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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure a lot of people probably say this, but right now I think that if R doesn't work out, I'm done with women. Stick a fork in me. Too much hassle, too much drama, too much guesswork and luck involved.

I'll dedicate the rest of my life to my children, eventual grandchildren, my practice, community involvement, and leisure activities.

This, 1000x.

Everywhere I look now, I don't see male/female interactions in a normal light...it's bizarre, like watching a nature film: I mentally catalogue behaviors when I people watch.

An attention-seeking behavior here, a learned helplessness there, some subtle manipulation to the left of me, some guy feeding the drama llama to my right.

I'm just hyperaware of people's 'tells' now, so to speak....and I have zero patience for any of it.

I have a hard time imagining being able to be in a relationship with anyone, like, ever. I mean, I suppose I could, but I feel like I wouldn't be very much fun to be in a relationship with, because I'd *verbally* curbstomp the first woman who tried to pull any of that manipulative bullshit.

And so many men view those interactions as a necessary part of the dating/courting process that I doubt I'd get past a second date before the lady would decide that there are guys out there much easier to deal with....and I say all that recognizing that I was kind of a dick to begin with.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2075 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well put Ascendant.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1386 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All in favor of being done if jjct ever abandons this thread?

The ayes have it! jj must stay.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1386 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:25 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure a lot of people probably say this, but right now I think that if R doesn't work out, I'm done with women. Stick a fork in me. Too much hassle, too much drama, too much guesswork and luck involved.

well said Sal. I've been there for some time now. I think that is the basis for my lack of desire. i'm just through with the drama.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I finally got the strength and contacted the D Lawyer. I was going to contact a mediator, but they said you have to talk to WW ahead of meeting if you want to get everything worked out in as quick as 4 sessions.

I download "Love Must Be Tough" and reading that right now at work when I have times.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
cvs2kkids
♂ Member
Member # 41298
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT,

Bar Harbour is beautiful.

If you have time, come to Saint Andrews, NB, Canada, a lot like Bar Harbour, without the traffic. It's about 2.5 hours north along route 1.

Google St Andrews by the sea to have a look,


Philippians 4:6-7

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your min


Posts: 219 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NB Canada
Nitrobob
♂ Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ending on a downer last night, gents!

I think it's important to remember that we all had a good thing going, at least for a time, or we wouldn't have gotten married to begin with.

Emotionally, I too felt like crossing out all of the good times once the horror hit, but with the benefit of some time, I see that is unrealistic.

The good times still count, they still made a chunk of your life wonderful, they still produced the children you love, etc etc. There is
a short time when you thought things were fine and they really weren't, that has to be erased, and the LTA folks have more to cross out here.

I also think, if it doesn't work out, we should get back on the horse again. You know, Shakespeare, better to have loved and lost than never having loved at all.


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 133 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You think Shakespeare got cheated on...

A 3 years LTA that started a couple months after DD was born. I crossed out a lot of moments, because she was wearing his necklace and not sure if anything is actually truly her doing it out of love or just doing it to be doing it/not feel guilty...


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I love you guys

@ Sal

We projected our own values and mores onto our wives.

Indeed. That whole post was right tf on.

If there is a single one of us who was not
watched like a hawk
falsely accused
etc etc etc
I would be surprised. Amazed. Dumbfounded. Flabbergasted.

Is there not true and incredible wisdom in these words?:
For as (s)he thinketh in his(her) heart, so is (s)he - or
as James Allen says:
As a man thinketh in his heart so is he.

Thought in the mind hath made us. What we are
By thought we wrought and built. If a man's mind
Hath evil thoughts, pain comes on him as comes
The wheel the ox behind . . . If one endure in purity
of thought joy follows him as his own shadow - sure.

More:
Of all the beautiful truths pertaining to the soul which have been restored and brought to light in this age, none is more gladdening or fruitful of divine promise and confidence than this - that man is the master of thought, the molder of character, and maker and shaper of condition, environment, and destiny.

As a being of Power, Intelligence, and Love, and the lord of his own thoughts, man holds the key to every situation, and contains within himself that transforming and regenerative agency by which he may make himself what he wills.

