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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: letting go of the outcome vs. giving up hope
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a discussion today with my BS.

As to why I don't look at her when she is angry with me. (which I have agreed to work harder on) I told her when I see the pain in her eyes I feel that this may be a deal breaker no matter what. And that I lose hope. 2 things came to mind.

1. This reaffirmed to me why a WS has to heal for themselves, because in all reality this is likely a deal breaker.

2. A question. Do I need to give up on hope in order to progress?

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks in advance.


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, you have to heal for yourself not because this could be a dealbreaker, but because you need to be a person you can be proud of.

You need to let go of the outcomes here, not lose hope. Two different things. Letting go of the outcomes means you stop trying to control what happens. You only take care of your side of the fence.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, you have to heal for yourself not because this could be a dealbreaker, but because you need to be a person you can be proud of.

I get that, it just reminded me that any actions based on the BS. Could eventually become null and void in the deal-breaker scenario.


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you feel that this is likely a deal breaker?

Also, make sure that when you see pain in her eyes that you don't turn away from that. When you do that, you are making it about you instead of letting it be about her. I know this is hard, but it is a small thing that you can do to be there for her in her times of distress.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you feel that this is likely a deal breaker?

That is her biggest fear. She has come back to that several times. It is a very real possibility.


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is very early on in this process. D was a very real possibility for me for two years. I only recently took it off the table and put both feet in my marriage. Luckily my H chose to focus on himself and not what I was doing.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
eremite
♀ New Member
Member # 41769
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

any actions based on the BS. Could eventually become null and void in the deal-breaker scenario.
Whatever the relationship outcome, you will still have done those actions.
You always have the choice:
Do you do them whole-heartedly, according to your personal values and a desire to acknowledge and honour your BS? In which case you can be proud of what you did, no matter the outcome.
Or are those actions external to you, a kind of gamble to gain you something in your relationship? If it then doesn’t work out, you have indeed wasted an opportunity.

Is your hope a fantasy? or is it something that guides you through?


(BS)

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: UK
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tired girl
It is very early on in this process. D was a very real possibility for me for two years. I only recently took it off the table and put both feet in my marriage.

I remind myself of this, and it was only about 10 days ago she declared that she wanted to attempt R

eremite

Do you do them whole-heartedly, according to your personal values and a desire to acknowledge and honour your BS?

I do them for me. My thought was a reassurance of that. Of how important it is to do them for me. Regardless of the outcome, the strengthening of personal values.

Is your hope a fantasy? or is it something that guides you through?

I would say more of a guide, holding onto a glimmer of light in the darkness. My hope is that at the other side of this. There will be 2 people that were broken, and have become whole again. And a marriage that was broken, restored. That is my hope.
Am I being controlling? No.
Have I left go of the outcome? I think Yes.

Is continuing to hope too focused on the outcome?


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is continuing to hope too focused on the outcome?

I don't think so at all. That's what makes the tough times bearable. If I didn't hope for a restored marriage, and trust between us, I do not think I could go through the times when one or both or us are really hurting. Hope is that point on the horizon. You don't focus on it all the time, but you look up to make sure you are going in the right direction.

I cannot completely separate healing myself and the hope to heal our M. After all, the M we are working for, the one that is WORTH having, depends on me being the best partner I can be. So fixing myself is a huge part of hoping for the future.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle with the notion and validity of hope. As you know I am struggling mightily to let go of the outcome and just focus on the important work.

But I do believe there is an important place for hope on a deeper spiritual level and as much as I wrestle with the fear of letting go, I don't think you should ever give up on your hopes.

Hope is that point on the horizon. You don't focus on it all the time, but you look up to make sure you are going in the right direction.

very well said somethingremorse. Thank you for that.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, July 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really, really, really, really and I mean REALLY struggled with this. I think it's the hardest thing I've had to do and I still battle it daily.

