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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@yop

does your mother have a really bad temper?

My WW does. Its like she cant control herself when she gets mad.

Everyone gets upset at their spouse at one time or the other. But we cope with it and work through the issue. We compromise and forgive. But those with bad coping and crazy anger issues maybe they dont do that. They instead find ways to get even.

Ill look for a appropriate opening to bring this up with WW.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3374 | Registered: Sep 2007
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Razor - Yeah she does. She's also NPD so her entitlement is really out there too. I just threw this topic out in General because it has been in the back of my mind lately anyway.

That bad temper thing...doesn't do anyone any good. Even more so herself.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1869 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone. Your support really helps.

You're right of course, she has ways to go. And as unfair as it seems to me, it is however my Christian duty to wait and not date. And I understand that now, and as I know why I am ok with doing the right thing and acting my principles. I hope she can do the same. But it's out of my hands.

@yop - reading other people's journals is always a danger. For 18 years, STBXWW had a box with letters from when she was a teenager. I knew some of them were letters to friends and ex-boyfriends and I saw the box several times, but I always respected her privacy.

On the short period while OM sent me a friend request, I went to his timeline. I shouldn't have. He had a picture of that box. Every. Single. Letter. in that box had been a letter between the two of them, while they were in middle school. Of course "what a romantic gesture, she kept these letters for 22 years. etc".

I am today so glad I didn't read them. If I had violated her privacy way back then, I would be way more of a basket case than I am today.

STBXWW had a horrible temper before she met me. I have a calming quality with people. She didn't have a horrible temper while with me, until recently.

I think I read somewhere that NPDs and BPDs have no personality of their own, so they mirror what they see regularly (I guess we all do to a point - the saying goes that unless we live mindfully, we are the average of our 5 closest people). As she started hanging out with a toxic person (see my profile, jailed for DV - those people don't change behavior, just tactics), she became emotionally violent. Probably she experiences that with OM creep and calls it "passion", so she started turning around and doing it to me, particularly after DDay (that's how I see it).

For all I care, they can have their "passion". I'll be here to receive my kids on a 100% basis when he inevitably starts beating her and CPS gets involved. It will be nice to see him back in jail.

And of course, I hope she's not doing it to DS and DD - I enrolled DD on weekly counseling to make sure she's ok.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 607 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

more than anything, I am glad to hear that you will be fine, despite any type of outcome with your marriage.

Yes that is key. I know I will be fine either way. It takes the desperation away from it. No more fear of losing my M. In reality I already lost it once. It would suck, but I will be just fine. My W won't be. Too needy. I find some sick satisfaction in that. She knows it too so I am sure I just have to wait her out before she comes to me and tries to fix this breech.

If she doesn't I am done. I told her a long time ago we are one bad argument away from a D. I meant it then and I mean it now. I feel very calm today. Almost at peace. The fact that my M could end isn't that scary anymore.

My W also said some things in a subsequent blow up. Did she change her meds to bitchy pills ?

I told her that If staying with her through everything she put me through wasn't love, I don't know what is. She said it did not seem like I love her.

I walked away. I could have engaged and leveraged my FOO history to dysfunction to reduce her to a blubbering mess. I guess I took the healthiest approach.

I am not going to be the one to bridge the gap this time. My ego and self worth won't let me.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2544 | Registered: May 2010
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I read somewhere that NPDs and BPDs have no personality of their own, so they mirror what they see regularly

That makes a lot of sense, actually.


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for 5 months in 2013
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm basically bulletproof.


Posts: 72 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No personality of their own.
The reason for that that made the most sense to me:
- trauma in childhood (before coping skills are developed), usually abuse; emotional physical, sexual, &/or abandonment. Basically abuse &/or abandonment.
- Stockholm Syndrome develops, to ameliorate the abuse, but the child more deeply constructs the "I must be bad" "I must be worthy of abuse" "I AM bad"
FALSE self image #1.
- Polar opposite False self image (#2) is developed
to hide that ugly thing they believe themselves to be.
- Life spent ping-ponging btwn 2 equally false & polar opposite self images:
No there there.

