying to get a deal.

Honestly, I think you are going to get screwed or get no agreements at all.. Perhaps she's in a guilty phase, but I think it's more manipulation than guilt, so I don't think striking while the guilt is hot is going to work in this case..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, July 1st (Monday)

I do have an attorney but she is not coming with me--nor is my wife's.

However, you can be sure I will not sign anything without consulting with my attorney.

I guess I will see how it goes. If it becomes clear that she is not being cooperative or compromising or doing what is best for the kids, I am prepared to walk out and head straight to my attorney's.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, July 1st (Monday)

Please try to get as much money from her as you can. I say this for one reason. if you are the one who was at home and not making much money, your WW is going to be able to make LOTS of money w/o children around. I hate to say this, but the crazy train didn't end with the D, because I appear calm to XWH. I still have to put my boundaries in place. XWH is always threatening me to go back to court and take kids from me. I wish I had the huge income he has bc he can just throw his weight around, with $$ to back him up.
I make minimal income after being home 15 years with our children.

When my friend got D her dad told her to get the MOST she could. My friend felt bad doing that. But her Dad told her, you are going to have huge expenses with your daughters. At the end of every year if you haven't used all the money you have been awarded that year, you can give it back to WH!!! She uses every bit of it.

just my opinion.
good luck in mediation,
try to stay in "thinking" brain, not "reacting" brain.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2120 | Registered: Jan 2012
survivingslowly
Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 1st (Monday)

I am a registered family/divorce mediator...for the past 20 yrs.

However, I am also in Canada which may be slightly different.

First off, I would NEVER see my clients separately. Ever. Does not work, under any circumstances. I see each of them briefly individually at the first appt. to gather some background info., asking them the same questions etc. But never after that. That can be construed as no longer being neutral which is a bad place for a mediator to be.

Not withstanding the above, another reason why I would never be a go between, between clients is that it would never end, but also that I require my clients to act like grownups....there are children's lives at stake here. So, they need to, at least, be able to act in a civilized manner in an office setting with a third person there.

As well, ADad.....the last issues that I would deal with in mediation are the financial ones. My first priority with all of my clients (except those clients whose children are above 18), is the parenting plan. All of the details that make up the parenting plan.....primary residence, major decisions, guardianship, special occasions, vacations, safety, minor parenting decisions etc. Then, and only then, would I tackle the child support/spousal/property division etc. Children first, finances last.

ADad, I totally agree with standingonmarble about the mediation meeting....never, ever agree to something that you are not prepared to follow through with. If you need time to consult with your lawyer (or whoever), by all means, please state that to the mediator. We do not take offense to that. We want you to be happy with your agreement. This is what I tell all of my clients....I am not going to follow you around in your life and make sure that you are following the agreement. So, don't agree to ABC if you know that you are going to walk out of this room and do XYZ. That's wasting everyone's time.

So, tomorrow, remember that, if you are not able to fully comply with a resolution, DON'T agree to it, at least not until you can know this about yourself.

And finally, ButterflyGirl, it is ABSOLUTELY not true that mediators don't care if it's fair or not, just legal. Very unwise. I have been in this business for many years, and would never continue if I didn't care about my clients. What I don't care about...is if it IS legal......I really don't. Over the years, I have seen so many variations of parenting plans, from the typical every other weekend, to 50/50, to the children staying in the family home and the parents rotating through. It's been crazy, at how creative some people can be.

And in fact, I did go to bat for one fellow just last week, when I felt the wife was being rather unreasonable....and yes, she was the BS. So was I many years ago, but still.

I hope that you didn't have a negative experience with mediation, but if you did, I'm sorry about that. I love what I do and there are so many times that I wish I could find out how it all ended for my clients or if they are doing well with their agreements.

ADAd, just go in, be yourself, don't get sucked into her stuff, be assertive, and DO NOT agree to anything unless you feel confident that you will be ready to deliver.

I wish you all the best. Nothing in mediation is written in stone, so relax.

Please update us so we can know how it goes.

Btw, I'm the BS and in full R for 6 yrs., but come to read here b/c it helps me to understand where my clients are at. It really helps me to see the "human" side. Thank you for sharing.

SS


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 310 | Registered: Apr 2007
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Wish me strength with mediation this morning. I will let you know after how it went!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Good luck, AD!


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

good luck today brother and as always strength.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Abbondad - If it helps, imagine all of standing behind you, giving her the stink eye.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Good luck today Abbondad!!

Thanks for setting me straight survivngslowly. That was what I was told by my first lawyer, who was fired for quite a few reasons after our first mediation, and it did seem to me that whether it was "legal" was all the mediator cared about. I obviously defer to the professional here..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Wishing you luck, sending SI MoJo, and the strength of all of us behind you.

This is the begining of ENDING the Chaos for your kids. When you feel yourself weakening remember that.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Good luck today.

Be strong.


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Good luck today AD
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Sending mediation MOJO!


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Good luck!


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Hope it goes/went well today.


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17322 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Hi Everyone,

Mediation went OK--much better than expected. The uncomprehending petulance appeared here and there, but reality shot it down.

I don't feel vindicated, relieved or anything. Just terribly sad that it came to this. It didn't have to.

I did everything I could and for so long to avoid this.

More details later. I am exhausted.

Thanks, everyone, as always.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

((((((AD))))))



BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

((((AD)))) I'm glad things went better than you had expected. Not at all surprised that you're exhausted. Take it easy on yourself.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

hey brother, you done good. just a quick heads up, be prepared. the uncomprehending petulance is going to come to an end.

guard your heart.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

I'm not posting much but I'm still here and still reading. And I'm still sending you tons of strength and HUGS.

You got this. You truly do.

I'm proud of you!


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

AD, it did have to come to this. She left the M along time ago. Don't beat yourself up because you finally realized your hope alone couldn't save the M. Better this and in time your having a real shot at happiness, then the hell you have been living.

[This message edited by momentintime at 1:06 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2966 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Still exhausted after a sleepless night. Going over everything in my head that went down at mediation. To be honest, there were so many details I would not be able to report exactly the MSA will look like. In any case of course I will bring it to my attorney before I sign it.

The most important thing is that I will continue to live in the house with the kids. She will pay CS and additional expenses.

I will keep my pension.

I think if I teach some extra courses our kids will be able to stay in the house for a couple more years. I will be keeping a strict record of expenses over the next year to see if it is feasible without me having to dip into what little savings I have.

She is in utter panic mode. Now she wants it all back. But she still has not dumped the POS. we are still Plan A and B. well, to be more accurate, I am no longer Plan anything.

Thanks....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

((((AD))))

Things are working in your favor finally. Yes this is not the outcome you hoped for 2+ years ago, but you know in your heart that you deserve so much more.

You will figure out a way to stay in your home if that is what you truly want. Her words are just words, blah blah blah. She has done NOTHING to back them up. You however have. You have a LOT to be proud of. You are going to get through this, and be a stronger, more grounded, happier person.

Be Proud. You are doing well.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

And here come the Uglies, just as expected:

She has been offered a six-figure job, but it requires her to travel.

Thus she can't spend 50% of overnights with the kids.

Thus she would have to pay twice as much in CS.

She is accusing me of being "unreasonable" because I said yes, she must pay the required amount of CS.

OR of course she could decline the job and spend 50% of overnights with the kids and pay half the amount...but she wouldn't have a job, or would have a lower-paying job.

Thus she would not be able to keep her upscale lifestyle.

Again, MY fault.

But my worst fear: she, unsurprisingly, is making noises about ME moving out of our home and SHE moving in. Or worse, ROTATING residency.

No. Way. Am I leaving or rotating.

And this has nothing to do with me: it would mess up the kids even more than they are or will be.

If she is stupid enough to take this to court, is it possible that I could be forced out of our home? SHE moved out, HER name is on the rental lease of HER apartment.

I knew this would happen and mediation would not work with her...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
haysuth01
Member
Member # 29161
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

If you are spending the majority of overnights with the kids, I would think that YOU would get exclusive use of the house. And she moved out. So...

But I've been wrong before!


XBS
Divorced 5/07.
DS-7! What?!
Happily remarried, B/G twins (5).

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jul 2010
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

She is just testing the waters to see how much she can make you cave in, using the kids as part of her weapons. Don't fall for her antics.

Yes, she is trying to apply pressure. She is playing on all your fears. She knows the right buttons to push. Change the game up. Don't respond, don't rise to the bait.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2966 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

OR of course she could decline the job and spend 50% of overnights with the kids and pay half the amount...but she wouldn't have a job, or would have a lower-paying job.

Check with your attorney. In at least one state CS is based on earning potential, not actual income. If she turned down a significant increase to sepnd timne with her children that is appropriate, but if impacts her earnings she could still be on the hook for the higher CS despite the lower income since it would be a "voluntary" decrease in earnings.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4130 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

AD, you are doing great.

Expect her to ramp up and get worse. These kind of people don't take it well when we suddenly grow a backbone and insist on being treated fairly and with dignity.

Perhaps a boiler plate response such as, " Please have your lawyer contact mine." is appropriate, but run in by your lawyer. That's why you have a lawyer.

Please be careful about any response you give her. Pretend that a judge will read everything. Frame everything around the best interests of the children. No emotion. You want to appear as the reasonable, mature parent at all times.

I kept everything to email as it had an automatic paper trail.


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
Phoenix1
Member
Member # 38928
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

In at least one state CS is based on earning potential, not actual income.

That is how it is in my state as well. My POS is currently unemployed, but he historically makes a decent living, and it will be his earning "potential" based on his history that CS will be based on so if he takes a lower paying job or continues to be unemployed it won't decrease CS.


BS - Me
XPOS - too many OW/OCs over 20+yrs
Kids - DDs 22,17 -DS20 Deceased
M Dissolved 2013

This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man ~ Shakespeare, Hamlet


Posts: 1106 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Rising out of Hell's ashes!
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Sorry, AD. It sounds like others who have been through this how found earning potential to be a factor, so I'll keep my fingers crossed you find that to be the case. Hope you are able to step away from the madness for a bit and enjoy the 4th with your babies. (((AD)))


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

absolutely agree brother, you are doing great. it's nice to be able to predict her actions isn't it?

unfortunately, yes in all reality she will be stupid enough to take this to court. if you have not been documenting her actions up till now please do so. you absolutely do have the upperhand. she did abandon the family and move out. by doing so and leaving the children in your custody, she has shown by her actions what a competent father you are.

my intuition that she will take this to court is based on the fact she continues to blame you for everything. the child support is not insubstantial factor in this equation. how dare you mess with her lifestyle.

my immediate recommendation would be to drop mediation and file for divorce now. do you truly believethe children's best interest are a factor in her decisions right now?

stay the course, we are all here to support you in whatever your decisions are.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

Hi Everyone,

Not much new to report, except that STBXWW has for now abandoned the Ugly and has cycled back to the Sweet for now.

I think my feeling of empowerment, strength, etc.--a sort of "high"--after mediation has dissipated and now I feel extremely depressed over the whole saga. It's just so sad, so tragic.

I'll state the obvious for the hundredth time: How these people can throw away a life, a family, everything, is just beyond me...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

Abb,

I'm there with you.
I ask myself the same question every day. My STBXWW has utterly convinced herself and now her solicitor, that the marriage was in a bad way before she had the affair.

My STBXWW has reached a new level of crazy but her lies and marital rewrite is coming home to roost, finally.

My first mediation is next week but is only the assessment so nothing will be decided that day. I know that the mediator will not accept her crazy justifications and she will get a shock.

Keep it up

I know what you mean when you say that euphoria of the high that came from a position of taking control of your life wears off and then you feel lousy again. I'm 'high' right now but tomorrow I will just be sad all over again that it has come to this.

Good luck


All


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 685 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

...and back to the Ugly.

I am being unreasonable.
She didn't like the way I was in mediation.
There is "no way" she is not going to be with the kids 50% of the time.
She doesn't see why I should spend so much time with them.
WE made a decision to separate given the circumstances. (Uh, no, she left our family to "heal" and "grow" AKA screw another man)
And...."this divorce thing is not working well"

What this is going to lead to, I fear, but expected, is that she is going to demand I leave our home and it will go to court. If it does, so be it.

Actions=consequences


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

You do know you not only can, but should, limit conversation with her, right? She's not your friend now, and is not apt to become one. What are you deriving from the up-down cycle with her?

You've made lots of progress, but seem to still be getting something from the rapid mood swings. What us it feeding, for you?


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8685 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

Please god, Buddha, Allah, Zeus, Superman... I just want this divorce to be over so I can move on with my life.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

Divorce and crazy making behavior are two different things. You want the crazy to go away, the divorce process will eventually get settled.

Don't rush the process to get over the divorce, my fWH did that in his first divorce and got screwed.

Has your therapist given you tools to help you cope during the high anxiety times? Not just meds but other things to self-help you?

Holidays can bring out the worst, especially the first time thru the cycle of holidays.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

You do know you not only can, but should, limit conversation with her, right? She's not your friend now, and is not apt to become one. What are you deriving from the up-down cycle with her?

I understand. I am trying my best to limit face-to-face conversation. I will have to try harder so she won't push my buttons.

But as one if you noted, now that the poison is appearing, it does give me increasing clarity--if I needed any-- that I do not want this person any more.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

The fight tonight had to do with the party down the street. I had told her that I was taking the kids to the party. Then she came to see the kids and insisted that we both go--because this is what the kids wanted.

Well, yeah, sure they would like that. Except that we. Are. Divorcing. She doesn't seem to understand this reality.

I told her that both of us there would confuse the kids. Which it would. I refuse to play Happy Family. And it's bullshit that its for the kids. It's for her: she still wants it all--the family life.

I'm sorry, but she brought this on, even though I am driving the divorce.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

What I learned from SI and maybe after 2 years I am finally believing this:

NC=No new hurts.

I just went NC again on XWH because I want to stop hurting.

Our fights sound exactly like yours...


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2120 | Registered: Jan 2012
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Wonderful, AD. You really are getting there. I, too, needed the repetition of contact to show me I wanted--not just needed-- to end my marriage. Sounds like you're on the same plan

[This message edited by solus sto at 12:18 AM, July 5th (Friday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8685 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Hey AD, doing really well. Glad to see you are continuing down the path to recovery. You are absolutely right in you read that she is refusing to see reality. Her head is so far up her fundament that she can look out of her navel. Obviously that is a somewhat constricted view of the world.

I'd like you to reassess this statement however.

I'm sorry, but she brought this on, even though I am driving the divorce.

Are you really driving the divorce? Has she dropped the OM? Shown remorse and made fundamental changes to herself to make her someone to be safe with? On one hand, yes, you are driving the divorce, but it's a reaction to her actions. Had she stopped her A and made authentic choices, you wouldn't be here.

Just concerned that you might be taking on too much responsibility for the D. This is ALL on her brother.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, July 5th (Friday)

AD. Here's the thing. I was really bad at NC because I needed to see the *cycles* that you refer to. I actually needed Sultan to act like a dick. It gave me the strength that I needed to finally say "enough."

Just remember that your stbxww's *niceness* is totally self-serving. It's all about her. She isn't interested in compromising or fairness. She doesn't care about the best interest of the kids.

I am also the one is *driving* the divorce. Just tonight, in a text, Sultan told me that I could "change now but I choose not to." Ummmm. Yea. Why would I care to change?

Just remember AD. SHE killed the marriage. YOU are only giving it a proper and respectful burial. If you left it up to her...she'd just toss that shit out the car window and let the crows eat it.

Hang tight. You are in the hardest part of this right now....and you are doing really well.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 12:39 AM, July 5th (Friday)

I told her that both of us there would confuse the kids.

Absolutely. My POS needed to hear that one quite a few times to learn it too..

I was thinking today about my STBX's ups and downs, all the cycles, and I was starting to wonder if it was making ME passive/aggressive. When dealing with all this crap, it's easy to be quiet and then bitch back at them, but the goal is to be ASSERTIVE. Try not to let her cycles change how YOU behave. You want to look like the reasonable parent, so don't play her games. If she's not following the rules, take your ball and go home.

Seriously Dad, you need to limit all conversations to text and email, ESPECIALLY right now if you are about to file for divorce and possibly fight for custody. And no cursing, no admitting your faults, no being unreasonable about anything cause you're pissed. Don't let her make you feel off balance. You need to be as strong and assertive as possible without being passive or aggressive with her.

Try to STOP talking about the OM, the cheating, the other marital problems. KIDS AND FINANCES ONLY. IGNORE THE REST. You said it, it's over, you don't want her anymore, so there's no need to talk about any of that anymore, and you will only look bad to a judge if you do.

That's great advice to write EVERY text and email as if a judge would read it. I have thousands of texts and emails saved, and I'm counting on a few hundred of them to help me tremendously in our court hearing coming up. Please, please start protecting yourself every way you know how..

Big hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, July 5th (Friday)

AD, just popped in to say... awesome job so far! Keep it up and never - ever lose sight of the fact that *you* did not cause this... *she* did. So if she wants to play the blame game (and she most certainly will) just keep remembering who/what she has become and what ultimately got you to this stage.

PEACE


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have. ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Divorce and crazy making behavior are two different things. You want the crazy to go away, the divorce process will eventually get settled.

This is great to keep in mind. I am starting to worry too much about the divorce, which will be resolved one way or another, but her behavior is something that I can "control"--at least insofar as I let it happen and affect me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Are you really driving the divorce? Has she dropped the OM? Shown remorse and made fundamental changes to herself to make her someone to be safe with? On one hand, yes, you are driving the divorce, but it's a reaction to her actions. Had she stopped her A and made authentic choices, you wouldn't be here.

What I meant by this is that I am the one actively pushing the divorce forward. I am the one who wants it. Of course she is responsible for it; if it were up to her things would remain status quo. I would be a good boy and continue to let her do what she wants while I remain in the role of husband.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Hey Abbondad, through all of this don't forget to take some time for yoruself and go out and have some fun. Yes, it sounds weird to say it and even do it but it really does help. The D process is just that a process, it will run it's course once you start it. Keep spending time with your kids doing fun things and time with family and friends enjoying yourself. It helps keep you on the path to your new normal. Going out and doing things gives a different perspective to pull on when STBX rolls through on the crazy train. You can just wave as she goes by without gettting on with her because you have these other experiences to fall back on that ARE normal and NOT filled with craziness.

You are doing great! I hope you are starting to feel it and know it yourself. For me it felt different to know I was moving forward towards something new and normal but it also felt great when those wobbly first steps I took turned into confident strides towards a new life that was mine to do with as I pleased. Keep moving forward!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Hi,

As I related before, things are getting predictably uglier in relation to the house. She is coming and staying at will, talking about ME moving out, or us rotating. It's just crazy and most importantly, NOT good for the kids. They are as accustomed as they are going to be to these arrangements: they live in their home with daddy and then they to to mommys place.

It's hard, but that's the way it is.

Thing is, I really don't want any ties to her other than the children once the D is finalized. I don't like the fact that we would still own the house together.

So at this point, as some of you have suggested, the best thing ultimately would be to sell the house (which would also help financially), buy my own place she could buy her own place.

It would be in a new school district but they would have to adjust. And of course they can visit all their own friends--and make new ones.

Since we are divorcing I just think that it will be best for all involved to just go whole hog and start anew, thus saving myself years of her Crazy in relation to the mutually owned house.

(It's already begun: "This is MY house too!" Etc.)

It would also cut down on the tension between us that the kids are still sensing.

Thoughts?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Obviously the mediated divorce isn't going to work. Sure, it's her house too in a legal sense, but she HAS moved out. She obviously has no respect for your wishes and continues to act as if this will all wash out in the rain.

Go nuclear. File for D and custody. Fun and games time is over. You will never have a better shot at being awarded custody than you do now. She voluntarily moved from the family home and left the children in your primary care.

Your lawyer will have better advise, but it sounds like she's getting some legal advice on her own. She's beginning to reassert her presence in the kids lives to establish a framework for her getting custody. Have a judge set up a schedule and eliminate this back and forth. You're absolutely right, this isn't in the kids best interest.

Glad to see you are on the right page as to who is driving the D brother.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, July 5th (Friday)

I have not been through the D yet, so I don't have that experience, but I think what you're saying sounds totally reasonable. I don't know if this is ever done where you are (it is here), but you might also consider contacting the superintendent of your current school district and see if they would allow the kids to continue to attend, at least in the short term, their same school. It would break up the big changes a bit and maybe allow some time for adjustment? Just a thought. Otherwise, I think you are right on to just wash your hands of her and start new. At this point I doubt it's about the house for her, it's about the control and getting one over on you. It's a shame she can't stop for a minute and put her children first.


