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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Selling a house by Owner with Npd
TheAgonyOfIt
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Member # 39114
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

omg if i weren't so tired and drained i would have tons to say

i have an npd in my life and it's hell

here the things about FSBO. buyers are smart. they will expect a "discount" equal to the savings you might get by not hiring a realtor.

also, agents don't like FSBO and unless there is extremely low low low inventory of houses like yours, will not bring their clients

one agent can bring 20 clients depending on their agency

dealing with an NPD with preparing a house for sale (something i just did over past 2 months and am 3 weeks from closing, heaven help me if we hit any bumps that throw the whole thing off, i don't know how much more strength i can find!!!!!!)... anyway, dealing with an NPD on this is HELL as you WILL do it all and you WILL be exhausted and you will have no choice because he will bully you and basically when it comes down to it, if you don't do it, it wont' get done and the house will not sell.

So giddy up! You need to find people to help you, to set the STRUCTURE YOU NEED and help you get your ducks lined up, like a damm good realtor who is EXPERIENCED in handing house sales SPECIFICALLY with divorced/separating people (believe me, tact and skill in this is SOOOO beneficial to you!) and who know really just how to phrase things just right as not to instigate and to placate, and also to give referrals to professionals that you will need to paint neutral colors schemes and get rid of anything that would be a turn off (like bright red pain or weird visuals) or whatever.

Also the lawyer, a good person, to scare him into submission and threaten with court and whatever else; NPDs are cowards (i think?****) and will sometimes back down if they understand the REAL things that will befall them if they continue their bullshit. Find a kind hearted, good person attorney who can explain your options; court is not always necessary. Threats are great on NPD cowards.

Also make your house SHINE. Make it as beautiful clean and clutter free as you can. Make it SHINE. Plant roses. Remember women buy houses and women and men react emotionally to houses; their emotions ultimately buy The house, the # of rooms and square footage etc. send them to look at your house. Create ambiance. Paint and new carpet does wonders. Fix the leaks and service the AC. Plant roses and hydrangeas, and pretty romantic things?
Clean it immaculately.

FSBO is generally not a good idea; FSBO with an NPD is a lose lose lose lose for you.

Find out how to protect yourself from the Jackass.

OH AND VERY IMPORTANT: if you have any leeverage on him, have the attorney draft a simple agreement that any improvements done to the property in preparation for sale paid by you will be reimbursed to you out of his proceeds. Find a way to have him sign it; maybe present it as written BY YOU not from attorney (so have him write it as a simple letter not as a mumbo jumbo attorney stuff). I got a signature after I gave him really good sex, yes, I'm not proud of it, but it's not like i never slept with the SOB before.

Finally, it's not all about the money, it's about peace of mind and removal of him from your life (kids? don't know a lot about you as i've not been here for a while, but i've seen you around!!!!) .. so it's not ALL about the money and it's partially about the money and protecting what is yours. You have to find a place with the money where you are comfortable, like are you willing and able to "pay him off" in some way to make him GO AWAY?

Okay this is way longer than i intended.. but i'm so in the muck of this.....and your NPD sounds just like mine it's SCARY that these people are like carbon copies of each other.

Find out what his weakness is and zero in on that to get whatever signature you need to get him to sign with an agent that YOU choose, but make him think he had a hand in choosing, and get him to sign a piece of paper that protects you, like reimbursing.. .. i don't know if you are married.. anyway, do an analysis of how much you would earn if sold as is, how much if sold in pristine condition, how much each will take our of your sanity and other non-monetary factors, and proceed from there.

Sorry this is such an intense note; I am in an intense place right now and wow, reading your posts about your NPDs behavior got my blood boiling!

GOOD LUCK!! i'm going to check back in on you!

(We're set to close June 20th; Wish Me Luck Please!!!!!!)


Me BS 49, ExWS: narcissist! Jekyll Hyde. Left in secret early July, moved states. Now homeless but getting it together. Necessary but difficult(!) transition! Sad sad sad but hopeful.

Posts: 554 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: theagonyofit
TheAgonyOfIt
♀ Member
Member # 39114
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry if i missed some obvious details of your situation when i posted. I am tired and drained and read your post quickly and responded quickly, and did the best i can for now! good luck to you!!!


Me BS 49, ExWS: narcissist! Jekyll Hyde. Left in secret early July, moved states. Now homeless but getting it together. Necessary but difficult(!) transition! Sad sad sad but hopeful.

