Once it is identified, it is a wait and see to observe tangible actions that show a movement toward real chang
and it's torture for the BS. I say this as a WW. I didn't think I needed boundaries after my affair. So I drank a few cocktails with a few girlfriends at a hotel and didn't keep myself safe. And my husband knew this and all he could do was wait for the train to crash again. Pure torture I say...
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”
We're later in game. They should know better. We should respond better.
I think that in my situation, what has always lacked has been my consequences for his boundary breaches. Every time I went to talk through one of these, we would spend an hour or so with his minimizations and counter accusations before he would get "beat down" and "depressed" and admit he blew it.
Instead of turning over a new leaf, I'm realizing that sullen resentment is more often the response after these encounters.
So, the new question should be, "What are MY boundaries and MY limitations?"
You know he shouldn't be friends with Sally. He knows he shouldn't be friends with her. He does it anyway. Is the "consequence" that you work through it with MC. Again? Again again?
Frustrated for you. Here with you.
[This message edited by Jrazz at 4:38 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]
Our MC was intent, without being hostile, in "how is it you did not think this was wrong?" She kept coming back to this. The best he could come up with was that it was a slide from work to the other stuff that they had talked about AT work the week before. And the texting, seeming so innocuous. And that he felt so differently now, different than he has ever felt prior in our M. That his boundaries were where they had never been before. (the complacency I had mentioned)
I will say that now that this has been clearly laid on the table another such incident would have him out of the house. I thought it was clear before, but I have a neutral observer this time!
I told him that I need for the M to be protected. We do not have to be joined at the hip, but the M must be protected from ALL interlopers. That's what I need to feel safe.
He has agreed completely. But of course we will see!
And he has no friends outside of work and no male friends at all.
Sounds like he is: a) not very good at making friends to be honest; b) he confuses his working relationships as friendships; c) is currently, if ever, unable to have a non-nuanced friendship with a woman. I.e. It is not clear if he actually knows how to do friendship.
More positively, could he be encouraged to take up a hobby that increases his social life, his independence (from you), and offers opportunities for male friendships, and more couple friendships for you both? So he can get more confident and practised on the matter, and feel the difference?
I have encouraged him to ride with the local guys on their weekly bike rides. These are decent, middle aged guys. He joked with his (previous) IC that I wanted him to have "old, fat guys" as friends instead of the young women at his work. Ha ha. Well, fucking yeah! I have middle aged women as MY friends! I don't hang out with 20 something guys!
This is a topic which we will continue to broach. The MC said that she feels that he needs to "take a hit" on having work friendships with women. She pointed out that I had lost big time from the A, and the M had lost, and that he needed to lose too. So I asked him if he would like to cultivate some friendships and he wasn't sure.
Thanks for your input!
He joked with his (previous) IC that I wanted him to have "old, fat guys" as friends instead of the young women at his work.
Not much of a joke - I know blokes like him,unable to accept their age, hanging round with all these younger women. Sleazy and creepy. Does he not see that?
[This message edited by Edie at 6:21 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]
What are YOUR boundaries that you are not going to let him cross again? Do you know?
I know that what HL did was crossing my boundaries, and it is the last time he will ever do it again. He knows this and I know this. He gets no second chances to cross my boundaries now that I have them.
Tired girl I think I am clarifying my own boundaries; didn't think that I needed to!
Thanks for sharing. Why is this so common??
At about 4 years out, my FWH deleted an entire text stream between he and a female coworker. I really thought it was the end. I was d.o.n.e. with trying to police him. We went to see his IC together, while he tried to get me not to divorce him. I think this was THE FINAL FUCK UP for him to get what I thought he'd gotten all along. I think he got comfortable, let some old habits creep in, justified it (she wasnt a danger because she was a lesbian) and then had the cold icebath of reality dumped on his head.
I hope he never gets too comfortable again, because I don't now that I would give another shot. Im not his mommy. I'd rather be alone than go through this shit any more.
I hope this will be IT for him. It isn't hard to do, you know?
Exhausted, I read your profile--too familiar--ugh!
Thanks for sharing. Why is this so common??
Thats the million dollar question, isn't it? I will offer you some comfort with this - once he "got" it, REALLY got it, and shifted his thinking, everything changed. We moved (again) to a new city last summer, and I see him forming much healthier work relationships and no longer needing to be the most popular guy in the room. I will probably forever keep an eye, and I will definitely always speak up if I feel uncomfortable, but it's his job to maintain his boundaries. I will never again compromise myself for his ego.
think he got comfortable, let some old habits creep in, justified it (she wasnt a danger because she was a lesbian) and then had the cold icebath of reality dumped on his head.
Ugh! And slight t/j...
Going through this currently myself with someone from FWH work who is way too familiar and jovial with him over text. I too got the "it's ok, she's a lesbian!" As if that makes it ok or even relevant.
So frustrating. I'm sorry you're struggling with boundary issues. It really shouldn't be this hard!!