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
WorldTraveler23
New Member
Member # 36528
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 5th (Friday)

My thoughts?

My thoughts are: MY GOD, what a difference a few months made for you. I am so impressed and so "wowed" by your transformation, your will, your drive, and your dedication to making a better life for your kids and for YOURSELF. You kept coming back, you listened to all of the advice, and you have seriously CHANGED.

A month ago you said that the kids could "never survive" changing schools (I am quoting but you may have used different words, just a similar gist). You said it would break them. A month before that, you said that a divorce would break them.

You are realizing how resilient you are, and how resilient your children can be when they need to be.

I think that even if the divorce gives you exclusive right of the house, your wife will ALWAYS use whatever means are at-hand to weasel around with you. I think that selling and buying something you can safely afford and feel HAPPY in will be wonderful for you and for your kids.

But no matter what, I am so so so impressed with the changes you have made.

Have you ever read or watched something about treatment for OCD? It's fascinating. You can find a show called "obsessed" on Netflix if you're interested. Basically the most effective treatment is exposure to the anxiety-producing thing. Over and over, so that the brain learns that even when anxiety spikes, it ALWAYS comes back down. The spikes get less and less, and more and more manageable. It is painful to watch and excruciating to go through. But the folks who stick it out almost always show remarkable improvement. It is the bravest thing I've ever watched, and I got to "watch" it here with you.

Keep going. You're doing it. You're already halfway down the road. The rest will just be details and cleanup and it'll be hard but the hard part is halfway done. Great job.


Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, July 5th (Friday)

Go nuclear. File for D and custody. Fun and games time is over. You will never have a better shot at being awarded custody than you do now.
^^^This for all the reasons he stated. If mediation looks to be a bust file for D and custody and let the lawyers hammer out the arrangements. I can't speak to your state but I have seen other posts around here where some were able to have there lawyer get them exclusive use of the marital home during the D process. Go for it now if you can while she still has her name on the apratment lease.

Misery loves company so don't be surprised as she ratchets it up even more. No matter what happens always keep yourself calm. She will be looking for ways to throw you off your game.

If mediation is working great but if not go ahead and go the D route and ask for what you want with your L. Just be prepared for the mind games and fuckery to continue for as long as this process goes on.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 12:59 PM, July 5th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, July 5th (Friday)

Personally I think selling an starting fresh will be very good for you and your kids. She won't have any mark, or scent on a place that is ALL YOURS. Thus providing a safe place for your kiddos too. Many of us moved as kids and started different schools and we all lived and weren't destroyed by it.
The way the world is now its very easy for the kids to stay in touch with old friends if they choose to.
Quite honestly I think it would be hard as hell to stay in the marital home after a D. Too many memories and her crazy ass will be telling you that it's both your homes even after a buyout. Don't give her the option, take control.
I would also like to add that if she is randomly coming and staying you need to steer clear of her. Stay in a separate room and be very clear with your kids that you are still divorcing and that you gave NO control over what she is doing and let them know that you are not mad at them when you are cold withdrawn and seperate yourself when she's around it's because you can't be around her anymore. They know you are divorcing. Being honest with them will help clear up any confusion that they are having because of her bullshit.

Stay Strong AD. YOU are doing this. YOU are going to survive it!!!


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Personally I think selling an starting fresh will be very good for you and your kids.

I really am thinking this more and more. I need to break all ties with her, and she is just going to keep giving me grief over the house--whose home it is, how much she is contributing financially to it, etc.

And you are right, as usual. The kids will be Ok. It can even be exciting for them.

Plus it is too big to keep up and frankly, I am depressed living in it. Too many memories. And what about when I meet someone? It would be uncomfortable for her to be in the home--to say nothing of my STBXWW, who would freak out.

But I can't force her to agree to sell, so I am not sure what to do.

Suggestions?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

AD, oh yes, you CAN force her to agree to sell. It's called a partition lawsuit and is done all the time, at least here in VA. Basically you request the court to have the house sold and the proceeds are split (i.e., partitioned) between you. This can even be done when there is no divorce.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

My advice? Don't talk about selling the house yet. Talk to your attorney. Stop talking to her and telling her of your plans.

This is going to be a 2x4 for you. How many times a day do you talk to this woman? You truly need to stop engaging so much. It wramps up your stress and just like many BS's you start thinking the worse scenario and getting crazy over things that are months or possibly years out.

Right now deal with learning to detach some more. Wear a rubber band and snap it hard whenever you want to call or she wants to talk to you. Stop all of it. From all of your posts it looks like you talk to her about all of your issues at least once if not more then that PER DAY. This will make you crazy. Trust us.

The house will be worked out down the road, living arrangements and speaking with your attorney about what to do are top priority.

And I agree with other people that carrying a VAR around with you might be important the further this goes along. We have seen to many stories on here of couples who swore that their WS "would never do" XYZ....and found out down the road how they wished they would have listened to all of us.


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, July 6th (Saturday)


My thoughts are: MY GOD, what a difference a few months made for you. I am so impressed and so "wowed" by your transformation, your will, your drive, and your dedication to making a better life for your kids and for YOURSELF. You kept coming back, you listened to all of the advice, and you have seriously CHANGED.

Thank you so much for this. It moves me. I never thought I'd come to this place. Never. And those of you who have been following my story from way back in December? January? know this.

It's not over, of course, but I have learned so much--via the pits of hell, unfortunately. I look forward to giving back as, tragically, so many more of us stream in every day with the same basic story.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I think it's important for you to recognize how much stronger you have become, Abbondad. I'm glad you are seeing it.

As for the house, I absolutely agree that you stop talking to her about it. Tell your lawyer you want it ordered sold and proceeds split. If she really wants the house, she'll have to buy you out at fair market value.

Either way, you get a fresh start, less of a maintenance hassle, and a space that is ALL YOURS. Can't begin to tell you how amazing that feels. It's a quantum leap in healing when you are out of the marital home and in your own space that she has no claim to.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

This is exactly what I did. I walked away from the house, literally moved to a new city with the kids, and started over.

In order to make the move enticing to the kids, I promised them gerbils when we moved. I did, and they had a great time thinking about them, coming up with names, setting up the cage and buying the stuff...then it gave them an opportunity to make new friends by taking to other kids and saying, "Do you wanna come see our new gerbils?" By the time the newness of the gerbils wore off, we were fairly settled into routine.

This is MY house. WE live here...ex does not. He has to knock to come in, he doesn't have a key. I have neighbors with keys...if he needs to come for an emergency, there are ways to get him a key. IT. IS. MINE.

Best thing I did for myself. Start over.

She is now, for lack of a better term, the enemy. Your only job is to fight for yourself and your future with your kids. That is how I looked at it, and trust me...I left a lying, egocentric NPD asshole. It was not easy, months of fighting in mediation...but I was determined. I had a goal in mind, and I would not deviate. I looked at it as the fight for the rest of my life.

My ex did the same, "This is MY house too!" when he first moved into his apartment and I was staying in our former marital home. He respected no boundaries. Wanted to see the kids every night...literally, come to dinner, tuck them in bed, then leave. He would walk in unannounced, would try to get me to hug him, wanted to "play family" without being a husband. I let that happen about a week...then I took back control.

It is time to focus on you (and your kids) only.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4142 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

Hey, I hit the two-hundred post mark!

Ironic, as I am not feeling elated today. Quite the opposite. I have crashed--depression and despair as the reality of everything reasserts itself.

I guess this is the ways it's going to be for awhile. Hopefully until the D is over and things settle down as best they can.

STBXWW texted me this morning: "Are you sure?

I wasn't even sure what she was referring to. Then "about your decision?"

I texted "Yes."

She retorted with something vaguely threatening. Something about me having to support her new decisions in life and that she did not "like the way I was in mediation."

(I was pretty stone faced and all business.)

Does this mean that if I had replied "No I am not sure" that she would have been sweetness and light?

It is just so childish: Are you sure? Well, then, you're gonna get it, but I'm not gonna tell you what I'm gonna do!

Whatever. I texted back, "I support you as long as your decisions do not affect our children adversely."

Two texts too many on my part, right?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
rivenheart
Member
Member # 13838
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

Two texts too many on my part, right?

Yup.

Purely as an editorial aside, who gives a tinker's fart what she thinks of your demeanor in mediation?


rivenheart ~ heartriven
Me: BW, 36 at d-day; WH, 40

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Mar 2007
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Two texts too many on my part, right?

Exactly! You are getting there. What you should have done was nothing. No response. There was no question about kids and finances. She is continuing to try to talk to you about emotions and family, etc....

Your next thing you need to learn to do is just not respond. Or the "I am sorry you feel that way" response and nothing else.

Keeping the personal emotions or feelings out of this is hard I know but the more you talk to her the more ammunition she has against you in her twisted world. What you might think is innocent gets turned around on you the next day.

This is not just her, this is about you as well. Meaning co dependency for a BS is a very hard habit to break. This is for you to learn to not respond all the time to her and her rants.

The only person you talk to tomorrow is your attorney to get him/her up to speed.


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Two texts too many on my part, right?

Yes. The sooner you stop chatting with her whenever she contacts you, the sooner you heal and move on.

It took me along time to get to that point. And once I got to that point the roller coaster stopped.


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

You do see that when you detach and do not engage in her Crazy that you have the power, don't you?

You are getting it. Keep on trying. Every time she tries to suck you back in you need to stop, remind yourself of all her horrible actions and simply not respond. I know easier said than done. But all I can say is practice makes perfect.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Thanks, Everyone,

I think what I need to do whenever she starts trying to manipulate me into talking about CS or anything divorce-related, is just respond with "We will talk about it in mediation." And then cut it off and limit the discussion to kids and finances. I definitely don't want to talk about "us" any more.

And I don't want to say anything that could be used against me.

Rather depressed today, and find myself haunted now and then by thoughts of reconciliation. But then I refer to my List of Horrible Things She Has Done and it grounds me again.

The struggle continues. Wish I could hit fast-forward.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Hi,

Again, bad day emotionally today. I guess the grief cycle is not linear. Been crying just like I did months ago. The recent trigger was my son just calling to tell me he wants to bring one of his fish tanks to his mom's apartment. It's just a hard reminder of the reality of the situation--that our family world is moving in two separate directions.

The fish tanks in his room was a center of family activity. It feels like a death to have it removed. It is going to be devastating when we sell the house and have to remove all memories. I know, it probably will be cathartic ultimately, but for now I am in deep sadness.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
deeplysad
Member
Member # 16590
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

((((Abbondad))))


Me: BW - I'm much too young to feel this damn old
Him: FWH - Midlife crisis with a pathetic porn wannabe
D-Day: August 2004; Lots of false R until February 2005.

It takes all kinds of kinds....Miranda Lambert


Posts: 3233 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: So Calif
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Youre making all the right moves,now.My divorce was final two years ago and every now an then I will get a tex from the ex about how she still loves me etc. I normally just ignore it or rip into her about her LTA (6 years) with her then married boyfriend, a co-worker of course. Initially I tried to reconcile with her, but she never showed me any renewed appreciation or really tried to make things right. She was still angry at me for breaking up her little fantasy affair an that I exposed boyfriend to be a coward both to her an his soon to be ex-wife. In any event,when she came back her attitude was, "OKAY IAM BACK" "IAM NOT TALKING ABOUT IT", "AN IAM NOT GOING TO COUNCILING"! Oh really. I allowed this to go on for about two months then I kicked her out an divorced her. She ended up moving 3 hours away leaving me to finish raising our son, which was fine with me, It just showed me what kind of person she truly was. Again your doing everything right, continue focusing on you an your kids an everything will work itself out, reconciliation for some of us is not an option anymore.Stay strong.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 92 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
philly172
Member
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

The recent trigger was my son just calling to tell me he wants to bring one of his fish tanks to his mom's apartment. It's just a hard reminder of the reality of the situation--that our family world is moving in two separate directions. The fish tanks in his room was a center of family activity. It feels like a death to have it removed

What 'm taking from this is your son is ready to move on.. he knows there is going to be 2 houses & is dealing with it in a healthy way.. I see this as a good thing .


"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4779 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

Hi everyone,

Don't know why I'm falling apart today. Sobbing in my brothers car. I am fighting a terrible urge to call her and scream, "How could you do this to our family?"

Please talk me down. Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
jackie89
Member
Member # 38271
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

Hi Abbondad,

I have been following your thread, but haven't given much advice, as there are so many great people here that are better at giving advice. But I heard you, and I think you have done so well, you are doing all the right things. Really!

Today you're having a bad day, we all have them, that's normal! Tomorrow is going to be a new day.

This is your new reality, the sooner you start to accept it the better off you'll be - oh it sucks big time, it's unfair and all you want to do is Shake them into reality.

When I get down, I try and think, that everything happens for a reason, the Universe has a plan for us - we got to believe that. Besides, why do we want to stay with somebody that doesn't love us? We deserve better.

Hang in there ok? You'll get through it!


Separated/divorcing

"The Secret of Change is to focus all your energy - not on fighting the old, but on building the new" ~~Lori Greiner FB post~~


Posts: 481 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

I read your thread yesterday when I needed guidance. What you have been documenting here is fantastic for people like me, considering D and unsure of the way forward.

My WW sounds like yours in a lot of ways -- not all.

I don't have advice, but you have given me strength and guidance. I appreciate that so much.

Not a lot of people are as level-headed or articulate as you. This suggests to me that your wife threw away more than she'll ever have again. It's so sad and so tragic.

I feel the same way about my situation. How can they throw away so much? Weekends are always worse for me, I imagine they might be for you, too. Hang in there.

Stay strong.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
soveryweary
Member
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

I wish there was something I could do to lesson you your pain.
But I am right there with you, the anguish.
Just wanted you to know you are not alone.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 626 | Registered: May 2011
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

Hey Abbondad,

I just want to give you a hug. (((((Abbondad)))))

I know how much it hurts and the swirling thoughts and wild swinging emotions. It sucks, and I hope your day steadily gets better.

I'm not sure how far back it was in your thread, but you wrote about coming apart after therapy and I made some suggestions for some self-care actions you could do to help stabilize your emotions.

I think one of the most painful periods of my M falling apart was the intense pain and physical agony I felt from sobbing. I had to find a way to "get a grip" and not allow my emotions to spiral out of control. I encourage you to do some things to help yourself moderate your emotions. Distraction, exercise, hot or cold water, talking to your brother and asking him to help distract you and change the subject away from your STBXWW and your fractured home.

You need to actively manage your thoughts so you don't reinforce the emotions. Find an alternate thought when you catch yourself thinking about her. A go-to thought. Something totally benign and mundane.

Like salad ingredients. Example: "Fuck I'm thinking about her again and I'm getting worked up! Dammit! OK, redirect redirect redirect my brain. Hmmm. Ok, lettuce is the foundation. Now what combination of sweet savory crunch creamy toothy things for salad tonight? Apples. Cheddar cheese. Sweet peas. Raisins. Need another vegetable or three. Mmmm. OK red bell pepper. How about a nut? What goes with apples and cheddar? Cashews? Ok. And then maybe cucumber. Right. Now how do I dress this? Sweet creamy poppy seed."

Seriously. This works. It cuts the ache. Pick another thought to go to. That park you like. How to get to the bench, or vista point. Walk yourself through it. What route do you drive to get there? What does the parking lot look like? Where is the trail head? What turns do you make? Ok, and when you get there what do you see? Work it out in your mind's eye.

Voila. You redirected your thoughts for a minute or two. Practice this! It helps!


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, July 7th (Sunday)

Thanks to everyone who took the time to offer support on a Sunday. I am feeling better. I guess I was responding to the sign of finality--that my son is slowly taking some of his most "grounded" stuff over to his mom's.

And yes, I must see it as a good thing for him--that he is adjusting. My job is to keep being strong for him.

As far as the divorce, I think I am putting too much pressure on myself--thinking too far ahead and obsessing over all kinds of worst case scenarios. It is a slow process and nothing new is happening right now--haven't even gotten a draft of the MSA and our next mediation isn't for a couple of weeks. So I need to calm down.

Thank you for the suggestion on controlling the intrusive thoughts. I have tried that, and it does not really work. I have OCD AND Tourette's Syndrome so it is extra tough. (Lucky me, huh? ;-)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, July 8th (Monday)

OK well that helps tremendously knowing about the OCD and Tourettes. Yes you are going to have a tough time dealing with this emotional stuff, because lucky you were made without the normal switched and circutry that make is easier to change your focus.

MEDICAL QUESTION: Do you work with a neurologist or a a Neuropshycologist to manage the Tourettes and OCD? If you are do they know what is going on and the increased mental stress you are under? The reason I ask is often folks with these conditions can do fine in day to day life, but when something upsets the routine it cycles out of conrol 123BANG. If you are having difficulty managing these right now, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE see these Dr's, not just your Therapist, and psych. Dealing with Tourettes is a very specidific thing, and although others can venture and follow the steps to treating, you really would benefit from someone who does it day in and out.

It is good that your son is wanting to make some space his own at his moms. This will help keep her out of your hair, if the kids are comfortable at her place. If all they do is bitch and moan that they need this, or miss that when they are with her, she will come back stomping all over the house, since you can't legally keep her out.

Please do your best to focus your OCD thoughts on ways to improve you. When you start to cycle instead of fretting and doing something unproductive, start working toward a solution. What I mean is when you feel that starting focus on looking at houses/condo's etc in the area either by driving around, or by looking on the internet. Focus on your new goals.

YOU CAN Do THIS, and YOU WILL make it through.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, July 8th (Monday)

AD - how you doing? Just catching up on your thread. You are doing great under the circumstances.

Sending you strength brother.
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, July 8th (Monday)

You can get a second fish tank. He can't get another you.

Please take care of yourself and follow up on tushnurse's suggestions.

Big hugs. I know it's hard to believe it now, but you will get through this.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, July 8th (Monday)

Hi, Everyone,

I just sent this privately to another member, but I really need to tell all of you of this:

This morning my STBXWW arrived home crying, wrought up, and basically pleading to come back. I said literally nothing for around a half hour and just let her talk. She expressed (note: "expressed") remorse for hurting me, acknowledged responsibility, character failings, psychological problems, realization that she is weak and the affair "was" an escape, promised to address all in therapy, recognized how much she loves me, misses me, needs our family, etc. etc.

Somewhere in there was an allusion to knowing "what I needed" for me to take her back (the obvious--dump the POS as a FIRST step).

After she had talked and cried herself out, I simply told her that I have zero trust in her and that I do not believe she currently has any idea of how deeply she has hurt me.

I told her to even consider reconciliation I would need to see immediate actions over a very long period of time--very hard constant work to rebuild my trust and heal my damage. And regular therapy for her to fix her problems. And I would not even consider her moving back home until I believed we are well on our way.

I promised nothing.

That was basically my response. She acknowledged tearfully that she understood, and she left.

Do I believe she will do all this? Or is even capable of it? Not really. I think she is scared to death now that I have actually started the wheels of divorce in motion and gave her a dose of life without me. I still believe this is all about her.

If I see her do all the above, I might consider it. If there is the slightest possibility that she will do all she promises and changes utterly and demonstrates true remorse, I would prefer our children have an intact family.

But I am not stopping the divorce. I will go all the way to the judge's gavel at this point.

Her words are nice, but I have heard words for two years. They mean nothing to me and I told her so. Maybe she really gets it, maybe not. Probably not.

Anyway, just wanted to keep you apprised of the latest.

I do know this, though: I will be OK without her. I am willing to lose the marriage at this point.

Let the 2x4s fly and/or support.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, July 8th (Monday)

Holy cow, you did fantastic! Huge props to you today AD, you get top marks in all your SI courses.

Now go and do something nice for yourself. You've earned it.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 11:33 AM, July 8th (Monday)]


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
WorldTraveler23
New Member
Member # 36528
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, July 8th (Monday)

You have made incredible progress. That you are able to say "I will be OK without her" is a SEA change from where you were three months ago.

The boat is going to keep rocking, the roller-coaster will keep going up and down. If you can focus on your vast improvement over time, you will find the strength to know that you will continue to be strong and improve.

Great job AD.


Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2012
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 8th (Monday)

Sooo.... my question is.... is she still talking to the OM?


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1250 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, July 8th (Monday)

WEll done!!!

Congrats!!!


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, July 8th (Monday)

the only thing flying from me would be accolades.

well done


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
soveryweary
Member
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 8th (Monday)

Wow. You. Did. Awesome.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 626 | Registered: May 2011
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 8th (Monday)

The rollercoaster will continue. Lets see what she does.

Actions Actions Actions.

