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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: boss boundaries
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted in previous topic for advice for tonight which I am going to follow. Now I have more concerns regarding boundaries..

Background: Husband of 5 years admitted to office affair 2 years ago that lasted several months which he told me about 5 months ago.

Current backstory:
My husband started a new job 2.5 hours away which he networked himself into working closely with a former co worker at most recent job. She is an attractive single women and he spends a lot of time with her one on one for training in a high up position. Truth is the new job was absolutely 100% the right career choice for him as it sets him up for life. However his boss makes me nervous. Being that in the past he had office affair I feel like we are at risk for affair again. They are too buddy buddy for my liking. Discussed in counselling boundaries and how it would never be okay for them out of work to have one on one time. Even therapist did scenario 'what would you do if boss asked you for dinner'.. he kinda skirted around it then said he would say 'lets wait until more people can go'. To me I would like him to be able to say its not appropriate but he worries to much about making other people uncomfortable..
So then 2 weeks after this discussion I'm out of town and we were talking. He said his male friend was on date for night (which his male friend and boss are only ones he knows where he is staying during week for work). Later in conversation when I asked what he did for night he told me he was on way back from baseball game. I remembered earlier he told me his male friend had date so I asked who he went with and he told me it was just him and his boss. I became silent while I thought of what I wanted to say and finally I said "I am really uncomfortable with you and your boss going to baseball game alone".. and he got mad at me and called me insecure and conversation didn’t go well.. I was the one who when hung up started to feel bad I was in some way making him "feel bad for being the social butterfly he is"... and now this past weekend she called his phone at 11:45pm on a Friday night. He did not answer prob cause I was sitting next to him.

I'm just so frustrated because he does act very remorseful and loving and caring but then stuff like this happens and I question all. I hate getting on him about it cause every time he does I somehow feel like I'm being to overbearing or unreasonable.. that’s how he makes me feel.. at what point is this crazy.. He makes me feel so incredibly good when he is being attentive but then so crazy feeling at same time. I used to think what we have is worth saving. I can tell it just feels so right when we are together but then these things happen and I am starting to question everything..
I'm not used to being the one thinking its not gonna work.. I am used to him in past not being sure he wants our marriage and I have always been the cheerleader for us that what we have is worth saving and we can get through it.. i feel like my cheer leading days are limited..

I feel that I paint him in a bad light because of course I'm on here to get feedback on problems. He also does amazing things like fly across the country when he was working out of state to surprise me at friends wedding that I was in just so he could dance with me and had to leave after 6 hours.. he paid an arm and a leg to be there since it was important to me and kept it a surprise. He also does so much small thoughtful things. I get so confused.. it feels like two people.. I don't know if I'll ever be the one who walks away but a divorce friend told me (who knows nothing of the affair, no one knows) that 'when enough is enough you will know'. Is this true? everything seems so grey and blurry?


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are similar issues at my work as well. I always knew I had to be cautious about certain relationships...but even more so post-A.

"Social butterfly" may have been who he was as defined by "others" pre-A.....but NOW he needs to be authentically himself.

He most likely is not sure who he is just yet....hell, after 2 years of therapy I am just now starting to understand who blakesteele is! I am meeting parts of myself I didn't know existed. Or I chose to ignore them because they are "not fun" or "pleasant" to look at and admit this is who ALL of me is....and I am not just the "life of the party" guy others have labeled me as.

We are all prone to "being what others expect us to be"....we are influenced by others. The key is to be solid enough in our own authenticity AND have boundaries that display and reinforce that so as to be both socially comfortable yet true to yourself. This means having the courage to show a lot of yourself.


It also means guarding your heart. There are simply some people you should distance yourself from.

God is with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4032 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i feel like my cheer leading days are limited..

This is most likely a healthy feeling. Try not to let it scare you. If you think "if I stop our M will die".....dig hard into that assumption. It was a turning point in my IC. From there I saw just how I "carried" our M. I put that in quotes because MY CoD actions were every bit as destructive to our M as my wifes counter D actions were. But I was under the ILLUSION I was doing more for our M than my wife. All of this subconcious but still influencing me. ($11k in therapy, baby....thats how I know this is our truth.)

Projecting here....but my cheerleader days turned out to be my heavy CoD days. Dreadful really...but I fancied myself oh so caring and considerate.

As I mature past my black and white thinking....there WAS some considerate motivation behind my pre-A activity...but there was a lot of CoD going on too.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:01 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4032 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Feelthrownaway
♀ Member
Member # 33772
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband travels for work. He does not socialize with females.

He didn't want to hurt or insult anyone by saying no. Before his affair he would go out with the captain and if a female went out with them it was ok...now no. Now he makes an excuse if a female wants to go with the group. He no longer shares cabs with females. That is the cost of him cheating with a female from work while traveling.

