Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: madattheworld (45057)

Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Do your children badmouth WS? 2x4?
dmari
♀ Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Friends,

Both my teens don't have anything to do with stbx. I rarely talk about stbx and when I do, I never badmouth him. So it really caught me by surprise when DS15 referred to stbx as "a prick". DS15 has been struggling with his depression the past couple of weeks, not suicidal but feelings of disinterest, anger and sadness. He has told me a couple of times before and last night, "I don't want to be like dad". Stbx blamed depression on his decision to walk out on his family. DS15 is afraid his depression will lead to him walking out on his family.

So I thought about it last night and will discuss this with his therapist today but I basically told him the following this morning. That there are thousands and thousands of people with depression who DON'T leave their families. I asked what could explain dads leaving if he didn't say it was because of his depression? DS15 said "I dunno. That would mean he is just a jerk." I said that everyone ~ you, me, sister, dad ~ everyone makes choices. Everyone has choices. And there is consequences to all choices.

I said we could explore and process more with the therapist but he did not want to. So I will privately inform the therapist but tell her that he says he is not ready yet.

I guess what made me open up the discussion with DS15 this morning is I really don't want him thinking that stbx's choices is due to depression because of how this will "frame" DS15's own issues with depression. I want DS15 to understand how depression effects himself and how to manage it when it interferes with his life without him constantly worrying about "ending up like dad".

What could I have added? Should I have responded differently?

and

What do you say when the children bad mouth the other parent? In my situation, I said something like "I understand why you would feel that way. He did do something 'prickful/jerky' that hurt you." I guess I'm subconsiously trying to make it about the "action" and not the "person" but do the kids really see it that way? I don't know. Yes, he is a prick but I can't say that.

Anyways, I'm open to any gentle 2x4's from my wise friends here who may be able to see it from a different perspective. Thank you! My heart hurts for my kiddos. eta:

[This message edited by dmari at 4:16 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)]


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2233 | Registered: Oct 2012
ButterflyGirl
♀ Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't bash my ex personally. HOWEVER, I DO bash his actions and decisions if I feel he should have done things differently and I'm trying to teach my boys life lessons, so I think you are doing perfect..

That's great you are trying to teach him independence from his dad. I'm trying to teach my kids they have independence from me, too. I think it's good to put the responsibility on the child to think for themselves and decide how they want their life to be. Some people turn out like their parents, and some people turn out the OPPOSITE of their parents. And all the shades in between..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ah, teenagers... everything is in the superlative- the "est" of everything.

I would have a short conversation about the difference between how we FEEL about something and the way we REACT to something.

It is all fine and dandy to feel sad or disappointed or pissed off at the desertion/jerkiness of a parent or the crappiness of adulthood and responsibility. But are you going to BE sad, pissed off, mopey about it forever? or hide from it, deny it with self soothing destructive behaviors?

I think it is classic wayward thinking to blame behaviors on emotions. (I deserve to be happy bullshit). I also think it is classic teen behavior too.... Adolescents are walking egos, one breath away from tears or assault at any given moment.

t/j
Can anyone tell I had a rough day with the teens at school????


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5841 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
hummingbird8
♀ Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't allow my children to badmouth their dad. I don't badmouth him anywhere around them. I have taught them parents deserve respect, even if we don't like something. I'm sure there are things they don't like, like when I tell them no etc, however they have to respect me.

My husband has a child and his ex allows and encourages him to run his dad in the ground. She has done it since their divorce and any time the child is told no about anything they say all kinds of things. We have been told by others he is also disrespectful to her. And he has been disrespectful to his teachers too. Basically he has learned if someone doesn't do what he wants or does something he doesn't like it's ok to run his mouth. So just be careful of the precedent you set.


Posts: 505 | Registered: Aug 2009
ButterflyGirl
♀ Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree hummingbird that children need to be taught to respect their elders. Kids these days!

But being a victim of childhood abuse, I am partial to making sure my kids know boundaries and that they can say "no" if they are feeling uncomfortable.

