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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: thoughts on The Fog
splitintwo
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Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whenever you employ phrasing that implies you're not taking ownership of your choices, I'm gonna throw a flag. You weren't a casual observer, split, you didn't "allow it to happen."

It was my choice, yes, but it's not a choice I would make today. That's what I'm trying to get to the root of. My A is not known to BH. Technically, I could continue it. It's already an LTA, so I could employ the "what does it matter? It already lasted years" philosophy & do it anyway. I'm not trying to justify maintaining the A, or anything like that. The prospect of engaging in that behavior now, when my mind is well, makes me ill. I allowed myself to make that choice. I have to understand how that happened.

It brings home the point that someone made either in this thread or the one in General: All Waywards are different, even though much of our behavior may be the same. It's like how I can't conceptualize going to a bar/signing up for a match service & having sex with a stranger. Others likely can't conceive of a LTA. I can have an A & still not understand what drives others to have one.

It's not just compartmentalization, though that came into play along the way. I've lived with that my whole life. This was different. It's hard to explain. While reading JFO/General, I'll see tons of generalizations re: the A being an escape from responsibility, fun, stress-free, all that. Mine was the opposite. We fought. We had "more issues than Newsweek." It wasn't that kind of escape for me...on my end, it was an escape from having to pretend that I'm not broken. It wasn't love (though I know I thought Ioved him at one point). Especially in the beginning, he could trigger lighter depression days in me. It began as just immature joking around. Then things got worse in me & when things got worse in the friendship because AP's depression/alcoholism worsened & he withdrew, it was like my brain snapped. I became driven to get that back, my "safe" fix for a "good" day when I was very depressed, and it spiraled from there.

Another interesting point (as in, I've noted it for when I pursue IC once I get back in town): The physical sensations AP tripped in me were very comparable to the ones my molester did when I was a kid. It's not something I was really aware of at the time, but as I've been defogging, I've really put a lot of thought into all aspects of my A, and that was one that stuck out. There were things in my A that are comparable to grooming behaviors. And like in my A, there are behaviors that could be construed as me initiating/enabling my CSA experience. Obviously at 9 I could not make that choice, not in any real sense, and I know that intellectually, but the parallels now give me the heebie-jeebies.

I'd have difficulty leaving BH if I found out he had an A. That said, I struggle with revenge affair thinking because it's done more deliberately. I know an A doesn't "just happen," but at least in my case, there was a very long progression for it to get to that point. I didn't just wake up one day & decide to have an A. I wouldn't go out & have an A right now. I had to break one piece at a time, shift one variable at a time, to get to the point where that became a choice I could make. I didn't do it to get back at my husband, to leave the M, to feel better about me, or any other number of more common reasons that I read on here. I now know my why. And that's an important first step to becoming a safer partner.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
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Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

triple post

[This message edited by splitintwo at 4:52 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

triple post

[This message edited by splitintwo at 4:51 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*tmi

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 12:39 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)]


Posts: 333 | Registered: Nov 2010
RomanticInnocenc
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Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BW here. I think A's become like addictions, I believe that there is a 'fog' as such, I think it's born from the justifications one has to tell themselves it's ok, what I'm doing is not that bad. I think you have to create the fog in order to do something that goes against your values. The BS fog is much the same, the mind creates a state in which the BS can function. Having the knowledge that someone you trusted to love you forever has committed unspeakable betrayal is overwhelming and likely to send someone over the edge if it weren't for the mind going into protection mode and dulling the senses enough to survive.

IMHO, where I get stuck, is why you allowed that door to crack enough to let another person in. The process of going into the fog, to me, seems like a deliberate choice. Like you are in a car at the top of a hill, you can see the valley is full of fog and you know you BS is down there wondering around, but you decide to drive full speed ahead anyway, running over your BS because.... Why? My answer- selfishness, entitlement, immaturity, disconnection within yourself.

