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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
Nitrobob
♂ Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred, my wife found two of her men on Ashley Madison.

Just like with you.

So I research it, and has imposters/bots to drain men of money. It's a scam.

But not for the women I guess. It's free for them. And some men score, obviously. A hundred to one, but those men scored our wives.

You should see the pix my wife posted.

[This message edited by Nitrobob at 8:58 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell ó 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 113 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can guaranteeee
Tred don't wanna see those, dam bob!
I'm so dam sorry!
Then I see sunset's bitch pics - and I know right away, 'least someone's got a hardon.
Life is good bitches.

WellPlayed, you humble me sir with your praise. How did I get so wise?
I'm not, it appears. Took God's own celestial 2X4's to get my attention, For any that I am or appear to be, short answer is
I stand upon the shoulders of GIANTS,
who in turn,
sit like little children on the shoulders
of the giant-maker.
I would tell you about two visions, in the old men dream dreams kinda way, but the short thing is the synergy.

If you don't know, or call up in your mind the meaning of synergy, it defines SI. Quintessentially.
It is that
the whole
is greater
than the sum of its parts.

There's another part of the definition too, that most people miss, that is that the whole can not be predicted either (by the sum of its parts).

The genius is (remember, I'm only standing on the shoulders of giants) - well, to me it became rhyme,
a thing that sings inside me.
That's how this tuning fork goes...


Posts: 6423 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
WearingTheHorns
♂ Member
Member # 37916
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love her more than she loves me.

I used to think that, but realized for me that's not true. I still love her more than any woman I've loved before, but it's significantly less than pre-dday.

Sunsets, keep it up and we'll have to remove you for mental cruelty


Dday: over a period of three days 11/14-16/2012.
EA/PA: ~ 2 1/2 years
EA/beginning PA: ~ 10 months

"What God has joined together, let man... no man put asunder" -Pastor at our wedding concluding the ceremony


Posts: 248 | Registered: Dec 2012
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh look. A cottonwood tree.

Damn. Not nearly the same effect.


Posts: 6235 | Registered: Dec 2010
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What really are our proven deal breakers (rather than our theoretical ones)?

So, what's your payoff? Because you've got one, otherwise you wouldn't stay. There's something more valuable -- or less fearful -- in your life as currently constituted that mitigates having a cheating wife. Maybe you believe that redemption trumps sin, or God doesn't really support divorce, or as someone else said, you get to keep a nice income and retirement. The valuation of that thing, principle, constant makes your wife fucking other men palatable. What do you tell yourself in the dark?

With the clarification ďwife used to fuck other menĒ I really like the fences analogy. Itís helping me wrap my tiny brain around some shit thatís not really been worked through and has been irritating the fuck out of my progress. I am certain that infidelity was a deal breaker (I know Iím in R) and in the process what broke was my deal. Looking back at what Iíve written the last few years it looks full of drama and just plain whining but I know that when the crap came out I disconnected. The veil that I wore (how I saw myself and the world and how I thought the world saw me) was on the floor and I could not get a grasp on it. Call it what you want - I know it was a mental problem Ė I am just going to call it lost.

By working through it all the first time and compromising myself I broke myself. In the process I lived a pretty good life and started a family and eventually compartmentalized it all but not very well, finding out later that the foundation of the M was shit which further broke me down. I am fairly certain Iíve gone down as far as I was going and feel pretty good to be climbing back up. Itís taken a complete rebuild, reexamining what I believe, how I see the world. I did not really have it in these terms but I am working on what the currency is that makes me stay. There was a time in my life that religion played a part in that decision but I no longer believe that. I know what currency made it worth it to try and R and that is many of the things others here list (kids, financial security, itís easier, sexÖ). But thatís only enough to make it worth trying to work it out for me. I guess Iíve spent a great deal of time working on getting myself stable and now itís time to think about more. Iíve talked about more but the reality is I had to circle back to getting me stable to make much progress. I think Iím fortunate that I have a W that will be a good candidate to work this out with once Iíve got a handle on it.

So much of this journey is fraught with contradiction. So it was a deal breaker but I stay in the M. The cost was a journey through some hostile territory with no armor. Iím feeling fortunate to have come out the other side functioning (for the most part). Iím fairly certain I want the payoff to be more valuable to me Ė fuck the less fearful shit Iím done letting fear be the guide unless we are talking life and limb. I know stay because I think I can build a good M with my W, that I can live out my life in the pursuit of happiness. That was hard to see without my old world view. Itís truly scary without it. I know the old illusion was dangerous but man it was easy until it all came crashing down. This is all a bit rambling but thatís probably about right Ė Iím just starting to ramble down that path. Figuring out the new path just might be fun.

