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User Topic: Maybe not the model fww I thought
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I say that I have the model remorseful wife but I think I may have been too eager to say that to justify R. In truth there’ a couple things she doesn’t get, like:

1. She’s still self-centered (albeit to a lesser degree). For example Saturday morning I woke up and shared with her I had THREE dreams about OM. I wasn’t too shaken up about it but bothered. Not so much as a “sorry” or “do you want to talk about it?” from her. She just gets up and goes for a run. Normally we run together on Saturday but she’s been wanting to go by herself so I said “ok, we’ll just plan to do something together later.” Later comes (after kid’s soccer) and I’m starting dinner and she says she wants to get a pedicure. And she does. I ask her to call me when she’s on her way home so I can do the final dinner prep. Well she doesn’t (she forgot) so she gets home around 9 pm and finds that I had fallen asleep reading. So I’m pissed. She has no idea why.

What’s worse is she says I “set her up” by letting her run by herself and getting a pedicure and taking all the responsibilities on myself. That’s BS. She got into her affairs by not caring about anyone but herself, at a MINIMUM this is what SHE has to fix. I’m not taking the blame for her failure to think about me.

2. She’s sooo angry . She’s on AD but just so angry. Not toward me anymore (or maybe she hides it). She’s angry about work, about not getting enough exercise, tired all the time, days are too full, getting “fat”. This morning she was fuming at DD for “borrowing” her clothes without asking. She actually said, “I don’t know what else to do beside punch her in the face” . Maybe this is a normal mom/teen sentiment? I told her I didn’t want to minimize her feelings but it seemed like a bit of an overreaction. She agreed and started to cry.

3. That’s the other thing, she’s always crying and I’m stuck comforting her. I can’t have a bad day or trigger without her withdrawing and calling herself a “terrible person”.

I’m letting her work this stuff out in IC while the kids grow up, but if my youngest gets to driving age and she’s still like this, I’m going to have to let her go. I mean I love her and I know she loves me, but sometimes this relationship seems so lop-sided.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I say that I have the model remorseful wife but I think I may have been too eager to say that to justify R. In truth there’ a couple things she doesn’t get, like:

I initially tried to convince myself that my husband was a model wayward.

The truth is he is far from it, and is also still self absorbed and self pitying.

I also tried to convince myself that he was a good father, but what kind of good father devotes time and energy and money to a married women who dates married men.

That money should have been spent on his children, and all the time he wasted sneaking around with her should have been given to his children, not her.

The emails I read from the OW were filled with complaints about her husband. Silly complaints because I talked to the guy and he is a nice person.

The OW complained that her husband worked to much. Of course he did, she was high maintenance, she wanted her children in trendy private schools, she went to the spa weekly, had hair additions installed, and had lipo suction.

She also insisted on going on pricey vacations at least four times per year.

This women never worked a day in her life.

Yet, she complains that the husband worked long hours. Does she think money grows on trees.

That was her major reason for cheating. Her husband worked long hours. .....Can you imagine. Is that a good reason?

Are all wayards selfish? I don't know, but I can say mine is and was.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1093 | Registered: May 2014
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any chance she's having another affair?


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7370 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ADs made me angry and self absorbed. And I am really the opposite. She may need to talk to the dr. about switching them up, the ones she's one don't seem to he working, correctly.

She may need help in the beginning, to remember you, too. She may not know how to. I have to tell my fwh, pretty much every time I trigger, what I need from him... He's never had to deal with his shit, or pay attention to the people around him. He's always had to take care of himself, alone... And I let him do that for years, even after I was here for him...

A lot of WSs just think quitting cheating is enough... We have to show them what we need. And sometimes we have to tell them that "back to normal" isn't acceptable anymore.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

**duplicate post**

Sorry... Stupid iPad is being stupid.

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 10:33 AM, June 10th (Tuesday)]


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any chance she's having another affair?

I would say zero chance. I watch her like a hawk. My first indication she was having another affair would probably be an attempted suicide. She's that down on herself concerning her teenager-like mentality when it comes to other men.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She may need help in the beginning, to remember you, too. She may not know how to. I have to tell my fwh, pretty much every time I trigger, what I need from him... He's never had to deal with his shit, or pay attention to the people around him. He's always had to take care of himself, alone... And I let him do that for years, even after I was here for him...