Cherish your visions. Cherish your ideals. Cherish the music that stirs in your heart, the beauty that forms in your mind, the loveliness that drapes your purest thoughts, for out of them will grow all delightful conditions, all heavenly environment; of these, if you but remain true to them, your world will at last be built.
(wal must have read this!):

http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

The whole thing is quote-worthy.

Ascendant - I totally get your post.
I'm so hyperaware that I feel like Superman's fucking cousin. I have to make an effort to turn that shit off!
(maybe that's why I dig chess - I mean, a nuclear bomb could go off next to me and I wouldn't notice. Yeah. Look! A chess game!)

Don't denigrate the power brother - you're not a dick!
You are an integrated man. (aka - Superman's other fucking cousin!)

Once you fold that skill (I call it "eye skill") into your repertoire, it becomes smoother. You'll *see*. Promise.

It's a beautiful beautiful thing.
Though, it is a challenge not to laugh at what we see our 'other brothers' go through for tang...until we realize,
we're laughing at ourselves, really.


Posts: 6581 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LS - Dobson will strengthen you. Heed it. Good on you for lawyering-up.
Shakespeare?
No.
He's dead to me.
Fucker poser he was.
With
love is not love
which alters
when it alteration finds
????
Bull. Shit.

He was just trying to get under a petticoat with that nonsense.

At least Andrew Marvell was up-front about it - I can respect that, though his "coy mistress" had the, and I mean THE epic comeback.

His Coy Mistress to Mr. Marvell

Since you have world enough and time
Sir, to admonish me in rhyme,
Pray Mr Marvell, can it be
You think to have persuaded me?
Then let me say: you want the art
To woo, much less to win my heart.
The verse was splendid, all admit,
And, sir, you have a pretty wit.
All that indeed your poem lacked
Was logic, modesty, and tact,
Slight faults and ones to which I own,
Your sex is generally prone;
But though you lose your labour, I
Shall not refuse you a reply:
First, for the language you employ:
A term I deprecate is “coy”;
The ill-bred miss, the bird-brained Jill,
May simper and be coy at will;
A lady, sir, as you will find,
Keeps counsel, or she speaks her mind,
Means what she says and scorns to fence
And palter with feigned innocence.
The ambiguous “mistress” next you set
Beside this graceless epithet.
“Coy mistress”, sir? Who gave you leave
To wear my heart upon your sleeve?
Or to imply, as sure you do,
I had no other choice than you
And must remain upon the shelf
Unless I should bestir myself?
Shall I be moved to love you, pray,
By hints that I must soon decay?
No woman’s won by being told
How quickly she is growing old;
Nor will such ploys, when all is said,
Serve to stampede us into bed.
When from pure blackmail, next you move
To bribe or lure me into love,
No less inept, my rhyming friend,
Snared by the means, you miss your end.
“Times winged chariot”, and the rest
As poetry may pass the test;
Readers will quote those lines, I trust,
Till you and I and they are dust;
But I, your destined prey, must look
Less at the bait than at the hook,
Nor, when I do, can fail to see
Just what it is you offer me:
Love on the run, a rough embrace
Snatched in the fury of the chase,
The grave before us and the wheels
Of Time’s grim chariot at our heels,
While we, like “am’rous birds of prey”,
Tear at each other by the way.
To say the least, the scene you paint
Is, what you call my honour, quaint!
And on this point what prompted you
So crudely, and in public too,
To canvass and , indeed, make free
With my entire anatomy?
Poets have licence, I confess,
To speak of ladies in undress;
Thighs, hearts, brows, breasts are well enough,
In verses this is common stuff;
But — well I ask: to draw attention
To worms in — what I blush to mention,
And prate of dust upon it too!
Sir, was this any way to woo?
Now therefore, while male self-regard
Sits on your cheek, my hopeful bard,
May I suggest, before we part,
The best way to a woman’s heart
Is to be modest, candid, true;
Tell her you love and show you do;
Neither cajole nor condescend
And base the lover on the friend;
Don’t bustle her or fuss or snatch:
A suitor looking at his watch
Is not a posture that persuades
Willing, much less reluctant maids.
Remember that she will be stirred
More by the spirit than the word;
For truth and tenderness do more
Than coruscating metaphor.
Had you addressed me in such terms
And prattled less of graves and worms,
I might, who knows, have warmed to you;
But, as things stand, must bid adieu
(Though I am grateful for the rhyme)
And wish you better luck next time.