"Words are as foam apon a turbulent ocean. Actions are as nuggest of gold." No idea who said that. Wish it ws me.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 636 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, July 8th (Monday)

Way to go Abbondad!!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, July 8th (Monday)

So has she actually stopped seeing the OM?

Because if not then it's all bullshit. She just wants you to say yes so she has somewhere to leap before making any decisions about the OM.

Tell her to go completely NC with the OM for a month so you can think about things, and her reaction will give you a better idea of where her head is at.

BTW - you did great

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 3:41 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
Its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 8th (Monday)

Bravo Abbondad!

Well done.

You've come so very far.

Keep it up!


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 3:35 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Nice one AD - this is FANTASTIC progress on your part. Keep it up mate
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:12 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

As LonelyHusband said has she actually stopped seeing the OM?
If not then this emotional tirade is just another attempt to persuade you to accept the 'open' marriage she is addicted to.

Once you drop the divorce proceedings I suspect it will revert back to her very enjoyable double life; a husband and a lover, which is not acceptable to you.

Would you ever be able to trust this woman ever again? Even if you reconciled with her, wouldn't you always wonder if she was sneaking off to be with him from time to time? I'm afraid thats just what would happen.
Lets face it she isn't going to give him up after all these years; the affair will go underground with more devastation when you find out..


Posts: 1705 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Thank you for the praise, everyone. I am proud of myself.

I do want to address these extremely valid concerns and questions since of course they cut to the heart of this:

Sooo.... my question is.... is she still talking to the OM?

So has she actually stopped seeing the OM?
Because if not then it's all bullshit. She just wants you to say yes so she has somewhere to leap before making any decisions about the OM.

Tell her to go completely NC with the OM for a month so you can think about things, and her reaction will give you a better idea of where her head is at.

As LonelyHusband said has she actually stopped seeing the OM?
If not then this emotional tirade is just another attempt to persuade you to accept the 'open' marriage she is addicted to.

I assume that yes, she is in some sort of contact with the OM. I am going with the assumption that it's still a full-blown affair; I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As I said to her and will reiterate to you: I believe nothing she says. Her words are nice, but ultimately meaningless without action.

This is why I did not tell her I will call of or put on hold the divorce--even if she tells me it's over between them. I just wouldn't believe her. I would need constant over-the-top proactive actions by her. Twenty-four hours after her emotional tirade I have heard nothing from her.

And as I said before, I would never allow her to move back home for a long time even while she was proactively earning back my trust.

Our next mediation is coming up. I plan on attending.

As far as whether I would ever be able to trust her again even if she does everything and moves back home, well... Isn't this what everyone in reconciliation must go through? I do not know. Of I did, it would take a long, long time. Probably a couple of years.

The bottom line is that she would have to change fundamentally. Can she? Will she? I doubt it. Her issues are very deep.

So why take the chance? I guess because the eight years prior to the affair really were wonderful (other than the usual stresses of children). Once upon a time she was by-and-large a loving, devoted wife. And I say this without ros-colored glasses. By no means perfect. Nor was I. And I sure played my role in setting the stage for this affair. (Those who know the "whole story" know to what I am referring.).

And of course the children perhaps above all. If there is a possibility that she can delve deep and fix her issues while healing me, then I am willing.

But again: the divorce will proceed.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I do know this, though: I will be OK without her. I am willing to lose the marriage at this point.

I want follow-up what I said above with a question and concern.

I have seen this all over the forums--that to save the marriage you must be willing to lose it, know you would be OK without her, etc.

I am and I would be. And this concerns me. That is, I don't want to be in a lackluster marriage. I am not saying that it would be, but I know that if a real love were to re-emerge from the ashes, it would take a long time. Yet I would be willing to wait for it and work for it.

For those of you who are truly and happily reconciled yet know you would be ready to bolt if he/she did it again, does that not "cancel out" the happiness of reconciliation?

(I hope I am expressing myself clearly.)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I don't believe that it does AD. I think it makes the marriage more honest. I know that if I enter another relationship, I would not tolerate the things I was subjected to before and I have the strength and knowledge to walk away if I am. I know what I can do on my own now, I know that I don't HAVE to be with someone just to be with someone. I also know how to deal with things should infidelity come back around again. This makes me a stronger partner and gives my potential partner the message that I don't NEED to be with them, I am with them because I WANT to be with them. That is a very powerful distinction.


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Thank you, Irishlass. I understand.

My other BIG concern--my biggest, actually--is that she does all the right things prior to moving back home, she moves back home, the kids are ecstatic. Time goes by--months, maybe a year or two.

Then she does it again. I divorce her and the kids are even more shattered than they are now because if you recall, she already moved back home once before and promised them she would never leave, etc.

Very worried about this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)


MEDICAL QUESTION: Do you work with a neurologist or a a Neuropshycologist to manage the Tourettes and OCD? If you are do they know what is going on and the increased mental stress you are under? The reason I ask is often folks with these conditions can do fine in day to day life, but when something upsets the routine it cycles out of conrol 123BANG. If you are having difficulty managing these right now, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE see these Dr's, not just your Therapist, and psych. Dealing with Tourettes is a very specidific thing, and although others can venture and follow the steps to treating, you really would benefit from someone who does it day in and out.

Thank you, TN. I am and have been on various meds for TS and OCD all my life. I've basically accepted that this is just my lot, and I'm OK with it. But it's true, stress exacerbates both quite a bit--particularly the mental OCD. I do not currently have a neurologist but have been thinking of finding one. Believe it or not, it is difficult to find one who really does know his/her stuff when it comes to TS. In my past visits I have found that I know more about it than they do and had to correct them about certain misconceptions. But I will resume my search.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Then she does it again. I divorce her and the kids are even more shattered than they are now because if you recall, she already moved back home once before and promised them she would never leave, etc.

Which is why I'm pushing you for the D. At some point, years in the future, a whole lot of IC and NO "slip ups", she might be safe enough to start dating again. Besides the heartbreak for yourself, you've directly witness her lie to the kids.

What kind of a mother does that? How deep into the fog do you have to be to do that.

I sense a little slippage here. Careful with the *what ifs*. Fix you first, help the kids. She and her issues need to be the last thing on your mind.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Ok I will answer your Question about Tainting it.
NO the simple answer is NO it doesn't taint it. In fact if gives me a quiet strength and resolve.
I was as codependent as they come when we got married. He actually had always pushed me to be more into me, and to not rely on others. Well through the process of healing, and recovery I learned how to be effectively NON-Codpendent, now that's not to say that I don't slip back into old ways, but I do not allow myself to be that way and live for him.
I live for me, and love me. By doing this, I know that should he ever cheat again, I am done. I will be perfectly fine on my own, and I will be happy and able to care for myself and my kids.
Knowing this allows me to know that I have no control over what he does, should he choose to make that horrible decision again, that is all on him. Not on me. It has nothing to do with me. So I can confidently know that I give my all to us. If that gets messed up, it's on him. KWIM?

Were I in your given situation where you have asked for her to recommit and given the gift of R multiple times, there is NO WAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH - I would ever open my heart again to someone like that. Life is too damn short to spend it in the misery you have allowed to become NORMAL for you over the two past years. Trust me, when you find your new Happy, you will get it. What you had, or what you believed you had is gone, and perhaps never was.

You focus on YOU and those Awesosme Kids. The rest will come.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
rivenheart
Member
Member # 13838
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I think you did and are doing well, AD. Stay the course with the D.

Is there a chance she could change? Yes, of course. Human beings are capable of change until they die. But given the massive damage she's caused the the M and your family, and your ability to trust her, those changes would need to be profound in order to give you any chance at all at meaningful R. If she's remotely serious, you'll see obvious signs from her soon if not immediately. I mean signs that are real, significant, obvious, thoughtful, and not done grudgingly after suggestions by you. She'll be taking the initiative and acting proactively, doing stuff that shows she's stepping up and going above and beyond. Anything less than that is simply bullshit, because "above and beyond" is frankly the minimum level that gives you any chance at all for R, and then only years down the line. Trust is going to be very, very difficult to restore, and it may never return regardless of what she does. Ask yourself, do you want to be married to someone you don't/can't trust? Even for the sake of your kids, is that relationship one that you want to model for them?

I only urge you NOT to interpret little gestures, incremental improvements, and cheap talk as in any way equivalent to the profound changes and serious work she would need to do. Don't allow hopefulness to skew your vision of reality.


rivenheart ~ heartriven
Me: BW, 36 at d-day; WH, 40

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Mar 2007
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Thanks, 545, TN and Riven.

Her heart really is nowhere near where it would need to be for even a chance at real reconciliation. I have not heard from her after I made it clear that the changes must be made *immediately*.

She is either weighing her options, risk/benefit analysis, or trying to figure out how serious I am.

Whatever. I have heard these words before. The only difference is the desperation and panic in them since I actually have commenced divorce. It is all really just some fancy hoovering. Just another cycle.

I am sure when we are Emailed the draft of our MSA her ugly side will re-emerge, since she is not getting everything and anything she wants. Which will be fine, since this always clears away the clouds of hope that tend to drift back in when she is being conciliatory.

The good news is that the intervals between hope and reality have become shorter.

For example, I must admit I felt a bit "high" yesterday, thinking "Maybe, just maybe...This time....Could it be?"

But today that is gone--but not replaced with the anguished despair I would have lapsed into a few months or even weeks ago. I cried a bit this morning, but that's it. Now I am OK and looking forward to picking up my kids from camp. I love them so much--more than ever for some reason. (???)

(But at six and nine, they drive me nuts.)

What I have found helps is thinking--and this may be childish--about the new woman who will come into my life eventually. Where is she? What is she like? Kind, empathetic, trustworthy, faithful, etc. :-)

Willful fantasy, but it really does help get me through this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Oh, and Rivenheart, I just read your profile, specifically your list:

"Things I need/want for reconciliation/recovery"

I got only half way through this very reasonable list and I thought,

"Nope...No...No way would she do this...This she might do, but only for a little while, etc."

I guess unless I am so utterly wrong, this says it all, huh?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I am agreeing with the others and you, proceed with the D. If a new relationship were to develop later on, YOU would know what you can and cannot tolerate, what you are capable of should she choose to cheat again and how to cope better in that situation. Given all of that, you would also KNOW from the very start what to look for and what to do for YOU. This is a less co dependent YOU and a very wise you. This also gives you the choice to R or not down the line. Right now, the "if's" hang over your head, I get that. You are looking at them and recognize that her actions now don't come close to the actions that would bring "if's" to reality. Proceed with D, for YOU and your kids. Get YOU back first, then see if YOU really like the idea of her coming back.


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I cried a bit this morning, but that's it. Now I am OK and looking forward to picking up my kids from camp. I love them so much--more than ever for some reason. (???)
Indifference is within sight. Keep at it. Spending time with my children now IS much better. I think it's because my attitude and general demeanor is much improved now that I am off the crazy train. I didn't realize how much dealing with a unremorseful WS drained the life out of me. As you continue detaching you will be amazed at how much brighter life in general seems. If I was a light bulb then during my M, the knob was slowly turned down until I was completely off. It happened so slowly and over time that I didn't even realize it happened. Once I detached and STBX was out of the house it was like the light was turned back on slowly over time. Everything is better without the negative influence around.

Build on the positive things going on with you now. It just gets better from here on out.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

AD, wow! What a difference a few days makes! Good for you for staying strong! It sounds like you have her manipulation cycles down. It helps so much when you finally see things for what they really are. Glad also to hear that your times of despair are getting shorter and you are more quickly back at reality. THAT is a major change! I still have those moments myself, but knowing they don't bring me in to days of desapair is such a comfort to me now.

What I have found helps is thinking--and this may be childish--about the new woman who will come into my life eventually. Where is she? What is she like? Kind, empathetic, trustworthy, faithful, etc. :-)

I have the same thoughts and it helps me so much as well. Just yesterday I got some news that sent me whirling a bit, but I quickly remembered my list and thought ahead to when I have a relationship where I feel happy again. Yesterday, moments of despair; today, peace again.

Congrats on your progress, AD! Keep it up! :)

[This message edited by thenon-goddess at 8:48 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Shit! Now I am depressed and crying and angry again! My kids and their friends are all here and all I can think about are the good times when we were all so happy when things were crazy and bustling like this.

Now this normal scene has lost its happiness for me. I would be busy making dinner, happily teaming up with my then-loving wife to get the kids in bed, looking forward to our time in bed holding each other, laughing and talking and making plans...

Now I have no umph to make dinner, and all I want to do is go to sleep.

A black cloud has suddenly descended upon me and the future looks just as bleak.

I know this is just a dip in the rollercoaster and i am indulging in some selective perception about our marriage, but in the moment it's just excruciating.

All I ever really wanted in life--or what took precedence--was a family. And our family was sacred. We called our home and family "the bubble"--a sanctuary against the world. It's all been cruelly snatched away by the very person I so lovingly worked hard with to create and protect. It's just so inconceivable, so shocking. I want it back desperately. But I know it cannot be restored with her. She is gone, permanently.

Just need a little pick-me-up, even if you are just repeating yourselves endlessly. Thanks as always, friends.

I have therapy tomorrow thank god. She is wonderful.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

always look on the bright side of life brother.

The bonding you do with your children now will never be forgotten.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Pick me up You are with your kids You can order pizza or make frozen pizza, they don't care You can still do all the fun things and put your kids to bed You can go to bed and watch a good movie or read. You will fall asleep knowing you made it through another day and over another hill You are doing this for YOU and your kids


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Oh AD, my heart breaks for you. You are doing so well though my friend. I promise you. At least you are recognizing your life for the illusion it was.

It's so easy for us to get sucked back into that illusion and remember the "good times." But the truth is, that our WS didn't really get abducted by aliens and replaced by pod people. They truly were these broken shells to begin with. They were just able to hide the cracks with shiny paint for awhile.

I too get sucked back into what I thought was. What I thought we had. Who I thought we were. Then I go over my list and take a good hard look at his ACTIONS and I realize again that it wasn't real. He is not the man I thought he was. I always told myself that since I've known him since he was 14 that I knew the "real" person. Before the world jaded him. I was wrong. Even then he was hiding his brokenness. Because it existed even back then. It is who he is. And since he isn't willing to do any work to fix that brokenness, the man I thought he was or think he could be will never be. And it breaks my heart.

But I don't want to live in a bubble. I want to live in the real world, with real people. Honest, true, whole people. And so, I keep putting one foot in front of the other. And you are too.

Keep coming back here. We're all trudging with you and when you're too tired to go on, we'll pick you up and carry you for a bit.

(((HUGS))))


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
sadsmile
Member
Member # 16658
Default  Posted: 3:13 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

AD hang in there, it's not easy but you're doing great. It's ok to feel down, it's normal, not fun but part of the process. We're all rooting for you!

Posts: 163 | Registered: Oct 2007
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 5:04 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Keep fighting Ad, You know that I'm going through the exact same emotions as you.
I find myself daydreaming about my 'perfect' past and start to feel low.
I have to recognise I'm doing it and steel myself out of it otherwise I hit the vodka and cry.

The good days equal the bad days in number. Remember when there weren't any good days at all? Next month there will be more good days than bad.

You're doing the right thing and in the right direction.

It's shitter than anything else we've ever had to do. But we must.

[This message edited by allatsea at 5:04 AM, July 11th (Thursday)]


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 685 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Thanks for your sympathy, everyone. Wow, this really is a roller coaster. For example, today I feel considerably better. Sheesh.

But I did have a distressing incident with my son this morning. I found him leading through a family photo album, sobbing. He then asked to talk to me, and said, "I feel we really ned to do things as a family. I feel like the world is coming to an end."

Of course I assured him, comforted him as best I could. It may coincide with the fact that today he and his sis are going with mom until Sunday.

I guess I could put a "positive" spin on the above. He DID ask to talk to me and expressed how he was feeling, which is what I always impress upon him--don't hold it in.

God, this is hard. And for the thousandth time, I am so so angry at all these WSs who so cruelly hurt their children chasing their selfish fantasies.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

That is absolutely awesome. Expressing his feelings to you is incredible! Keep the lines of communication open.

"I feel we really ned to do things as a family. I feel like the world is coming to an end."

This is the time to explain the new family dynamic. The family is now you and them or her and them. Both of you(WW and yourself) still love and care for them, if anything more now than ever. However, there is no more Abbondad and WW. Hopefully WW will be on board to explain this and NOT put them in the middle.

He DID ask to talk to me and expressed how he was feeling, which is what I always impress upon him--don't hold it in.

It is extremely rare that a child would/could do this. If nothing else brother, that is something you need to take pride in. You done good with that.

I realize my earlier supportive comment was pithy. Hope you got the Monty Python reference. Their brand of irreverent humor took me through many a tough night. Enjoy the fact that your children were with their friends and living as "normal" a life as possible. Join in with them on their journey.

As always strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
NewMom0220
Member
Member # 39036
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Abbondad,

You are awesome and it's guys like you who love their children and love their WS even though she has killed the love that make me realize that there are better people out there in the world. I will probably always hope that my WS will become a better person, but until he does, I have to make life for me and my DS as safe as possible.

That is what you are doing right now. You still have the family bubble, it's just that she is on the outside now. I know I don't have to tell you that she has made the choices to bring all of this into your life and your children's lives....but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks.

Sending you lots of hugs and prayers and know that you are not alone.


Me: BS 36
Him: WS 37
14 month old DS
Married 5 years, together 8, DIVORCING!!! (taking forever)
DDay: 3/1/13 (4 Month PA while I was pregnant)
Sometimes all you have to do is forget what you feel and remember what you deserve.

Posts: 372 | Registered: Apr 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

Hi,

As I just posted on "Brother Allatsea's" thread, I spent much of the day with a female friend--just platonic, but one whom the WW was jealous of--who really lifted my spirits. Halfway through our time, I found myself thinking:

"What is this strange sensation? Oh my god, it's the absence of feeling like I'm going to die if I don't reconcile with my wife! I haven't even been thinking about her!"

In other words, I felt appreciated, validated, and valued. (It did not hurt that this woman showered me with compliments.). This high is still with me, and I took it to my therapist's just before, whom I haven't seen in a few weeks. She was amazed at my different demeanor.

I feel strong and determined--and angry, as the enormity of the emotional abuse I have endured is arriving with more and more clarity.

I am sure I will keep riding the rollercoaster as always--particularly as the WW just took the kids for a few days--but I feel for now a lifting in my soul.

I am going to be rereading this post--my own--in the days to come, for a reality-check and for inspiration in my darker moments.

I am going home tonight to my empty house--and I am not dreading it!

Thanks, everyone!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
little turtle
Member
Member # 15584
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

I am proud of you, Abbondad. You have come so far. Keep it up!!


Failure is success if we learn from it.

Posts: 4166 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: michigan
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Sight t/j for you, AD.
I felt appreciated, validated, and valued.

You made me remember the first time that I felt this way after my Dday. Thank you.

I had been accepted into a graduate-type school and was at an informal 'pre-school' cook-out. I hadn't invited Sultan because I wanted to go and be able to just be 'me' without him *hovering* and trying to either steal the show or sizing up his 'competition' to throw in my face months down the road. Anyway.

I got involved in a conversation with one of the professors who teaches Tax. And just a heads-up for you...in my marriage, I had kinda 'stepped back' and let Sultan handle all matters financial because he always dismissed my opinion on the subject. So I'm talking to this prof. And...OMG. She was actually LISTENING to me and considering my viewpoint! Asking me questions and whatnot.

She didn't get any type of *look* that signified that I was a moron. She didn't tell me that she was going to divorce me if I didn't stop saying what I was saying.
To be *heard* and have someone listen to me? It.Was.Amazing.

It was sooooo freaking nice to have a real conversation. Anyway. Just wanted to thank you because your words brought back that memory for me.

Now a slight 2x4.
Platonic. Really? Baloney. You need to check yourself. WW is jealous of said platonic friend. Platonic friend 'showers' you with compliments.....
Dude. Just call a spade a spade. And don't involve you platonic friend, who really doesn't seem that she wants to be so platonic, in your drama until that drama is in your rear-view mirror.

Other than all of that.....chin up and keep putting one foot in front of the other.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, July 12th (Friday)

I think Abbondad can have a platonic female friend if he wants one.

I have a platonic male friend. He listens, he cares, he validates me. I do the same for him.

We ride bikes together once a week. That is pretty much our only interaction with each other.

It's like a second therapy session each week. We check in with each other, tell stories about what has been going on in our lives, ask for feedback, offer condolences, "wow, that sucks" and other such stuff.

Hug at the end, and that's it.

We both have very good boundaries. I made it clear I am not dating until I'm divorced, and he's not really my "type" and he made it clear that I'm definitely not his "type" since he is really attracted to girly-girls and I am definitely not one. We do not flirt with each other but we do offer sincere, honest, and very personal emotional support to each other.