Posts: 554 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: theagonyofit
TheAgonyOfIt
♀ Member
Member # 39114
Default  Posted: 1:58 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi, i'm back again, just had another thought.

if at all possible, keep him and your story away from the buyers. Everything goes through the realtor. My realtor even arranged for a split settlement so that we are never in the same room with buyers. She said it saves us money but the real reason is she doesn't want him near the buyers, nor them to witness any of our interaction with each other, which may get ugly.

it's difficult to be sure. I did everything prepping the house, I wore the same clothes for three days several times(and I usually changed 3x a time, pajamas, work clothes and evening clothes!)...he went to california for a week a week before listing, he came back and didn't say oh wow, how wonderful the place looked. instead complained about the little things the painter may not have done perfectly or whatever else he could find to criticize in a nasty nasty nasty way. Then he invites me to a concert and tells me to get naked! Insane! Bewildering. Completely!

oh and one more thing: if you sell as is, it's gotta be a "can't walk away price" or it will SIT. Houses that don't shine SIT on market and get stale unless the price is too good. I made my house immaculate and beautiful! It went under contract within 48 hours and pray pray pray it goes through; the buyers are strong, the contract is clean but he's an asshole and there are things to fix post inspection. I don't think all the investment and energy and time I put into house will necessarily make me any money, but my GOAL was to sell it FAST to get him out of my life. That may be your goal too; prepare it to sell fast if you can.

I wish you all the luck in the world. Sorry again for missing important details of you story like kids, CS, 6 years out, divorced, new girlfriend, already have attorney, etc. I guess all about him just jumped out at me; how NPD of it all!!!!


Me BS 49, ExWS: narcissist! Jekyll Hyde. Left in secret early July, moved states. Now homeless but getting it together. Necessary but difficult(!) transition! Sad sad sad but hopeful.

Posts: 554 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: theagonyofit
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you The Agony.....I want to fix it up and split the expense with him. He refuses. He thinks he is smarter than everyone and that he can dod a better job than professionals in the field...par for the course. FT also thinks I am the spawn of satan and that every word out of my mouth is a lie or distortion....par for the course. And he just tried to ruin me financially after a long line of shitty antics toward me and the kids and he thinks it is perfectly reasonable that I would be comfortable working with him......

I appreciate all of the advice everyone has given me. I am contacting my lawyer today to see how to proceed. I especially like the idea of a wall of protection around me with the realtor and then my lawyer....as FT hates to look bad in front of others.

You guys are the best! Thank you - Thank you - Thank you!!!!!


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2683 | Registered: Jan 2010
osxgirl
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Member # 8795
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read your last post - I was just about to post about what you were writing about: namely, the expenses.

Basically, no matter how you go about selling the house, you will likely have some expenses. And frankly, my opinion is to tell him you will only work with a realtor. There is a LOT of legal stuff involved with it, and it's a realtor's business to know what it is. While FSBO is doable, there's a lot of legwork involved, and you have to really be on top of things to make sure it all gets done correctly. Not something you want to do with NPD X.

Anyway, the expenses - work with your lawyer on this, but... I believe you should be able to do whatever needs to be done to sell the house, keep very good records on it, and all of those expenses should be taken off the top of the sale proceeds (to be reimbursed to whomever paid them) before the equity is split.

In other words, if you have expenses that are directly related to being able to sell the house, they should NOT come out of your pocket. They should come from whatever equity is in the house.

This goes even for standard maintenance items. Since you are both still responsible for the house, and you will both be profiting from the sale, you should both be sharing maintenance costs.

Like I said, work with your lawyer (and probably a realtor too) on this, but don't let him pull this on you. Make sure that money for selling expenses comes out of the equity so it is equally shared.


Posts: 2398 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Maryland
TheAgonyOfIt
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Member # 39114
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ahhh osx said it extremely well and without the hot emotion I was speaking through last night. Just reasoned logic: ""all of those expenses should be taken off the top of the sale proceeds (to be reimbursed to whomever paid them) before the equity is split.

In other words, if you have expenses that are directly related to being able to sell the house, they should NOT come out of your pocket. They should come from whatever equity is in the house."

Perfect.


Me BS 49, ExWS: narcissist! Jekyll Hyde. Left in secret early July, moved states. Now homeless but getting it together. Necessary but difficult(!) transition! Sad sad sad but hopeful.

Posts: 554 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: theagonyofit
Chrysalis123
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Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is what I want to do, get reimbursed for expenses. FT refuses to put one penny into the house. In other words FT wrote I may improve whatever I want, but I will not receive any money back from the sale. He said he will not under any circumstance pay for anything for the house. (Remeber he believes I robbed him and I owe him over 80K in CS and SS and the kitchen sink ) In his grandiose mind this sale operates how he says it does....apparently I am legally invisible in his world. How do you spell CRAZY??

I have an appointment with my lawyer tomorrow. Lawyer said a resounding NO to FSBO, and said "we will formulate a plan. Unfortunately it involves contacting FT's lawyer who has not responded to questions about the home sale for 2 months."

Just a little longer and I will be free of this.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2683 | Registered: Jan 2010
Ashland13
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Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi,

My story is about the same as yours. XNpd pervert thinks I'm idiot and tells everyone I'm a liar.

Just got through selling a house we built with NPD xPervert. I insisted on both a realtor and lawyer when I finally left with my kids.

I told him if you want to sell it, you get it ready.

I don't know if it will help, but here are some things I did.

The very first thing I do when I get a message from him is read it only. I don't reply right away, but sit on it. I'm 2 years out now and finally to the point where very little emotion comes from his words. Many of them are puffs of air.