I keep asking my WH why did you marry me? If you knew you were capable of this, why marry me? At the end of the day that was just selfishness too, because he wanted to, I was the constant, I was what his values and desires wanted. He never thought about what he needed to provide for me. It was all about him!


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 289 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
BrokenButTrying
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Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me, fog is like the condensation you get in the bathroom after taking a shower. You know, it hangs in the air and it steams up the mirror.

'The fog' is just a nickname for the series of events (spanning a life time, years, months, whatever) before the A that allowed the WS to feel justified in choosing infidelity. The fog continues to hang around after the A, misting up the mirror because the hidden reflection is just too horrible.

The fog is what allows a WS to feel entitled, justified in their actions.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1230 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
splitintwo
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Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep asking my WH why did you marry me? If you knew you were capable of this, why marry me?

What does your WH say in response?

Personally, I did not know I was capable of this.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH says he married me because he loved me and wanted to be the person he thought he was giving me. He had at the time of proposing, had phone sex and exchanged a series of explicit private messages on fb with an ex cow, who he saw as a tool to make masterbation more exciting. So he justified it by seeing it like porn. He had felt guilty, but ultimately saw it as something that was ok if no one knew. In his eyes, according to him, I was the one he wanted to make a life with, we'd been together for 6 years before he proposed and he deliberately waited to make sure we were right. Basically he compartmentalised it all, had for our entire relationship. He says he really wanted to be the man I thought he was, he had the same values as I, he just over rode them in order to fulfil his selfishness when he needed to. Now that is in the light of day he is working hard to show that the selfishness doesn't have to be his defining characteristic, that he can live by he values and be a safe husband... I'm still watching.


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 289 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
ResoluteH
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Member # 39673
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seethelight wrote:

For a looong time after dday, I embraced the fog.

It was a tremendous relief to cling to the notion that my always logical husband had temporarily become some type of mindless pod person who was not in control of his faculties.

Later, however, I came to see it as an excuse.

It seemed similar to the blameshifting (i.e. my WS said things like, "I did not think you love me anymore" Or saying the OW was "persistent and sexually aggressive." She was, but so what.)

"Fog" is simply a label attached to what some people experience when they are having an affair. Personally, I don't think it's a very good label because it seems to imply an inability to see clearly what one is doing. I knew very well what I was doing, and I knew it was wrong. But I chose to do it anyway because I got something out of it. (One of the things our couselor coaches us to do is, in evaluating our behavior, ask ourselves, "What do I get out of it, or what does it get me out of?") I've never done drugs, but I've heard recovering addicts say similar things -- "I knew it was wrong. I knew I was hurting others. I knew I was hurting myself. But I did it anyway because the attraction was so strong." So even though I can't compare the experiences from first-hand knowledge of both of them, I think the "fog" it's much more like being on a drug. One doesn't really get anything out of being in a fog; one gets something out of being on a drug.

Does that mean I wasn't "in control of my faculties?" Not at all. But it means there was something that was so strong, I was willing to do the worst thing I've even done. Note that word: WILLING. I wasn't duped. There was no Jedi mind trick. I made the choice. But that doesn't make what I experienced at the time any less real.

As for the fog being an excuse -- maybe, but only if the WS uses it as an excuse. But again, using it as an excuse doesn't make it any less real.


Resolute Husband

Posts: 35 | Registered: Jun 2013
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thoughts on The Fog
My thoughts on the fog. It is the magical, mystical thinking of some waywards. As others have stated, it is the combination of compartmentalization, denial, justifications, rationalizations, rewriting, deluded, selfish thinking that the WS indulges in. Some choose to think this way so they can do what they want to do. Some are able to convince themselves with this thinking that they "deserve" to have an affair. Some are able to convince themselves that "what they don't know won't hurt them". Some are able to convince themselves that what they are doing isn't really "that bad".

I agree with the many that have posted about it being similar to addictions. You know you shouldn't, you may not even really want to, but the payoff you get is so powerful it is hard to resist.