It works for me because I have always had male friends as best friends my whole life. That, and I'm trustworthy and a woman of integrity and I don't send mixed signals or entertain ideas of "what if" we were dating.

We ARE JUST FRIENDS.

But, Abbondad, if you don't keep good boundaries you could ruin a good friendship. Think about it and act accordingly.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Hi, Everyone,

Well, it's five days after my STBXWW's emotional tirade, and no action whatsoever. So it was just fancy hoovering after all, manipulative self pity designed to get me to back off the divorce so she can continue cake-eating.

Last night she texted me about the kids (DD drawing pictures of our family all frowning was "normal" and "fine" and that WE are "wonderful parents"). Then she wanted to text about the divorce--the house finances, CS, etc. Proof positive that she would rather divorce than perform any work toward reconciliation and repairing the damage she has done to our family. (She also declined therapy.)

I evaded any discussion about the divorce--I don't want to talk about it except in mediation--and got off the phone.

I have to admit that I had still been holding that kernel of hope in my hand since her emotional words the other day, but I guess once she realized that I meant it when I said I needed to see immediate and protracted proactive actions from her to back up her words, she just didn't have it in her.

So nothing's changed after all. Not one damned thing. I am upset, but still very proud of myself that I did not cave to her tears and pretty words like I used to.

Thanks for your support...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Keep coming back here. We're all trudging with you and when you're too tired to go on, we'll pick you up and carry you for a bit.

Thank you, CM. This is moving and beautifully expressed. All of you have indeed been carrying me through this since the beginning.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Now you are faced with basically 3 days to do what you want. Do something fun with it. Go with friends and family to a good meal, put yourself around people who know you are worthy. Continue to allow them to bolster you. This will help you to continue to get stronger.

DO NOT spend this time alone at home, thinking on the good times, and what coulda shoulda been. That isn't an option. Do falsley trick yourself into feeling down.

Enjoy your time. You are doing well. Keep it up.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Hi,

I've been keeping myself busy, but I am in terrible pain of missing my children. They have only been with her three days and are not coming home until tomorrow. How am I going to bear this for years to come?

It feels primal, the pain. I feel like a father whose children have been abducted or are lost. They are only nine and six and i just know they miss me so much. I crave to protect them but cannot. This pain is excruciating.

Please tell me THIS gets better.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
soveryweary
Member
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Your posts touch me so deeply. I feel for you like you are my son going through this.
I wish I could envelop you in a mom hug and tell you it will all be all right. I know you will one day feel happy and whole.
Take care.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 626 | Registered: May 2011
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

the pain. I feel like a father whose children have been abducted or are lost.

This "pain" exists only in your mind.

In reality, your children are with their mother and will be returning to you on Sunday.

Now it's up to you how you spend your time.
A) You can sit and fret, "poor me, I'm alone and in pain."
B) You can use the time wisely, and in any manner that improves your life. You can go online and research and plan a fun day of activities for your children. You can go out and exercise. You can improve your lesson plans for when you return to teaching next term. You can head over to the "Just Found Out Forum" and offer support and insight to others (not just Brother AAS) who are in the early stages of recovery.

The choice is yours.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

AD I will tell you this. Yes it does get better. In a way you just get more used to it. It never stops completely but you do find a way to come to terms with it.

Not being with my kids each and every day was by miles the hardest and longest part of this pain. I completely understand when you describe it as primal - it's a very very deep pain. One that really exceeds all others.

But I guess I found my way through two things. First I made the time I did have with them really count. I don't know about others but in a marriage you can end up going along prioritising the wrong things - work, domestics etc. I simplified and when I had the kids I was with them 100%. The bond that created is very solid.

Then when I didn't have them I did stuff for me. I also made that time count. Wasn't big stuff - it could be painting my bedroom or seeing friends. Whatever but make it count.

Slowly I got used to a different pattern of life. Slowly, slowly but I am getting there. I still miss my kids and there are times when it is very hard . But I know that the time I have with them is gold and that makes a big difference.

Like all of this you will move through stages and phases. It will get better. Just give them the best of you all of the time and you will reap the benefits.

V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Everyone,

She's finally done it: she's at the POS's house right now with my children. They have never met him and my son knows this is the man to whom my wife sent a pic of her tits and is the reason I am divorcing her. I am freaking out. We are not even divorced. I knew this day would come, but I am filled with helpless fury and anguish.

Please advise....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

AD, no advice...I have not had to deal with this myself, so I can only imagine - but, big hugs to you.

Oh, and I lied, one bit of advice, be prepared to talk with your kids when they get home. I know they are going to have questions and feelings about this, so play that script in your mind so you are not thrown off when they approach the subject.

Wishing you peace...


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Just talked to my son on the phone to say goodnight. (They'd returned to my WW's apartment from the POS's.)

He was subdued and nervous, and said with even more feeling than ever, "I love you, Daddy. I miss you so much."

He knows where he'd just been.

I am livid, but I knew this day would come, and I guess I really can't do anything about it.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

(((((Abbondad and littles)))))

I feel for you Abbondad.

Everyone in your family is adjusting to the new reality. Your STBXWW has made her choice loud and clear. She isn't going to dump POS and try to come back to you. She isn't going to do the work. Screaming from the rooftop "IT'S OVER" couldn't come through more clearly.

You are hearing your son's emotions about this too. He is hurting and confused. And he loves you so, so much.

So I hope that along with the anguish you must be feeling that you can also feel a little relief knowing the real finality that is happening right now.

Please take care of you. Exercise, call a friend, you know the list of things to do to help you with your emotions, right? Just do some of those things. It may not prevent a melt down but it will help you recover sooner.

And please, Lawyer Up. Now is the time to get as much custody as you possibly can. Don't delay.

[This message edited by heartbroken_kk at 8:23 PM, July 13th (Saturday)]


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Welcome to my world brother. My xWW was so sure that she would win custody that she felt free to date POSER(see betrayed mens forums) and introduce my son to him. I'll say this once. Document everything. Send her a text or an e-mail explaining how it is not in your children's best interests to be introduced to other "father figures" in such a difficult time of transition. Document her response. Hell, from now on, ALL contact needs to be text or E-mail only.

Don't react to her directly. No more emotions to or for her. VAR every encounter. If that is not possible, have a witness there. She is going to push every button she spent years installing to drive you insane. Don't let her. Your best friends have become the 180 and N/C. Make no mistake, she is out for blood.

Just a question re: your "date". It was a "friend" of your WW right? Was it possibly a set up? No-one connected to her is "safe".

End it now. No more mediation. Straight to litigation.

Strength brother, this is just the beginning.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

They have never met him and my son knows this is the man to whom my wife sent a pic of her tits and is the reason I am divorcing her.

This will become a key piece of evidence. Make sure it is discussed with his IC.

Crap, I'm sorry brother. This is it's own special hell. At least she is out of your house.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

AD

I'm sorry for what you are going through. One thing to be aware of..please don't let your children feel responsible for your feelings regarding their visit to OM.

Let me say that your feeling are absolutely valid and justified, but children are children. They will adapt our of necessity to whatever situation they are thrown into.

I'm sure seeing their mom with OM is confusing and upsetting. Especially after the text your son found. But this is your chance to be their safe place to land. If they bring up their visit to OM make sure your reaction doesn't make them feel like THEY have done something wrong by being there. Children tend to blame themselves even when we don't intend for them to feel that way.

You will get through this because you choose to . Let go of what you can't control and decide to thrive for you and your children. Advice? You decide what happens next.


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

on top of what I said, please read Grace's post. I apologize for my forthrightness in attempting to secure custody for you. please, please keep your kids for most in your thoughts and actions. your STBXWW sure isn't. you need to be their safe place.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

Abb,
I know what you're feeling. It's crappy and you are powerless to do anything about it.

This should further convince you that you are doing the right thing and that her words were hollow with no sign of change at all.

The advice given thus far is spot on; push forward, be the crutch and stability your kids need and properly implement the 180. You aren't at the moment and it's hurting you.

Email and text only. Change the locks on the doors and don't let her in to treat it as her house. She's cake eating when she does that.

I know you wanted to stay civil for the kids and you can still do that but not to the extent you have been.

At least your kids aren't living with pos and Ww!

Deep breath and push

[This message edited by allatsea at 1:25 AM, July 14th (Sunday)]


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 685 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

So sorry... I guess that removes any lingering doubt about R.

Your job now is to figure out how to make this okay for your kids. How much harder a task could you have been set?

I'm not sure of the answer, but I'm pretty sure it's not discussing with your kids how awful the guy is. He's going to be a part of their lives now (for a while, at least) and you need to help them be okay with that without condoning the nasty photo your son saw. The worse you make it for them, the worse it will be for them. Kids first. And I'm not trying to minimize your pain. What a nightmare. It ticks me off that OW ever "liked" a facebook photo of my DS. Felt really invasive. I cannot imagine what you are going through but just trying to help you put the focus where it belongs. Take care and good luck.


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1471 | Registered: Nov 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

Thank you, everyone. I am not going for custody. We both agree that we want joint 50/50. I hope we can work toward agreeing on other things in mediation. We shall see.

STBXWW just texted and asked, essentially, if I am still going forward with divorce. I replied that I am--and then burst into stupid tears.

So hard... But I know I'm doing the right thing.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

Just a question re: your "date". It was a "friend" of your WW right? Was it possibly a set up? No-one connected to her is "safe".

No, no set up. They don't even know each other. It's just that the STBXWW was aware that I was friendly with her. She just can't abide the thought of me being with someone else... WTF?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Hi,

I am going to ask a basic, obvious question whose answer has been posted so many times in so many ways. But I will ask it anyway, just cuz I need to hear it again today:

Tell me yet again that you were in excruciating pain, were in love with your spouse despite the horrors visited upon you and your children, were convinced that you will never feel better and would be genuinely happy after divorce, but you did it anyway... And now you are happy.

(Thank you so much for being here for me. I couldn't have done this without all of you.)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

It will get better. I look back and wonder WTF was wrong with me that I hung on for 8 extra years of abuse, lies, manipulations,and bully behavior.

My loyalty went out of control. I was the only one being loyal, btw, and wouldn't you know that was the button he pushed EVERY time to get me back in line. See, he installed the buttons.

Buddy.....stop mediation. Many of us have been there with a person like your wife, and we see the train wreck coming.

Yo may want to reconsider 50/50 to something like 65/35 your favor. That way if she decides to move the kids stay with you.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 1:17 PM, July 14th (Sunday)]


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

AD,

Tell us what YOU think. Do you think it is possible to get better?

What would you tell your BFF if they were asking you the same question?

Feelings will come and go over time. Love is a choice. Will you continue to choose to love a woman that has brought grief into the lives of your children?

Will you choose to let her go? Not just legally and physically, but in your heart?

I understand that it's hard to let go of the dream, But there is more than one dream available to you in life. You can hang onto the idea that it is not THE dream that you've always had, but that will always keep you from moving forward.

Mourn the past but let it go. Don't let your life be just about what happens to you. Like any long term goal, make the active choice to be ok.


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
phmh
Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Tell me yet again that you were in excruciating pain, were in love with your spouse despite the horrors visited upon you and your children, were convinced that you will never feel better and would be genuinely happy after divorce, but you did it anyway... And now you are happy.

I could not believe the pain I was in. I seriously contemplated suicide. I thought my life was over. I loved him so much. I kept playing love songs and thinking that it applied to us -- if only XWH would pull his head out his ass he'd see how wonderful we were. I thought we were best friends. Soulmates. I was willing to debase myself and throw away my self-respect to try to save the marriage. People told me I'd get better but I didn't believe it. Not me -- our love was special. I loved him more than people further along than me on the path loved their spouses. They just didn't understand. I'd be ruined and broken and just exist, not really live, because my one true love decided he didn't want me.

And you know what? I am now ridiculously happy. Happier than I ever was with XWH. My life is amazing, and my inner peace and happiness is reflected on the outside. Friends and acquaintances tell me all the time how happy I look, and how they're so pleased with the way things have turned out for me, and strangers stop me on the street to tell me how beautiful I am or how my smile has brightened their day. It's just surreal. That never happened when I was with XWH, and I was younger and hotter then.

I promise you that life gets so much better. I know you can't see it now. I used to look at roadkill and be jealous that those animals no longer had to suffer like I was. It can be hard for me to remember that time, even though it was only last year, because it's so great now. You need to work through this, cut ties as much as possible, and concentrate on making your life the best it can be. It gets better.


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3359 | Registered: Dec 2011
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Tell me yet again that you were in excruciating pain, were in love with your spouse despite the horrors visited upon you and your children, were convinced that you will never feel better and would be genuinely happy after divorce, but you did it anyway... And now you are happy.

Yes, yes, and almost yes.

I was completely devastated, destroyed. I literally cried EVERY day and visited my IC twice a week sometimes. I was so wrapped up in the drama of it all and the dream. It started to change when I focused on the reality. I was sick too...sick for loving and wanting a man in my life who treated me that way. I did not see it when I was living in it, but the relationship was sick. It was never the fairy tale dream I had created. When I let go of that, it got easier... I am not D yet, but he is gone now and I am happy! Relieved! Realizing that it doesn't matter if I never find another man (it would be. Ice, but not necessary) because it can be pretty damn great to....just be. There doesn't have to be drama. There doesn't have to be fighting. There doesn't have to be some dream to attain. I have no idea what will happen in the future, but right now, today, I am fine and happy and able to get along just fine without my husband by my side. I stopped focussing on the dream and focused on reality. Do not let yourself go down that rabbit hole. Without a doubt, you WILL be OKAY. You WILL be HAPPY eventually. And you WILL SURVIVE.

[This message edited by thenon-goddess at 4:59 PM, July 14th (Sunday)]


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Phmh and thenon,

Thank you so much for your detailed responses. They really do help so much when I'm in the trenches as I am. I know I'm not special or unique, but sometimes I just need to hear it--again and again...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Feelings will come and go over time. Love is a choice. Will you continue to choose to love a woman that has brought grief into the lives of your children?

And thank you too, Grace. It's hard to feel like I have a choice in my feelings. They are what they are. However, I am acting with my head, not with my feelings, which I realize are not based in reality. My assumption and hope is that my feelings will catch up with my head.

But I do believe I am getting better. Anger is beginning to rear its head more and more, edging out feelings of longing based in an unrealistic perspective of the marriage. I don't want to hate her in the long run, but it does help for now.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

I don't understand your reasoning for wanting 50/50 custody, Abbondad. Clearly you are the better parent. Why do you want your kids to be with her so much, and why are you not going to bat for becoming the custodial parent?

I'm sorry if this is insensitive, but I don't get it.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, July 15th (Monday)

I just had to answer your question, even though the thread has moved on. Four years from D-Day. I'd been with him for 28 YEARS. Two amazing children. We'd been througn everything together and sometimes we had been so close we'd dream the same thing. I had a complete emotional breakdown when he said he was in love with someone else. And as soon as I'd accepted that it was over between us I started living the most incredible life of inspiration, passion and joy. The wonderful man I met afterwards has since become very ill and suffered a life-threatening heart complaint, but the feelings I have for him go deeper and farther than anything I had with WH. It just took perspective and time to see it. There are worlds of possibility and joy beyond this hard time.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I agree..I don't understand why you're not going for full custody.

This woman is not the mommy she was years ago. This is the mom who was careless enough that her 9 year old son found texts & naked pics of his mommy..that she sent to OM..this is the mom who took your kids to this man's house and exposed them to him..and your DS is well aware that this man helped destroy his family. Your WW has proven she doesn't give a shit about these kids. She loves them...but she is a shitty mother. The damage she has caused/is causing your kids may last the rest of their lives. If you have full custody,you have more control over your children's lives...better yet..she has LESS control.

What will happen when your DS refuses to be nice/accept the OM? Because he will. He saw the pic..read the texts..he knows this man is not a good man. And,as he gets older,he will understand what mommy and OM did. He will not be ok with their relationship. How will your WW react to that? Will she get angry with him? Will she see him less and less because having him around her and OM ruins their fantasy? Will she take his feelings seriously and help him through this? Honestly, I think she will either attempt to force your DS to like him..and cause him more pain and confusion..or she will abandon him.

You need to protect these kids from their mother. She is NOT a good mom. She may have been before,but the last few years and her recent actions have proven she will shit on anyone to get what she feels she deserves...and that certainly includes the kids(it sure has so far..no?).

I do think you're doing really well. You sound stronger. Keep your chin up.


(((((AD)))))


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
little turtle
Member
Member # 15584
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Without typing my whole story... it really does get better. I truly believed things would work out with XH. I was devestated when they didn't, time after time after time. When I finally decided I was done, it was so easy to move on. A weight was off my shoulders. I could breathe. I could live my life however I wanted.

Looking back, wtf was I thinking? I am happy now. I have friends who love me. I have a partner who adores me and my children. I have tremendous support from my family.

Keep moving forward.


Failure is success if we learn from it.

Posts: 4166 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: michigan
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Hoovering has resumed...STBXWW pulled up in the driveway next to me, got in, tears, I love you's, you smell good, I still believe we will get back together after the divorce....

I bit my tongue and didn't engage, but I'm sorry--I burst into tears when she told me our DS keeps saying he wants our family back together.

And to make matters worse, I am curled up in crippling back pain!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
lostmommy
Member
Member # 33440
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, July 15th (Monday)

She got in your car? Why? The pain will continue until you stop allowing it. (((AD))) Be strong. She has no right to keep doing this to you, but she will continue to do it for as long as you allow it, I'm sorry to say.


Me (BS): 32, Mommy to J: 2 1/2 Divorced: 4/10/13
Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere, and sometimes, in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself

Posts: 485 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: NY
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I agree..I don't understand why you're not going for full custody.

I do not want this to go through the courts, I want them to be with their mother whom they love, and I want to ultimately be in an amicable cooparenting relationship. Thank you as always for your concern. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. Her actions repulse me, but they need their mom. I'm sorry if this seems illogical or willfully stupid on my part.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, July 15th (Monday)

great job not engaging. gosh she is good at pushing your buttons.

N/C= no new hurt. you need to get a temporary custody arrangement set up. that way the only time you see her is at the exchange. then do the exchange in a public area, or with someone you trust. that should help alleviate some of the issues.

of course she is using your son as a tool against you. just wait till she does it directly.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Sorry, AD. Man, she is really pulling out all the stops right now, isn't she? She is manipulative as hell and sounding not very stable right now. I am glad to know that your kids feel so comfortable with you, because I am doubtful of her capacity to parent with any sort of compassion right now. She is so wrapped up in her selfish-self. Good job not engaging.

Hope your back feels better (hopefully its not kidneys? That's the only crippling back pain I've had...)


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, July 15th (Monday)

No..I get it. I just really worry about the kids..as do you,of course. No matter what you do,it's painful and unfair to everyone.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Hi, Friends,

The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward staying in our family home. The kids are just SO happy to be here. All their friends, a great neighborhood, great schools.

It would be such a shame to move. Now that it's just me and the kids, I don't miss my STBXWW.

I crunched the numbers and it is doable if i pinch pennies and with WW paying CS and additional money toward mortgage, utilities, even if its not much. It can be done. I will be unable to put away anything into savings, but it's a small price to pay.

The only problem, then, is of course, the WW. She still bops in and out, since after all, it is "her house" too.

If I get the house in our MSA, then she can't do this any more, right? Even if she's on the mortgage? What is that called? First rights of refusal? She will be livid, but so what. Nothing new.

And if she complains that she can't get her own mortgage, well, I can offer to buy her out, right? Is that called a "quit claim deed"? And I can just give her half the current equity less the realtors commission.

Or maybe this is unrealistic for various reasons? Mostly the crazy NPD?

Thoughts?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Hey abbondad...
in regards to the house...
ex-shat left within a week of D-day and showed no signs of living here again...so, I changed the locks. He was mad, threw a mantrum about it, demanded a key. I told him to take me to court to get a key. He didn't.

D was finalized last november and his name is still on the mortgage. I have two years to refinance. He has no rights to this house. Even if I end up selling it, he has no rights to the proceeds. And no, he can't go out and buy a house right now like he wants...not. my. problem. I have to look out for myself and the wellbeing of my child and I determined (like you) that it was best if I made a go at keeping the marital home.



"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4628 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Right of first refusal has to do with custody. It means if it's her parenting time and she cannot be watching the kids (like has to work or wants to go out), she has to ask you if you want to watch them before getting daycare, a sitter, leaving them with OM, etc.. It usually has a time limit, like 2 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours, etc. And then it would work both ways, meaning if you need to leave the kids for X amount of time, you have to ask her first before leaving them with someone else (a girlfriend, mom, daycare, etc).