I have told the kids they need to be nice, respectful, and polite to OW, but that she needs to be nice and respectful in return and that they can always come to me with any problems they have with her or her 6-year-old son..

My kids DO get upset when ex bails on them all the time. They barely get to see him, so bailing on them makes them feel so much worse. Sometimes I try to cover a bit for my ex, telling them he has to work, etc., and will see him soon, but they still get angry with him. I wish he was a better, more involved father, but I'm just trying to make up for it as best I can.

I do sense a bit of teenage angst there dmari, and I'm wondering how much is normal for his age and how much the stbx situation is contributing to it.

I do think having a rule about respect is a good idea. My kids aren't allowed to curse, and that could include angry rants about people, including their father. This is where I would try to teach my children how to handle their problems with grace and take the high road, and this could include their interpersonal relationships with friends, teachers, bosses, anyone.. You have to try to work through your anger and issues with people, and if reasoning with them doesn't work, then dropping that person could be appropriate if they continue to hurt your feelings..

My kids actually ARE allowed to curse at my ex's house, and OW's son apparently has a huge pottymouth, but I told both of my sons that they can choose NOT to curse if they want, and I will sometimes ask DS6 how many times he cursed when he was at dad's. Recently, he admitted to 9, lol, but a lot of the time now both he and DS10 have both said neither of them cursed, and they like to get each other into trouble, so I think they are telling the truth to me that they are choosing not to curse more often over there

I remember searching so hard for an identity in my teen years, so I'm not surprised your son is realizing who his family is compared to other families, and probably how he got the shit end of the stick in life. But no matter who his parents are, HE gets to make his own choices in life, and receive all the blessings and consequences that go with those choices..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
dmari
♀ Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for responding! What I am having a reaction to --> which tells me that is what I need to dig into --> I did not connect my DS15 calling stbx a prick to being disrespectful to adults. Regardless of all the shitty things stbx said and did to my kids, I highly doubt DS15 would say that to stbx's face. I have never had a problem with my DS15 being disrespectful ~ in fact, his teachers praise him for his respectfulness.

I don't know if it's 100% angst. Perhaps partly? I do know he hasn't processed his anger toward stbx in therapy. So maybe that was his way of saying he needs to/is ready to?

My main focus is on my DS15 and his depression ~ I want him to be insightful as to how depression shows up in his life, coping skills, resources and learning to live with it.

Thank you again for responding and sharing. It always helps me!


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2233 | Registered: Oct 2012
Gemini71
♀ Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a lifelong sufferer of Depression, I'm kinda pissed your WH is using it as an excuse to be a prick.

I guess I would have been more blunt. Depending on how much the child knows I say, "Dad's leaving had nothing to do with his Depression. Dad left because....
a)he and I were having problems.
b)he needed space to decide if he wants to stay married.
c)he wanted to spend more time with OW.

I've also been known to steal lines from 'Harry Potter.' "Our decisions make us who we are. You can decide differently than your father (or Voldemort)."

As far as bad mouthing the other parent, I say, "Hey, that's my husband you're speaking about." Or soon it will be, "That's the father of my children you're talking about. Please be respectful." It doesn't negate your child's feelings, but does set a boundary about bad mouthing parents.


Anyway, you know what's best for your child.

[This message edited by Gemini71 at 8:56 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)]


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1796 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
ButterflyGirl
♀ Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<--- Obsessed Harry Potter fan!

Though JK Rowling has claimed not to be a Christian, I find so many similarities to religion in those movies. It's like Star Wars kind of, a classic good versus evil series.

My favorite scene is the end of the Order of the Phoenix, when Dumbledore fights Voldemort, and Voldemort possesses Harry. When Dumbledore is trying to get Harry to fight it, he tells him, "It is not how you are alike. It is how you are not."

Love that line!

[This message edited by ButterflyGirl at 9:18 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)]


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 7

Posts: 2248 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dmari, my oldest boy complains about his mom all the time. He complains about the fact that she is now treating him the exact same way she used to treat me.

