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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GP, her reply was kind of non-committal, at best.

I noticed D has been filed. Is there a possible R in the works?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1323 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is it true that they need to show Remorse right away.

Externally, my W showed remorseful behavior immediately. Both our MC and I agreed on that.

Internally, she says she was stuck in shame and guilt for a long time. She said it took 5 months for her to accept that what she had was just another A, no less sordid than any other A. (I guess up to then she thought she was working nobly to save ow from killing herself.)

So I don't know if she was remorseful immediately. I think she was, and I usually write on SI that she was, but my principle that a person knows him/herself better than anyone else does says I ought to accept her view of herself - and she thinks she only began to find remorse 5 months out.

Her actions, however, have looked consistently remorseful and committed to R from D-Day on, so....
*****************************************

GotPlayed, when our 3 year old GS gave us his awful stomach bug, my W & I just thought of him as very generous.... I guess that's a big difference between parent and grandparents.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:44 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9742 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted somewhere else that casinos thrive on the "investment" type of thinking. If I just play this machine 10 more minutes, I'm sure I'll hit the jackpot as I've been playing and losing for the past three hours. That's focusing on past investment.

I call that the "due" theory. Number 7 is due to come up because it hasn't hit in a while, the Jets are bound to win because they have 4 straight losses...bullshit. Probability is a tad more complicated than that. Combinatorics especially. And our wives are harder to understand than deriving the central limit theorem. In other words, don't try to figure them out. Figure you out - it is so much easier.

ETA: Sisoon - how's your back?

[This message edited by Tred at 6:35 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3741 | Registered: Dec 2011
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If we are going to rely on probabilities we should rely on the statistic that many women cheat - it really has nothing to do with our own masculinity or awesomeness. Took awhile to feel this way but I do. What I do or don't do with my package has nothing to do with my manhood. Who I do with my package does. Besides an O is achieved mostly between ones ears. What my partner thinks of me impacts her O way more than anything my package can.

As for investing I think how much has been put in is always irrelevant to the decision of how much more to put in. It's the expected return on the additional investment that matters. This holds true when investing cash, time or emotion.


Your beliefs donít make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1108 | Registered: Jul 2011
HeartFullOfHoles
♂ Member
Member # 42874
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Knowing when to say enough is enough is certainly a helpful skill and I like others here am struggling with this one. It is hard to balance is she going to change or change enough to make it palatable to stay or is it time to move on. Lately it seems like moving on is going to be the better choice and I am starting to come to peace with what that entails.

To me regret is what our WWs internally feel when they recognize that their affair was wrong.

Remorse is how they show us they regret their affair and it is much more than just saying "I regret having an affair."

I see regret. I do not feel much remorse and what little I do see is often tainted with subtle blame shifting.


BH - Divorcing
D-Day 4/28-29/2012
Two daughters in HS

Posts: 123 | Registered: Mar 2014
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I made my wife orgasm at least three times the other day

Gauddammit Sal, first your making love, now your giving enough of a shit to give her not one but three orgasms. Your killing me here. In all honestly couldn't give monkey's ass right now if she gets off. Needless to say my mental state regarding sex with her right now is nowhere near healthy.
I give you shit, but really, happy for you brother. And a little jealous that I don't have that right now.

This is where the model of "What relationship?" "You killed it!" Might better serve you. In truth, she smashed the dishes. You're kneeling on the floor, bloodying your knees, trying to piece old, broken shit together.

Maybe standing up, saying "FTN! Buy me some new dishes bitch, or GTFO!" would be a better plan. (At least your knees will thank you)...

Once again jj, pure poetry and pure truth!

"unremorseful doesn't describe me". It was a strange way to turn a phrase, don't you think? Why the negative?

GP, so she thinks she is remorseful in some way. I'm guessing your not seeing remorseful from her if your questioning her response. Could be a number of things.

Maybe shes needs a dictionary to figure out the difference between remorse and regret. Its easy to regret, its shallow in that regret only involves the fallout as it affects only yourself. Remorse on the other hand is the journey of feeling the heartache and consequences that befall everyone around you because of your shitty decision making processes. There is collateral damage and until you Grok that, remorse is unattainable.

Maybe she feels shes remorseful for one or a few things she destroyed but not all of it. What aspect of it all is she really remorseful of? Your pain? Breaking up her family? Simply getting caught?

Or maybe she doesn't even think there is anything that she needs to be remorseful about. Surely her shit doesn't stink right. It's amazing how much during an A gets pinned on us because they're perfect and deserve better.

Or maybe shes too ashamed to come out and say what shes remorseful of. I know in my case the ww has a hard time coming straight out and apologizing for specific things that happened. General apologies that encompass everything, she's okay with, just a blanket I'm sorry. She's admitted that when she acknowledges specific things they become more real. After all its all about self-protection for them. That in it own right feels unremorseful to me, but that's kind-of splitting hairs, at least she's self-analyzing and admitting she hurts.