That was one of the boundaries if he wanted to stay married to me.

Your husband needs to see why this is not acceptable. He cheated at work so no being personal or going out with a female from work. Ask
him if he would be ok if the situation was reversed.


BW- 48
FWH-49
D-day- aug 16,2011
Married 23 years- together 25

What doesn't kill me, scars me.


Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Down South
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wouldn't appreciate my FWH going on a date with his female boss. That is what it was, btw. This wasn't work related, they were alone, it was socializing one on one, in other words, dating. He is married, that is totally inappropriate.

I am going to recommend two things for your WH to read asap, even before "Not Just Friends". One is the thread in the Wayward forum called "Things that every WS needs to know". He doesn't need to read all the comments, but the original post by HUFI-PUFI is a must read for your WS. Print it off and give it to him. I bumped it to the first page of the Wayward forum.

Second is a book called "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. MacDonald. It is a short easy read, only around 100 pages but every page is packed with great information on what your husband needs to do to help you heal.

Your WH has very poor boundaries. He also cares more about others feelings and his feelings more than yours, it sounds like.

It was great that your WH confessed to you. He has that going for him, however, I feel that he has more regret than true remorse. I don't know this of course, but just from what you have posted, that is the feeling I get.

I get the feeling that he thinks "Hey, I confessed, I didn't have to, doesn't that prove I am all in? Lets just sweep this under the rug and move on. I don't really have to make any deep down changes, I won't cheat again!" And, I believe that he believes that he won't cheat again, but he is already going down the "slippery slope" with his boss.

he got mad at me and called me insecure
Of course you are insecure! WTF! Don't let him make you feel bad for feeling insecure. You have every right to feel insecure, especially with his blameshifting attitude. He needs to understand that he is responsible for your feelings of insecurity and it is HIS JOB to restore your feelings of security doing WHATEVER YOU DEEM IT TAKES!

ETA: Do you, and your WH, know how long it takes to heal from infidelity? On average 2-5 years. It has only been 5 months for you. It is a process and a journey to heal from this.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:29 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9801 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Discussed in counseling boundaries and how it would never be okay for them out of work to have one on one time.

He weaseled on you in counseling about keep a boundary that you discussed, then made the decision to go out and socialize with his female co-worker who calls him late at night to talk.

These are not the actions of an amazing WH. They really aren't. Deliberately making the choice to do things that cause you grief and pain, to "go there," to a place that he went before for an A, are not actions of a WH who has your back. He may be giving you some nifty attention and doing some showy actions, but at the end of the day, he's carrying on inappropriate with a female co-worker. He's actively walking down the infidelity slope again and making YOU the bad guy for pointing that out.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4949 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow thank you so much sister milkshake. I read the thread for what every WS should know and it really hit home. Some parts felt as if they were deceiving me exactly. I am going to print and see if my spouse will read certain parts that really explain me..


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying…

My WH travels for business AND works with women.

This was NOT business. This was- we are two people in same town who don't have anyone else here, let's go to a game. This was the rationale. Nothing is going on. We're just friends. See, even my friend came along.

Nope. Doesn't matter how you try to sugar coat it. It's a boundary violation. It is spending time with his boss as a friend. It's building a camaraderie, a friendship, intimacy…

Example:

Recently, my WH and I have been going to the gym a lot together. We don't talk all that much while there. We occasionally lock eyes and smile across the gym. We occasionally work on the same weight machine together. We occasionally joke. We sometimes laugh. We go home.

On the way home the other day, he said to me…. I love that we are working out together. I feel so close to you. It's fun.

There is nothing sexual in our interaction together when we are there. BUT it IS fun and it IS building intimacy. It's brought us closer. It was the time spent together doing something we both enjoy that created a bond.

I tell you this story because what your husband is doing is the same thing. It may not be sexual (yet), but it IS bringing them closer, etc… This is a slippery slope. There is NO room for it in a M.

Don't be bullied into feeling bad or thinking you are insecure.

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 9:45 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jun 2012
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brokensmile322

The point you make about your spouse and the gym and it being fun and building relationship. It is exactly why I am not comfortable with this one on one and texting.. I know they are friends but it is leaving room for feelings to develop. I tried again to talk to him about this last night and was left once again with at the end him stating that he feels like he can't be his true self because it upsets me so he makes so many compromises for me because he wants it to work between us. He told me if it were his way he would be out at happy hour every night with anyone who is good company cause that's who 'he is'.. He then acknowledged that it isn't appropriate to stay out all night and that is why he doesn't. He said that's how he previous affair started.. I'm so confused cause he acknowledges that it is a sloop but then a different time when he does something (ex go to game with boss) and I become paranoid he throws it back in my face saying he isn't being himself..
I try to explain to him 'I want him to be happy. However I do not want him doing things simply to make me happy (if he isn't feeling like himself and happy doing them) because then I'm falsely feeling secure and happy. If he isn't happy doing these things and wanting to do them them my sense of security and happiness is all an illusion, right?