I'm Co-D, letting go of outcomes is not what comes naturally to me. I control everything and everyone as much as I possibly can. It's the only way I can avoid getting hurt.

Very recently, in the last two months or so I have been making a huge amount of effort to step out of the Co-D cycle and focus on me.

Letting go doesn't mean I don't care or that I'm not able to support my husband or show empathy. In fact, I'm more able to do that because I'm not doing it in a manipulative way in order to protect myself.

I'm doing all this for me, because I don't want to be broken anymore. I don't want to be the sort of person who can have an A.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 5:17 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1253 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks to everyone for your replies.


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
1bigidiot79
♂ Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I needed to read this thread today. I am wrestling with this as well. In fact, I think I've struggled with this more than just about anything.

I've mostly let go of the outcome and have really made strides in healing myself. I still struggle with it but deep down I now know I cannot control her side of the fence but only my own.

Hope does see you through on those dark days we all have. We can make all the progress we want but the raw emotions still come to the surface. We are only human. I still love my wife and care very deeply about her and the fact is the longer this goes on the more I hurt for what I've done to her.

A new emotion has recently entered the picture in my situation. Because my BW is content to just to not deal with the situation at this point I am in the god awful state of limbo. She is just indifferent at this point. She does not talk about it and just ignores anything I say or do pertaining to what happened. This is causing me to feel like there is no hope and to be honest, I feel some resentment toward her. Every situation is different but we are almost a year out and stuck and going nowhere. I have no idea if she has hope for us or not because she will not talk to me.

Sorry for the t/j but getting back to the topic...this thread struck a chord in me because I'm wondering if I'm getting to the point that I have let go of the outcome AND given up hope. I don't really know what to think about that. Do I just go on like this forever? I don't know. I just try to focus on one day at a time. That's all I can do.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 173 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm wondering if I'm getting to the point that I have let go of the outcome AND given up hope.

slight t/j, but this stuck out for me, cause it is right where I am at.

We are S, and I have ben told repeatedly that there is no hope for R, but there was always a glimmer of hope (at least in my head)…until just a week or so ago. At todays exchange of kids I just felt different. I was not hoping for more conversation, just ready to get the kids and start my time with them.

Maybe it was just my mood, or just that I finally let go of it.
end t/j.

to your original question though. You are very early in this process, what she thinks is a deal breaker now, can change. My suggestion is to let go of outcome, and for me that meant not doing things in order to get an expected reaction. Do things because they are the right thing to do. the right thing for your healing, and in the larger context, the right thing for your M.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No stop sign so...
Good discussion here. Just want to add my thoughts.
As a BS I can tell you one of the HUGE things for me was/is being able to feel that he 'gets it'. I cant tell you how many emails I've written trying to describe/explain my deepest pain and all the side effects of his betrayals. One of the worst and lonliest feelings I have ever experienced in my entire life is when he doesn't latch on to what I've expressed and communicate with me in a way I know he gets it. Like really, really gets it. It's me needing to be fully known. It's me needing him to comfort me according to my true pain and not just a general comforting. It's him being there facing the crushing weight of it head in with me and not shying away, because...I can't. It's him knowing my hurt so well he can start to foresee triggers and help prevent them.
When she specifically mentioned eye contact I would surmise she probably is feeling some avoidance from you to really fully seeing the entirety of her pain and all the nuances of it.
As an example, If I were to write the following in an email to my H....
"When we are together watching tv or out in public and an attractive woman comes on tv or walks by my heart sinks into my stomach. Instantly I think of all the naked women you spent time watching and getting aroused over. It all replays in my head and I can see you watching them and anticipating their next move, staring at their body parts, being excited over intimate places on them. Things we did together, places you like to explore on me, you've explored on them. It kills me that that place that I thought was just for us, where our arousal was reserved for each other, is no longer sacred. It's not sacred because hundreds of other women have been there, in your mind, consuming your thoughts, affecting your body. Now every woman I see I fear you are seeing her and having sexual thoughts about her. I feel so lost. I feel that special intimacy we had has been invaded and crushed and I don't know how to ever feel good enough or arousing enough." Etc etc.