[This message edited by jjct at 4:14 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Posts: 6430 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No there there.

Nicely summed up.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2578 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
HobbesTheTiger
♂ Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"And of course, I hope she's not doing it to DS and DD - I enrolled DD on weekly counseling to make sure she's ok."

GP, you're a hero and an awesome dad for doing this! Seriously, that was such a great parental move, words cannot express! Therapy has helped me immensely and I can only wish my parents had me start at your daughter's age and not on my own in my twenties.

How about your boy, how is he coping? Does he have any access to counselling? I understand it's financially hard, but maybe you could find something subsidized/free? Perhaps through some network for autistic/special needs children/individuals?

Best wishes!


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 127 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks 54!

It is also why NC worked so effectively for me.
NC echoes/mirrors the deep-seated 'abandonment' issue.
They fear it above all things.

Ridicule (via exposure of their hypocrisy for example) is what they hate the most, as it echoes/mirrors the abuse.

She stalked my 1st ex, when I was in "ignoring red flags"-mode, 'just to get a visual',
and made a disparaging comment about her 'big nose'.
Without missing a beat, I looked down and behind her and said; "But she doesn't have a big ass, does she?"


Posts: 6430 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone else believe their wifes affair was done to inflict pain on you? Or am I the only lucky one?


same here, razor.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5386 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NC echoes/mirrors the deep-seated 'abandonment' issue.
They fear it above all things.

jj this is so true. I read that in the NPD handbook and used it as a weapon in my own sitch as you saw. It's the only reason she sat there for an hour and 40 minutes. Everytime I threatened to walk away for good, it wasn't a threat. Kept her pinned to her seat having to listen to me for that long. Was excruciating for her. She had me under her thumb for 40 years until I figured this one out.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1869 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone else believe their wifes affair was done to inflict pain on you? Or am I the only lucky one?

Upon further review...probably not. I think she got caught up in something that made her feel like a college party girl again, and just didn't give a damn about anything else when in that mode.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1331 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Same here Sal. Except the plate was set for the rest of her life (house, car, degree, job) by our work together and suddenly I became expendable. I used her fog and whatever guilt that was there to dump the house and car on her and now I'm debt free and starting over. She's buried in debt but she got her wish of being a 30 something divorcee. She'll be 40 by the time it's final but that's beside the point.

Hey. Look. A palm tree


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 693 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


That's why.
Party at sunsets.

Posts: 6430 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey. Look. A palm tree

Nice, throw in some blue water and white sand and you have a Corona commercial.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1331 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Nitrobob
♂ Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi gents, enjoying the conversation.

Some thoughts on the WW, especially the idea that she shattered your view of her, that she wasn't who you married, that maybe she changed, or had MLC, or wanted to hurt you.

All of this assumes a level of perfection in WW that doesn't exist. Some faithful women bankrupt the family, are horrible mothers, grow to 200 pounds outweighing their husbands, become alcoholics or are dumb as rocks.

The fact is that our WWs probably have done so well overall that, when given the hope, many of us agree to R.

My mother said something to me that was very profound. She is 84, and wanted my wife and I to R. Only told her about one guy though. Anyway, she said what if it had been you. And I gave her all the BS you see on the board here about how everyone is so honorable they could never do this, but she didn't believe it impossible, and she was my mom. There but for the grace of God go I, she said. In other words, don't be so sure with the right circumstances, you wouldn't have had an A yourself.

If you had, people have opined their WW would have left, but that's a different question. My question is, if it had been you, if you were deeply remorseful, how would you want your W to treat you? That thought hits me when I get upset at WW.

[This message edited by Nitrobob at 10:11 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 117 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@HobbesTheTiger, thank you. I just thought we needed to stop the cycle. DD8 and DD10 not only need a father still involved in their lives, but they need someone to talk to who doesn't have an axe to grind one way or the other, because what if I'm full of shit too? DS10 is nonverbal so you can't do standard therapy with him, it's like a 2 year old in many ways. But you bet as soon as he's able to understand concepts he will be going to someone.