That, gentlemen, is completely delicious.


Posts: 6581 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
MovingUpward
♂ Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure a lot of people probably say this, but right now I think that if R doesn't work out, I'm done with women. Stick a fork in me. Too much hassle, too much drama, too much guesswork and luck involved.

I think that many of us say this. I was pretty adamant about this right after my Divorce but I am open to future relationships at this point. Just listen to your gut to help gauge you.


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 52198 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today, she still wonders why I don't like the beach anymore and she continues to send pictures of the kids at that forest even though she knows it triggers me. I don't react - I can't react or she'll continue doing it forever - but it's just a world of hurt.

Funny how some WW just dont get this.

WW and OM would go to the beach allot. OM lives near there. They had *their* beach. They would leave work for a long lunch and go there and do things in the back of our van. So romantic eh?

Ive asked where *their beach* is and WW says she forgets. Right.

I tried to reclaim some of it with her but just couldnt. So I refuse to go to the beach anymore. Funny though because I can go to beaches in other parts of the country alone and not be triggered too much. Its just that specific area where they went that triggers me.

Its like that beach is polluted for me now.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure a lot of people probably say this, but right now I think that if R doesn't work out, I'm done with women. Stick a fork in me. Too much hassle, too much drama, too much guesswork and luck involved.

Right there with you brother. Although I am D'ing so as it stands I AM done. I see so much disfunction and unrealistic expectation in our culture today when it comes to dating/relationships. As a man I just don't see the benefit to it. I am not saying that it's all about my benefit, but the risk isn't worth it. That's not to say I don't desire women (it is however a very diminished desire right now), but it is exhausting. I won't tolerate the mental games or double standards anymore. Seems like true honesty and respect has been lost.
Besides, my kids bring me far more joy and hapiness and love than a wife/gf could. Love for my kids is unconditional and lasting. The connection with them is always there.

PS - I am severely jaded right now.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 9:34 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am doing it. I am going to write a letter like the one described in this book. I am getting out of this with my Respect and Dignity.

I will run it by the group.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am getting out of this with my Respect and Dignity.

Sometimes it's all we can do. Best wishes LS.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanna say, happy Wednesday everyone.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whoa slh!
Might be a bit 'hoppy' for me, idk, I know I couldn't quaff too many of 'em!
"After years of experimenting, we knew hopping an ale at five separate stages would produce something special. The result ended up being this gold-medal winning IPA, whose inspired use of hops creates hints of apricot, peach, mango and lemon flavors, but still packs a bit of a sting, just like a Sculpin fish."

The reviews of that particular brew seem universally...not so much *like*...more like *love*.


Posts: 6581 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My Letter to WW, based on Dobson's book. Please Review:
WW,
It has been rough for me since you decided to leave me October 26 of last year. My love for you was so great. I only wanted to be married once and committed to that person I choose to marry forever or until I died. In the beginning I attempted whatever it took to keep you in this marriage. As I took a step back from the it occurred to me that I can not keep you in the marriage. I did not force you into this marriage in any form or fashion. In fact, it was your own free choice that you choose to be in this marriage. I didn't even pressure you to marry me.

It is very intriguing how people act in the time of crisis. Things become blurred and in the last 8 or 9 months that has happen to me as well. In the last few weeks I have actually been able to stand back from our difficulties. I now see everything in a new light. I realized how stupid and naive I have been. I was duped into thinking your affair(s) were over. I tried to do everything to "WIN" you back. I went on medications, went to anger management and counseling and anything you basically demanded to keep you from leaving. I guess I loved you so much that I was willing to do anything for you.

I no longer will WW. Those days are over. If you want to go you then by all means go. It might be for the best. If the actions you have demonstrated in these past couple of weeks are of any indications of who you really are, I doubt I will ever trust you again or feel for you as I used to. I by no means was a perfect husband but I can say my lips never touched another woman's, or let another woman touch my body since I pledge my life to you. You however let not one but two men or possibly more defile the marriage bed where your daughter and I slept for three years or more. I am no longer special to you-I'm just DD's father, not your friend or husband. I can't live with that. I rather face life alone than be another Tom, Dick or Harry in your cesspool. If OM1, OM2 or any other guy is the one you want to be with, then I hope you two are happy together. I don't see how God can bless anything moving forward, based off his own words, but that is between you and the Lord. We both have to answer to him, but I worked on my Porn issues, 4 years sober, I worked on my anger, and at this point in my life, my conscience is clear.

