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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Loss of legitimacy
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I'm struggling with R on many levels. Have been for months. I'm starting to think that the A was actually a deal-breaker after all. There are so very many issues that are tripping me up, but I thought I would raise just one of them here today.

Since I found out about the A I have had this feeling that my marriage is no longer "legitimate", it's a difficult thing to describe, but I feel as though, because my husband turned his back on our marriage, and committed adultery, our marriage is no longer "real" or "proper", it's a fake, I'm a fraud to go around claiming to be married. I wish I could articulate it better...

When my H bought this house in November he had to produce his marriage certificate and I was truly embarrassed to hand it over as it felt like it was a complete sham. A fraudulent legal document.

It's weird, I have this friend who is in a miserable marriage, her husband treats her with disrespect in public, he clearly has no loving feelings towards her at all.. it's blindingly obvious, he's plain horrible to her all the time. I used to feel such pity for her. Now I feel ashamed of my marriage when I am with her, inside I feel that her marriage is more valid than mine, because her husband may be a pig of a man, but her marriage isn't nullified by infidelity. I know that doesn't really make sense, but it's genuinely how I feel.

To me, fidelity is one of the core structures within a marriage and once that is gone, it's like the entire marriage can no longer support itself.

It's like I have discovered my marriage is a fake - it's a cubic zirconia, when all along it pretended to be a diamond!

Anyone else experience this? Thoughts?

[This message edited by ItsaClimb at 6:39 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1024 | Registered: Oct 2012
sohurtbyhim
♀ Member
Member # 33057
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Itsclimb)))

Yes, so often I feel that my marriage is a sham too. When people ask how long I've been married, I hate telling them 34 years because I hear them say Wow!!!!! Congratulations!!!!! But in my heart, I don't think of it as an accomplishment because I feel as if I'm married legally only.

When I do have the occasional "good day" though, I try to think of it differently. I try to think that Wow!!! We've gone through one of the worst things that a marriage can go through and survived. We're still together. I wish I had more days like that.


Me - BS
Him - WH
Married 30 Years
D-Day #1 August 17, 2010
D-Day #2 October 19, 2010
D-Day #3 February 12, 2011

Posts: 305 | Registered: Aug 2011
Lowlow
♀ Member
Member # 38653
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yup, me too. I feel like a walking contradiction. I'm "married" but I don't feel "married". Marriage vows are quite simple actually. Both partners agree to forsake all others. Our WSs couldn't do that. They just couldn't be compassionate enough to identify their wants, needs or issues with us. Instead of walking out on us (if they truly couldn't communicate with us) then as a second option, they could have just left us. I mean, that's the humane thing to do (if you can't communicate your needs) isn't it?

Instead, WSs slapped us in the face. They broke their vows. In my case, WS chose time and time again to betray me... in my own house, my car, our place of work... He treated me like dirt, that I wasn't good enough for him.

You are damn right I feel like I"m in an illegitimate marriage right now. Marriage partners care and communicate with one another. They do not cheat, betray, sneak around, love and fuck other people. They just don't. That's not love. No one can tell me that he loved me at the time he was doing those things. It's not possible to love someone and do those awful, horrible, soul-destroying things to your mate.

And then they expect us to forgive and reconcile? Yah, I know where you are. As someone else here more eloquently said, if your business partner lied, cheated, snuck around and betrayed your confidence, would you still do business with this person?

A sane person would not. A sane person would take his/her investments and run. Close or leave the business. Go and find another job or start a new business.

Clearly, I'm not sane.... which is why nothing about affairs is rational. The insane part is us considering taking them back. Which is why I'm continually amazed that 1) there are so many success stories on SI; and 2) that despite my brain screaming for me to run, I'm giving him another chance.

I hope I'm a good investor the second time around.