- "I knew it was wrong. I knew I was hurting others. I knew I was hurting myself. But I did it anyway because the attraction was so strong."
I agree with your post very much, ResoluteH. However, I would prefer the word "payoff" as opposed to "attraction" because that implies that you were strongly attracted to the AP (which maybe, in your case, you were), when in fact, I feel it was more likely it was the "affair" that was the real attraction and the feelings you get from the affair.
Does that mean I wasn't "in control of my faculties?" Not at all. But it means there was something that was so strong, I was willing to do the worst thing I've even done. Note that word: WILLING. I wasn't duped. There was no Jedi mind trick. I made the choice. But that doesn't make what I experienced at the time any less real.
Great insight, ResoluteH.

I tend to find BS's using the "s/he was in a fog" as an excuse for their WS's who are, in reality, just a big asshole more than I see WS's here at SI using it as an excuse. (Although, many WS's try to use it when they first get here, but the other FWS soon let them know that isn't going to work here.)

As for the fog being an excuse -- maybe, but only if the WS uses it as an excuse. But again, using it as an excuse doesn't make it any less real.
Agree.

eta: to change what could sound like a generalization

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:35 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9496 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
deena04
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Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Split))) as a BS, I want to say thank you for revealing your views on this. My WS says the same thing. He never told me until I had a gut feeling to check email and, wham, 20 months after the fact and 4 months after our wedding, I find the emails where he had arranged and met a chic for one-time. He said he "snapped out of it and realized omg what am I doing and got out of there without completing the act completely". Don't know if it's completely true, but he has never changed that story. He committed immediately to being a better man and working on us (we lived together, but were having issues). He became a good man. We ended up marrying last year, but I found those fucking emails 4 months later. I am a hardcore, no second chance kind of chic, so I have filed, but am watching his continuous actions of remorse and it makes me want to reconcile, but not in this marriage. We would remarry if it works. Long story not so short, I had not seen another feel the remorse and want to be better before the BS knew until reading your post. Thank you :)


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
Filed, but may R after

Posts: 844 | Registered: Dec 2013
seethelight
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Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The physical sensations AP tripped in me were very comparable to the ones my molester did when I was a kid.

In your case, split in two, I do agree that due to being molested at nine, you may be in a fog about an affair.

Please discuss this with your counselor. It needs to be addressed.

My spouse has no such similar excuse. He had an almost ideal childhood.

That said, I struggle with revenge affair thinking because it's done more deliberately. I know an A doesn't "just happen," but at least in my case, there was a very long progression for it to get to that point.

Everyone has trouble processing an affair. It doesn't matter, if it's a revenge affair or any other type of affair.

Many times, the intent of a revenge affair is not actually revenge but a desperate attempt to show the original wayward how it feels to be cheated on.

Also it's important to know that sometimes the person in a marriage who was unfaithful first is cheating out of revenge, sometimes because the wayward may feel the spouse is not meeting a need in some way and the wayward feels hurt or neglected.

My wayward husband told a counselor he thought I was too cautious with our spending, so he found a woman who was frivolous about money to spend money HE DID NOT HAVE on.

He now realizes how crazy that was because we could not afford to spend frivolously but at the time, he admits he was angry about it.

But a revenge affair, can also be a long process. Just like the wayward's affair. A revenge affair is not always an immediate reaction. It may occur years later.

The root of it may be the same, in that the person who was cheated on has not properly processed the hurt and neglect of being cheated on.

Again, if the original wayward spouse is rugsweeping or expecting the faithful spouse to just get over the cheating, an revenge affair may be a desperate attempt to try to show the original wayward spouse how it feels to have the person you trusted most in the world pull the rug of trust out from under you, by lying and sneaking around in an affair.

[This message edited by seethelight at 9:31 AM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 914 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
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Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMHO, where I get stuck, is why you allowed that door to crack enough to let another person in. The process of going into the fog, to me, seems like a deliberate choice.