Where do we go from here WW? I been thinking and believe it is time to end this whatever it is because it is not a marriage. It will not work with us being separated as we are, and making me visit your parents house to visit my own DD and you are just going on like life is normal. You say you aren't sure if you want to comeback because there have been so many up and downs. That is not inspiring to me at all, especially seeing how we committed to love each other, for rich or for poorer, in sickness and in health, in the good times and the bad, until death does us apart. I wanted to keep my family intact and have a family that would be filled with love and have a great support system for DD and all the children to come. Most importantly I wanted to have a wife that no matter what would always do the Godly thing in all situations, even if she did something wrong because she would be a good example to my children as what a Christian Wife/Mother/Woman should be.

If you decide to be that woman in the future, we can talk about it. I can make no promises at this point because I am working on detaching myself from you so my heart so I no longer have to go through anymore pain. It will not be easy because you were my one and only love that I ever wanted to be with and. That was then and this is now. God Bless you WW. I will always be there for DD and I will miss you dearly.

LS

[This message edited by LostSamurai at 8:36 AM, June 26th (Thursday)]


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Nitrobob
♂ Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

st cleaned up the grammer a bit, kept all of your own words. Hope that helps.

It has been rough for me since you decided to leave me October 26 of last year. My love for you was so great. I only wanted to be married once and committed to that person I choose to marry forever or until I died. In the beginning I attempted whatever it took to keep you in this marriage. As I took a step back, it occurred to me that I cannot keep you in the marriage. I did not force you into this marriage in any form or fashion. In fact, it was your own free choice that you choose to be in this marriage. I didn't even pressure you to marry me.
It is very intriguing how people act in a time of crisis. Things became blurred in the last 8 or 9 months. In the last few weeks I have actually been able to stand back from our difficulties. I now see everything in a new light. I realized how stupid and naive I have been. I was duped into thinking your affair(s) were over. I tried to do everything to "WIN" you back. I went on medications, went to anger management and counseling and anything you basically demanded to keep you from leaving. I guess I loved you so much that I was willing to do anything for you.
I no longer will WW. Those days are over. If you want to go you then by all means go. It might be for the best. If the actions you have demonstrated in these past couple of weeks are of any indication of who you really are, I doubt I will ever trust you again or feel for you as I used to. I by no means was a perfect husband but I can say my lips never touched another woman's, or let another woman touch my body since I pledged my life to you. You, however, let not one, but two men or possibly more defile the marriage bed where your daughter and I slept for three years or more. I am no longer special to you-I'm just DD's father, not your friend or husband. I can't live with that. I’d rather face life alone than be another Tom, Dick or Harry in your cesspool. If OM1, OM2 or any other guy is the one you want to be with, then I hope you two are happy together. I don't see how God can bless anything moving forward, based on his own words, but that is between you and the Lord. We both have to answer to him, but I worked on my porn issues, am 4 years sober, worked on my anger, and at this point in my life, my conscience is clear.
Where do we go from here WW? I’ve been thinking and believe it is time to end this whatever it is because it is not a marriage. It will not work with us being separated as we are, and making me visit your parents’ house to visit my own DD and you are just going on like life is normal. You say you aren't sure if you want to come back because there have been so many up and downs. That is not inspiring to me at all, especially seeing how we committed to love each other, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, in the good times and bad, until death do us part. I wanted to keep my family intact and have a family that would be filled with love and have a great support system for DD and all the children to come. Most importantly I wanted to have a wife that no matter what would always do the Godly thing in all situations, even if she did something wrong because she would be a good example to my children as what a Christian Wife/Mother/Woman should be.
If you decide to be that woman in the future, we can talk about it. I can make no promises at this point because I am working on detaching myself from you so my heart won’t ache any longer. It will not be easy because you were my one and only love that I ever wanted to be with, but was that was then and this is now. God Bless you WW. I will always be there for DD and I will miss you dearly.

[This message edited by Nitrobob at 9:21 AM, June 26th (Thursday)]


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


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