I tried very hard to get this in at mediation, but STBX refused it, and we couldn't agree. Now I have MOW watching the kids while he works, and I'm livid.. Praying I get it in court in about 2 weeks..

I think what you want is "exclusive use" of the home. That would keep her out, and you could change the locks. I would recommend a temporary hearing ASAP to set up visitation and child support and settle the house dispute.. My former crappy lawyer never did that for me, so I've been struggling without any rules or guidelines since November. She should NOT be coming over whenever she pleases, so I would get that done as soon as possible. Considering she has already moved out, I don't think you will have any trouble..

Hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 3:41 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

In my state, I had to have a hearing to get temp possession of the home. The judge put restraining orders on us (usual in my state) and that kept him from going in the house.

Fast forward to divorce, I get the house and all the equity. I never have to refinance as long as I am never late. My atty told me that the judge would not go for this, so we worked out a deal where XWH gets to claim 1 child on taxes in exchange for me never having to refi.

Btw, now that we've been D nearly away, XWH is pulling his head out of his ass and realizes he is having a hell of a time buying a home while he is attached to this mtg. OH WELL. Not. my. problem.

I suggest you quickly pull your wits about you and get everything you want while ur WS is all over the page.

I didn't move, btw because the kids needed to stay where they were used to being, and I just didn't have it in me to pack up a home.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2120 | Registered: Jan 2012
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 3:45 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

In my state, SC, here are the standard restraining orders and visitation schedule:

Also, be sure you ask for every other Halloween if you want to make sure you get to go trick or treating -- if that's something you want to do.


http://www.atkinssc.com/resourcefiles/STANDARDVISITATION.pdf


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2120 | Registered: Jan 2012
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)


I've been keeping myself busy, but I am in terrible pain of missing my children. They have only been with her three days and are not coming home until tomorrow. How am I going to bear this for years to come?

It feels primal, the pain. I feel like a father whose children have been abducted or are lost. They are only nine and six and i just know they miss me so much. I crave to protect them but cannot. This pain is excruciating.

Please tell me THIS gets better.

...not with 50/50 custody it doesn't get better. It will get worse. If you are writhing in pain because you know your children miss you so much, why aren't you fighting for them? ...because they need their mommy more? How does that make sense?


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 944 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Dad - start to think strategy and A-Game here as you work through this.

Your wife is NOT a good influence on your children.

Facts in evidence:
Text seen by your son
First opportunity she has with children, she's got them with OM.
First priority is not her children, or her family.

50/50 custody is NOT in your children's best interest. Yes they need their mother. 50/50 will not give that to them. They will be around the woman currently 'doing' another man and that is her first and only priority - not her children.

Get 65/35 custody with you having all legal decision making on behalf of your children. The text ought to seal the deal with your judge.

Should she show signs of being a mother first priority instead of OM's girlfriend, you can change the custody agreement.

But until then, think in the best interests of your children, GIVEN THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES.


Posts: 150 | Registered: Feb 2013
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Another thought

Early sexualization of sons leads them to serious confidence issues, and preoccupation with sexuality rather than sports, play, development of social skills, etc.

This will ruin them for the rest of their lives.

Right now, I know a woman who did 50/50 custody thinking that would force her husband to be a father.

Two of her three sons have served time in prison with one of them right now dodging a warrant (that's the youngest). The middle child has now gone through his first divorce because he was not actively taking care of his family/participating. He was very much like his dad.

The woman is now training a guard dog because that youngest son who is out dodging a warrant is very likely to come in and steal anything he can to perpetuate his lifestyle.

Can you imagine NOT wanting your child to even visit?

Your STBX is NOT a good influence on your children. You can't make her be a good mother and put her children first, anymore than you could make her be a good and faithful wife.

Take off the rose colored glasses here! You went through months of misery to come to the realization to move forward on behalf of your family.

Don't go just half measures here.

File.

Get full custody with limited visitation until she gets through the mess she feels like she wants to make of her life. Then it can be renegotiated.


Posts: 150 | Registered: Feb 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

What are the rules in your state for 50/50, and the kids ability to choose where they go. Your son is going to soon be old enough to make some of his own decisions, and may voice that he isn't comfortable going to mom's, when does he get a say in it? If you have 60/40 or Primary custody does that give you the ability to say "son says he isn't up to coming over today, so he's going to stay with me"? Or does the 50/50 give you that? Your daughter is a few years away from that ability to make those judgements, and will most likely follow suit from what her big brother does.

Remeber though that your wife in her present state of mind, and level of functioning is not a good mom, she isn't putting the kids, first, second or even third. That being said is it ok for them to spend time with her if she is so blatantly going to place them lower on her priority list?
Just some food for thought.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Weatherly
Member
Member # 18222
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Tell me yet again that you were in excruciating pain, were in love with your spouse despite the horrors visited upon you and your children, were convinced that you will never feel better and would be genuinely happy after divorce, but you did it anyway... And now you are happy

I know the thread has moved on, but I will respond to this. I was absolutely positive I was in love with my X. I was sure I was happy with our life, in spite of all the things he'd done to us. If he would just act like the man I knew he could be, we'd be fine.

I kicked him out in 2008. He is still EXACTLY who he showed me he was in those horrible years. He is emotionally abusive to our kids. I tried to stay in my home and budgeted down to the penny, and as long as he paid child support, I would be fine. He lost his job shortly afterwards and is happy to let flavor of the week pay for him. He gets jobs, making less than ever, keeps them for a short time, and sometimes I get the full amount for CS, more often I get $10/week and the judge allows this because it "shows he is trying", and even more often I get nothing at all. The more distance I get from him, the more I realize, THIS is the man he is. Those years where he was decent were an act. He's been this horrible person for almost a decade now.

The first couple years were horrendous, and I was devastated. He walked in and caught me in the middle of writing my suicide note on the bathroom mirror with an eye liner pencil. There were days I laid in bed and cried until I was sure I was dehydrated. There were days I passed out when I stood up because I hadn't eaten in who knows how long. There were days I prayed to die. I cannot tell you how many times I feared I was the problem, I was a failure, I would never be happy again, I would never be loved again. I tried to be nice to him, I tried to do the "right" thing. I tried to make sure the kids got time with the father they loved.

Eventually, I could pretend things were fine again, even though they weren't. I enjoyed picking out my own car without his input. I loved that the kids rushed to me to tell me things, and I enjoyed having some weekend time without them so I could do things I enjoyed. I threw myself into school, sometimes taking 7 or 8 classes at a time and getting good grades. I still tried to make sure the kids had a relationship with their father. We did lose the house, but, ended up in a house they loved even more.

Today is my 1st anniversary to my new husband. And, I have no idea what made me think X was so amazing. I have no idea how i put up with his crap for so long. I'm ashamed I was ever that weak. The boys have gotten older, and we've had to move again, but, they kept the old friends and made new ones. We plan to stay put now for awhile.

And, I'm so glad I didn't let him get 50/50, I wish I hadn't tried so hard to facilitate their relationship, because, now, they are trophies for him. They eat too much, and they grow too fast and they are too expensive, and he doesn't have the gas money to take them to soccer practice. But, you can be damn sure that those 1/4 of the games he makes it too, he makes sure to tell everyone how they get their soccer skills from him. He makes sure to tell people he's their father, because everyone assumes my new husband is, because new H is involved, and X isn't. He always points out that new H isn't their dad. He doesn't want to buy them new clothes but he puffs up with pride when somebody notices the younger one is 6 inches taller than every other kid his age. He involves the kids in his relationships from day one because he says he doesn't want to get attached to somebody and then find out later the kids hate her and he have to break up with her. They've hated his last 3 girlfriends, and when they say so, he tells them he doesn't care, why don't they want him to be happy.

We have provided a stable home, we've provided for all their needs, I have a husband who would love to adopt the kids. But, my generosity in allowing them into his white trash hell hole has come back to bite me. I can't even imagine how it would have backfired if we had tried 50/50.

So, my long drawn out reply was to point out some similarities.
*Yes, I was devastated and heart broken
*I was going to keep my house too, because I was counting on someone who showed me they couldn't be counted on.
*I was going to be the good parents, who was going to make sure her kids spent time with the other parent because they loved him.

So, to follow up those similarities
*It got SO much better than I ever dreamed. (I literally said to my husband last night "I didn't even know this was something to hope for. I didn't know this was possible. it was possible to be this happy.")

*Please, don't count on her. Count on yourself, budget for YOUR income. Save the rest. If she follows through, they take the kids to Disney, or buy them cars when they turn 16, or help pay for college. But, don't count on it. She's shown you who she is.

*Think of the future. It will be easier to draw things up one way now, than to change it later. If you go for full custody, and later decide it was a mistake, you can change that more easily that removing custody in the future. You say you can't move because kids/friends/home/stability. But, I'm an adult and can't imagine trading back and forth every week. How is that stable in any way? It doesn't seem like the kids have two homes, it seems more like they have no home. I know people make it work, but, I fail to see how that can be good for the kids.


Me-29,Two boys, 10 and 8

It will all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end

Happily remarried to a wonderful man (Aussie). I think I found the right guy and the right finger this time.


Posts: 4485 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Broken people that don't get help remain broken. I have 50/50 custody as well and I "thought" my STBXW was a great Mother. It's been almost 1 month since we officially S for the 1 year waiting period before D can be final and in 4 weeks I already regret not pushing for more custody. In my case 50/50 was about the only thing she asked for. I got EVERYTHING else I wanted in the agreement.

Being the responsible parent means we pick up the slack during our 50%. Just 1 month in and I already see negative things like her letting the kids stay up way to late at night. So by the time they get to my house on Friday for my week they have a huge sleep deficit that takes them almost the entire week to bounce back from. My son had a meltdown in daycare the other day because he was tired. I can't do things in the evenings with them because I HAVE to get them home and in the bed so they can get enough sleep. I had a discussion with STBX about this yesterday. Seh agreed to get them in the bed sooner. I will believe it when I get good night phones calls around 7:30 or 8:00pm instead of 10:00pm.

Exhibit 2: She said she will call them every morning and every night. That lasted for 2 weeks. Now it's sporadic when it's my time to keep them. It's like she is enjoying her freedom and getting her "do over". That's fine by me because I don't have to hear her voice on the phone and the kids don't even ask if they don't talk to her anymore.

Exhibit 3: She lets them watch TV and play video games all the time when they are with her. It takes me at least 2 days to get them back to normal when they come to my house. They think they should be able to do whatever they want. STBX used to tell me they needed to read some books and practice writing but that seems to have gone out the window at her house. However I have been doing that and going over things they will be learning in school next year.

In the big scheme of things I consider these issues minor that I can counteract but I expect things to go down hill that much faster as STBX shrugs off the guilt and goes right back to black hole filling behavior. She has refused to develop adequate coping skills for her life. I really expect things to get worse once she finds a new man. The selfishness will ramp up considerably then.

My point is do what you feel is best concerning custody AD but don't expect much of anything from your STBXWW once the D is final. If they are broken now and can't fix themselves they will likely remain broken after the D and continue to delude themselves, blamshift, and avoid taking responsibility until they hit some kind of bottom. Even when they hit bottom it doesn't mean they will finally get it and clean up their act. Focus on making sure your kids have a stable home and parent that does provide boundaries for them and teaches them to be responsible. They will have enough to deal with when they are with your STBXW. The D isn't going to wake her up or push her to become better. It will free her to go even further in the wrong direction if she is inclined to do that.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:18 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Thank you for,your detailed comments and advice. I take them seriously as always.

My STBXWW just texted me that is going to email me her ideas "regarding mediation...in what she believes is in the best interests of the children".

I predict a list of selfish, unreasonable demands, e.g., that she will be forced to work to pay CS and therefore not be able to spend as much time with them as I do.

And god save me from her NPD wrath if I disagree, object to, take issue with, or say "no" to any of them. I will then be accused of not looking out for the children's best interests.

Remember yesterday, the sweet nurturing persona? Here comes the other one...cycle cycle...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

What a rollercoaster.
Keep the kids first and foremost as you have been, Abbondad. If her "thoughts" are out of line with what you believe is best for the kids, stand your ground.

Continued strength to you.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25337 | Registered: Aug 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Here is her Email. Comments? (Please note the very last line. She does not want to be forced by law to pay for anything. She wants to dictate the rules.)

Hi Abbondad,

Here are the options as I see it now for our mediation and the difficulties inherent in my employment opportunities.

1. I am currently on a waiting list for a contract job with the school system. This employment would bring a salary of $50,000 without health insurance or benefits as well as several other contract positions offering similar salaries.

2. For the past two months, I have applied to several jobs outside of my industry but have not had successful offers. I am still actively pursuing my interest in getting certified as an Addiction Counselor with the hopes of securing a more meaningful job that allows me more time with the children.

3. I can work a regional high pressure operations job requiring 55-60 hours of work each week and associated travel (mostly in Florida) with typical expense layouts, wear & tear on the car, and some reimbursement for these expenses. This is not ideal, however, it is a current offer and as you are aware I have basic expenses/health insurance that I must be able to afford. I won't really know the extent of my travel requirements as the job is in a growth phase. To start with I anticipate at least 4 nights a week being away from home.

In order for me to be successful in the Regional Operations job, I will need your continued support, flexibility and cooperation. Then I can afford to pay the amount needed to support the home in addition to my own place and associated expenses for the next school year or as long as I have this Regional Operations job. Please let me know what that amount is. I want a 50-50 legal child sharing arrangement. During my travel days, I would like the kids remain with you, the neighbors or J. as baby sitters at this time. I would like the children most weekends if I am to be away from them the majority of the week.

What I am not comfortable with is accepting a high pressure, regional job wrought with industry instability, while giving up my time with the children in order to pay for our home expenses, my apartment, and palimony. Given our situation, I think it is logical to work out a flexible mediation agreement between the two of us as I have outlined above. If it's your continued desire to have this agreement be governed by the letter of the law as you have previously stated, please let me know.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Here is her Email. Comments? (Please note the very last line. She does not want to be forced by law to pay for anything. She wants to dictate the rules.)
AD, good for you on picking up on this right away.

From one divorced BS to another- get it in writing.
Keep reminding yourself that if it isnt in writing, it isn't enforceable. That basically means you'd be dancing to her tune for the rest of the time your kids are minors (and possibly beyond).

Second, doesn't your WW have a high paying job at the moment? In other words, the first two items on her list are not even a reality and should not be at the top of your list of things to worry about. Her employment is her issue.

Were I you, I'd get your MSA/divorce finalized with support fixed in at the HIGHEST amount possible. If she wants to take a large pay cut in the future, you and the kids wont be screwed (yet again) by that decision.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Second, doesn't your WW have a high paying job at the moment?

No, she lost that job. But she does have on the table an active offer for another high-paying job. What she is saying is that she doesn't want to take it since she then won't have 50/50 with the kids as the job requires so much travel.

Karma? Sort of?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

AD, don't respond to this mess. She is trying to pull strings...let it go and let her deal with her life. Plan your ideal position (and by ideal, I mean ideal for you and the kids) and plan your fallback position. Go to mediation and mediate from your ideal and see what happens.

Ex-shat was similar to this...except he was planning how I should proceed in my life so that it was the greatest benefit to *him*. Fuckthatshit.

I made a plan for my life as to how I ideally wanted to raise my son. I counted ex-shat as a non-factor in raising Teslet because he is broken and refuses to get help. How can he attend to his son's needs when he cannot attend to his own?
Was it difficult to get to that point with the man I loved above all else...of course. But I'm glad that I did...because I can tell you, 8 months out from D...I did right by my son.


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4628 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Ok. So what's your plan?


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 944 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I am alternating between refusing to respond to any of it (and most of it we already discussed at first mediation), and just stating the obvious: "That job offer a still on the table? Great, go for it! The rest of it? We will discuss it at mediation."

She is baiting me. I don't want to bite.

As far as "palimony" (aka spousal support), I don't even think I qualify or at least not for much. I probably was t even going to demand it. I just want out.

And now I am having serious third thoughts about the house. You see what I'm dealing with? Staying in our marital home would just lead to more NPD behavior since it is "my house too!!"


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

This is the response I sent:

"

This is not ideal, however, it is a current offer and as you are aware I have basic expenses/health insurance that I must be able to afford."

That's great that the offer is still on the table. As they say "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush." As I said before I think you should seriously consider taking it, but of course it's up to you...

I think the Home expenses come to around 4,000 a month.

These two scenarios--you taking this job and this rough figure for the home expenses--are I believe being written into the MSA agreement draft. (Note: it's just a draft.)

The other stuff we will discuss at mediation.

Do you want to see if we can meet earlier than the 28th with The mediator?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Dad- it's not her house. She abandoned it. You can get the house in the proceedings where she has no 'ownership' rights even though her name may still remain on the mortgage.

Now, she may feel differently about that. But that's too bad. As my dad says, "It's the screwing she gets for the screwing she got."


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4628 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
hummingbird8
Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Forgive me for not remembering, are you not employed?

Posts: 504 | Registered: Aug 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

She abandoned it

That's hard to prove, no? In any case I don't want to go there unless pushed.


Forgive me for not remembering, are you not employed
?

Me? Yes, I am.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Absolutely easy. You've been journaling/keeping a calendar right? Add to that HER name on the apartment lease. House is yours.

If this went to trial, her CS would be dictated by her last 3 years of employment I believe. Health insurance is mandatorily kept in her name. Were she to take the school position, she should be required to purchase a policy that would maintain the current level of coverage.

I know you want to keep this amicable. You are holding all the cards. Have you asked a lawyer what the likely outcome of taking this to trial would be? That should be your negotiation standpoint through mediation.

As a father who had primary custody of my son, I can tell you her behaviors are scary as it relates to your kids. How did she introduce your son to him? How did his awareness of the fact that this was the OM NOT enter her mind? Her concerns are all about her and how this affects her lifestyle. All of her posturing about best interests of the children sounds coached. Straight from her lawyer.

I'm afraid your in a fight that you are not seeing the totality of!

Strength

Know your enemy, her name is.....


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

It is in your childrens best interest that you and your STBXW structure your lives, and your agreements, with the least amount of conflict and stress.

The less that one of your depends on the other, or have co-mingled interests, will probably be best for your kids.

Remaining in a home that you can't support AND accumulate savings means you will be stressed. Any CS payment, or palimony payment, that arrives late will create stress, and conflict.

Let the law dictate CS, and palimony, and you decide where you can live AND accumulate savings. It isn't in your childrens best interests to hear you stall creditors or to have you on edge worried about bills and supporting your self in retirement.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

It is in your childrens best interest that you and your STBXW structure your lives, and your agreements, with the least amount of conflict and stress.

The less that one of your depends on the other, or have co-mingled interests, will probably be best for your kids.

Remaining in a home that you can't support AND accumulate savings means you will be stressed. Any CS payment, or palimony payment, that arrives late will create stress, and conflict.

Let the law dictate CS, and palimony, and you decide where you can live AND accumulate savings. It isn't in your childrens best interests to hear you stall creditors or to have you on edge worried about bills and supporting your self in retirement.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

AD,
I've tried not to say too much here, but I read your threads, and I just feel I must now.

You need a lawyer. You need legal advice. It's clear from your comments and the suppositions you are relating to us that you really have very little idea of how to go about getting the D done in the best way for the kids. You are trying to do it all yourself, with advice from us....and you are going to...well, possibly get very screwed. You're very reluctant to really hear the advice here....that's ok...we're strangers. That's why you need a LAWYER. You need that legal advice, friend. You need to hear it.

She should not be stepping one foot in your home, if you dont want her to. Unfortunately, none of this is going well because you will not establish, and maintain NC.

At 2:46 pm, you posted here that you were debating whether to answer her...several people had already advised not to. At 2:59, you posted the (wayyyyy too long) response you sent her.

I'm swinging a mild 2x4 because I am concerned for you. You do not know what you don't know. We can't possibly cover it all here, and you are too emotionally involved to make the best decisions. The hardest decision has been made....to divorce.

Now, you REALLY NEED that unemotional third party....not just a mediator, but an attorney. It sounds like you are reluctant to do so, in fear of pissing WW off. It sounds like you are fearful of obtaining a better custody situation for the kids for fear of pissing WW off. If your emotions are keeping you from keeping those babies from being exposed to more topless pics, or worse, then you really must get someone IRL that can help you do that.

If the situation changes later, custody issues can be modified. You are trying to be too "fair" here. And you will get screwed.

Again....all of this is meant with the best intentions.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 6:43 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

^^^^^This

If you were granted custody, you do realize that you can send the kids over more if you so feel, right? It just becomes that YOU will decide what is in the children's best interests.

