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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not envy your situations, but I envy the fact your FWW have showed remorse.

I feel like I am being forced to divorce her because of her. Does that make sense?

I gave her all her clothes and stuff. She didn't throw up a fight or anything. That really hurt...

I am not worth fighting for.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not worth fighting for.

Or maybe she feels she doesn't deserve you?


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3856 | Registered: Dec 2011
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: masculinity
My narrative now, 3.5 years out from d-day1 and 1 year from D being final, is honestly that xTY had her A because I was too much of a man for her…

We did enough MC and I’ve read enough on here that I believe I have a little insight into her mindset. I know that she never felt worthy of me, and lied to pretend to be a person who was. I know that one of xTY’s biggest attractions to POSER is that she didn’t have to ‘live up’ to him (of course she blamed me for this). And, I've read several stories in wayward with similar themes.

It was mentioned a few pages back that a WW who R has to live with the fact that they are not ‘good enough’ for their BH, that their BH deserves better. I truly believe that was why xTY filed for D. Not only did she believe she wasn’t ‘good enough’ but she simply couldn’t live with the fact that I 100% knew it.

And lastly, I leave you with a quote I got from jjct, but am not sure where it originally came from –

How can a person be so broken as to turn their back on their own happiness?

Everyone wants to be loved. People who, at their very core, don't believe they deserve anything good will use whatever method necessary to draw good things into their lives, then destroy those good things because they don't believe they deserve it.

Can you imagine the emotional anguish a person like that lives with all the time???

They don't love themselves, so they seek love that comes from outside themselves. They crave it SO badly, they need it more than AIR, and they'll do WHATEVER they have to get it (lie, cheat, steal, manipulate.)

But when they get what they want most, the paradox begins... acquiring such love only highlights for them their deficiencies (real or perceived). The very presence of such love is a constant reminder that they're not worthy of it. The more pure and ferocious the love they receive, the more it draws attention to their belief they're not worthy of it, and the less they can tolerate its presence in their lives.

Our love is a source of exquisite pain for them.

How would you feel if you were a simple uneducated peasant, and the people of a small country thought you were more than that - and crowned you Royalty? You'd feel like a fraud, right? If you accepted that role, knowing you weren't qualified, you'd be terrified of being "found out"... every moment of every day would be a reminder that you are NOT royalty... that you shouldn't be enjoying the riches of this country... that you didn't deserve the adoration and loyalty bestowed on you by its people. In your mind, these people made a huge mistake and gave you a position you didn't deserve.
How long do you think you could live with that kind of pressure?
See what I mean?

We loved our partners well.

After a while, they simply couldn't stand the pain it caused them and they destroyed it. They had to annihilate the source of adoration and service that kept poking at their awareness. In most cases, this is not consciously done - the pain they felt caused them, compelled them actually, without their understanding, “drove them” to eventually seek relief, and the way they've always felt better is to go out and get more love! (or just “go” – abandon the external “source” of pain).
See...the discomfort they feel because of the presence of love is an opportunity... it SHOULD motivate them to go deeper INTO the discomfort and figure out WHY they feel so distressed when they're loved well. This is their chance to heal very deep wounds - to plug up the holes in their souls.

But many of them don't go beyond the discomfort stage. Avoiding pain at all cost is the knee jerk reaction most people have. They simply do whatever they have to do to make the pain stop. The short term solution they come up with doesn't SOLVE the root problem, it only gives temporary relief from the discomfort and ensures they will go through this pain and destruction again and again and again.

This was never about you not being good enough to fight for, and ALL about their self-loathing and inability to feel worthy of a gift such as yourself.
They had an opportunity for greatness with you. They simply couldn't find it in themselves to address the issues that cause them to destroy the goodness in their lives.
It's unfortunate that WE wind up as collateral damage when their lives blow up... but we’ve gained SO much as a result of all this. I didn't ask for any of this, but I can't completely resent the part I've played in this drama.
I chose to use the pain of his betrayal as the motivator to dig deep within myself and find my weaknesses, mistaken beliefs, and deficiencies... As I fix them, I plug up the holes in my own soul, and I'm filled to overflowing.
I'm rich - not in the material realm, but within myself.