I get that, I really do. But, it's hard for me to say, "hey, what about me?" I'd feel like a huge DB.

What's worse is that when I do have the nerve to speak up, she immediately starts lamenting the fact that "she'll never be good enough". Then her mood is in the shitter.

Most of the time I just let it fester.

God, I sound like a big wuss.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No she is not the model WS.
Honestly I don't think she gets it. She is manipulating you, by playing the depressed victim.

You are reluctant to bring things up and share with her, because you know she will either get angry, or start crying, and play the victim. This is not really R.

She needs to take full and total responsibility for what she has done, and if her grief is so overwhelming then she needs to talk to her Psych. Her meds aren't doing what they are supposed to.

Quit comforting her. She needs to learn how to heal herself. If you are always rescuing her she changes nothing.
I realize this is difficult, but I really don't see real remorse in her, I see self pity. There is a huge difference.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8401 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so you quit talking when she starts crying? Hmmmmmm, sounds like she has you well trained.
don't let her continue with these behaviors. that is a form of emotional abuse.

180

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2789 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lots of good advice here.

This wayward is far too involved in self pity.

She has no right to be self pitying. She chose to address any marital problems by having an affair.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1093 | Registered: May 2014
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, she's manipulating you so her needs and her feelings are always front & center, leaving no room for you. Bottom line, this isn't sustainable if R is a goal. The "woe is me" routine is going to wear out its welcome. I see she's in IC. Are you guys in MC?


FWW - 41
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5884 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with the others. You have to put a stop to this. Stop letting her self pity control the dialog. Great, she feels like shit. She SHOULD feel like shit! Now, what's she gonna do to make it better.

I'd encourage you to read up about codpendency. I can't quite tell by these few posts if you are there, but you have some leanings. Let her feel bad. That is hers to own. Speak your truth. That is yours to own. Stop trying to not let any bad feelings exist.

Read my siggie; the cure for the pain is the pain. You have to feel it to heal it, my friend.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6417 | Registered: Jan 2011
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly I don't think she gets it. She is manipulating you, by playing the depressed victim.

I don't think she's manipulating me, at least not on purpose. She really wants to be a better wife. I don't think she's "playing" depressed victim either. She's been depressed most of our marriage and until recently, she made it seem like my fault.

She needs to take full and total responsibility for what she has done, and if her grief is so overwhelming then she needs to talk to her Psych. Her meds aren't doing what they are supposed to.

She has taken responsibility, so that's good. But yes, she's been talking to the psych and they are still fine tuning the meds. This is my opinion only but she has some real FOO issues that she can't see. That's where her anger comes from.

Quit comforting her. She needs to learn how to heal herself. If you are always rescuing her she changes nothing.

God I hate that. She seems to be in such real pain I would have to be heartless to not comfort her. I realize you're right.

so you quit talking when she starts crying? Hmmmmmm, sounds like she has you well trained.
don't let her continue with these behaviors. that is a form of emotional abuse

Truth.

I'd encourage you to read up about codpendency. I can't quite tell by these few posts if you are there, but you have some leanings. Let her feel bad. That is hers to own. Speak your truth. That is yours to own.

I refuse to self-diagnose anything, but I'm probably there. During the anger phase I let her feel bad (and helped) but since then I've tiptoed around. I even give the kids a pep talk before Mom gets home so she doesn't have a reason to be upset.

The "woe is me" routine is going to wear out its welcome. I see she's in IC. Are you guys in MC?

It already is, that's why I posted. I thought the crying and self-loathing were a sign of remorse, but they are empty without action.

We were in MC, but after she lied for months while in MC about the affair, I wouldn't go back until she's been in IC. I'm in IC too.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
TheIrishGirl
♀ Member
Member # 43496
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is doing well by me for the most part, but when I'm a mess he sometimes tries to help me feel better by saying what an ass he's been and that he feels horribly, thereby showing that he won't pull this shit again. My response has always been, 'it's my turn right now. You don't get to do this' and he recognizes what he's doing and stops. Maybe try that?

It's not that I want him to feel like an ass, but he should. He did terrible things, and feeling terribly about them is appropriate. If I'm in a good spot and he's not, he can tell me about it. And I'll help him remember that feeling like a jack ass is the first indicator that he won't always be one. That he just may be a good person who did bad things. This is his chance to prove himself to be the good person. All the time. Over and over again. Now stop whining to me, and be that better person.


