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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice, throw in some blue water and white sand and you have a Corona commercial.


I'm living a damn Corona commercial these days. I highly recommend it. I earned a little extended vacation. We all have.

BAMAC, You'll get through it. Hang in there. When I left the house in November for the last time STBX showed up. She was so damn eager to start nesting again. Hardest part of the whole process.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

why do we hang on bros? as you may be aware, I've been separated from my WW by deployment for several months now. we met in Barcelona a while back and had a nice time. however, I have to tell you, it's not bad being single.

I've enjoyed the peace, the solitude and new friends. I have no desire at all to get involved with a woman. I expect to R, providing of course that she remains remorseful, but if I D, I'm not too worried. I'm having a hard time giving much of a fuck. I'm at peace. I guess my kids are mostly grown, maybe that makes a difference. if I had younger kids I might be stressing.

And no offense to the ladies that might read this, but I have no desire to have a relationship with a woman. I see them. They might look attractive. Several women flirt with me, I "think," who the hell really knows? It all just seems like work. A lot of work. I don't want to have to deal with hormones, emotions, jealousy, bullshit, unhappiness that I'm not paying enough attention, nonsense. Being a bachelor is kind of nice. it's peaceful.

So I ask you my friends, in my betrayed club, why do you give a fuck?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Most of the time I give quite a bit more than a fuck.

I've decided to R so I have too. I didn't choose R out of love though. It was about money, kids, security. Plus I really enjoy sex regularly and am shit with picking up women, so D would mean ALOT less sex. And walking around a Costco on a Saturday morning, I didn't see a SINGLE woman more attractive/sexy than my FWW.

More recently, the love is growing again and she's remorseful. She's fixing her shit.

But the simple answer is I give a shit so I can retire comfortably, be a better parent, and have lots of sex. Maybe someday I'll say because I love her and can't live without her.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understood that R wasn't an option in my case, but I got a phonecall just now from STBXWW that makes me wonder about that.

Yes - I've read about hoovering etc. here and consequently didn't go 'Hooray - it's all straightened out, no harm no foul'.

But the tone of this call and the contents of same were radically different to the tone of all the conversations we've had post D-day and the separation.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 1:13 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone else been here? Am I just crazy? What am I missing? What the hell is wrong with me?!?

You're not crazy. Infidelity just taught you to see the fences.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 1:33 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, because that's fucking cryptic, a bit more detail:

For the great part of our married lives, we never really get tested in the stay-or-go department. Sure, we might wonder sometimes about what single life might be like, or what it would be like to be married to someone else...and sure, sometimes our wives are raging bitches who have determined that eliciting any response to their stimulus is better than no response (definitely better than actually *being* interesting, anyway ).

But, you know, we just plow ahead. We get along. Our wives aren't drug addicts or cat butchers or the sort of lady who kidnaps neighborhood children and poisons them in order to steal their teeth.

Our relationships are these wide theoretical fields of "how would you handle x" and "what would you do in situation y" where we wander around and make grand pronouncements that fit our ethical structure -- we know there are limits out there somewhere, but they're theoretical limits of what we will accept. What really are our proven deal breakers (rather than our theoretical ones)?

(Aside: By the way, it's safe to say that for all of us reconciling, infidelity is not a deal breaker. After all, we stayed. Call it whatever else you want, but the truth is that you can cheat on me and I won't leave you. How you choose to rectify that with your self-image in the darkest corner of your soul is up to you, but you might as well get used to it, because it's an objective truth. We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men.

So, what's your payoff? Because you've got one, otherwise you wouldn't stay. There's something more valuable -- or less fearful -- in your life as currently constituted that mitigates having a cheating wife. Maybe you believe that redemption trumps sin, or God doesn't really support divorce, or as someone else said, you get to keep a nice income and retirement. The valuation of that thing, principle, constant makes your wife fucking other men palatable. What do you tell yourself in the dark?)

Back on point: Infidelity smashes you headlong into one of those theoretical fences. It teaches you the cost of things. No theory left. You come to understand the raw bitterness of those theoreticals and the toll they'll take on you.

You start to say to yourself, "You know what? Maybe I wouldn't accept x." You start to understand in a deeply powerful way that all relationships are contingencies -- even marriage.

You're not just in an endless field at play. There are fences, and once you've seen them, you can't un-see them.

The funny thing about fences is that they remind you that you're free. Sartre-free, I mean. They remind you that can always make a different choice, and there's nothing carved in stone about your future.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess the give a fuck was the largest casualty of the A. It still has not come back, and I don't think it will.
I know I will never want another relationship.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5394 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Call it whatever else you want, but the truth is that you can cheat on me and I won't leave you.

True, but I'm pretty sure this is only something I'll tolerate once. Amazed that I tolerated it once, though.

We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men.

I would make slight alterations and say that we're men who are staying in a relationship with women who fucked another man at one point in our marriage. I don't think anyone who is active here is tolerating this as ongoing behavior. Which is probably not what you meant.

Yeah, this is some messed-up shit.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1376 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Call it whatever else you want, but the truth is that you can cheat on me and I won't leave you. How you choose to rectify that with your self-image in the darkest corner of your soul is up to you, but you might as well get used to it, because it's an objective truth. We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men.