Me (BS) 42 Him (FWS) 43
AP#2 (LTA EA/PA) DD #1 16 Feb 2013
AP#1 (LTA EA with my BF) DD #2 16 Nov 2013
Married 11 years, T 19 years
Reconciling

Posts: 237 | Registered: Mar 2013
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

even as a WH I understand this. I broke my vows. I did not love, honor, or cherish my BS in those actions. The current M is a broken contract. For us, if my BS gets to a point and feels safe again. Then we will renew our vows into a new contract. But the current rings are only a guard against questioning from our DC, in-laws, and friends. And our M is only still legal for financial/insurance aspects of it. But the reality for us is: That M is dead.

One thing I would be cautious of though, is making assumptions of that friends marriage. You may just not know what is going on behind closed doors. And she may be thinking the same thing when looking at you.

I am sorry for you loss. But I do think it is valuable on your road to healing. but that's JMHO


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

I do not PM with Women


Posts: 746 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsaclimb,
I understand your feelings, and I have them in a slightly different form. Right now we are on a trip that involves a lot of places from our past, and people from our past. I feel some loss of our history, some delegitimization, because of what my husband did. Like, when we tell the stories of how we met, and where we lived, I feel like, at least temporarily, that they are different stories now. It has made me a little sad.

However, and our MC has helped a lot with this, overall I see us as imperfect people, who have been together a long time, and shared a lot. This affair was an incredibly painful bump in our road that will have repercussions for a while yet. However, it was only a chapter in our story. And, the things we have learned and are doing to improve our marriage as a result of it have been invaluable. It was a crisis point, mainly for my husband. But, rather than a negating incident, I hope to see the aftermath of the affair as a reaffirming of our decision to be together.

So, if you can't look it in a less black and white way, maybe you need to redo your vows, or have some kind of reaffirmation. You certainly need to feel a way to put aside the affair eventually, regardless. Some people look at it as an old marriage/new marriage thing, and that helps them. But I would caution you against seeing something imperfect as being unworthy, unless it really is. Becasue really, no relationship is perfect, and if half or more of marriages have infidelity in them anyway, it is going to be hard to find perfection.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 7:46 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Notmetoo2011
♀ Member
Member # 32912
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ItsaClimb

I feel exactly the same way.

This

To me, fidelity is one of the core structures within a marriage and once that is gone, it's like the entire marriage can no longer support itself.

and this

It's like I have discovered my marriage is a fake - it's a cubic zirconia, when all along it pretended to be a diamond!

We are trying to R but more and more I feel like this was a deal breaker for me. I just feel like such a fake. Somedays I feel like I need to divorce him to give closure to the old marriage and then maybe we can try and R.


Me-BW 49
SAWH 51
Married 27 years.
4 children
D-Day 26/07/11
Multiple PAs, ONS, Porn
In limbo land

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jul 2011
jupiter13
♀ Member
Member # 40999
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel the same way. We are married in name only all other appearances are the acts of our roles. The marriage contract was very simple once broken there is no way to say it's better now after R. The thing is since the wh has broken all these vows why must us BS feel we need to stand by our vows. In any other business contracts this does not apply. Besides to what benefit does the BS get from broken vows these are promises that can never be made again under a new contract if that is what you want. I am struggling with the facts Inwill ne ver get the promises of my vows in this marriage. I will not get any emotional support or care from my WH. That if I remain in this marriage I will never be able tontrust or respect him as I did before and can I live with that. Can I live with someone who promised so many things and has broken every one. He has not lost anything he willingly destroyed. While I have lost everything I cared about and am I willing to settle for something less than I deserve simply because I love this person that cares so little for me. No there is no guarantee s but if the past is a lifetime of a pattern never changed it's a sure bet nothing is really going to change it the future except more time wasted on this hurtful journey.

Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Modesto
HighlandPaddy
♂ Member
Member # 43930
Suspicious  Posted: 1:04 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vows? what vows! I do feel as if my marriage is a joke right now...and want to run for the hills!!

Problem is, that I will get home tonight and she will look at me with those beautiful blue eyes and I melt. I lose my will, and any sense of backbone....before I know it, I'm apologizing for being to difficult and telling her I love her....then I wake up the next morning and I'm asking myself WTF!??


