Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Makeitstop85 (44953)

Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Aargh! Help please; sorry-long
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So our reconciliation has been going quite well and my H has been much more giving, present and loving. But more and more lately I am realizing that some of his other behaviors have not changed and do not seem to be moving towards change. Those behaviors are procrastination, rationalization and unwillingness to admit fault. The last two, along with his selfishness, went a long way towards allowing him to have an almost four year LTA, so I really feel unsafe with those continued behaviors.

It's also important for this discussion to know that he has always been very lazy around the house and resentful of being asked to help, so over the years I have taken over almost all the chores, either doing them myself or hiring them out. We are both owners of our individual practices, I actually make more money than he does, yet I do basically everything. He takes out the garbage and empties the dishwasher. I do the rest, including bills, car maintenance, touch up painting, you name it. One story illustrates this dynamic. I was getting ready to pick up the kids from school one day and noticed I had a flat tire, and the lug nuts were put on with a machine and I couldn't get them off. AAA was an hour out, so I called my H to come home (10 minutes away) to help. He stormed home, changed the flat, and then left, telling me that he hoped I wouldn't expect him to "rescue me all the time". Message received.

I have discussed the procrastination here before and we have with the MC. My H agreed to the strategy of being careful that when he commits to doing something he really means it, and then making a plan to get it done. For example, he got a book on procrastination and agreed to read 5 chapters a week until he was done, with the understanding that I wouldn't "nag" him about it, but was allowed to ask about it occasionally (any time I ask him about one of the rare things he has promised to do and he hasn't done it he gets angry and feels "nagged" or criticized). So, guess what. He gave up even the pretense of reading the book months ago. When I would ask him about it, he always had excuses. "I like to do it at work", then, just hours after telling me how slow it had been at work that winter he would tell me he didn't have time to do it at work. When I pointed that out he got pissed off.

Over the years I have pointed out to him that he is rationalizing these things, making excuses. Of course that gets me nowhere. He seems literally incapable of just saying that he failed to do something. It's as if he admitted to this tiny failure he would BE a failure. Or if he had a bad behavior he WAS bad. I suspect his CSA/FOO has a lot to do with this, but it allowed him to live with his LTA, along with a fair amount of other crap and I just can't abide by it anymore.

So, after this long preamble (sorry!)--about a month ago I pointed out to my H that there was a screw loose on a cabinet door and it seemed to be stripped. I had tightened it repeatedly and I opined it may need wood glue or something. As new and improved H he said he would fix it. So....Also, several weeks ago we got new carpet in our bedroom and had to move all the clothes out of our closets. I asked him to help me move my clothes back in that night, and although he bitched and moaned about how he didn't want to do it that night (and repeated that several times) I just calmly continued to expect his help and after 5 minutes the chore was completed. His clothes, however, remain piled in our son's room. I asked him to move them before our son came to visit, but....So this morning as we were getting ready to go swimming I asked him to explain his thought processes around chores that he as agreed to do. And he said that he doesn't tend to think of them. And I reminded him of the chores that he had promised he would do for me and that it is disappointing me when he doesn't do them. He said that he hates to disappoint me but that he just doesn't have time to do the chores. And the new improved me decided to call bullshit. I said that that is just not true, that he does have time. And he got angry and said, "fine, so I won't go swimming, I'll just stay home and do chores!". This is a tactic he has used before, since he knows how we both value our training. I said that that was being manipulative and he accused me of being manipulative. Then he went downstairs, and I saw him with a screwdriver. Later I asked him what he had done with the screw and he said he had tightened it. I told him that I had done that repeatedly and it wasn't holding.

So then I went outside and tried to take deep breaths. I realized that I was fighting a battle with myself. I so wanted to drop it and keep the peace. I realized that that was how I had behaved for years and years and I just mentally shook myself and said "no more". So I told my H that this was an unhealthy dynamic and he agreed. (turns out we had different definitions of "unhealthy").