Lawyer!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

If you think your STBXWW hasn't consulted an attorney, you're lying to yourself.

*YOU* need to consult an attorney for professional legal advice. He'll be your advocate when (if/when) Mediation breaks down.

Knowledge is power!


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I was really afraid to even call a lawyer.

I did not want to upset him, or make him think I didn't trust him, or that I was un-loyal. I was the "good" wife, just like I was the "good" gf that ignored the parade of red flags.

But my wonderful father pointed out to me, I was not thinking straight. I needed legal advice to protect MY KIDS.

AD, your kids need you to do this. They need to know that you consulted lawyers so you could understand fully the ramifications of any decisions that would effect them until emancipated.

Please, AD, listen to us who have walked this path before you.


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Thanks, Everyone,

I do have a very good highly recommended attorney whom I consult with and I have all along. She knows I am going the mediation route but will file with her if it breaks down.

In any case I will sign nothing without my attorney looking it over to make sure I am not getting a raw deal and that the legal language is clear and binding.

I fully expect mediation to break down when she realizes she is not going to dictate or get everything she wants. Fine. Then we will litigate. It will be unfortunate, but I do believe I am holding all the cards if it goes that way.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:56 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough.

Your lack of understanding about the "abandonment of the house" issue...you lack of clarity as to whether or not (definitively) you'd receive spousal support...the opinions youve stated on these two issues alone sound like you have not really gone into depth with the lawyer.

Not to mention custody. A good lawyer would be advising you to seek primary custody, AND would have already instructed you on how to keep careful records of all that happens, especially with regards to her and the kids.

You stated in one post that she is a good mother, and the kids need her. I'm confused about that statement...you yourself have been shocked at some of the things that have happened...I.e., topless pics. Perhaps she WAS a good mother. Perhaps she one day will be again. But she is not who you keep thinking she it.

Having a lawyer will ultimately save you money. If an entire agreement is drawn up with the mediator, and you are still showing it to an attorney, and presumably paying the attorney....then you are paying twice.

I know you shy away from the word "litigate" regarding divorce. I really do not think you understand what that means. It sounds like, in your head, you imagine that to be ugly and time consuming.

I won't urge you again to have an attorney handle this....you've heard it from plenty if people, not just me. But I think you're here because you know that we've all been through it, and have some pretty good advice.

I just hate to see you running around in circles...which it sounds like you are. You won't go NC, and you still sound way too worked up about her reactions to all this, than in getting what's best for the kids.

Good luck.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 8:43 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

In any case I will sign nothing without my attorney looking it over to make sure I am not getting a raw deal and that the legal language is clear and binding.

Just want to point out that avoiding a RAW deal doesn't necessarily mean you got the BEST deal possible. AD, you are making a business deal that will affect you and your children for MANY years, long after you have detached and BOTH you and yoru STBXW have moved on to other relationships. Some lawyers will do what you say because you are the client even if it's not what they recommend. So here is what I did to make sure I didn't screw myself because I was emotional. I told the lawyer up front what I thought I wanted to do and then asked her to give me straight answers on if I could get more or get less and to call me out when I was giving up more than I should or not asking for enough. I essentially told her to NOT allow me to screw myself over.

The advice I received was let her get me the best deal possible and I could always freely give my STBXW more if I chose to in the future but I wouldn't be legally obligated to do so.

The eye opener or "snap out of it moment" for me was her telling me that at some point in the future I WILL be in another relationship(s) and legally obligating myself to giving more now WOULD have an effect on me later when I was no longer emotionally attached to her. Oddly enough I got the same advice here on SI so I listened to the L. I am glad I did.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:10 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough.
I agree. At this point, AD, any discussion about the divorce your stbx initiates should be met with crickets, "We'll discuss that in mediation," or "Have your lawyer contact mine."

Seriously, this back-and-forth nonsense has to stop. You're going to inadvertently screw yourself in an effort to ...what? Be the nice guy?

Haven't you learned that you can't nice her back yet?

YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK.

(I really think that, in the back of your mind, you still are holding out hope for this.)


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8685 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

I learned the hard and expensive way you can't mediate with certain people.

They lie, they stonewall, they bully and manipulate, and talk in circles wasting everyone's time. In the end they won't do what is agreed upon.

THAT happened to me.

It stopped when I hired a lawyer, and let the lawyer do the work. The lawyer had the skill and wisdom to get me the settlement that would serve the kids the best. He had the experience....been through this process many times verses my one time. Plus lawyers aren't an emotional mess and vulnerable to manipulation or falling into old patterns of behavior.....like YOU are right now. (said very gently)

I did not have a trial.

Once I gave up the idea of mediating....the divorce went so much better.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 10:58 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

I think the Home expenses come to around 4,000 a month.

Take the child support which you are owed. However, can you imagine the *resentment* you will feel knowing you NEED her money every month to make ends meet? Waiting for her to deposit $$ so you can write the checks out so your credit history doesn't become as unrepairable as your heart?

Money is the ultimate control.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 11:13 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Thanks, Everyone,

PLEASE rest assured, if mediation does not go well (I don't expect it will)--whether she starts balking or it seems in any way that I am not getting the best deal for myself and our children, I WILL go and simply file with my attorney.

I have all my paperwork filled out given by my attorney. She is ready should mediation fail.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

AD...WHY do you think she will do anything that is in the best interest of the children? She took them to see the OM..before the D was even filed(yes?)...the same OM your poor little boy knows about now...thanks to the dirty pic and text he saw on his mom's phone. This shows a blatant lack of care and concern for your kids. It is abusive. Actually,she's been abusive all along..the lying..stringing the kids along..playing with their emotions...leaving them..she is abusive. She doesn't have to hit them to be abusive. The scars she is leaving on their hearts..on their souls,will last a lifetime.

You *want* a good co-parenting relationship with her. Of course you do. But you can't have that with a mother who thumbs her nose at her kids' well being.

Im glad that you've decided if mediation doesn't go well,you will go through the courts.

You're a nice guy,AD. You deserve to be happy and safe. So do your kids...and sometimes kids need protection from their parents. In this case,you must protect your kids.

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:54 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Well, I'm glad you have an attorney, but it sure sounds like you are not "consulting" him/her enough
.


I agree. At this point, AD, any discussion about the divorce your stbx initiates should be met with crickets, "We'll discuss that in mediation," or "Have your lawyer contact mine."
Seriously, this back-and-forth nonsense has to stop. You're going to inadvertently screw yourself in an effort to ...what? Be the nice guy?

Haven't you learned that you can't nice her back yet?

YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK.

(I really think that, in the back of your mind, you still are holding out hope for this.)

Agreeing with solus here. To back up a bit, you do realize, in regards to her e-mail to you, that she is trying to manipulate/threaten you, right? When my H was in his A he told me basically, "you better take what I'm offering you, because it's more than a judge will give you if you try and take this through the courts." The lawyer I consulted me at that point told me to call his bluff, because the ONLY reason he would have to say that, is if he was scared of the outcome. If he would give me MORE than a judge would, then why would he be so against me taking it through the courts? It doesn't make sense. Your wife wants the upper hand and she is trying to manipulate you into what she wants. If you are consulting with an A in mediation that you fully expect to fail, then you are wasting money. It makes no sense. Why are you so set on mediation?


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1244 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Thanks for your thoughts/advice today. I will look them over carefully and respond soon.

Just received the first draft of the MSA. It looks like crap. There was all sorts of stuff that seemed in direct contradiction to what we discussed in mediation, no mention of other subjects, and stuff that was outright untrue. For example, it said we both forego spousal support. We never even GOT to spousal support!

Pisses me off. More reasons to fight with the STBXWW.

And this mediator is lauded as the best, training many other mediators in the county.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

I hope that MSA will help you to see why you need a lawyer. Who is working for YOU and the KIDS. You've said several times you don't expect mediation to work...you're seeing that come to life...why wait?

What, really, is stopping you from getting that lawyer and getting that done? You don't have to answer here...just answer it to yourself. A lawyer does not mean either one of you will necessarily spend one day in court. I didn't.

Meanwhile, while you think the MSA is "crap", WW probably thinks it's great.

If the mediator is including stuff you guys never even got to talking about? Well....I'd be spending my precious time and money with an attorney who will not only draft the agreement I want, but will then do the negotiating.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
LifeIsBroken
Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

We went to 'the best' and most highly recommended mediator, as well. It was a waste of time and money. She was totally unprepared to deal with a now-xh who was not willing to budge on what HE felt was 'fair.' His fair, of course, was to screw me over yet again. Forget mediation, visit your attorney.


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

I just wanted to add....

No, this does NOT mean "more reasons to fight with STBXWW". You should not be fighting with her at all. That is why you get an attorney.

As I noted ages ago, though, it sounds like there is something in you that needs to maintain connection with your WW....even if negative. You still haven't gone NC. Having a lawyer will make NC much easier, especially when you get a parenting plan put in place.

And perhaps that's where you are struggling....still unwilling to go NC and call it a day on the marriage. No criticism intended on that. MANY of us went way too long before getting the hang of NC. I completely get how hard that is. But I know for me, my healing could only BEGIN once I went NC. And having the lawyer do all the work for the D helped me to detach as well.

So, I hope you can take this next big step and get yourself the representation you need, which will help to give you the space from WW that you need. And, having the attorney will speed up the process....and you need never meet with WW again to discuss/argue anything.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

but I do believe I am holding all the cards if it goes that way.

Magical thinking...

More reasons to fight with the STBXWW.

Emotional thinking...

[This message edited by ladies_first at 10:37 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client." ~Abraham Lincoln


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

There was all sorts of stuff that seemed in direct contradiction to what we discussed in mediation, no mention of other subjects, and stuff that was outright untrue. For example, it said we both forego spousal support.

Even as a first draft, that's already showing the mediators bias. No spousal support? I read that as including the insurance as well. Why is she supporting your STBXWW's goals? How could she know what they are?

I'm afraid your in a fight that you are not seeing the totality of!

I know you really desire to keep this amicable. It appears, she doesn't.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

AD, if you haven't already, soon you will notice that her shifts between super nice and crazy psycho will be fewer and farther between. She is still in the A and her manipulations of you no longer work to the extent she wants. This means the back and forth behavior will stop and she will get stuck on hatred and blame shifting. The nice cycle gets turned off in favor of I will rip his soul out because he is the cause of all my problems. Of course you aren't really the cause of all her problems but in HER MIND it is true. The legal stuff will get more complicated as she starts to get a clearer picture in her head of how things are supposed to be to HER. You can't mediate with a person like that. Just be careful and IMO you should start firing "head shots" now in the form of filing for sole use of the house, filing for custody of the children or at least pushing for more than 50/50, and refusing to speak with her at all unless the L is involved. You can drop the kids off without speaking to her and she can do the same.

By asking for way more than you really want, it gives you the upper hand in negotiation as you back off stuff you didn't really care about to get what you really want. She essentially just did that to you with this first crappy draft of a MSA. Don't cave on ANYTHING that you really need or want. I am not saying go the mutaully assured destruction route, I am saying be smart about the process and let your L guide you.

I'm afraid your in a fight that you are not seeing the totality of!

A Fight is actually a good way of thinking of this. Looking back I had the following mindset without even realizing it. I just knew I had to get what I needed in the agreement now and the rest would work itself out later. Think of this as a championship fight between 2 people that know each other. They may be cordial outside of the ring even best friends but once they get in the ring and the bell sounds they are literally trying to "knock each other the fuck out". You guys have been in the ring for a few rounds already, you have been pulling punches because you possibly still see her as a friend while she has been swinging for the fences for some time. At the end of the fight all that matters is who is still standing and you want it to be you and your kids. After you figuratively "knock her ass out" and are D or have a legal document spelling out all the terms as you wait for D, you can always return to being "friends" or whatever relationship you do or don't want to build with her after all the business is taken care of. Until the fight/D is officially over you keep swinging.

Speaking from experience the fight part sucks but after it's over things start to get better once you no longer have to deal with the toxicity anymore.

As always this was just my 2 cents, you walk your own path, do what you can when you can, and I wish you the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:06 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

A Fight is actually a good way of thinking of this.

Yes, a Divorce is a fight over finances and children--both emotional subjects.

And when our brains enter Fight or Flight mode, we are no longer thinking rationally.

Hence the need for an impartial advocate. If the mediator isn't impartial, talk to your lawyer.

Then, your lawyer can be the bad guy in all this, Abbondad.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Hello, My Prescient Friends!

My STBXWW just texted me that she took it upon herself to cancel our next mediation.

Why? Because I "did not respond directly to her questions in her email."

Translation: I did not promise I would bend over and agree to waive CS.

I played it dumb, replying that we can talk about it in mediation, where we will be given appropriate information to reach decisions.

Her response: we need to make our own decisions before mediation, since "they just repeat what the law says and it doesn't make sense in our situation."

Don't worry, I have left a message with my attorney that I want to file immediately.

Y'know, I tried to nice her out of the affair, I tried to nice her in mediation, and god knows I niced her in the marriage.

I'm not at all surprised (and I've said so here), but it still makes me so sad. But of course it does boost my resolve.

Again, I just hope the kids can be kept out of this, it can be settled out of court, it won't drag on, and I won't be demolished financially.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

((((AD))))

Thank goodness that....

I have left a message with my attorney that I want to file immediately.

This is the BEST way to protect YOUR CHILDREN (also yourself, but you don't seem to value you that much).

I really hope that your L is a SHARK and will get you the BEST. DEAL. POSSIBLE. That means maxing out on CS (especially) and hopefully SS as well.

Don't expect your WW to treat you (and your CHILDREN) better in the D than she did in the M.

Please please PLEASE go NC with her. Let your L do the talking. They are the only one that has your back right now.

((((AD))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Wow she is a freaking trip.
I am glad that you contacted your attorney. Stick to it. You know what whatever it costs, it's worth getting it done, done right, and in a manner that will be efficient, and won't end up with you being completely screwed over.

It's only money. You know how to make more.

I commend you for not loosing your shit with her, because I myself would have seen red, and given her holy hell for taking it upon herself to cancel. She just wants to continue to drag this shit out, and make your life miserable. NO MORE!!!!
AD you deserve more, and you can demand it.

I am proud of you. Keep up the strong work.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Isn't this the 2nd time that she just unilaterally cancelled mediation?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Isn't this the 2nd time that she just unilaterally cancelled mediation?

You have a good memory. (Boy, my story's a cliffhanger, huh?)

The first time she convinced me to cancel it because she "Wasn't emotionally prepared." Stupid me, I thought that she would pull her head out of her ass. Nope. Just a stall tactic.

I just spoke to her. (Yeah, I know.). But I did good: let her go off on the usual stuff about how I am being "unreasonable" and "inflexible" for daring to "go by the letter of the law" for daring to want CS and possibly spousal support. (Actually I'm likely not entitled to much given the duration of our marriage.)

And of course all this was framed as ME not looking out for the best interests of the children. Un. Believable. If she wants to go there, I am holding all the cards, as you guys well know.

I told her I am no longer interested in mediation. (But I did not say anything about filing. She'll figure it out, and THEN all hell will break loose.)

I tried to shut it down, but she resisted. Finally I told her I will no longer discuss this and that I was hanging up. And I did. First time I ever did that. A bit scary, but very empowering.

I'm sure her NPD self is livid.

My attorney appt. is next week.

Wish me strength as I head into the eye of the storm.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

If she wants to go there, I am holding all the cards,

Magical thinking...


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Magical thinking...

Uh-oh. I'm trying to be confident here!

;-)

What do you mean?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Abbondad, you should feel confident.

Time for you to take an honest appraisal of your enemy's strengths and weaknesses -- and an honest appraisal of your own strengths and weaknesses.

If you believe either of you have all the power, you are mistaken.

The courts don't give a rat's ass who your STXWW is fucking. (the laws in a few state's are behind the curve, but I digress).

Divorce is about splitting marital assets and, regrettably, splitting parenting responsibilities.

My attorney appt. is next week.

Great! She'll be your General and lead you into battle.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I see what you mean. I am not deluded; I'm just trying to keep my newfound feeling of empowerment going...

The courts don't give a rat's ass who your STXWW is fucking. (the laws in a few state's are behind the curve, but I digress).

I live in a no-fault state and have no intention of bringing up adultery. I just want to get this thing settled with a professional by my side so I can get on into my new life.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
LifeIsBroken
Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Why would you not bring up the A ? Seems to me that would be a large part of your discussion: 'she became irrational and became a more disinterested parent when the A began. I am divorcing to protect myself and my children from her poor choices. I am asking for more than joint custody because I'm concerned as to the type of man/men she will introduce to their lives.... all based what we've witnessed since */*/* when she began seeing another man. Our children and I were blindsided by her poor choices and I cannot take more chances with that.'


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Why would you not bring up the A ? Seems to me that would be a large part of your discussion: 'she became irrational and became a more disinterested parent when the A began. I am divorcing to protect myself and my children from her poor choices. I am asking for more than joint custody because I'm concerned as to the type of man/men she will introduce to their lives.... all based what we've witnessed since */*/* when she began seeing another man. Our children and I were blindsided by her poor choices and I cannot take more chances with that.'

Thanks LIB,

I do not want the children involved AT ALL in any child custody dispute. I'm concerned that if I bring up adultery then she will harp on the fact that we agreed to "sort of" open up our marriage, etc. Thus it could get messy, opening up a new can of worms and, worst case scenario, make this go to trial. And worse it could involve the kids, since my son got swept into it via his seeing that naked picture.

I want what I and my children are entitled to, and I want it over as quickly as possible, and I don't want the focus to extend anywhere beyond this. KNow what I mean?

The whole adultery element has traumatized me as it is. I want to keep it out of the divorce. Plus as I understand it (and my attorney said this) a judge likely won't give a damn about adultery.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, July 19th (Friday)

It's not the adultery per se, but the way she utilized her time. Was she using time, while separated to be with OM rather than the children.

The "open" marriage. It was only in effect while you both agreed to it.

And worse it could involve the kids, since my son got swept into it via his seeing that naked picture.

??? Of course that will be a huge factor. Brother, YOU didn't involve him. She did. Your goal in D should be to maximize this. What huge damage was done to your son by that exposure? Then, she chose to exacerbate that damage by introduce him to the OM. Wow, how much lower can she sink. The judge would probably agree.

Don't back down brother. Stiff upper lip, ramrod spine. Soldier on!

You're doing good!

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I'm concerned that if I bring up adultery then she will harp on the fact that we agreed to "sort of" open up our marriage, etc.
Just want to point out that regardless of your past romantic life things didn't get "weird" for the kids until your STBXWW moved out and exposed them to the weirdness. Even if you had an open M prior to the A your kids weren't exposed to the craziness. I am not pushing one way or the other. I just want to make sure you understand that from what you have shared of your story nothing you or STBXWW did in your sex life prior to the A "seems" to have had a negative affect on the kids. Sounds like you shielded them from adult issues as most people try to do. Shit didn't get crazy until the A and she moved out and exposed kids to OM, nude texts, etc. So make sure you are NOT blaming yourself for her actions. M stuff and A stuff are separate issues. Don't own her fuck ups.


Plus as I understand it (and my attorney said this) a judge likely won't give a damn about adultery.
If your L knows the entire story and you are comfortable with his guidance then let him guide you.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:53 AM, July 19th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I am also very concerned that my wife will make shit up. I put nothing past her. At the height of the craziness she actually basically insinuated that the kids were unsafe with ME. I just don't want to go there and end up at a trial if at all possible.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Bringing up her affair and the fact that your son saw pictures is not bringing your kids into it. The judge isn't going to say bring the kids into court. It's letting her know that her actions that involve the kids is not acceptable, and that you are doing xyz to protect them.

I filed the divorce. Yes, the divorce papers when to the courts; they have to to be legal and have the divorce decree done. I never went to court. We never went before a judge. Filing through a lawyer, regardless of what type of D you are doing does not mean a long drawn out court battle.

You tell your L what you want in the D. The L draws up the papers. They are served to the other person. They can either sign off on them, or come back with changes of their own. Much like when you are negotiating to buy a house.

You know which items in the D papers are the ones you are willing to push on. For me, I negotiated with him that instead of us selling the house and all debts being paid off, which would have left me with nothing to buy a house for the kids and I, that I bought him out, but instead of giving him cash, I took on a larger part of our debts. I also fought for the custody I wanted. The rest? Start at the middle, and I used them as bargaining chips to make sure the important parts went the way I wanted them to.

His A didn't make a difference in our divorce. What others are saying that even though the courts "don't care" that they had an A, you can still use her behavior as ways to move things along.