Me: 31, BW Him: 38, WH
2 children (ours) 7/11 & 3/14
D-day 4/18/14 I saw his 'other' email

Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2014
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

refuse to self-diagnose anything, but I'm probably there. During the anger phase I let her feel bad (and helped) but since then I've tiptoed around. I even give the kids a pep talk before Mom gets home so she doesn't have a reason to be upset.

Get Codependant No More, talk to your IC about it.

There's an old saying here; you can't nice your spouse back into the marraige. I swear to you, they will suck out your soul. Somtimes it seems the men have a harder time with that, because you aren't used to forcing women to bear the brunt of pain. Trust me. We can take it. Stop letting her control the dialog. Find your spine, and demand she change.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6417 | Registered: Jan 2011
RegretfulHusband
♂ Member
Member # 41873
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope as a WH, my response is ok.

Are all wayards selfish? I don't know, but I can say mine is and was.

Yes. I don't mean to speak for all Waywards, but if we weren't, the As never would have happened to begin with. We put our own concerns, our own feelings, our own needs or wants before everything else. Even our families.

Please don't take this admission as a "look at me and how honest I am". I don't mean it that way, honest.

I wanted to post this as a true honest confession that is hard for people to make - yes, we are selfish - but a truly remorseful and penitent wayward will work to reduce and remove that selfishness over time.


Me: FWH, 34
Her: BS, 33
Married: 6 years
Together: 10+ years
Kids: 2 Boys under 5

DDay1: 7+ years ago
DDay2: 1.5 years ago

"The truth shall set you free, but first it will make you miserable."


Posts: 142 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: United States
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What's worse is that when I do have the nerve to speak up, she immediately starts lamenting the fact that "she'll never be good enough". Then her mood is in the shitter.
This is a form of emotional manipulation. Pure and simple.

I've seen this kind of behavior before. Both hers and yours.

I don't mean to be harsh but you show strong signs of codependency. I know. I had those signs myself before I got into IC.

You started this thread with exactly what she did and did not do in response to your triggers. Do not try to explain them away. Also, her anger and comments about DD are not acceptable. She has problems? Fine. She needs to take responsibility and get help.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3778 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC helped us understand what BW needed to see from me. I honestly don't know that we could have established those things without her.

Also, MC is really tuned into not allowing me be a martyr or having a pity party for myself. After lots of sessions and examination, I see why she put a stop to that right away. It for reasons that MM talks about here. I now know that I cannot feel empathy for BW if I'm feeling sorry for myself. I didn't know it at the time, or even after a few months. Now I do.

MC has been invaluable to teaching BW and me to interact with each other in healthy ways.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 521 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During the anger phase I let her feel bad (and helped) but since then I've tiptoed around. I even give the kids a pep talk before Mom gets home so she doesn't have a reason to be upset.

HOW is this not manipulation on her part?
This is NOT R. This I feel sorry for myself, that I got caught.

I hate to sound like a mean bitch, but dude, you need to get out of your own fog. Or you will be right back here, with a second Dday, or a New A to report. She is playing you like a fiddle. The sooner you see that, the better off you are. She may not be doing it intentionally, but she knows in her mind that when the tears start, you shut up. Nice form of forced rug sweeping.

I agree with Brandon, I see a ton of codependency and rationalization in your responses.
Maybe some IC for you. Being Married is not easy, being Married to someone with ongoing psychiatric issues is even more difficult.
I say start focusing on you. Get you strong. She needs to do the same for herself, plus help you through your pain. If she can't do that, then R won't work.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8401 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And yes, in the beginning, particularly after dday1, he'd get all low..."i'll never be good enough, I may as well just die..." And use all sorts of Self pity BULLSHIT to try and shut me down, to keep with dealing with his shit. Fuck all that... I'm teaching him how to deal with his shit, now. And that means making him deal with the unpleasantness HE caused. I let him control R last time, and see where that got us? Nope. Not doing any of that this time. If i need to talk about the As, we talk about the As. If he starts that "woe is me, you'll never let me live this down", now, I shut it down, and remind him, that I need to talk about it, to heal from it... And if that's a problem, we can rethink this whole healing together thing, and I will do ok on my own... "Oh, your As make YOU sad? GOOD. That's what As do. Deal with that, or get out. Soemtimes my reminders are gentle... Sometimes, not.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
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