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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: thoughts on The Fog
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am asking wayward's how they would feel if their spouse had an affair in a FOG of hurt an pain and humiliation.

Mine did. Didn't hurt any less than if I hadn't had one. In fact, he knew what it felt like to be a BS and he did it. And then he saw what it did to me and he did it again.
Hard stuff to move forward from. I actually kinda gave him a "gimme" because I had had one - BAD move on my part.

Pain and humiliation is just justification for doing it. I was in pain because of lots of crap he pulled before my affair. So? It was my job to handle that a mature way, not a back stabbing way.

And now here we are and I'm in pain and humiliated. Do I have a right to affair back? nope...


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5494 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am asking wayward's how they would feel if their spouse had an affair in a FOG of hurt an pain and humiliation.

All BS' feel that pain and humiliation. Not all have A's of their own. Which indicates that 'revenge affairs' are absolutely nothing to do with the original A and everything to do with the BS' own poor coping mechanisms.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 12:34 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - Jan 2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Which indicates that 'revenge affairs' are absolutely nothing to do with the original A and everything to do with the BS' own poor coping mechanisms.

yes! And one of the most important questions a recovering BS can ask is what are you going to do to make sure you use healthy coping mechanisms in the future AND (after some IC, introspection and reading perhaps) what are your healthy coping mechanisms now? Because God knows there will be other difficult things faced in the future and a person needs to not escape from it but face it in a mature way that includes healthy self soothing.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5494 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, it really wouldn't and doesn't. There is wayward thinking already afoot, imho, in people that are able to justify having a so called

Really, do you think I am lying when I say I would divorce rather than have a revenge affair?

I sense hostility from you to me, personally. Why is that?

That's interesting. Again, I am looking for thoughts from waywards not betrayed. Even though we disagree we are on the same side.

I said: So, my point here is if the wayward is claiming he/she had an affair in a fog. Would they agree that a BS who has an affair due to hurt and and pain and humiliation is also in the fog.

You said: What is the difference? It is the exact same kind of bullshit justifications.

Yes. I see you get my point. There is no difference.

Revenge affairs belong with the glittery skittle shitting unicorns in Fantasyland.

Again we agree. But you are a betrayed. I am wondering how a wayward would feel. I am not justifying. I am comparing the two to both being a FOG!

Yeah, I guess I do love him the same. I mean is there a measuring stick? Haven't checked that stick if there is one. I love. There is no measurement. You love or you don't. Will I ever 100% trust him? I doubt that, but who knows? Are you saying that the way you love your spouse now includes causing him intentional pain and hurt?

Well I am glad that things are so black and white for you. That makes reconciliation a lot easier for you.

I can love someone and be worried about not trusting them enough to want to spend the rest of my life with them.

I can love someone and not want to stay married to them because they were emotionally and financially abusive by having an affair.

Not everyone feels as you do. People are different and everyone feels.....well, the way they feel. We are not clones, humans. We are individuals.

As I said trust and love go hand in hand for me. If that does not apply to you....then more power to you, sister.

p.s. I may have misunderstood your first point about the fog in that you don't believe the fog can push anyone into having an affair and that your question was directed to WS's.

Yes, you did misunderstand, perhaps that was the hostility I sensed.

Thank you for clarifying.

We are both really on the same side.

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:12 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
NoDoormat
♀ Member
Member # 43529
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But a revenge affair, can also be a long process. Just like the wayward's affair. A revenge affair is not always an immediate reaction. It may occur years later.

The root of it may be the same, in that the person who was cheated on has not properly processed the hurt and neglect of being cheated on.

Again, if the original wayward spouse is rugsweeping or expecting the faithful spouse to just get over the cheating, an revenge affair may be a desperate attempt to try to show the original wayward spouse how it feels to have the person you trusted most in the world pull the rug of trust out from under you, by lying and sneaking around in an affair.

Putting on my WS hat here. Ouch. This is why I feel so much remorse, 10 years later. I should have come fully clean about everything then instead of "protecting" him from the truth because I knew better than him. I want to be a better person than that.


Me: MH 38, Him: MH 40
For-real separation for 3 months now.

Posts: 82 | Registered: May 2014
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I am glad that things are so black and white for you. That makes reconciliation a lot easier for you.
This really made me smile. I have been thinking a lot about black and white thinking lately. No, actually, things aren't all black and white for me. Again, I can't measure how easy or hard our reconciliation was as compared to others. I will say, it wasn't/isn't easy. It takes many leaps of faith, and I am not one to take leaps of faith easily.
I sense hostility from you to me, personally. Why is that?
My sincere apologies, seethelight. There is no hostility. I feel it is my blunt and to the point style of posting that cause some to bristle. It doesn't convey the correct tone I am actually posting with and it seems I can come off as hostile.
Really, do you think I am lying when I say I would divorce rather than have a revenge affair?
I haven't seen that post, so I wasn't applying that to what I was posting. I was saying, with what you had quoted of mine, that BS's that have so called "revenge" affairs already have some wayward thinking going on to be able to justify having an affair, that they have poor coping skills that enable them to think that is what should be done when your spouse has an affair.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:39 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

slight t/j

I love this thread. It makes me feel much more comfortable posting stop-sign free here. I struggled when making that choice for this thread because there are numerous triggers in it, especially for BS's. I really appreciate the discussion.

end t/j


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine did. Didn't hurt any less than if I hadn't had one. In fact, he knew what it felt like to be a BS and he did it. And then he saw what it did to me and he did it again.
Hard stuff to move forward from. I actually kinda gave him a "gimme" because I had had one - BAD move on my part.