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please get the book previously mentioned…

Not Just Friends

Do it. Now.

Ask him if he would want you texting one on one with a male friend. If the male friend texted at 11 at night? Ask him if he would want you going out to ball games or happy hour or whatever with another male?

Why are u buying his "It's just who I am."?

There is no room for three people in a marriage. It's called triangulation. He's cutting you out. He's creating a wall where you are and opening a window where she is….

Are you in IC?



Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jun 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds to me like your WH wants to live a single lifestyle.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9801 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry not sure what IC abbrev is? Marital counseling? That would be yes and no.. I have gone religiously and he has gone 3 times with me and a few times alone. It has been a month. He is calling to sage duke us a session next week after at attempted conversation last night.
I ordered book and I'm waiting for its arrival. I can't wait. I may just actually buy it and download to phone cause I'm inpatient.
In answer to question 'would he be comfortable with you texting a male? Going out one on one etc?' His answer is always that he wouldn't care and he insists on thAt. However I feel like he wouldn't be okay with it but I don't become close to guy friends like that to put him in the situation. I do have good guy friends but I am would not be comfortable with just us two going out or texting etc.. When I do hang out with my guy friend it is work event, hubby is with me, etc.. Part of me wants to be inappropriate and begin texting 'guy friends' and going out one on one to test him and show him he wouldn't be ok with it but I know that's wrong.


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What your WH seems to conveniently forget is that he fucked another women for months. If you had done that with a man, I KNOW he would feel differently.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9801 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it too. It wouldn't be ok.


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SisterMilkshake - cutting to the chase! ha!
I love your advice!


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5286 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Apparently he needs to be reminded repeatedly what he did. Every time he throws that shit your way you need to tell him that he fucked someone else. Until. He. Gets. It.

And, thats it in a nutshell. He. Doesn't. Get. It.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9801 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Pentup
♀ Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ummmm, HELL NO.
I travel for work. I would never go one on one with a male to anything.

My h who cheated with a coworker has not had lunch or any outside work contact with a female coworker in 7 years! He can if he wants. And I can decide whether I will be here if he does that.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6605 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
peoplepleaser
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. I had to reread that because at first I thought this happened before DDay. I can't believe he thinks that was ok and then thought it was ok to attack you for it. You aren't killing his image as a social butterfly. You are changing the impression that he's available. He need to embrace that. So he doesn't want to make others uncomfortable? How is it not ok to make others uncomfortable, but totally ok to make you uncomfortable after what he did to you?

At false R after a month separation five months out, my WS insisted she be able to have private texts with a few friends because I couldn't "have her soul." I walked out and reinstated the terms of our separation immediately. It turned out that those "friends of the relationship" were trashing me with her. Don't he afraid to have deal breakers and stick to them. Research the 180 so you can implement it when you are ready.

[This message edited by peoplepleaser at 1:42 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]


WS: 39--2 EAs
BS: 39--me, faithful
DS: 6
9 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 713 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
annb
♀ Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My h who cheated with a coworker has not had lunch or any outside work contact with a female coworker in 7 years
!

^^^Same for me, trying22, except it is 9 years for me. If there are women involved, he does not go. Period. No lunches, dinners, nada, ever again. He has absolutely no issue with this boundary.

In addition, no personal conversations with women. No chit chat at the coffee machine or water cooler. Strictly professional.

A one-on-one, I'd be serving him divorce papers.

He went to the funeral today where OW was when you asked him not to. He would not allow you to go with him. He goes to a baseball game with his single female boss. He is living the life of a single man basically without an accountability to anyone.

trying22, I hope you are not feeling as though we are throwing too many 2 x 4's, we have all experienced this pain and many of us have been on this site for years. Your husband is not remorseful. We don't want you to get hurt any further.


Posts: 7593 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
trying22
♀ Member
Member # 44592
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok kW everyone is just looking out for me. I feel crazy because in a way I'm hoping and praying for someone to tell me we are going to be okay.. The consensus is always that he's not remorseful and I do believe it but I don't want to.. I am so mad at myself for not being able to just stop letting him manipulate me..


Me-33 BS Him-32WS
Married 5 years
Office affair lasting 9 months in 2012
When he told me Feb 2014

Posts: 54 | Registered: Aug 2014
Topic Posts: 24
Pages: 1 · 2

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