This makes sense to me and it is my question, too.


Resolute H:

Thank you for your very thoughtful post.

But it means there was something that was so strong, I was willing to do the worst thing I've even done. Note that word: WILLING. I wasn't duped. There was no Jedi mind trick. I made the choice. But that doesn't make what I experienced at the time any less real.

So, if your wife had an affair, due to hurt and pain of your affair, would you realize that what pushed her into an affair was "something so strong she was willing to do the worst thing"?

Would you realize she was in a fog of humiliation, distrust, anger, hurt, and pain, possibly.

When my husband told a counselor he would not be able to get past a revenge affair, it made me very angry because then why would he expect me to stay with him.

It makes me feel as if he thinks I am a fool to stay after he cheated because he certainly would not stay with me, if I did the same.

He uses the fog as his excuse. I think the fog can be a two way street and he needs to realize that.


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 914 | Registered: May 2014
splitintwo
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Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if the original wayward spouse is rugsweeping or expecting the faithful spouse to just get over the cheating, an revenge affair may be a desperate attempt to try to show the original wayward spouse how it feels to have the person you trusted most in the world pull the rug of trust out from under you, by lying and sneaking around in an affair.

This makes sense to me.

I was hearing it as a more direct "I'm going to go out & have an affair now" type of thing. An intentional act done to even the score, so to speak. Like everything, there's a range, & I was only looking at one end of it. Thanks for explaining that, seethelight.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
♀ Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMHO, where I get stuck, is why you allowed that door to crack enough to let another person in. The process of going into the fog, to me, seems like a deliberate choice.

I still need to read Not Just Friends. But yes, there was a deliberate choice at one point to allow the door to crack enough to let another person in. In my case, I reconnected with an old friend once he returned to the states. We have an easy rapport, so when he randomly chatted with me during one of my late-night zone sessions, we fell into conversation. Edited to add: He also kept late hours, so I replaced my "watch bad tv" sessions with joking around online with AP & listening to music. In my brain, they were comparable acts. It was just something to do.

It was nice to have that type of a friend again, someone to talk about trivial nothings, joke around with, all that. The thought of an affair never entered my brain. Opening the door a crack proved to be one of the biggest mistakes of my life. With hindsight, I'd do things much differently, but at the time, I never in a million years would have thought conversing with a friend would lead to this.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 9:41 AM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
IntoTheLight
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Member # 42957
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Opening the door a crack proved to be one of the biggest mistakes of my life. With hindsight, I'd do things much differently, but at the time, I never in a million years would have thought conversing with a friend would lead to this.

Exactly. I cracked the door and slowly entered the fog. It is very real. I don't talk to BH about it or see it as it as an excuse, it's just the best way to describe the state of mind I was in. I was doing something that went against everything I believed was right- I felt confused and crazy and obsessed.

I know the fog is real because when I saw the anguish in BH when I confessed, it lifted. Instantly. The confusion was gone, the lights came on, my mind was right again. But yes, I absolutely chose to crack that door and enter the fog.


WW-Me
BS-Him
Reconciling after confessing LTA

Posts: 60 | Registered: Mar 2014
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some thoughts on a so called "revenge affair". This putting the word "revenge" really is annoying to me. An affair is an affair. Putting the word "revenge" in front of it doesn't justify it. As seethelight points out, the WS who has an affair maybe doing it out of "revenge".

I know my FWH was very angry (hurt) by me because he felt I didn't love or appreciate him, took him for granted. He had to "show me" that he was wanted by someone else. Which is ridiculous because he didn't want me to find out either, so it was his "secret revenge".

the intent of a revenge affair is not actually revenge but a desperate attempt to show the original wayward how it feels to be cheated on.
I really don't understand the need to go and intentionally hurt someone you love. To show them how it feels. I would never want to hurt someone I love in this most devastating way that I was hurt. Or to hurt him in anyway.