Narcissism, for me, is like a bully on a playground. Like a kid who hides behind a tree tossing out insults. I have original family members on my side that have it and I will always have to deal.

Anyway...

Getting a lawyer was one of the best things I ever did. I too was SAHM for at least 10 years and now the XPervert feels very entitled to not give me a darn thing to go forward into new life with. Any correspondence I have with him now that he requests something I tell him, "I don't know, I will ask." This way, whether I ask or not, it isn't my decision and he's likely to back off or do the thing with less hassle. This works. He sputters still but is more inclined to be tolerant. I won't say agreeable.

Another thing I learned to do with him or my mother is when I need something for myself from him, I give "options". I think of a list of important options for an answer. So that the question I have appears open ended and like it was all his choice, while it was mine. Kind of an exhausting game. But if you go at it in any way that could be a demand, forget it.

I have been telling Xpervert for weeks that "we" need to arrive at a set time where he collects kids for their visit with him. Weeks. So this week I get an email. Mind you, our last day in court is next week. This is big. So this week I get an email and it says, "I would like to solidify pick up time for kids for my weekends." WHAAA?

He wouldn't work on the topic until he could pretend it was all his idea. He believes I'm an idiot and I get that. But when it comes to having any kind of authority behind me he backs down.

So...long story short...if you can at least get an inexpensive lawyer, I would highly suggest it. XPervert doesn't take me seriously but he will respect the law at the last minute.

It's my belief that NPD are closet cowards.

The other thing I do is have two good friends who are confidants. Each of them have known him since we were kids. I've known them since birth. So I bounce his shenanigans off them because some of his or my mother's crap makes my head spin.

The other thing I've learned with losing the house is that I can replace material things. The more I could learn to go without, the sooner it got wrapped up.

The other thing I did was say, okay, if you want to sell, YOU get it ready. Because he would blame me for any wrong thing even when I stayed there to try to save it from things like freezing. And my lawyer made sure anything that needed repairs he had to let me know so that expenses would not be surprise.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chrysalis123,
No advice, but you've gotten great advice already. Who knew there were so many of us married to NPDs.

I can't believe the BEST thing in my future is selling my house with my NPD STBX.

Anyhow, good luck. So glad you're going to build a wall around him to protect yourself!


Posts: 1701 | Registered: Oct 2011
crisp
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Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no real good suggestions for you because whatever route you take will cost $. Off the cuff, I can think of three tacts to take:
1. Muddle through as you are--as best you can.
2. Seek a court order enforcing the "sale provision" in your divorce. In this scenario, you would have to assert a "breach" and possibly "waste." While both might be a stretch independently, getting the whole situation before a judge might make things happen that will provide you with structure and direction.
3. You might be able to start a new action "in equity" commonly called a "partition action." Look it up. It basically asks a court to order a sale of jointly held property under definitive terms and conditions.

Do a little research on your own and then talk to your lawyer. I do not envy your situation. Good luck.

[This message edited by crisp at 9:35 PM, June 6th (Friday)]


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 386 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
Chrysalis123
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Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you again all!

Crisp, I am muddling through as best as I can with my lawyer's approval. He said give it a shot by yourself and to keep him posted, because legally there is nothing he can do for me yet.

I learned how I could have been saved from this.

The separation agreement is too vague. It doe not say the house must me sold by a realtor

So yesterday I received 4 variations of the following email from FT:

Ok. What dollar amount would you like to pocket when the deal is complete? One of the people I have interested is a real estate lawyer, if he is serious and ends up buying, there will not be any need to have a realtor involved, nor will we need to pay the +\- $$$ in commission. We are in a sellers market, especially at what I think our price point should be.

OMG..mystery buyer is a real estate lawyer...FT is planning to really screw me over.... funny he did not reveal the name of said real estate lawyer. Oh ya, FT really believes I am a blathering idiot.

Each time I replied, "I am not interested in selling FSBO. I want to use a realtor."

I will keep the partition action idea around if winging it by myself flops.

It is a beautiful day here. The benefit of this delay is I get plenty of time to organize a huge garage sale!

And not let FT's crazy bother me in the least.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2683 | Registered: Jan 2010
crisp
♂ Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will send you a PM by the morning with suggestions.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 386 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is what many do. Be ready.

I'm going tomorrow to sign final papers. It's been several years to clean up the mess.

Even up to the last court date, the xPervert would say one thing to my face and another thing on the same subject would be in the papers.

Watch the papers. Every letter. Every line.

It's my suspicion that many divorce lawyers have other eggs in their basket because they can have wider avenues to make money off one client.

What I also noticed is that many things I did, he ended up copying. Not horn tooting. Just noticed.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, June 8th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is what many do. Be ready.

I'm going tomorrow to sign final papers. It's been several years to clean up the mess.

Even up to the last court date, the xPervert would say one thing to my face and another thing on the same subject would be in the papers.

Watch the papers. Every letter. Every line.

It is a game.

It's my suspicion that many divorce lawyers have other eggs in their basket because they can have wider avenues to make money off one client.

What I also noticed is that many things I did, he ended up copying. Not horn tooting. Just noticed.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2239 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
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