THIS alone is what I work to resolve. Everything else is great.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forged, my guess is life is starting to hit her in the teeth and she doesn't like it. Has she been getting treatment for her BPD? borderline personalities make great actors. bipolar are not too far behind.

bottom line, if she's not in therapy, she's not safe. even if she is, it will be months if not years before she is safe.


WAL, I can't even try to respond to that without a computer. way too many letters to type!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2803 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've got the right sense of it, Sal. I just couldn't come up with a better way to phrase it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just couldn't come up with a better way to phrase it.

Just qualify everything you pointed out with "so far". As in,

We're all men who will stay in relationships with women who fuck other men. So far.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3914 | Registered: Dec 2011
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO we are all capitalists by nature. Everything is an evaluation of what I give vs what I get in return. What will it cost me if I do this?

Our WW traded sex for attention (or whatever they wan to call it). And their OM traded attention for sex. Being the capitalists we are we wont trade something of a higher value for something of a lesser value. The inverse is what we desire. We want to trade something we dont value much for something of greater value.

This tells us something about how our WW value sex. Its of lesser value to them than the attention they are getting. Furthermore they risk their M to us because that is also of less value than the attention. In other words for at least that time of the affair WE were of less value to them than the OM.

OM of course trade fancy words and mostly meaningless gestures for sex. Because sex is more valuable than lousy poetry and a flower left on the desk of the new girl at the office.

Our capitalist nature extends to whether or not we D after the affair. Weve seen this clearly here. We stay for kids and finances and our life style. We even stay because the sex that our WW so easily gave away to OM is more valuable to us than our pride and self esteem.

What would it cost us to D our WW. Remember the court system is unfair. Our WW who had this really great time with the OM she gets rewarded with more than half of all that we worked for. Much of that working even coming during the time of our WW affair. No matter. She gets most of it. AND we will likely have to pay alimony. AND we will likely have to pay child support.. which our WW never has to account for what she really spent on our kids. We will likely loose our house. And most of our retirement savings.

We each have to weigh that cost vs our pride and the freedom that would come from being away from the abusive woman that has brought all this destruction into our lives. Everyone weighs these things differently and so the choice is different for everyone.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forged, my guess is life is starting to hit her in the teeth and she doesn't like it. Has she been getting treatment for her BPD? borderline personalities make great actors. bipolar are not too far behind.

bottom line, if she's not in therapy, she's not safe. even if she is, it will be months if not years before she is safe.

5454, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. The overall message was very mixed, but - objectively - there didn't seem to be any hostility or malice in it, and I think there was some remorse in there too. I think it can be summarized as her thinking that maybe she would want to give this a shot, while doing the relevant therapy work etc. It's not any attempt to get me back on the hook for anything, because I've moved out, mortgage was in her name anyway (worked out better when the property was purchased because I hadn't been in the US that long and had next to no credit history) - only thing that really matters financially right now is that she's on my health insurance. There's no real 'win' for her here unless she actually wants to give the thing a shot.

I don't plan on changing anything - we've separated, are proceeding to D, we live apart. I've had to go through too much difficult stuff in recent months to suddenly do an about face on that. If she wants to sit down and talk face-to-face about reconciliation and therapy, I'll certainly oblige her. I think it's fair to say that the miscarriage and all the fallout from that hampered whatever she might have done about reconciliation had this been a 'simple' A. [Please - I hope nobody thinks I'm minimizing anybody else's devastation, it's just that I found out about the A, her pregnancy and had to deal with a miscarriage of OM's child all in the space of about ten minutes].

You're absolutely right - there are massive issues there to be dealt with and therapy is a must for her, no matter what happens between the two of us. For my part, I am headed to D, and will follow through on that even if she camps outside my front door in an effort to prevent it.


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys, has SWAT70 checked in lately? anyone heard from him and is he doing okay after recent events?


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT seems like the kind of guy who can handle his shit, so I'm not worried (but prayerful on his behalf, nevertheless.)

If he's as smart as I think he is, he's going to be a bit circumspect on the world wide interwebs for a bit so as not to give ammunition to the adversary. Plenty of time to vent after the ink is dry.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Nitrobob
♂ Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wincing, well thought out post.

I know I feel self hatred for staying. And the worst is that look family and friends give you, the feel sorry for you look. How are you doing? They mean well, but they are all thinking what a schmuck you are to stay. The men think they wouldn't stay, but we BHs know realty is different. Walk a mile in my shoes first, right?

I'm glad I had that choice. Some men have WW off and marrying OM.

But even so, it's a bitter pill we swallow.

Sometimes, I think, well at least keep my vows, in good times and bad. But the realty is much less noble. I love her more than she loves me.

[This message edited by Nitrobob at 8:19 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 131 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
sunsetslost
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Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I respect the hell out of you gentlemen that are giving your wives a chance for whatever the reason. Initially I offered. She said no thanks. In retrospect it would've been a train wreck. I have actually thanked her for being so decisive.

Oh look. A palm tree.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh look. A palm tree.
Bitch.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3914 | Registered: Dec 2011
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bitch.


Didn't everybody spend the day floating in the Gulf?


[URL=http://s901.photobucket.com/user/jojosunsetslost/media/9C54F398-A55C-48E3-A693-8A9BF1BD281F_zpsiw1doa4s.jpg.html][/URL]


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
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