"You didn't show up 8 times int he past month to pick up the kids at appointed times. I will not agree to 50/50, I want more because your actions do not show someone that has the kids best interest at heart."

You use the info to help you negotiate. That's all the others are saying. Not to drag your kids into court.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5485 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I am also very concerned that my wife will make shit up. I put nothing past her. At the height of the craziness she actually basically insinuated that the kids were unsafe with ME.

Have you been documenting? She can allege all she wants. What can she prove?

At one point I faced a false DV charge. Didn't happen. Had documentation. OCD and/or Tourette's are not reasons for the children to not be safe either.

Follow your lawyers advice after you inform him/her of your desires. Religiously.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 19th (Friday)

dude just File Mediation is going to end up with you getting hosed. I would not be one bit surprised for her to stay on the unemployment wagon either until this is dealt with, that way you would have to give her CS, and Alimony.
You need to tap into your inner pitbull, and push for what is right.

((((and GRRRR))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, July 19th (Friday)

CS is not about income disparity. It goes from non custodial to custodial. The amount varies based on the incomes involved, but if you have more than 50/50, she will owe you CS, employed or not. On that note, gather your tax documents from the past 2-3 years. You want to show the court what her income could be. Staying unemployed to dodge CS is an old, tired trick that the judge has seen a thousand times. You can have the CS order issued based on her previous income. She can argue that her circumstances have changed, of course, but if she has a job offer on the table that's a tough sell.

I'm so glad you're taking control and filing.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, July 19th (Friday)

CS is not about income disparity. It goes from non custodial to custodial. The amount varies based on the incomes involved, but if you have more than 50/50, she will owe you CS, employed or not. On that note, gather your tax documents from the past 2-3 years. You want to show the court what her income could be. Staying unemployed to dodge CS is an old, tired trick that the judge has seen a thousand times. You can have the CS order issued based on her previous income. She can argue that her circumstances have changed, of course, but if she has a job offer on the table that's a tough sell.

Thank you. Now I think I know why she wants 50/50 even though with her job she won't be able to have them 50% of the time. She has been trying to get me to agree to 50/50 under the guise of "what's best for the children."

I know she does want to be with them 50% of the time, but she won't be with this job. ((She will be traveling.)

But she also doesn't want to pay CS according to state law.

I want to go with something like 60/40 but with "open visitation" or something like that. In other words, I have them the majority of the time but in the event that she IS home, she can take them.

(Or am I way off?)

Ultimately stuff to discuss with my attorney....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Frustrated  Posted: 3:31 PM, July 19th (Friday)

Right of first refusal. You can have a clause in your agreement that if one of you should need child care during your parenting time, you must first check the availability of the other parent. Sometimes there's a time limit, like if you need child care for more than 2 hours or 4 hours.

Discuss with your attorney, of course.

ETA: I didn't mean for there to be a face on the post. Blame a small touchscren!

[This message edited by roughroadahead at 3:34 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, July 19th (Friday)

Can any of you sum up the pros and cons of filing through my attorney and the pros and cons of going through mediation--given my situation?

I've been talking all day to guys who've been through "traditional" divorce and I'm getting a bit scared by their horror stories. Not enough to back off, but I think I need an "itemized nudge," you know?

I can feel myself thinking, "Well, maybe I should keep trying with mediation, hold strong to my position, and of course take the MSA to my attorney. Worst case scenario? If it continues to fall apart? We waste another 1500k. But maybe it won't..."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, July 19th (Friday)

DUDE.

How itemized do we have to get? Here's the bottom line. YOU NEED LEGAL GUIDANCE. Which means you need an attorney. It's clear by all of your comments that you really have no understanding of the legal process of divorce. Quit asking us, or your friend and HIRE AN ATTORNEY.

Just talking about "dragging the kids through a child custody dispute". You are imagining scenarios that rarely happen. You are more worried about the PROCESS than about the OUTCOME. You need to be focused on the OUTCOME and what is BEST for your kids!!!!!!

I can't believe you're still thinking this can be "mediated". We have here, for the most part, urged legal representation....a lawyer. The lawyer works for YOU. She/he is NOT an impartial mediator. The attorney will work hard to protect you from YOURSELF. All along in these threads you've made some wild assumptions about the divorce process without understanding it. And the best place to get an understanding of it is with a LAWYER.

Please, I beg you, stop the dithering. Quit asking questions that only a lawyer should answer for you. But, most of all, please, PLEASE take steps to ensure what is best for the kids. You are creating scenarios in your mind that are paralyzing you.

So, hopefully, this won't go another 19 pages before you make a solid decision and go with it. You can stick with mediation....and it will be drawn out MUCH longer, and you and the kids will get a raw deal. But, in mediation I believe you will continue to talk to WW....and THAT is what I think you don't want to give up.

One of the best things about using a lawyer? THEY TALK FOR YOU. It's that simple. No emotions, no drama (that you see). No manipulations.

Please, I beg you. Get that attorney and file. You are going in circles, and the ones that will get hurt the most from you inability to make a decision and seek the PROPER guidance, are your kids.

ETA: You've asked for advice over and over. You are unable, or unwilling, to hear it. You are so unclear about the process, even after all the questions and talk. I just don't understand why you won't get proper legal advice, from an attorney whom you have hired and have a retainer agreement with. I don't get what is holding you back from just doing that. "Talking" to a lawyer friend is not the same thing as hiring a lawyer, who works for YOU and is obligated to get YOU and your kids, the very best deal. Even if you decide to go back to mediation, at least you will have proper legal advice.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 4:34 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, July 19th (Friday)

I must admit to some confusion. I thought you had your lawyer file yesterday.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, July 19th (Friday)

Thank you!! That's all I needed to hear. Plus a divorced friend IRL just told me (shouted at me) the same thing.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 19th (Friday)

Hi, Friends,

I want to share something exciting with you:

Today is the second day in a row where I have NOT felt the following since this all began nearly a year ago (D day):

-No crying
-no longing
-no "what ifs"
-no despair
-no irrational, delusional hope that she will change
-no depression (sadness, yes, but even this is rather distant)
-My kids are with her, I am alone in the house. I just said goodnight to them in FaceTime, and though I miss them deeply, I am not falling into a heap now. I know I will see them Sunday.

I feel strong, together, my mind feels sharp. My appetite has returned, and I look forward to returning to work.

Again, I don't exaggerate when I say that today, and to a lesser extent yesterday, is the ONLY and FIRST day this has happened.

I can only attribute my radical change in my emotional state to the following:

-I have not seen her in days
-I have not taken her bait in phone conversations, not today, not yesterday
-I hung up on her for the first time ever
-I am resolute in filing for divorce, and her inevitable fury be damned
-I feel anger, outrage at what she has done, but it's a quiet, calm anger

Her power over me is weakening!

Is this the beginning of the holy grail of indifference?

Now, the real test will be 1) when I see her, and 2) (the REAL test) if/when she love bombs me.

But I suspect she is out of ammunition. She is pissed that I am rebuffing her. She senses she has lost The Power.

Now, this could change and I may very well cycle back into the roller coaster tomorrow. But right now I am thrilled and very proud of myself!

I finally know I will, as you all have assured me for so long, that I will survive this. I will be OK!

Thank you, everyone!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, July 19th (Friday)

See, it does get easier.


I want to go with something like 60/40 but with "open visitation" or something like that. In other words, I have them the majority of the time but in the event that she IS home, she can take them.
(Or am I way off?)

First right of refusal, with your parenting time written in stone. With a manipulative person you want to have that document to fall back on. ALWAYS. It s a bindng agreement.

You don't want her playing games with you over this.

You also want to have CS funneled through your state agency. That way the state has a paper trail, and the state will follow up. How do I know this? Well, I was stupid and trusted the manipulative FT. He ended up with a garnishment and the money funneled through the state. Oh so much nicer as I never have to speak to him about it. But it would have saved me a lot of anguish and worry when he stopped paying Nov. and Dec. when i was a stay at home mom!

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 9:19 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


Dont get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.

Posts: 2672 | Registered: Jan 2010
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

I can feel myself thinking, "Well, maybe I should keep trying with mediation, hold strong to my position, and of course take the MSA to my attorney. Worst case scenario? If it continues to fall apart? We waste another 1500k. But maybe it won't..."


No. worst case scenario - You lose your home. You lose access to your kids. We've been telling you this for months now. For the love of god wake up before this happens and file. Your spouse is going to realise it's real sooner or later and when that happens she is going to do everything in her power to take everything from you. She'll go for the house, she'll go for the kids. All the time she will be smiling and playing mrs reasonable. All the while she will talking about mediation. If it comes down to her word against yours, and you are still falling for this bullshit, she might just get everything too. It doesn't matter if you are the best dad in the world and she is the antichrist, it will come down to who is the most convincing. In a battle of wills between a ruthless, selfish WS and a dithering indecisive Bs, the WS will win every time. So for the love for God file, before you end up being yet another person on here posting "oh my god you were all right".

Why are you still asking questions about mediation. You've already seen it's bullshit with a WS that has their own interests at heart and nothing else. I think you are just still looking for the one exception to the rule that will go "oh yeah I ignored everyone on SI and it all worked out fine" so you can justify your procrastination and fear to take the next step even though you know it's the right one.

Your wife is gone, your marriage is done. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. File and start your life again. Her affair might be a defining moment in your life, but you do not have to let it define your life.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
Its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

AD, PLEASE listen to SadMad and LonelyHeart! You need to file ASAP, and you need to file for the absolute maximum that you can get as far as custody, the house, CS, and SS. Things can always be adjusted later as far as visitation goes with the kids, but YOU need to protect those kids. Do you honestly want those kids spending the majority of their time with your WS, where her POS OM may be at any time? And as far as your thinking you may have reached "the holy grail of indifference", that's ONE of the reasons why you need an attorney to speak FOR you - so it doesn't matter if you're indifferent or crying into your beer - she won't know it. Your attorney, if you have a good one, is your shield and your lance in this battle. And make no mistake, it is a battle at this point. You're long past the point of mediation being an effective tool for dissolving this marriage. Please file and let a professional handle the legal details about which you have no knowledge; you will end up saving yourself money and heartache in the long run.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Sorry, I meant LonelyHusband, not LonelyHeart. My oops!


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Friends,

Again, I have an appointment with my attorney this Wednesday.

I.
AM.
FILING.

And I will let you know that I have as soon as I can after my appointment.

Thank you as always for your support.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

I.
AM.
FILING.

Glad to hear it. Now make sure you ask for the MAXIMUM. You can negotiate down to 'reasonable' if/when necessary.

Also: make sure that when you get down to the final agreement that EVERYTHING IS COMPLETELY SPECIFIED IN WRITING. You CANNOT trust your WW to be a reasonable partner in your D.

I am specifically concerned about her wanting 50/50 on paper (presumably in an attempt to avoid CS) but leaving the children with you most of the time 'off the books'. Then it will be fight after fight of who/how much/when and a scheduling nightmare for you because she will be CONTROLLING YOUR LIFE until the children are grown.

You need to have the percent custody on paper reflect the reality, and your WW's visitation (or custody) times specified in writing. You can include right of first refusal both ways. You can specify what happens if someone is late for pickup. But make sure that it is ALL there, with nothing wishy-washy, so that when (not if, but WHEN) she wants to go around the agreement you have that document to fall back on.

Good luck with your L, I hope you have a SHARK who knows how to fight for you.

((((AD))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Hi, Everyone,

I am completing my financial affidavit to bring to my attorney's this week. Man, that form is so detailed. Very difficult to be accurate with stuff like values of possessions, monthly home expenses, etc. Must I really be so accurate with the "little stuff"?

Any advice?

Also, I have gone back and forth with our home: I want our kids to stay, I want to move out and start anew, I want to move out...

Now I'm back to staying put as long as possible. Just seeing them a few days ago SO happy to be back in the only world they've known, with all their friends.... To take them away from this on TOP of the divorce...well...

Problem is, after mortgage and everything else, I would barely break even every month.

My wife could easily help, as she makes over 100k and I make 60k, but do not believe I qualify for spousal support, as we have been married for only ten years. Maybe a little SS, which would help pay the bills.

What to do....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

That "little stuff" can add up fast and come back to bite you in the butt afterward. can you come up with a spreadsheet for all your household expenses based on past bills? that way you have actual numbers that are reflected, not WAGs. Also, for values of possessions, I believe there are common guides that are used for insurance valuations, unless you have some rare antiques or artwork that you have had appraised (hopefully). Or, the alternative is that you have kept records of the purchase prices of major household goods and can just do a depreciated value of them. It all adds up to more than you think. As far as the house goes, you are really going to have to take the emotion out of the equation out of the situation. i know you want to keep it for the kids, but if keeping it will make the finances so tight, then you will be constantly stressed out over finances, and that won't be good for the kids either.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Hi,

I just met the WW on the side of the road in between our places to trade off one of the dogs. Our kids were with her.

She got out of the car and threw herself into my arms, would not let go, and looked tearfully into my eyes.

I am so upset (angry) not just because she has the audacity to do this, but because my son was right there, beaming with hope looking at us.

The good news is that I feel no pull.

I'm sure this will not happen again once she learns that I've filed and she is not going to get her way. Then the poison will return, and with a vengeance.

Still, very upsetting.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

yeah... she's pretty much a bad person.

i mean, if she's still banging her AP, then this is just pure manipulation. and she's manipulating your kids as well.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Please check with your lawyer about spousal support. It his highly unlikely you'll get it for the rest of your life, but for example, waffle and I were married for 10 years and both Ls agree that I get 3 years of SS. He is well established in his career, and I'm just starting mine, so there is the necessary income disparity. It may well be different in Florida, but don't make any assumptions, and ask the question.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

i know you want to keep it for the kids, but if keeping it will make the finances so tight, then you will be constantly stressed out over finances, and that won't be good for the kids either.

Thanks, WW.

I did some numbers crunching, and I think I can "technically afford" the house. It would be tight, but....

I net 4600.00 a month.

Mortgage + miscellaneous come to around 4000.00. (This is a high estimate, and I can make some sacrifices and pinch pennies.)

WW will likely pay at least 1000.00 in CS. Again, i don't think i qualify for SS, but my attorney can inform me of this. I am willing to stay put a few years and draw from savings to cover any deficits.

I really want to get the WW off the mortgage and pay her half of what little equity is in the home. This would also free her to be qualified for her own mortgage and buy a more-than-decent home.

I'm hoping she will go for this and not let her irrational vindictiveness rule her actions. After all, she is "all about the best interests of the children."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Just found this on a site about Florida alimony guidelines:


A court may also consider whether either spouse committed adultery during the marriage, and under what circumstances. Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

She threw herself into your arms,wouldn't let go,and was crying..all of this done in front of your children..children who have been caught in the middle of this shit storm as she left,came home,left,and came home,and left again. Children who have been told there is going to be a divorce. Children who have seen mommy's boob pics to her POSOM. Children who have met the OM. And now THIS.

W.T.F.

Really,AD...What The Fuck.

You must never allow her to do this again. Never. She does not want to be your wife. She wants her cake..and you've taken that away. She has decided she won't give up the OM. STOP allowing her to throw herself into your arms. It's not fair to you..but more importantly..what do you think that does to those kids? Kids hate seeing their mom cry..all kids. Most moms know this. She is doing this shit in front of the kids..she is using them to get to you. She is manipulating all of you. YOU must not let her do this.

Tell her as long as she is touching OM,she can NOT touch you. And stop letting her pull this shit in front of those kids.

You know...we see here on SI all the time how fucked up people are because of their FOO. Because their childhoods were fucked up by fucked up parents. I really worry about how all of her bullshit is affecting those sweet kids of yours.

She is not your wife. She fired you from the job of being her husband. But you are their father. Protect them from her emotional abuse.


ETA: 180,180,180,NC,NC,NC.


[This message edited by confused615 at 9:14 AM, July 21st (Sunday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Maybe you can get into settlement that you have 5 years to refinance or give her the equity after you sell the house after the kids are grown. That has happened in situations up here in my state. Throw those at her and see just how greedy she is and how concerned she is about her kids.

You might really want a witness with you when you have to see her. It might stop her drama in front of the kids. See that list I sent you.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

You keep fretting that you "don't think you qualify" for SS. You have mentioned paying her half the equity of the house several times.

You need to stop with the speculations....you will get the answers from your attorney.

Don't necessarily have to pay her half the house equity. She can sign a quit claim deed and walk away from the house. You can perhaps offer her other things than $$ for the "equity". And you can get her off the mortgage any time by refinancing.

But if you can't afford the house, don't. The kids will be fine living anywhere with a loving parent.

And I agree with confused. How in the holy heck are you still allowing situations where she throws herself into your arms? Why can't you stop this? It's not healthy for anyone involved. And in front of your kids...my god. You have the power to protect them. Won't you?

Finally, again, quit with the speculating on finances, house, etc. Your lawyer will have all the answers, and you are only working yourself up again with odd suppositions.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Abbondad, you are doing yourself a disservice with all the conjecture regarding divorce. You need an expert advising you and protecting your best interests, and those of the children.

Any reference to the circumstances surrounding your wife's adultery could bite you harder than it wounds her.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Just a quick response. You can speculate the finances all you want. Trust me, your lawyer will give you the basics of what you can expect. Don't focus on that. Bottom line is it's all just stuff. Worry about you and the kids.

As to the falling into your arms crap. What a bitch. It's all just part of her routine to use against you with the kids. "Look kids, I'm trying, it's all AD's fault that we are not together". So much for the best interest of the kids, not?

Timeline question. Not about the affair, but about her behaviors. What is she like when the kids aren't around. I've got a dollar to your donut that there is a marked difference.

All kids exchanges need to take place when/where there are witnesses around. Sounds like she's playing to win(albeit in a 'dirty' way). Don't cede the field.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

If you stay in that house it will keep you tied to this madness and you will always be pinching pennies.

The kids will adapt to a fresh start. They will probably surprise you and you may even surprise yourself.

You need to keep this toxic bitch at arm's length, and cutting the real estate thread will help.

Sorry you're going through all of this. It's maddening.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

WTF! My STBXWW just told me happily that she is considering renting a house basically around the corner from me!!

I think she doesn't want to let me go--ever--and this is just a form of cake eating.

I don't. Want. Her. Around. Me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Why are you still talking to her??

NC NC NC.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

As to the falling into your arms crap. What a bitch. It's all just part of her routine to use against you with the kids. "Look kids, I'm trying, it's all AD's fault that we are not together".

I couldn't agree with this more.. She is trying to make it YOUR fault to the kids as to why you are not together.

Honestly, I would let the house go. I would plan your finances as if you don't get a single penny from her. Thank the Lord I have been doing that, since the POS hasn't been paying me child support or his half of unreimbursed medical or extracurriculars.

You don't want to be struggling every month trying to make the bills. Think of the extras you could have if you downsized? You could take family vacations, more trips to Disney, save for their college, etc.. And financial stress spills over and causes more stress in other areas of your life. I would very much recommend finding a place that you can comfortably afford.

And kids have to move and change houses ALL THE DAMN TIME. Will it be a change for them that they will have to deal with? YES. Can you make it easier on them by setting up their new place with things they love, bringing them to local parks, encouraging them to make new friends? YES. It's all about how you handle the change and show them that things will be okay..

Oh, and I've said it a hundred times already, but I'll say it again. NO CONTACT in person or on the phone. Email or text only. There is no reason you guys have to talk face to face in front of the kids. You are giving them false hope. Legally and emotionally, please, start limiting this to email and text only.

ETA: Oh, and I think "fight" is not a strong enough word. Divorce with an unremorseful wayward, especially one who seems to have a personality disorder such as your wife, is WAR.

[This message edited by ButterflyGirl at 4:01 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

AD,
You think she doesn't want to let go of you?

No, it's mutual. You don't want to let go of her.

Why won't you go NC? Why did you have to have this conversation with her? The crazy stops when you make it stop.

Unless you thrive on it. And I think you do. Sorry if that's harsh, but I think you don't want NC, really. So, don't be shocked at what you hear, or what happens.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

No, it's mutual. You don't want to let go of her.

Thank you. But you are mistaken.

Many of these meetings cannot be avoided for they are extemporaneous.

This one, for example: I happened to be in my driveway, she pulled up and as I was helping my kids out of the car she told me of this house for rent. What could i have reasonably done in that moment?

I then took the kids, said "Bye," went inside and closed the door.

I am doing my best, friends.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR EVER LOVING MIND?!?!

Staying in that house is only going to cause you pain and grief. Remember how she manipulated you a week ago and barged in and cleaned? She is batshit crazy enough to feel always welcome in that place. I would push for selling and splitting in the D. That way you both have a fresh start an you won't have to be house poor.
Trust me it's no fun having to live that tightly to a budget.