In the beginning, I really tried to be good. I REALLY did. But I spent the entire marriage thinking that I must deserve to be treated that way - a way of thinking that eventually lead to my suicide attempt. No fucking way am I going to let my kid fall into that thinking.

So, I took the route of validating him. When he said that she was treating him like shit, I said something like, "She used to do the same to me. I always believed it was my fault, but I was wrong. Some people just don't know how to treat the ones they love."

I know that's stepping over a few lines, and I received some mighty 2x4s on here for it a couple months back. BUT he needs to know that he does not deserve to be disrespected.

I've revised my practice a little after healing from the 2x4 scars, now I ask some more questions first, to really try to get to the root of the problem. And if he was at fault, I let him know that he deserved to get in shit for it. He is a teenager after all.

My kids are not going to be driven to suicide while I have anything to say about it. I've had lifelong depression, social anxiety, and ADHD, so I know it isn't TOTALLY her fault. She was just the megaphone that amplified all the self esteem issues and despair I already had.

And by the way, mark me down as another depressive who never cheated. Cheaters who like to blame it on depression just piss me off.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1984 | Registered: Jan 2013
dmari
♀ Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gemini71 and Pass ~ Thank you so much for proving that depression doesn't lead to infidelity. And how do I put this ~ I want to thank you for saying that people who blame their infidelity on their mental illness piss you off. It's taken me a while to separate the two in my mind. I know that blaming and playing the victim is his M.O. in life.

Pass ~ It's such a hard line to walk, isn't it? I still don't feel I responded appropriately. I did respond in what I felt was in DS's best interest. Perhaps I will feel differently the next time. I'm beginning to feel that sometimes there is no "right" way of handling a situation. Thank you so much for responding!


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2233 | Registered: Oct 2012
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not connect my DS15 calling stbx a prick to being disrespectful to adults.
My kids are small so I haven't had to deal with this yet. But one of the things I learned from SI is it's okay to have feelings. You don't stuff them, even the bad ones. You work through them. IMO, your son should be allowed to be upset at his Father. He is allowed to be mad and express his feelings. At that age if the worst thing he does is call his Dad names he is doing great. As long as he is respectful to adults and in the case of his dad understands that his feelings are valid and if he chooses to express those feeling to his Father it's okay as well. If he chooses not to tell his Dad but vents to you that's okay as well. As long as he has someone he can talk to about it without being judged or told he is wrong for feeling that way.

I absolutely hated my XWW for a long time but I couldn't say it to her face without being extremely disrespectful and my kids were always around so I came to SI to vent or vented during IC. I needed to get it out just as your son needs to or will need to get it out. If he needs to vent you can listen and guide him down the right path when he has questions. I think you are and will do fine. You are already helping him to understand that he is an individual and NOT his Father. He gets to make his own choices. Just my 2 cents.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:34 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1905 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pass ~ It's such a hard line to walk, isn't it? I still don't feel I responded appropriately. I did respond in what I felt was in DS's best interest. Perhaps I will feel differently the next time. I'm beginning to feel that sometimes there is no "right" way of handling a situation. Thank you so much for responding!

I think you handled it very well. You asked questions to help lead him down the road to the answer: That cheaters are jerks. This is a lesson you want him to learn.

Please continue to encourage DS15 to talk to his therapist about it. 13 didn't want to talk to a social worker, but I gently talked him into it, and we're all feeling a little better about it. I told him the social worker is his safe place, where he can complain about anything: his friends, his teachers, his brother, his mom, and me. He responded that there would be nothing to complain about me because I'm "the reasonable parent".

I thanked him for saying so, but said he could probably find something (did I mention he's 13 ), and he won't be hurting me if he does - I won't even find out.

This isn't easy, but you really are handling it beautifully!


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1984 | Registered: Jan 2013
Topic Posts: 12

Return to Forum: Divorce/Separation Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.