If I wrote that to him and, after read in it he hugged me to show me he wanted to comfort me, it would be nice but not what I really needed entirely. What would help me would be to know he gets it. If he later came to me and brought it back up on his own and said, You know, I've been thinking about what you wrote. I can't imagine having to go through that. That has to be so painful. I would be really sad if the shoe was on the other foot and I knew you had sought out and been sexually aroused over so many men. I feel so bad that I put you in that mindset. You don't deserve that. Do you ever get any relief from these thoughts or is it constant? Are the mind movies graphic? Does it make you question your ability to satisfy me and makes me happy? I imagine it's going to take quite a bit of time and a lot of me showing you that you really are everything I want and need before you're able to feel safe and not be reminded constantly" Etc. Etc.

Sorry if it's tmi in the example but just want to say that HOW you receive her pain and how you respond can make a huge difference in wether she feels understood and fully heard. If you show interest in her pain (asking questions) it shows you're taking in what she's shared and thoughtfully processing it. Much like if you fail to look her in the eye it feels to her like there's some unwillingness to see and participate in her hell. She needs you there with her. She needs genuine empathy and, as complicated as it is, she needs it most from the one who inflicted all the crushing blows.
Hope this helps a little.


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
1bigidiot79
♂ Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My suggestion is to let go of outcome, and for me that meant not doing things in order to get an expected reaction. Do things because they are the right thing to do. the right thing for your healing, and in the larger context, the right thing for your M.
Badchoice, thank you for this. It's not like it's some new revelation to me or anything but I needed to hear it again. I can be so selfish even within this recovery process. It's natural to some extent I guess because obviously we want to R with our BS's but I need to remember this every day. Do what your doing without any strings attached. As you said, do it because you know it's the right thing to do.

For those who share a religious point of view there is a very relevant parallel to this in the Bible. Husbands are told to love our wives as Christ loved the church. Well, how did he love the church? He loved us when we were unlovable, he loved us in spite of our sins and he loved us whether we loved him or not. We have to love like that. Just keep doing it for as long as it takes. It's not easy sometimes, when things aren't getting any better the grass seems to be looking greener and greener on the other side of the fence sometimes. But is it really? I love my BW more than anything and I owe it to her to give this everything I've got. So whether hope is there for me or not I plan on keeping on doing all I can do for her and not because I expect a response. Because it's what I should do because it's the right thing to do.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 173 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After going back and rereading these replies with my BS. I would like to again thank everyone for sharing. And to FixYou71 my BS said this is exactly what she has been unable to put into words.


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 715 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((DrJeckyll and Mrs.DrJeckyll)))


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
WarpSpeed
♂ Member
Member # 32051
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, July 4th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you've ever read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People then this is probably a familiar diagram.

I think it applies to your question.

The basic premise is that we are way more effective when we focus on things inside our Circle of Influence. In fact, it tends to grow as we put our energy there.

So ... What can you influence versus what are you concerned about?

You can make a better list than me but here's a start.

Inside your Circle of Influence...

Being truthful
Counseling
Figuring out your why
Giving your wife what she needs to heal
Working to be the best person you can be for the important people in your life.

It's a long list and that is just a start

Your Circle of Concern contains whether you this is all going to work out and your marriage saved.

You can't control that. You don't have to give up hope of it happening, but the real power is pouring your energy into things you can actually influence and trusting that is the best course.

best luck


Me: BS (51)
Her: fWW (50)
Married 27 years
Two sons in college
Empty closet and note on bed Jan 2010, She filed for D Mar 2010, D final May 2010, Actually had D-Day and found out why it all happened July 2010. Remarried on 23rd Anniv Aug 2010

Posts: 1498 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Dallas
Topic Posts: 19

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