So live your life that fear of death can never enter your heart.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: NY
lostworld
♀ Member
Member # 19197
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember feeling very similarly. Regularly questioning if my whole M had been real in any meaningful sense. I'd look at pictures and just be astonished that we seemed so happy and united then; it felt like someone else's life, or worse yet, like my H was just posing as a loving husband and father until the day he would throw us to the curb. It really left me feeling rootless. Then, thank God, year 3 hit and things began to make more sense to me. I started to see that, for me, things didn't have to be "either or"...they could be "and." Now I am like some others who have come to feel that the A was the worst chapter in my marital book, but there were many many wonderful chapters before that one, and there will be many more following it.

It sounds like this is only one of the difficulties you're facing in R. I don't imagine it's easy to settle this issue while so many others are also stalking you. Can you begin to separate issues out and work on each one a bit at a time? You may well be right that this was a dealbreaker for you, but if this M is what you truly want, I hope that you find some joy and peace as work and time continue.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
Married 30 yrs. w/ 2 grown kids
Dday 1: Very early 2007
Dday 2: Mid 2008 (same MOW, 14 month false R)
R'd
The affair was the aberration, not the marriage or the man.

Posts: 817 | Registered: Apr 2008
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember running across my marriage license about a year post dday and started to rip it up...I couldn't do it...wanted to so bad, but just couldn't do it...not really sure why. I can't seem to rectify the idea that you can't nullify a 40 year relationship, a 40 year life together, but that what I considered to be the M just really isn't anymore. It also makes me uncomfortable when people say wow...you've only been married to each other and for 35 years! I have never been one to view legal marriage as the only way...I know people who are in committed long relationships who are just as "married" but it sort of makes me sad that I view M as a joke b/c I want to be happy for the young people I know who are getting married. I have thought maybe we should legally end the M and start over...then I wonder would we do it again...would we remarry??? I don't think I would b/c if I had a crystal ball and could have known this would happen before we married, I wouldn't have. I know some people divorce and remarry or renew vows and it really is a new start, but I don't think I would feel any different. The whole thing just leads me to ask questions... what is marriage? has my marriage died or just changed?...has our relationship really changed...he has always had the potential to cheat...he has apparently never had the respect for me to be honest with me.

Itsaclimb...YOU should not be embarrassed...first, you did not betray your vows...second, the legal aspect of the document is just that...the emotional and spiritual aspect of M is separate.


Posts: 606 | Registered: Nov 2010
WabiSabi
♀ Member
Member # 43489
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, July 17th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ItsaClimb, I feel this way, too, and just poured through all the responses to find reassurance. lostworld, I'm happy and sad by what you wrote. That it got better for you, but it took three years!! That just feels impossible to get to right now. I have no foundation and I keep searching for solidness to cling to.

Posts: 116 | Registered: May 2014
lostworld
♀ Member
Member # 19197
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j
WabiSabi, I know 3 years seems like forever, and that you'll never make it that far, but think about how much time has already passed. I was so busy working through everything and all the different emotions during those years that they amazingly went very quickly. It helped to stop periodically and evaluate where I was in the process and to enjoy any amount of progress we had made. Hang in there and try not to look too far ahead--one day at a time and one foot in front of the other, and sooner than you think, you'll be in a place much better than where you are now. Hugs.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
Married 30 yrs. w/ 2 grown kids
Dday 1: Very early 2007
Dday 2: Mid 2008 (same MOW, 14 month false R)
R'd
The affair was the aberration, not the marriage or the man.

Posts: 817 | Registered: Apr 2008
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for your replies.

questioning if my whole M had been real in any meaningful sense. I'd look at pictures and just be astonished that we seemed so happy and united then; it felt like someone else's life, or worse yet, like my H was just posing as a loving husband and father until the day he would throw us to the curb. It really left me feeling rootless.

^^ this is exactly the way I feel. "rootless" pretty much sums it up.