As for the ďcapitalist natureĒ, I could not agree more with you Razor. Itís a matter of putting a price on how we want to live our lives. Sometimes the price is higher than we think we can afford, but if we are paying it we must think itís worth it.



Oh look. A cottonwood tree.



Your beliefs donít make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1109 | Registered: Jul 2011
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTH and the rest of you Gentlemen, I don't mean to be cruel. I have one vice, aside from drinking and smoking and the occasional card game. It's floating in the Gulf. It's pure peace. The rays flutter by, the tourists scream. Dolphins pop up right next to me. The world class sunsets are few and far between but when I'm lucky enough to see one I can't describe it. Th bell rings. Drunk on peace without a drop of spirits.

I know how lucky I am and I thank God every minute. I've found True Peace. Shit Sandwich, finances, job stress, family issues and illnesses. Out there it doesn't mean shit. At least for a while.

I'm willing to share. Come on down.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 691 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(Aside: By the way, it's safe to say that for all of us reconciling, infidelity is not a deal breaker. After all, we stayed. Call it whatever else you want, but the truth is that you can cheat on me and I won't leave you. How you choose to rectify that with your self-image in the darkest corner of your soul is up to you, but you might as well get used to it, because it's an objective truth. We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men.

with Sal's qualifier
I would make slight alterations and say that we're men who are staying in a relationship with women who fucked another man at one point in our marriage

This is my fifth different rollercoaster. I got off the ride the first four times without hesitation.(Qualifier, I would have tried R with #3-the XW, but it would have been an unmitigated disaster. BPD ya know). Hopped off without a regret. The A was an instant dealbreaker. This time around, R. A self imposed fence? Nah, at least for me, I'm exploring uncharted territory.

I've done the D. Bitter contested custody battle spanning a year and a half. All my savings, retirement and a 50k hole in my wallet. Leaving, at least for me, holds no fear. BTDT. The biggest difference this time is SI. I know from bitter experience that there are no guarantee's. That if I were to terminate this relationship and at some point enter another, it wouldn't happen again.

SI, specifically the waywards here showed me the way.(the remorseful ones anyway). Work, hard work on the why's and how's helped armor them against a recurrence. Remorse is much different than regret, and true remorse is something to behold and savor.

Her A was a dealbreaker. I mean that there will never come a time again where I am back *in the rut* of the old M. She is changing. Showing me daily that I mean something to her. I don't mean in the old co-dependent ways, but me as an individual. It's no longer *I can't live without you*, but rather *I want to live with you*. A partnership rather than a symbiotic relationship.

So, yea, the old deal was broken. I'm growing to love the new deal. Scares the shit out of me for the most part, but I'm gradually re-entering the pool. I'm about at the point of going all in.

Sunsets, jealous.

Given the weather tonight, my distraction?

Ooh, look a tornado!

Rant over with the exception of....

Gentlemen, I salute each and every one of you. Thank you!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2551 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
SWAT70
♂ Member
Member # 42915
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Evening gentleman. It's been an eventful couple of days. The most recent TT was pretty painful and on top of that I've attended my third LEO funeral since April. Not to be a downer but this shit sucks. I changed my "your dead packet" affectionately known as emergency contact form yesterday. If was surreal to have to change everything in it. I mean it is like pre-planning your funeral and to have to take WW out of the equation was strange.

My lawyer put together a proposition to settle things with WW in the divorce. I don't want anything from her, she just got a very large inheritance and she should be set for a very long time. She has worked since she got preganant with our daughter and if she is smart, she won't have to.

It's weird..I still love her but the sense of peace I have moving forward is odd. It is hard to describe it. Sorry for being a downer today. Maybe by Friday I'll be a little more up beat and the first round is on me.


Me BH-45. WW-39
DD-11 DS-6 DS-3
D day was Valentines day 2014. Talk about a trigger.

Divorce was filed, but I'm willing to give her one more chance. I'm watching.


Posts: 308 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Down range
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

please hang around SWAT. You're the kind of guy we want around. You've had a rough month. It WILL get better.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 514 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with Mike. Stick around brother. Every once in a while the Menz thread needs someone familiar with the law just to get us *home* safely!