Pain and humiliation is just justification for doing it. I was in pain because of lots of crap he pulled before my affair. So? It was my job to handle that a mature way, not a back stabbing way.

And now here we are and I'm in pain and humiliated. Do I have a right to affair back? nope...



I don't advocate revenge affairs. I am just saying a wayward who experiences ONE revenge affair should be understanding and still stick around to try and repair the damage from both affairs.

I think and affair and a revenge affair should end the affair cycle.

Of course his affair hurt you. Now you know how it feels and hopefully would not do it again.

But for him to have a second affair is very wrong and he needs counseling.

I am comparing a revenge affair fog to an original affair fog. That's all.

If an affair and a revenge affair do not end and affair issue in a marriage, IMO, it's time to divorce. Really and truly.

To clarify. I am not defending revenge affairs.

I am simply comparing the state of mind of the FOG as being the same FOG as the original betrayer was feeling, that is if one actually accepts the notion of a FOG.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you phrased BS fog like this, seethelight, it really resonated with me:

a fog of humiliation, distrust, anger, hurt, and pain

The WS fog can stem from that, too, or any other number of things. In any event, the more I read JFO & General, the more I come to understand the devastation of an A on the BS. I would guess that quite a few people don't have healthy coping strategies in place; no one plans to deal with an A in their M. It makes sense to me that an A, revenge or otherwise, may come into the mix for a BS in order to cope. And I'd guess a fair number start with the same slippery slope that mine did--just a friend you can talk to without all the bullshit drama that has taken over your life.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a wayward who experiences ONE revenge affair should be understanding

why?

and you certainly ARE defending RA.

Of course his affair hurt you. Now you know how it feels and hopefully would not do it again.

so our job when our spouse steps out of line is to teach them a lesson? And, it's ok for the BS to degrade themselves to do this? yuck.

[This message edited by rachelc at 1:34 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5494 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It makes sense to me that an A, revenge or otherwise, may come into the mix for a BS in order to cope.

How does this make sense?

It's crappy coping skills, no matter what order it happened in.

I am comparing a revenge affair fog to an original affair fog. That's all.

There is no comparing. RA, A, it's all fucked up coping skills.

My BW had an A 2 years before I had mine. Didn't tell me anything about it, it came up in MC after she discovered my affair. Mt A was not a RA, but it happened after hers. Would it have made any difference to her if it was an RA? None. SHould it had made a difference, NO.

There is no even, there is no level playing field.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seethelight, my H had an A in 2009. I had an A in 2013. I didn't heal from his A, we rug swept the whole thing, never even spoke about it. And yet, my A had bugger all to do with his A. It was just because I had shitty coping mechanisms.

A wayward who experiences ONE revenge affair should be understanding

Why? My H cheated, I stayed. I cheated, he left. My H and I are not children playing tit for tat. The BS having an A of their own doesn't even the score or make things equal. Your spouse having an A doesn't give you a free pass. That's wayward thinking.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - Jan 2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A, revenge or otherwise, may come into the mix for a BS in order to cope.

Splitintwo:

Yes. Thank you for your post.

I think a wayward needs to understand that a revenge affair may be conducted as a way for the betrayed spouse to cope.

IMO, a wayward of all people should be forgiving of a revenge affair.

My original question arose because on various support forums, not necessarily this one, yet, I see a lot of waywards who, after being caught in an affair, insist vehemently that a revenge affair would be grounds for a divorce.

I find that so confusing.

My own husband mentioned this to a counselor and personally, I found it offensive.

He expects me to forgive and forget and move on, but he would not be able to do the same.

It just seems to be a hypocritical mind set, on his part, that I do not understand.

Personally, if I had cheated and my husband had a revenge affair, I would have to forgive him, too. It would be inconceivable for me to not forgive him, while I wanted him to forgive me.

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:55 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seethelight...

You are more than welcome to express your feelings about revenge affairs, but you're not going to come into a protected forum and tell the WS's that they need to accept it and forgive it.

Take that out to General.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198816 | Registered: May 2002
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Admin:

Sorry.

I thought it was okay to post and even asked if it was okay.

If you want me to delete my posts. I will.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think a wayward needs to understand that a revenge affair may conducted as a way for the betrayed spouse to cope.

I think you are mixing everything up with this statement. A WS might understand, but that does not make it a healthy way to deal or cope.

You seem to be saying that either spouse should accept the unhealthy behavior, as long as it came second. Does that make sense?

You can only control yourself, and what your deal breakers are. You cannot control someone else.

For me, the first person I betrayed with my A was myself. Why would ANYONE do that to themselves in the name of a RA?


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 2:05 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seethelight...

Yes, you are open to post on this thread, but please do not preach to the WS's in their own forum that they need to accept and forgive an RA.

That is not the purpose of this forum or this thread.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:09 PM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198816 | Registered: May 2002
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks DS.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6023 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seethelight...

Yes, you are open to post on this thread, but please do not preach to the WS's in their own forum that they need to accept and forgive an RA.

That is not the purpose of this forum or this thread.

Deeply Scarred:

I got it. Thank you for the clarification.

BTW: I read your story just now on your profile page and I thought it was very sensitive and touching.

It was also helpful to understanding the perspective from the other side.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you seethelight...your understanding is very much appreciated


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198816 | Registered: May 2002
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