I have not told anyone IRL about his affair and many here suggested I tell everyone. That my FWH deserved for everyone to know. My BF, who I would have told, died 2 months before d-day. My other BF is one of my sisters. I wouldn't tell her because there are no secrets in my FoO, if you tell one member, everyone is going to find out. I don't want our children to know because I know they will lose respect for their father, they will still love him, but he will be diminished. I know it can be gained back, but I just didn't want to hurt fWH in that way. If they did find out accidentally, I know we would have to and would deal with it.

I am big on justice, but I don't get how "revenge" affairs is in anyway getting justice. Intentionally hurting the person I love most in the world just doesn't seem like "balancing" things for me. Why would I want to hurt someone I profess to love? When I read about someone wanting to have a revenge affair, I really have to wonder how much they really love their spouse if all they want to do is hurt them. It sounds like abuse to me.

So, if your wife had an affair, due to hurt and pain of your affair, would you realize that what pushed her into an affair was "something so strong she was willing to do the worst thing"?

Would you realize she was in a fog of humiliation, distrust, anger, hurt, and pain, possibly.

I don't agree with this at all. No one is "pushed" into an affair. It is a choice. Putting the word "revenge" in front of the word "affair" doesn't change one iota of it being a deliberate choice to commit infidelity.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9496 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

great post Sister!


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4696 | Registered: Dec 2010
seethelight
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Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am big on justice, but I don't get how "revenge" affairs is in anyway getting justice. Intentionally hurting the person I love most in the world just doesn't seem like "balancing" things for me. Why would I want to hurt someone I profess to love? When I read about someone wanting to have a revenge affair, I really have to wonder how much they really love their spouse if all they want to do is hurt them. It sounds like abuse to me.

Sister milk shake:

You are entitled to feel the way you feel.

I am not asking you or anyone to agree.

I am asking wayward's how they would feel if their spouse had an affair in a FOG of hurt an pain and humiliation.

I agree. A revenge affair is NOT about revenge, most shrinks would agree, too.

So, my point here is if the wayward is claiming he/she had an affair in a fog. Would they agree that a BS who has an affair due to hurt and and pain and humiliation is also in a FOG.

That's the question.

Also, you may love your spouse the same way you did after his affair, but not everyone does.

When I am honest with myself, I can not say I love my husband the same way after his affair that I did before.

Love and trust go hand and hand to me. I really can not at this point trust my husband.

I may regain that trust someday, but not today.

Lastly, yes an affair is emotionally abusive, many counselors agree with that statement.

So our spouses emotionally abused us by having and affair.

Personally, a revenge affair at least has an obvious external reason.

The wayward who engaged in the original affair does not have a valid external reason. Often they simply blameshift to the faithful spouse.


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 914 | Registered: May 2014
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not asking you or anyone to agree.
Agreed. However, I will disagree with your opinion, again. On at least a couple of points.
So, my point here is if the wayward is claiming he/she had an affair in a fog. Would they agree that a BS who has an affair due to hurt and and pain and humiliation is also in a FOG.
What is the difference? It is the exact same kind of bullshit justifications.
Personally, a revenge affair at least has an obvious external reason.
No, it really wouldn't and doesn't. There is wayward thinking already afoot, imho, in people that are able to justify having a so called "revenge" affair but, in truth, was just an affair.

Revenge affairs belong with the glittery skittle shitting unicorns in Fantasyland.

The wayward who engaged in the original affair does not have a valid external reason.
No one has a valid external reason for having an affair. No. One.
Also, you may love your spouse the same way you did after his affair, but not everyone does.
Yeah, I guess I do love him the same. I mean is there a measuring stick? Haven't checked that stick if there is one. I love. There is no measurement. You love or you don't. Will I ever 100% trust him? I doubt that, but who knows? Are you saying that the way you love your spouse now includes causing him intentional pain and hurt?


p.s. I may have misunderstood your first point about the fog in that you don't believe the fog can push anyone into having an affair and that your question was directed to WS's.



BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


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