Maybe you just need to ask for clarification. Otherwise things will spin in your head till you don't know which way is up.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 8:02 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 500 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, that's what her complaint about me being great at boundaries lays. I don't know if she's been remorseful really. She hasn't stopped the D (she asked me how that was going the other day, if I'd heard from any of the lawyers, as if I had filed - weird). But I haven't been privy and in fact have avoided contact. This time I mentioned in fact is the first time I talked with her on the phone since February.

That's why I'm confused. I don't want to be her "Plan B". I'm waiting until she gets a job and has to start taking care of the kids plus having a job, as well as going to therapy which I believe she is. That will naturally make it harder for her to see OM (if she still is) and maybe with that and therapy the fog will clear. That's my hope.

So I'm taking my time with the D in the meantime. Does that make sense?

In the meantime, as others have said, the damage is not on me. Not seeing anyone nor I want to right now. So instead I am concentrating on my work and writing a book I had started a long time ago and decided to continue in my no-kids time. That should leave me a recluse for a little while, and out of trouble.

It also makes it so that it's less of an impact to feel like I'm falling into a sunk cost fallacy. I'm simply too busy to look for someone else at this time. Not that I would, but if I get a lot of bucket-list stuff accomplished this year I won't feel it as a lost year.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 567 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
blindsided14
♂ Member
Member # 43266
Question  Posted: 11:55 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need to try and recover deleted text messages from 6-8 months ago. Off an iPhone. Anyone know how to do that?

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the randomness of the question.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Apr 2014
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blindsided - at 51 legitimate posts, you'll have access to the investigative forums, keep talking bro.

So we got
WellPlayed
william
wal

3 menz writing books.
Did I mention I got first dibs on a signed, first edition?
::drums fingers::

WellPlayed - taking time is just fine. Make sure, please just make damn sure - to fill your time with self care. Time spent thataway is never wasted.


Posts: 6423 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am tired of asking this and I am sure people are tired of answering this, but what would REMORSE look like. There has to be a general identifier that is easily to tell if they are.

I haven't in my opinion seen true REMORSE and my IC/MC said that when she says she is sorry, she says I know how you feel because YOU did porn...


I thought about this really hard and I wish I said the following: You said you forgave me, but you throw this in my face every time we talk about what you done...

I am doing a 180...well more like a 90...working on getting the other 90 in there. It's hard to break communication to a certain degree.

Blindsided14 - to recover old texts, and it may or may not work. You need to have a backup of the iphone going that far back on a computer. hook up your iphone to that computer and restore that backup to your iphone. Also you can use an application called WonderShare. If you use Torrents, you can get the full version for free.

Good luck.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
blindsided14
♂ Member
Member # 43266
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LostSamurai. She never backed it up to a CPU so i'm hoping I can pull it off the internal memory.

Re: your sitch, I had a disagreement with my WW along similar lines. I said, even if you have unresolved anger over shit from the past, realize this: those are metaphorically a broken arm; right now the patient (our M) is bleeding out. Do you want us to be dead with a pretty cast on our arm for the open casket or can we sow up the torn artery and then deal with the arm.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Apr 2014
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Gents,

Figured I would pop back in for a spell and offer some more whisky if anyone would like some. Sure, I'll buy again. Been reading up and sounds like many have had a busy week again.

Anyone care for a glass of Bruichladdich Peat? Certainly will jump start the heart and warm the belly for a Fri.

I don't know if I'm ambitious enough to write a book, but I have had a few here certainly suggest it. Hats of to that list who are actually doing it.

@LS

I am tired of asking this and I am sure people are tired of answering this, but what would REMORSE look like.

Think empathy. Not sympathy. Your WW needs the ability to see your pain and realize the damage she has done. I don't think she has that ability. Once it's noticed, they start to follow through with actions. OMG, what have I done?!...they come to you and ask what you need. They start to do things proactively to help fix the damage they have cause. They are often times in pain themselves at seeing the damage they have caused. Your WW displays none of this as far as I can tell. She's very me me me me me when it should be you you you you you. Does that help?

eta - fixed the image

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 8:10 AM, June 6th (Friday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1821 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After being hit with the car, you are faced with a broken and battered body (the heart). The Person is sitting in the hospital bed on critical condition (the marriage as a whole.)

The driver of the car, is a raging alcoholic who has yet to sober up (WW) and is focusing on them self. They have a million excuses for why they got behind a vehicle (affair) while being intoxicated (Whatever crap justifications, or FOO).