I'm feeling that this, and many of my other issues are things that I am basically just going to have to learn to live with and accept. Hopefully as time goes by it will be easier. Perhaps what has got me feeling so upset right now is that with the end of Year 2 only 1 month away, I would have thought I would be feeling a whole lot better. It boggles my mind that 2 years after D-Day I would still be in so much pain.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1024 | Registered: Oct 2012
WabiSabi
♀ Member
Member # 43489
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostworld… thank you.

ItsaClimb… we have lost so much. And so many of us feel the same it's almost as if there's some formula to this whole thing that is bigger and stronger than we are as individuals. The struggle is awful. The options are awful. The pain is awful. I cling to two things… 1. I'm not alone, this is not abnormal; and 2. Others further out promise it will get better if we keep doing our part in sorting through the mess and making the efforts to heal.

It's so arduous I can't imagine going through this, alone, without the Internet and the camaraderie of SI. I wish I could at least send you the energy of a hug. I read your post about seeing your H as A (working hard and being wonderful) and B (the cruel monster that ripped your heart out). I'm paraphrasing your post with how I view my H, but that post was very powerful to me. I felt relief through knowing someone shared my hell.


Posts: 116 | Registered: May 2014
hopefull77
♀ Member
Member # 43221
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also remember saying for better or for worse in those vows....speaking only for myself...my marriage is not a sham....way too many things happened in these 37 years of marriage....they count ...we are still writing this book....
keep writing yours!


me-BS
him-WS
3 adult children 1D 2S
married-1977
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr



Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
HighlandPaddy
♂ Member
Member # 43930
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks hopefull77...those words are just what I needed right now. I've been on the verge of just packing my bags and hitting the road...For better or for worse...I'm gonna stick it out.


So live your life that fear of death can never enter your heart.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: NY
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopeful...you said it...over 40 together...so much...good and bad....but this A WAS the worst...a while back, someone was awed at our long relationship, my H jokingly said "Yea, I just can't get rid of her" I blurted out "but it is not from lack of trying" That would have been funnier to me 5 years ago.

Posts: 606 | Registered: Nov 2010
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Besides to what benefit does the BS get from broken vows these are promises that can never be made again under a new contract if that is what you want.

^^^^^^So well phrased. And, I feel the same.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1455 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a while back, someone was awed at our long relationship, my H jokingly said "Yea, I just can't get rid of her" I blurted out "but it is not from lack of trying" That would have been funnier to me 5 years ago.

I agree, I wouldn't find that comment very funny, either.

He could have said something like We've lasted so long because my spouse is strong and resilient and forgiving of my faults.

Instead he says something flippant.

My spouse says similar insensitive things, when people comment on how we seem to be the perfect couple.

It sickens me when someone refers to us as the perfect couple. I feel like an actor.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1455 | Registered: May 2014
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm feeling that this, and many of my other issues are things that I am basically just going to have to learn to live with and accept.

Unfortunately that pretty much sums up what it's like for a BS who wants to reconcile. It is not fair. None of this is fair. We have to learn to live with and accept a lot of things that we shouldn't have had to. You have to do what works for you.

I'm in the camp that the old marriage is dead. I have a hard time even telling people how long we've been married because I no longer count. But truth be told, I wasn't someone who kept track well before dday either. It wasn't of great importance to me then either. There's been a definitive split for me, of pre-affair being married X# of years and then add to that X# of years post-affair to make up the total overall number. The # pre-affair doesn't hold fond memories for me. It feels fake and false. My *2nd* marriage is the one I'm focusing on. This one matters more because both of us are putting a lot more effort forth.

Hopefully as time goes by it will be easier. Perhaps what has got me feeling so upset right now is that with the end of Year 2 only 1 month away, I would have thought I would be feeling a whole lot better. It boggles my mind that 2 years after D-Day I would still be in so much pain.

FWIW, ItsaClimb, Year 2 was hard. A very hard time. I thought more about divorce in Year 2 than I did in Year 1. It wasn't till into Year 3 that I could feel and see change happening towards acceptance and peace.

((((ItsaClimb))))

[This message edited by DixieD at 12:00 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Growing forward

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