We had to drive separately to the pond and we spoke on the phone. I started to tell my H that I needed him to look deeper into the rationalization, etc, and he interrupted and told me that I had "emasculated him" by criticizing how he fixed the screw. At this point I just lost it and told him that I wanted to throw the phone and bawl. I told him that I really needed him to dig deeper and he said he needed to think about it and we left it at that.

I am at the point that I know that I can't continue to accept this, and we do have a new MC we will meet with in a few weeks time that I'm hoping will help. But...what if he can't do this? What if he continues to be semi-improved but some of the old coping mechanisms remain? I do fear that eventually he will cheat again, since he still can convince himself that he lacks fault for his behaviors, but also I am tired of stifling myself, my needs and feelings. And if I don't we will likely fight, he will withdraw, etc. So what is the alternative? Do I leave him for this, after staying after infidelity? I am so conflicted.

Thanks for any insights you may have.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've been here a while. Just some thoughts from a sorta newbie.

I don't think many people D because of the affairs. The affair is just the final nail in the coffin.

Let me ask you this. How often (if ever) did D cross your mind before the A? If the answer is very often maybe you already know you deserve better. So then ask yourself why you didn't D already.

My FWW is forgetful. VERY forgetful. She's always mixing up dates and times. There are tools to help her but she doesn't use them. It drives me bonkers. Before her A I rarely thought of D. Actually I don't think I ever did. But now after the A's, I expect better or I will D.

The way I figure it R is not a gift, it's an exchange. I give you R, you give me XY&Z. If you fail to give me Y, you broke the contract. Just like your vows. You can say give me Y right away, or, you can do what I did.

"I'm altering the deal. Give me Y & W immediately and pray I don't alter it further."


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Catlover, I'm sorry you are experiencing this.

Have you read about passive aggressiveness? Your husband sounds PA to me. It's sooooo frustrating and crazy-making to live with someone who is PA.

This article explains the behavior well: http://www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm

A couple good books on the subject are Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man: Coping with Hidden Aggression by Scott Wetzler (for you) and Overcoming Passive-Aggression: How to Stop Hidden Anger from Spoiling Your Relationships, Career and Happiness by Tim Murphy (for him). The problem is getting him to read it. You can't control what he does or doesn't do, only what you do.

My husband was very passive aggressive and for me personally, I will never live with that again. If the old behaviors come back and he wasn't open to seriously working on them, he'd be gone. My deal breakers are not just another affair.

Your husband has not seen that he has a problem in that area that needs to be worked on. He's resisting that. Hopefully he can see it at some point.

(((((catlover))))


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Catlover, I'm sorry. Ugh.

I like what MindMonkey had to say, a lot.

I do think that these patterns of behavior are the background that enabled his affair. He must address them. Whether this is more than just conflict avoidance or passive agressive behavior, I do not know. Has he discussed these things with his IC? Real passive aggressives are a danger in a relationship.

I'm proud of you for trying to alter your side of the dynamic. Sometimes that is all it takes to create real change. I like that you didn't back down. His comments are manipulations designed to get you to back off when he is uncomfortable. Frankly, when he's saying things about the book reading? Those are lies. He is still comfortable lying to you to protect himself. Danger, Will Robinson.

Who cares if he gets angry? Let him. He isn't a 7 year old. What's going to happen if he is mad? I think it would be good for him to feel some real emotions and find out how to manage them. Keep altering the dynamic. Keep pushing back. Keep telling him your needs. I think you are on the right track, I just don't know how long it will take to get a change out of him. If he can change.

Would I divorce my spouse if I didn't see some core changes? Yes, I would have.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all! Thank goodness for SI!

I just want to tell him to fix his shit. Let him figure out how. And keep my own boundaries. Ha won't like that, but oh well.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
tfkeel
♂ Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


he has always been very lazy around the house and resentful

"The most reliable predictor of a person's future behavior is his relevant past behavior." - Dr. Phil


I don't think many people D because of the affairs.
The affair is just the final nail in the coffin.

For me, it wasn't the "final nail", but it was the "permission", and
the "2 X 4 of insight".

I was raised in the "bible belt". I had grown to believe that
adultery was a "ground" for divorce. But "mental cruelty" wasn't.