Seriously, stick around.

Strength

BTW, 3 LODD's? Wow, sorry brother.

[This message edited by 5454real at 11:50 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2551 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT, man... I can understand how you would be feeling down, with everything you've been through, and everything that you are going through. I think you have been handling everything tremendously well, considering.

I am glad to hear that you are having some moments of peace in there, too.

Cheers, and take care.


Posts: 6235 | Registered: Dec 2010
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT70,
Your doing better than I am. I really just didn't know how to cope with everything and still don't.

Part of me wanted revenge and go on a killing rampage and now part of me just wants to be alone and cry. I am going to try and do better so I can be there for my daughter.

After yesterday's MC, I can honestly say that my WW doesn't care or love me. 7 months pass dday and she doesn't even know what she want's. She says there are some red flags about my behavior and all. Imagine that, I have red flags because I am hurt, but I no longer care. I am just trying to focus on my daughter and myself.

I hope everything turns out good for you.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nitro,
So I research it, and has imposters/bots to drain men of money. It's a scam.

But not for the women I guess. It's free for them. And some men score, obviously.


That's what I always thought too. My wife was pointed to AM by one of her best friends who told her guys would swarm all over her if she signed up. There may be bots and hookers on the site, but there are a lot of wives. And I don't have to see any pics, I saw most of what was in my wife's account. All the men sending pics of their junk, the chats, the e-mails, and that was just the stuff on the AM account. The serious ones (at least 6 that I know of) were given her "special secret spicy" e-mail. She deleted that before I found it. There are hundreds of men in my area that now know my wife through AM, and I hate that I don't have a clue who any of them are except the one that she had an LTA with. Any time I feel someone looking at me when I'm out my mind instantly goes there - did my wife chat with this person? Meet them? Send them pics? I'll never know. It's a killer.

Sunsets, love the ocean too mate. I get down to Florida every now and then - my sister lives outside of JAX and I have some land down in Ocala. Next time I'm coming that way I might have to see what the boat plans are. But you are going to need a lot more beer than that!


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3747 | Registered: Dec 2011
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By the way, it's safe to say that for all of us reconciling, infidelity is not a deal breaker. After all, we stayed. Call it whatever else you want, but the truth is that you can cheat on me and I won't leave you. How you choose to rectify that with your self-image in the darkest corner of your soul is up to you, but you might as well get used to it, because it's an objective truth. We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men.

So, what's your payoff? Because you've got one, otherwise you wouldn't stay. There's something more valuable -- or less fearful -- in your life as currently constituted that mitigates having a cheating wife. Maybe you believe that redemption trumps sin, or God doesn't really support divorce, or as someone else said, you get to keep a nice income and retirement. The valuation of that thing, principle, constant makes your wife fucking other men palatable. What do you tell yourself in the dark?

Well said WAL... as always.

So... for me, the A was a deal-breaker. I know that now. Took three years of therapy but there it is. But I'm still with her, and THAT is the real kicker, because in order to keep my "payoff" (kids, finances, stability), I have to go against my instinct. THAT is what makes this shit-sandwich taste especially bad. I told her more than once: don't ever cheat on me. And she did anyway. And I stayed. Sigh.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that. I know the deal if I leave... I get to give her half of everything we (I) own plus write her checks for about half my income every month plus hope and pray that someday I actually find someone who I'm compatible with and who isn't fucked up in some way (good luck with that...). And so for now I stay.

What I struggle with, though... what I really struggle with, is the loss of connection. It's an ethereal thing and hard to describe, but there's this bond that I had with her that broke. Perhaps it is the loss of that innocent love, that special "us against the world" feeling. Whatever it is, it's been lost and I don't know if you can ever get it back. I've been dealing with this shit for 5 years now. Spent the first few years in the "if you pretend it didn't happen then it didn't happen" mode and the next few in the "fake it 'till ya make it" mode... and now I've just reached the "*shrugs shoulders*" stage. Like I don't even know anymore.

So here I am, being the good dad and the dutiful husband, staying with a FWW because it provides me with stability, the ability to see my kids daily, and it doesn't bleed my bank account dry. And in the meantime I set my own wants and needs aside and bite the bullet.

God I must be fucked in the head.


Me: BH, 36
Her: WW, 37
Two girls 8 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - not to pry, but why didn't you get their names from your wife? If she knows them and won't give them to you, how can you tolerate that?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 514 | Registered: Mar 2013
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred,
Nothing is wrong with you. You are just doing what any other man would do when faced with this situation. MANNING UP.