Show yourself the love, honor, and respect you deserve by detaching from them and getting as far away from the blast zone as possible.
They don’t WANT to be saved...they don't even believe they’re worthy of that.

When we get to grieving over how they didn't fight for us... that we couldn't get them to see how valuable our love was... how valuable we are... that even though we used every bit of our considerable heart, strength, and intelligence to "save them", we failed...
well, that's our ego screaming for external validation.
That's the "little me" keeping the focus on my failure and perceived deficiencies, and my victim-hood (oh, boo-hoo... poor me... look how small and crushed and worthless I am!).
I'm allowing myself to be distracted from moving forward into the unknown, from fully expressing my power, and for taking responsibility for creating MY life.
It's at that point I realize I'm doing EXACTLY the same thing they are doing.


[This message edited by nomoreplease at 1:30 PM, June 6th (Friday)]


Divorced...and moving on!

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jul 2011
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but what would REMORSE look like


Think empathy. Not sympathy.

^^^^This!

There is nothing selfish in remorse.

Anytime you hear "Because you....." is not remorse.
This is selfish justifications.

Remorse is the removal of all those revenge factors that served as justification. The perceived wrongs done unto them.

Remorse is feeling only the pain inflicted upon others, and taking that pain as their own. Not simply feeling sorry, but an actual attempt to transfer your pain.

You can hear it in their voice, you can see it their eyes. Its when you hear and see a reflection of your own brokeness in them as well.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 10:26 AM, June 6th (Friday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 531 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not worth fighting for.

Nah, I think most people would agree that a faithful and loving spouse is something worth fighting for. I mean, how do you view faithful spouses v. cheating spouses? The question is whether she is worth fighting for, and that remains to be seen.

Or maybe she feels she doesn't deserve you?

Our MC suggested this early in our sessions. If you saw the loser my WW took up with, you'd get a good idea about her self-esteem. We see that all the time on this site. Some guys focus on looks (which is totally subjective anyway), but a man willing to have a sneaky, dishonest relationship with another man's wife can't hold a candle to a faithful husband.

It's easier said than done, but guys in our situation have to try really hard not to let our wife's cheating be a reflection on us.

We're ok. They're not - at least not until they do the work to get healthy.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DR,
Remorse is the removal of all those revenge factors that served as justification. The perceived wrongs done unto them.

Remorse is feeling only the pain inflicted upon others, and taking that pain as their own. Not simply feeling sorry, but an actual attempt to transfer your pain.

You can hear it in their voice, you can see it their eyes. Its when you hear and see a reflection of your own brokenness in them as well.

This was actually beautifully written, like poetry even.

SAL195,
I agree but according to my WW, due to my porn addiction, which at this point is tired and played out, considers it the same thing. I never hooked up with another man's wife or would even want to. If I was single and found out she was married I would make her confess and apologize profusely and say from here on out I am staying out of your business. You would never see me again.

But like I said earlier. I wish I had said, well, you said you forgave me and according to our bible that is living like the offense never occur but I made sure to protect us from it and so that means you committed adultery for no reason other than own selfish means.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree but according to my WW, due to my porn addiction, which at this point is tired and played out, considers it the same thing.

Consider the source. She thinks your porn addiction entitles her to be another man's private porn star. Make sense?

Sorry she is making bullshit excuses, LS. If you are truly a porn "addict", then that's your problem to own and resolve. But your fantasy behavior has absolutely nothing to do with her disgusting real-life behavior.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't get this pornography = physical affair thing.

I mean when my ww told me about a lucid dream she had involving Mark Walhberg after watching Boogie Nights, I never once thought to myself "That bitch cheated on me"
Granted that dreams are a subconscious process while the watching of porn is a conscious process. But still its all just fantasy. Granted there is some gray area there if you let fantasy start impacting real world stuff. I'm sure damage can be done when it gets out of control. But still seems more like a religious construct of guilt and shame.
Now the physical act of actually swapping bodily fluids with someone is not in the same ball park and really not even the same fucking game.
Your risking disease of yourself and your faithful partner, pregnancy, and some cases life if caught in the act.