They know the victim, but they are blaming the alcohol for running the poor SOB over. Either let the person die and work on them self only, or help the injured person so that person can give them forgiveness and help them to help them self...hmmm. Doesn't see that hard of a choice, but the problem is, people don't want to suffer the consequences of their choices.

Adultery is almost treated like a free get out of jail card. Do the crime and not the time.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Adultery is almost treated like a free get out of jail card. Do the crime and not the time.

Nah...read the Wayward forum. There are plenty of WS's who do the time. I know it seems unfair to us as collateral damage, but there really are quite a few who are devastated by their own actions. I don't read too many posts here where the wayward says they would do it all over again if they could.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3741 | Registered: Dec 2011
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't read too many posts here where the wayward says they would do it all over again if they could.

Exactly. This is also a part of the remorse piece. In my sitch, she did say she would do it all over again and there was nothing wrong with what she didn't since it wasn't her fault. (that's the NPD talking).


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1821 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@LS

I am tired of asking this and I am sure people are tired of answering this, but what would REMORSE look like.
Think empathy. Not sympathy. Your WW needs the ability to see your pain and realize the damage she has done. I don't think she has that ability. Once it's noticed, they start to follow through with actions. OMG, what have I done?!...they come to you and ask what you need. They start to do things proactively to help fix the damage they have cause. They are often times in pain themselves at seeing the damage they have caused. Your WW displays none of this as far as I can tell. She's very me me me me me when it should be you you you you you. Does that help?

Thanks. That's what I thought YOP. And that's the problem for her. I kind of blew my load prematurely and told her I am going to a lawyer...

Nah...read the Wayward forum. There are plenty of WS's who do the time. I know it seems unfair to us as collateral damage, but there really are quite a few who are devastated by their own actions. I don't read too many posts here where the wayward says they would do it all over again if they could.

Tred,
I understand that but in the beginning it feels that way. To me it did. It was like my WW got a slap on the wrist or a 20 dollar parking fine and told to pay and don't do it again and she isn't doing anything.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get you LS. I felt that way too at first. When I was shaking, convulsing, crying, harming myself, screaming at the top of my lungs until I was hoarse the next day all the while my wife was sleeping in bed as if nothing had happened. And for some of them they do get away with it with no punishment; they ride off into the sunset and marry the AP, abandoning all they left behind. Nothing you can do about it and I say good riddance. Life just isn't fair. I do respect all the WS's that understand the trauma they have caused. It gives me a little more faith in humanity. Still sucks to be us. At least it's Saturday eve and hopefully I'll get 9 in tonight. That's golf.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3741 | Registered: Dec 2011
BAMAC
♂ Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GP, I think phrasing like that is an attempt to avoid facing painful realizations about one's self. When my STBX confessed to me on DDay1, she phrased it, 'I haven't been faithful'. It takes a lot less introspection and self realization to say what you're not than what you are.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone care for a glass of Bruichladdich Peat?

Duuuude. You know it! Cheers, YOP!


Posts: 6165 | Registered: Dec 2010
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, June 6th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted somewhere else that casinos thrive on the "investment" type of thinking.

It is called the law of independent variables. Past results do not impact future ones.

Obviously not exactly transferable to infidelity where the past results DO matter. Just showing that I am not just a meat head jock, I did learn stuff in college, not just play football : ) Oh my grey matter has not been replaced with hops and malted barley.

Remorse has many definitions. I guess for my W I knew once I started to see her feel the pain without me reminding her of it. She tried to right the wrong despite any emotional cost to her. She went from selfish to selfless.

She wrote me letter once and said:

"Many great men you aspire to emulate would have lost the emotional battles you have already won. Despite vanquishing those herculean challenges, you still feel like you have lost and scampered back to me with your tail between your legs. The fact is you never scampered, I did. I ran away from you. I saw a miraculous example of masculinity and was afraid one day you would realize you are more of a man than I deserve."

She takes responsibility and acknowledges that it is hard on me. She said other stuff in the letter, but don't want to do a mega post. In that same letter she acknowledge that if I need to D her she understood. That is about the time I would say I saw remorse. About the same time the anger hit and I began expressing it often. She just listened and did not get defensive. I have to give credit where it is due. No one would have put up with that like she did without a whole lot of remorse.

GP- It is so cool that you are writing a book. Finding things that make you happy and occupy your time are so key to healing and establishing you outside of the M. Doing things you've always wanted but was being put on hold due to M is great healing plan. If you are happy, who cares what your STBXW thinks. I think you know this already, but saying she is not unremorseful is proof that she is. (and what is up with the double negative ?) Next time she says you should ask her who she is trying to convince, you or herself ?

jjct- If you are feeling left out, maybe you could do a "Sweet Thangs" calendar ? I would buy one, just sayin'


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


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