I thought this was a deal break as well. You are doing what you can, and how you can to better keep things going.

The pain will always feel fresh, because it seems like she had no consequences in your mind. She gets to still have the kids, the money and her husband and you get to know you were betrayed. However, if she is willing to do whatever it takes to make you feel loved and happy and safe with her, then you are on a better path than most.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike,

I didn't realize the extent of it at first. She lied and TT'd and was able to delete a lot of evidence. When she wrote her timeline a couple of months after DDay she just numbered them...AM1, AM2, AM3, AM4, AM5 - you get the picture. By the time I got out of shock she only recalled their first names. One of them was my name - which is why she probably hid them. I did know all about the primary AP, the one who she played call girl for (he'd call, she'd go have sex with him). In hindsight, there is a shit ton of stuff I'd love to go back and do over. Like track down every fucker she was talking to and expose them to their wives. I did send a mass e-mail to all the e-mail accounts I could find letting them all know to look over there shoulders, but I did it from a fake account and deleted the account. Not sure what effect it had, but hopefully it shook some of them up. I included all the contact details in that e-mail I could find. I couldn't track their phone numbers down without a warrant - we have unlimited calling and the bill is never itemized. Very convenient because my wife could call tons of men all day and I'd never know. I was stupid.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3747 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, a lot of really great insights over the last two pages, guys.

I agree with what WAL (and Sal's qualifier) stated: one of the hardest parts of reconciling in marriage is the reconciling you have to do with yourself and acknowledging that despite your wife's shitty treatment of you (once, or twice, or for how-many-years or who-knows-because-TT) you have chosen to stay with someone who stabbed you in the back.

It kind of makes your brain explode, because you recognize that infidelity is intolerable treatment of another that deserves negative consequences, and yet....here we are. I mean, sure, there are some consequences in the abstract sense, because this whole moral dynamic flips around on the WW if they are remorseful and have a conscience and are generally unentitled...because they get to spend the rest of their life knowing on some basic level that they are probably not 'good enough' for the person they're married to.

**What I mean is this: My guess would be that no matter how much therapy, book-reading, etc., takes place for a WW, there is always going to be a tiny voice in the back of their head that says "You know he married down, right? That is a man with options, and you're probably not good enough for him, but he's here anyway."**

I think a big part of this process for us stay-ers is to recognize the complexity that goes in to potentially life-altering decisions like divorce, and to constantly evaluate and re-evaluate what 'happy' is to you. Maybe one guy can be happy staying with a woman he hates so long as he's financially stable and able to maintain a certain lifestyle. That's his tradeoff to make, just like some guys decide that no amount of money and/or financial lifestyle is worth facing the person who hurt them every day for the rest of their life.

I know that I, for one, am much less likely to tell people what sort of behaviors merit divorce or whatever than I was before the affair. I mean, if someone asks me, I'll tell them if I think they should tolerate behavior 'x' in a given situation, but if they continue to accept it, I'll just assume that they are getting some deep psychological need filled on some level by being with that person/accepting that behavior....though it's probably not healthy for them in the strictest sense.

We sell ourselves on whatever we have to get from day to day, honestly.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
idontknowwhy5
♂ Member
Member # 42648
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can guaranteeee†
Tred don't wanna see those, dam bob!†


I made the mistake of seeing things I can't un-see. My advice would be don't do it, no matter which way you go R or D. It will only make the former harder, and provide mind movies way into the latter.


DDays- too many

Status - In D.


Posts: 73 | Registered: Mar 2014
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I feel self hatred for staying. And the worst is that look family and friends give you, the feel sorry for you look. How are you doing? They mean well, but they are all thinking what a schmuck you are to stay.

I really really really really get that. Something we all have to live with daily. It's a large part of the cost we pay when we choose to R. In a large sense our greatest battle is with our inner voice.

What I mean is this: My guess would be that no matter how much therapy, book-reading, etc., takes place for a WW, there is always going to be a tiny voice in the back of their head that says "You know he married down, right? That is a man with options, and you're probably not good enough for him, but he's here anyway."

I think theres probably allot of noise in our WW heads after Dday and that noise probably continues if R happens.

I think among those voices is this. When we argue or WW gets mad at me for something. Theres a voice in there that gloats *well I got a few good licks in on him* I think my WW can always fall back to this and feel she is in the superior position.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


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