The comparison just doesn't hold water in my mind. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise, but I don't see it. For me she's just trying to justify another excuse for her poor behavior.

It's like that time I got in trouble for not buying her flowers after she took me to the bunny ranch for my birthday. Oh wait that never happened either, must have been a dream, or maybe something on late night skinamax. Who knows; it's not fucking real.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:20 AM, June 6th (Friday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 531 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DR ( ),
I understand what your saying, however, I told her I would stop, and it took a long time for me to get a hold on it but at the same time, it is just another excuse.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've got to not let yourself get tied up in knots about the stupid shit that falls out of a WW's mouth, man.

Srsly, why would you trust the impressions of a person who's going to take YEARS of therapy to get to healthy and normal? That is not a person who is qualified to tell you what's wrong with your or where you might be falling short in the game of life (or masculinity).

Internalizing comments on your own self-development, achievement or relationship success from your WW is like taking investment advice from a guy living in a trailer down by the river who failed business school.

She's only in your head because you convinced yourself at one time that her opinion *should* matter (and that was appropriate at the time). Now she's shown you that she's a raving loon howling on a street corner whose concept of meeting life's challenges is to shove poultry and poultry by-products into her vagina.

Unplug from the crazy and you'll start to see more clearly.

Remember: everyone trying to get out of a relationship or justify bad behavior within a relationship has an agenda. Their job is to convince themselves that they deserve whatever they're doing.

Don't let her convince you that her lies are true. Believe only your own lies. You'll be happier.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6743 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
outside4me
♂ Member
Member # 42430
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nicely put, WAL.

Posts: 218 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Colorado
Twotimesucker
♂ New Member
Member # 43013
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
I'm TTS, and well shit, Ive been here two months and just found this thread today! Do y'all mind if I hang around and chime in a bit? Or are all the seats taken?

I just read over the last few pages, and All I can say is I wish I found you guys sooner!


Me BS-45
Her WW-36
D-Day3/31/14
Working towards R

Posts: 31 | Registered: Apr 2014
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome TTS. I'm relatively new to posting here as well. Care for a glass of scotch?

Losfer, I poured you one too. Just saw your post on last page.

So what are your troubles TTS?

yop

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 2:09 PM, June 6th (Friday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1925 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do y'all mind if I hang around and chime in a bit? Or are all the seats taken?

Hell no, TTS, we don't mind at all. We've been waiting for you. Welcome, brother.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome TTS...just have to say I'm sorry you found us but glad you did if that makes any sense. Noobs bring the beer. I'm going mass produced domestic tonight but won't mention the brewery in honor of JJ. But it rhymes with Lud Bight


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3856 | Registered: Dec 2011
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL,
Believe only your own lies. You'll be happier.

You're not keeping score when we golf! Oh who the hell am I kidding, can't count that high myself!

LS,
For years, she has been playing you like a fiddle. She has installed so many *guilt* buttons that you probably can't even sit to her satisfaction without feeling guilty. I have a question. When is the last time she *owned up* to having made a mistake? About anything? I mean without a *but* or* because*, no prompting?

Brother, she's bad juju. All of her moxy comes from stealing your mojo. Don't feed the pig.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2696 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But it rhymes with Lud Bight

Hmmm...any other clues?


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
PMs with men only, please
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTS, my apologies. Welcome brother


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2696 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome TTS. Welcome to the club within a club no one ever wanted to join.

Going to have to take a night off. Had a Bday celebration mid week and drank light beer like I was 22 again. I think I remember someone saying " I like 100% blue agave " Famous last words.

I guess I'll be the forum sober driver.

We all can't have super Tred-like powers.

LS you've been given good advice. You only win that game by refusing to play.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello and welcome, TTS! Pull up a seat. We have a whole stadium full of them, if need be. Always room for more!

Thanks, yop! That looks like a mighty fine dram of the good peaty stuff. Always good to see you here.

Hope you are feeling better, Numb.

Today's brew for me is "HOSS" Rye Lager. Not bad, not bad.

Cheers, and Happy Friday, gents!


Posts: 6663 | Registered: Dec 2010
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