A for her hugging you like that you need to make it perfectly clear that is NEVER EVER NEVER to happen again. I it does you will file an order of protection! Seriously. She will do anything to manipulate you an tr situation have you ever followed out advice and gotten a VAR? This shit is gonna bite you of you do t protect yourself.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

I will say it is unlikely that you'd get an RO for the holding (at least here you'd need to show a fear for safety... maybe you can, who knows), but if you wanted to play hardball, file a police report. Likely not to be prosecuted, but at least putting money where your mouth is regarding "don't touch me".

I agree that you should sell the house. Make a fresh start somewhere else, that you can comfortably afford. Something that's not "hers". Your kids will adapt. Talk it up, let them get excited about picking out new things for their rooms. There may be a transition time for them, but you're playing the long game here. A couple of months of adjusting weighed against years of a peaceful home.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

have you ever followed our advice and gotten a VAR?

Thank you, TN. Yes I have. I have it with me always. Even when we speak on the phone I put her on speaker and have the VAR recording.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

(((AD)))
Sorry for being so harsh but I was seeing some major backsliding. You are struggling with the unknown. Just like you learn to accept you can't change her accept that you will have answers after you meet with your attorney. Try not to let your OCD drive your good sense away.

(((( and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

My wife just texted me that she intends to move back to our home and I need to move out. Advice?

Does she have the legal recourse to do this? I guess she does since it is still her home and I have not gotten any legal prohibition against her doing this. But she did move out and her name is on the lease.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

only her name?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

only her name?

Yes. She again is saying that I do not have the children's best interest in mind, which is her way of saying they are not safe with me. She has done this before. I am scared, as this is such a bizarre lie.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

It sounds to me like POSOM has kicked her to the curb.

Sure she can move back in. But first, put a lock on your bedroom door and move all her stuff to a cot in the basement. She can sleep there.

Move up the meeting with the lawyer and have the papers ready when she arrives. Or at least have a document ready stating your intentions to file and outlining your proposal to split the living expenses and child care until you can sell the house.

She wants you to take her back. Fuck that noise.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 7:26 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 636 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

I doubt that it can be done overnight. you have been documenting? this is definitely something that has to go before your attorney tomorrow.

she has been speaking to someone. legally, her actions have dictated that she had abandoned the marital home. that would be a huge step in awarding primary custody to you.

you will need to speak to your attorney about establishing a temporary custody situation. she already has a second residence. she is the one who moved out.

again, it boils down you speaking to your attorney. ASAP! I know the overtime would be prohibitively expensive, but do you have an after hours number you can call your attorney?

calm down, the games are just beginning. she can claim whatever she wants! it's what she can prove. so far her actions have shown you to be the better parent. remember, she is the one who left the children in your care, in the marital home. that doesn't speak well to her being afraid of leaving the children alone with you now does it.

strength brother


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

make sure that voice activated recorder is with you everywhere!

e.t.a twitchy is right. I don't see any way you can prevent her from moving back in if the house is in her name. separate bedrooms, lock the door.

is there a family member that can come over?

[This message edited by 5454real at 7:32 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Don't try to fight the lies just live honestly and do what you believe is best for you and your kids. You can't deal logically with illogical people.

Document everything, including all the crazy from her. Her f'd up decision making, when spelled out later in detail, will be her undoing.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 7:32 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 636 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

AD,
Little power plays like this are exactly why you should file (and file first). It puts HER on the defensive, not you.

As the previous two posters mentioned, get to your lawyer NOW. Try to get temp orders (custody and use of the house) so that she cant use this threat anymore.
She's already abandoned the house (and has a lease in her name to prove it).
Don't tell her you're going to do it. Just do it.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Wait, wait wait....

Two pages back you said she was on the "mortgage" and that you were thinking you'd need to pay her half the equity of the house.

Now you say the house is leased?

Which is it? Because that does make a big difference. And I'm not sure how you could be unsure of which it is.

Something is not right, here.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

I think he's referring to the lease that his WW took out on her own apartment.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Oh, well then the question is....is she on the deed to the house? On the mortgage?

Either way, you can keep her from moving in. Go to your lawyer tomorrow. Or wait til later in the week and watch her move in. The lawyer will take care if this tomorrow, if you call him/her and stress the urgency.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Correct: her name is on her apartment lease.

She just called again and declared again that "the only thing that is acceptable is 50/50 custody." So arrogantly thinking she can dictate the agreement. Her usual clueless bullying tactics.

I texted my attorney and told her whats going on. She absolutely can't see me before Wednesday.

My wife is going to be out of town until Friday, so I doubt (hope) she won't speak to an attorney before then to do something stupid like somehow serve papers on me demanding I leave our home.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Shit. Tell me again to calm down, the law is on my side, anything reassuring. I'm starting to freak out.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Dad, do NOT answer her at ALL. Just let her text her crazy texts, and do NOT take the bait. NC, TOTALLY until you see the lawyer. Especially if she is going out of town for the week. Do not feed the drama llama.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5485 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

If she has rights to the house SO DO YOU! Don't start freaking out. Breath, and think logically. You have the ball rolling with your lawyer. Practice NC. You just have to get thru until Wednesday. You can do it.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
justabrokendream
Member
Member # 3075
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Hope you do have a good attorney - also hope you let her do her job.

Posts: 304 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: CA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, July 21st (Sunday)

Dad, just chill out.
Your batshit-crazy stbxww is the kind of person that'll hang herself with her own rope. You don't even have to do anything.

Since she's going to be out-of-town this week, it's a perfect time to do the NC thing without having to worry about her 'showing up'.

There really isn't anything that you need to talk to her about at this point and there's definitely absolutely nothing that she needs to talk to you about. She's just trying to get you all twisted up....and she's doing a mighty fine job of it.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

N/C, N/C, N/C. Positively no need to have any conversations with her other than by text. When her number appears on caller ID, have DS answer. When she tells DS she needs to talk to you, have him tell her you are busy(and find something to do like laundry/dishes) and will text her later. Use this respite well.

You absolutely need to profitably use this time to get your ducks in a row.

Since she is out of town until Friday, hopefully you can have the paperwork to hand her upon her return granting you temporary custody and living arrangements based on the current agreed to practice. Has that been a 50/50 proposition? Who has had the children more? Set up temporary C/S and S/S based on her current(and former) income levels. At those support levels, what is the likelihood she could afford the house around the corner.

Yes, you currently appear to have the upper hand, but the longer you delay the more advantage you cede to her. It definitely sounds like she has lawyered up.

Strength.

ETA clarity

[This message edited by 5454real at 8:25 AM, July 22nd (Monday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

Stay NC until you talk with your Attorney. She is working you.
I would not only recommend making sure she can't have the bedroom, but also changing the locks to anything she may have keys to on the house. If she questions it, tell her you lost yours. It won't keep her out permanently, but will slow her butt down.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

Wait. Take a deep breathe. Logically can she do this? Meaning did she not sign a lease for this new apartment she is in? She would have to break that lease and lose her deposit I would think.

Listen, she is hoovering you. Meaning again she went from hugging you and giving love bombs to the next day threatening you that she is moving back in.

Again. Take a deep breathe.

Get all paperwork together that you will need for the attorney on Wednesday. Get all your ducks in a row.


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

Get to your attorney asap. See if he/she can fit you in before Wed. I really doubt that it is impossible. You want those temp orders, like, yesterday. Save the texts she is sending you.

Title is generally irrelevant in family law. It does not matter whose names are on deeds, mortgages etc. The abandonment concept is not relevant. Because you have no temp orders, she has the right to move back. Please make sure you change that as soon as you can.

[This message edited by roughroadahead at 9:07 AM, July 22nd (Monday)]


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

Change the locks on the house. NOW. Install a lock on the bedroom door while you are at it. Don't forget the garage. Prevent her from getting back inside!

The best defense is a good offence. Do not do kid exchanges at your house anymore. ALWAYS go somewhere else to meet her.

Teach your kids to get out on the passenger side of the car. You stay on the drivers side.

Program your phone to play the "silence" ring tone. Do not answer it. Set it to NOT notify you of incoming texts. Look for contact from her no more than 2 times a day when you have the kids.

I encourage you to read up on boundaries and start working on plugging every hole and pore that lets her get to you.

WAR ON LOVEBOMBS. They are toxic.

Expect her to cut her trip short.

Start looking at alternative housing for you and the kids. If she starts taking action on trying to get back in the house, you can let her know you will include the cost of you moving into a rental to get away from her in your CS demands.

Then she can start thinking about what it will cost for her to be on the hook for her apartment rent, the mortgage, AND your new rental home.

You may find the process of searching for new housing empowering. Give it a try.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Don't change the locks until you have orders for use of the house.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
phillygirl
Member
Member # 9078
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

AD,

You are doing sooo much better than when you first came here. You are now clearly aware of the game and how it's played. Well done on that.

But now, you have to go against much of your nature in order to win this game.

You are a nice person, you are naturally honest, fair and care about others. Your WW knows this and will use your good nature against you. Example, the constant contact. She knows that it is not in your nature to be "rude" and ignore her. So she will keep emailing, calling, texting, etc, with the crazy, to keep you off balance.

Shut her down.

No more contact at all unless it's an emergency - A real emergency that involves fire, death or dismemberment. Let her calls go to voicemail. Any emails that do not have a bonafide question that needs to be answered (What time will you pick up the kids?) should get crickets. Everything else document and save for later in case you need it.

Do you have proof that she signed an apartment lease or documentation that she moved out? Like an email from her saying she got an apartment? If you do, I would then change the locks. She moved out. Sucks to be her. For this one I would ask for forgiveness and not permission. You need piece of mind.


Me - BW
Him - WH
Divorced - 7/2013

Posts: 825 | Registered: Dec 2005
philly172
Member
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

I texted my attorney and told her whats going on. She absolutely can't see me before Wednesday.

I'm stunned by this..Are you sure you've got a good attorney? my reason is they are to work FOR you & be available (within reason) If you texted your attorney with fears & she did nothing to alleviate them or to squeeze you in some way, she doesn't seem to have you best interest at heart..

My (well WH & I) attorney is a dumb ass handling WH insurance settlement case & when I e-mailed him that WH had a stroke & I needed POA, he offered to come to the hospital THAT night & also offered to squeeze me in the following day.. Since it wasn't urgent I was able to wait until WH was out of the hospital for him to sign the POA on his own but that's just an example of an attorney working FOR you.

Heck, when I was talking to D attorneys, every one of them offered to see me either that day or the next day, just seems to me that your attorney isn't too available for you


"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4779 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Thank you, everyone,

I finally have my financial affadavit completed and am ready to roll when I meet with my attorney on Wednesday.

No surrender, no retreat.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Are you sure you've got a good attorney?

I'm not sure what to say....

She came highly recommended by several people in my divorce support group for whom she won excellent settlements in cases fraught with even more Crazy than mine.

They say she is tough as nails and knows every nuance and detail of family/divorce/custody law.

The three times I did confer with her I was very impressed. While she was sympathetic to my emotional state at the time, she was ultimately all hard-nosed business. She is very involved with children's rights, winning awards and recognition for pro bono work in this legal area.

My WW met with a renowned prick of an attorney. I assume this is whom she will retain. I informed my attorney of this, and she coolly informed me that she has dealt with him before and I have nothing to worry about.

My therapist--who was a mediator for years--dealt with both my wife's presumed attorney as well as with mine. She (my therapist) basically told me my attorney will take no shit and will kick his ass for me should it get ugly.

So... I don't know what else I should be looking for.

Thanks!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Often the best attorneys are often unavailable if they are in court. Some things just take precedence.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1246 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

You are paying your lawyer to fight for you not nurse your emotional state, that is what your therapist is for. Sounds like she is up for the games that are coming.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Yup I would have to say that it's not that unusual for an Attorney to not be available especially since you aren't all in. If she is the pit bull she is supposed to be then she is probably very very busy.
In addition once you file, and she is actually really working for you, you will most likely find her more available for you. Also trust that she knows the law and the rules better than anyone, and even though it may seem like a HUGE deal to you at the moment, she may know that there is nothing she can do until you actually get the filing done, and the amount of time that will take isn't available until your slotted time on Wed.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Before your meeting get a list of your priorities. Needs vs wants. Highest to lowest. Establish what is negotiable and what is not.

Ask if a temporary custody schedule/support is possible. Check the changing the lock situation. Remember, she has already moved out.

Take all of your documentation. Journals, texts and var copies. Establish exactly what the parenting schedule has been using that documentation. Establish her acknowledging the fact that she has already moved out(the recording of her threatening you with moving back in).

Organize and footnote/index all of the info for easy reference. The more she can get into the temporary decree the better for you. The quicker she can find it the cheaper .

DO NOT TELL WW about any of this. You are in the pre-emptive strike mode right now. When she returns Friday(inform your lawyer of this) you want to hand her the initial decree. Please, do this in a witnessed area. Her stability is suspect.

Good Job so far brother!

Strength from one who has BTDT


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Good Luck tomorrow. Remember to stand up for yourself and your kids.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:08 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Good luck today!


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Thanks, Everyone,

I'm feeling nervous, but strong and determined.

I have my financial affadavit, scraps of records here and there (I could have been more organized at the time different things happened), my VAR, tax returns from the last three years.

Any other suggestions on what to bring?

Before your meeting get a list of your priorities. Needs vs wants.

Don't mean to sound ignorant, but... Do you mean, for example,

I need to stay in my home with my children. They need to maintain the same standard of living they were used to during the marriage. They also need to remain in the school district. Therefore they need maximum CS and I need SS.

I want to keep my entire pension.

etc.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

yes, although the house would probably be considered a want.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2834 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

When my STBXWW finds out I have filed--as well as what I am asking for--she is going to explode with all her venom.

1) should I tell her?
2) should I hand her the papers?
3) should I just have her served?

Also, the reason she will freak is months ago I assured her that we would not go the traditional route, involving attorneys, high cost, and of course, "not doing what's in the best interest of the children."

When she levels this against me--that I "broke my promise," any suggestions for a response? I know, her saying that is insane for the obvious reasons, so I am tempted to retort from among a thousand cutting retorts.

But I am thinking of something non-committal like "circumstances have changed." (One of which is her unilaterally canceling mediation, among more serious actions like my son being exposed to that pic and then taking him to his domicile, which is something SHE promised she would not do.)

But I suspect your advice to me will be " crickets" or "talk to my attorney."

Again, I don't want to engage in a fight with her.

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

I would have her served, no warning because of her manipulation tactics of late.

When she explodes, your only answer is that when she cancelled mediation, this was the only course of action you had left. Then, walk away, and do no engage again.

I know some will say total NC, but sometimes I think a simple explanation, one line, is a good thing to do. Then ignore the crazy after. You gave her an answer; it isn't your fault she didn't like it.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5485 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Not sure how things work in the States, but if you can have her served by a 3rd party, I'd go for it. You don't need the crazy.

AD, you've been told time & time again to go NC with this woman. You really have no choice but to do it now, in order to avoid any kind of fight. I'm sure your lawyer will tell you what to say if STBX tries to contact you. Expect the crazy to be amped up big-time. It won't matter to you because you will be NC.

You'll be fine, Abbondad. Remember, we've all walked this road. We were all terrified, just like you.

We all survived. You will too.

Good luck today. Stay strong.

Your personal Hell is coming to an end.


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Sending positive vibes for a good meeting with your attorney today. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please plan to do something good for your emotional state immediately after you leave the office. Treat yourself to an icecream or something. Go for a run. Pick a healthy coping strategy. And know you can get through whatever thoughts and feelings come up. Let them come up, let your body and heart process them, then let them go. Breathe! 15 deep breaths always helps me!


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1181 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

1. Have her served by a 3rd party.

2. Crickets. If she actually has the nerve to get angry at you for breaking a promise at this point, why on earth do you think anything you could retort back would even be heard?


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Your personal Hell is coming to an end.

Thank you for that. It's all I have ever wanted.

(In my attorneys waiting room right now.)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Don't worry about her reaction that's not your problem. You broke your word? That's what you are worried about? How about the bazillion times she broke hers?
Have her served, and have absolutely zero contact unless it has to do with the kids.
Hope all goes well today.

((((strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

If you talk to her, you will be "engaging in a fight with her". You stated that you knew our answers to your question (for the most part) would be "crickets".

You can't stop her texts or email, but you should just NOT be TALKING to her. PERIOD. You know this.

If one of the kids is sick..email. If there's a short kid-related message...text.

If you talk to her, you are engaging. It also sounds like you still think that you can talk her into reason. You cannot.

Let her be served. Have her respond, legally to the divorce petition. Or continue to feed into the drama and be miserable.

You know exactly what you need to do. It's just not what you want to do. Well, none of us wanted to do it either. But we did, and we lived.

The crazy doesn't stop until you let it.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1171 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Have her served by a 3rd party. Do NOT tell her in advance. Do NOT hand her the papers yourself - this is a recipe for total disaster for YOU. After she has received the papers, go NC. ANY conversation you have with her will lead to an argument. You have crossed the Rubicon by filing (and that's a GOOD thing, btw), and there is no more mediation, discussion, etc. that can occur between the two of you. Let your attorney do his or her job. That's what your paying for - not only for the attorney's legal expertise, but so that s/he can act as a shield and a barrier between you and your toxic STBX, which is something that you NEED. Please take full advantage of it.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

ooooh, the suspense is killing me!

How did it go, Abbondad?

We're all patiently waiting for your update.

Well?

(no rush )


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

When she levels "you broke your promise" at you, tell her that the M is over and you are ending it in the most humane way you can for both of you. No back and forth, no bullying by her, just lawyers and the law. She wants to not have to pay CS, she wants the house, she wants OM, but you as her safety blanket and back up plan. You are no longer going with her wants.

[This message edited by momentintime at 2:14 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2966 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Sending you strength and peace today AD.


(((((((HUGS)))))))

PM me if you need to. I'll be around today.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

People are allowed to change their mind.

You changed your mind. Period.

But you do need to REALLY learn to STOP talking to her everyday. Truly. I think you are getting better about trying to put your foot down but I think you have this great idea that you 2 can part as friends or whatever....I think when you say "she will get mad" is like you worrying about "hurting" her....and sadly there are no winners in this whole D process.

I do believe however there are parents who once they get passed (way passed) the final D will learn to parent with each other. But I have a feeling you 2 are not there and I hope you are really ready to step back and let the attorney handle all of this and try not to "nice" her into this divorce process.

Good luck and I hope you learned what you needed to in your app't. Its just the beginning.


Posts: 5648 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update.

Great attorney. A pit bull and very knowledgable.

Reassured me that I have "a very strong case."

Said, "Abbondad, with your permission I want to hit her hard."

I said, "Go for it, please."

WW has nothing on me and I have plenty of hard shit against her if she stupidly goes against her lawyers advice and decides to get ugly.

If she does, just let her hang herself. She already has with her actions.

Most damning: the fact that she left her home and kids with me, thus refuting any false allegation against me involving "danger" to the kids, abuse toward her, etc.

Expects I will get all the CS kids are entitled to regardless of her current employment situation and will owe me at least some SS.

What to say to her? Basically talk to my attorney. Ignore as noise anything else she throws at me. (Essentially what all of you have been telling me!;-)

Thanks everyone. That was really hard, but I feel protected. Oh and she was impressed by and pleased with my meticulous record keeping.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Bravo, friend. You have endured the worst of it. Well done. From here on out, the road should be a bit smoother - make no mistake, it WILL get bumpy sometimes, but you've got a good lawyer who will be able to ride it out with you.

I remember how relieved I was after my first meeting with my attorney. I am so happy that you seem to have the same result. Yay Abbondad!!!

Onward!


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Congrats. You have to feel just a bit of relief and some peace now.

See OCD isn't always a bad thing. LOL. Keeping your financials in order is going to help you.
I on the other hand, ADHD, couldn't lay hands on the last 3 years of tax returns without a 2 hours search first, and I know they are all definitely in different places..... Cause that is just how I roll....


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8506 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Mikey56
Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

AD,

You made my day:

Said, "Abbondad, with your permission I want to hit her hard."

I said, "Go for it, please."

Peace brother...


Posts: 114 | Registered: Jan 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Now that I have FINALLY, officially filed--thanks to nearly a year of prodding and pummeling from you wonderful, relentless people ;-) I am starting a new thread to reflect the next step in my saga.

Thanks to everyone for your continuing support!

(Mod, please close this thread)

[This message edited by Abbondad at 4:53 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1617 | Registered: Dec 2012
Topic Posts: 449