I was playing a "game" in which "not divorcing" was the goal, instead
of "having marriage".


I realized that I was fighting a battle with myself
I know that I can't continue to accept this

That was the "final nail".


I do fear that eventually he will cheat again,
since he still can convince himself that he lacks fault for his behaviors

You are absolutely correct. Your fear is grounded in truth.
It is his self-rationalization which caused the infidelity, and if
it goes untreated and uncorrected, the likelihood is that he will
cheat again.


I am tired of stifling myself, my needs and feelings.
And if I don't we will likely fight, he will withdraw, etc.

See Dr. Phil above.


Do I leave him for this, after staying after infidelity?

I took quite a while to figure this out myself. I did not "leave" because
of the infidelity, I left because of the "this".

Because the infidelity was a "symptom" and not the disease. It was the
disease that remained unchanged, and the disease which caused my pain in the marriage.


I just want to tell him to fix his shit. Let him figure out how. And keep my own boundaries. Ha won't like that, but oh well.

Your own advice is stellar...

Give yourself permission to leave if your boundaries include "my needs and feelings" continuing to be stifled.

I found other ways to get them met, other than my wife.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 11:18 AM, July 18th (Friday)]


Posts: 440 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to tell him to fix his shit. Let him figure out how. And keep my own boundaries. Ha won't like that, but oh well.

I think this is a very healthy place for you to be! Down with co-dependancy!!

I straight up told mine, "I'm not your therapist, discuss it with her. But be mindful, I'm not going to wait forever." Get a move on, bro!


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
ShiningAutumn8
Member
Member # 42558
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with above posters, that you need to move the focus more on your own feelings and needs and actions, and less on making him change, analyzing him, directing his path, etc.

I agree he is still lying, and still passive aggressive and resentful. He states he feels emasculated. That probably stems from you trying so hard to direct his actions, drive his healing, etc.

Its difficult b/c on the one hand you have to express your needs but on the other hand, you don't want to control.

Ideally he would be volunteering and willingly giving you what you need.

he has always been very lazy around the house and resentful

What is he resentful about?


Posts: 373 | Registered: Feb 2014
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He was resentful if he was asked to do anything around the house.

My IC suspects the CSA caused him to stop developing emotionally at around the teenage level. That's what it feels like I'm living with sometimes.

He only felt "emasculated" because I didn't praise his half assed home repair. It was meant to shut me up.

I wrote him an email and he replied that he would do whatever it takes. We shall see.

Thanks for all the insight and support!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Althea
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Catlover, I know that when I tell my WH to "dig deeper" I can be sure that anything I say after or said before is washed out by that one comment. It turns everything into "you're not good enough." Instead of pointing to all of the ways he isn't doing what you want him to do (i.e. chores), look at your own feelings. This is a good place to start:

I am at the point that I know that I can't continue to accept this...what if he can't do this? What if he continues to be semi-improved but some of the old coping mechanisms remain? I do fear that eventually he will cheat again, since he still can convince himself that he lacks fault for his behaviors, but also I am tired of stifling myself, my needs and feelings. And if I don't we will likely fight, he will withdraw, etc.

Try communicating these fears, minus the threat of D.

ETA

If you have communicated these fears; it sounds like this needs to be a boundary for you, and should be communicated that way. If he breaks the boundary, then you have another decision to make.

[This message edited by Althea at 12:56 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What exactly does he mean by "do whatever it takes"? Does he have a plan in mind?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4869 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good question, tired girl. I replied that I needed him to figure out how he made it okay (always, since I met him) that "I want" and "I don't want" were as far as he went. He never seemed to concern himself about what was right or wrong but would justify and defend, aggressively if necessary, his actions. So after a lifetime of wanting the last cookie and not wanting to do chores, he was able to "want" to fuck a woman besides his wife and "not want" to be honest about it, with about the same amount of introspection.

I asked him to figure that out, likely with help, whatever it took, so that I could feel safe with him. I also said that I did not want to be involved unless he asked for help.

We will see if he is up to the task. He has been protecting himself for a very long time.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Topic Posts: 12

Return to Forum: Reconciliation Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.