My mother was a psychologist, so I have seen this stuff work, and I always was close to her books and study material. NPD/BPD and all that wasn't a "thing" back then. She died when I was still a kid. In fact, when my life ends and I meet God, my "customer service moment" will be precisely that. My mother was a BW who died too early. And she worked with children with Autism. Her experience today would be invaluable. It's tough to think about the fact that God provided me someone with all the answers, but took her away from me before I had any of the questions.

But something must have stuck during our time together, because I seem to be going through the correct motions, no matter how empty inside I feel.

Like my mother, I will be delivered one day. I won't die young like her, though. I want to get past this and make my mom proud. I know what's right, and what's right is sometimes difficult. But I'm prepared. I had the best training and I didn't even know it.

@numb&dumb, it's tough when they get like that. I hear women often use hyperbole and insults when they feel they're not being heard. It's tough to hear but know none of it is about you. Glad you didn't engage, brother.

@jjct, how did you get so wise? I need to learn your life story one day, man. WW has most of the problems you stated. And while I empathize and feel her pain (and then some), I can't be a part of the solution. No matter how angry that makes her. And that's the thing, isn't it? They look for the solution in us, when the solution is in them. We're just the ones that made them feel they could achieve it. But then for whatever reason they didn't do any of the work that was still needed.

@Nitrobob your mother is very wise. I tried that route myself. And if she had shown some empathy for me, and acted remorseful (saying it is not enough, no matter how often you say I'm sorry.. actions are what's important), I would have absolutely taken her back. And that's a bit of the reason why I just do my thing quietly. Still NC which triggers her abandonment issues, like jjct said. She is incredibly angry at me because of it. If one day she thanks me for not putting up with her shit and acting my principles, I will know she's starting to come around, and I'll start contact again, very, very slowly. I won't close the door completely until I'm a whole person myself, get rid of my own brokenness, and decide to start looking for someone else. My kids are worth me doing my part.

But in the meantime, I think I need to work on myself.

BTW, DD10 is very sick and we didn't sleep last night. I was cleaning throwup and poo since 10pm last night. I stayed with him today giving him meds and pedyalite and he was exhausted. He is doing a bit better and finally kept some solids in but may miss school tomorrow too, depends on how tonight goes (and it's his end of year picnic). When it rains it pours. Didn't really upset me too much, though, just another thing... At least it gave me space to think (I do housework when upset anyway). Is it weird that I found peace in staying with my son and cleaning bodily fluids?


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 607 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
BAMAC
♂ Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

STBXW is going to be here in 10 minutes to move the rest of her shit out. This is going to suck.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bamac,

I'm sure it will. But like a root canal, soon it will be over and you'll be glad you got it done. Strength.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3772 | Registered: Dec 2011
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been a little while since I posted here... I lurk and read a lot and I used to post quite a bit, but not so much anymore.

Need to ask a question... though I'm not sure if anyone will have an answer. Perhaps I'm just venting then... either way, here goes.

Been a lot of deep talk between myself and my W lately. What we want, are we happy, can "we" work, etc..etc..etc... So.. fast forward to yesterday morning. I woke up in a bad mood. I don't know why, I just did. Melancholy. Over-tired. Sore (I worked on our garden for about 5 hours on Sunday and I was hurting and sun-burned by the time it was all over). So - my W always seems to internalize things... so my being in a bad mood MUST have had something to do with her (in her head). She starts a back and forth over text while I'm at work that ends with her asking me if I want to D.

I nearly had a panic attack when I read that, but... thing is... I couldn't answer her. It's like I couldn't bring myself to commit one way or the other, which she of course took to mean that I want out. No answer is a negative answer, apparently.

Thing I'm trying to figure out is the why... WHY can't I seem to make a decision and stick with it. WHY can't I just commit to R and put the demons in my head to sleep. WHY do I constantly go through what-if scenarios in my head. WHY can't I just accept the fact that my W still loves me and is good to me, and WHY can't I just be happy with that?

I know part of the answer has to do with her A. She broke me, and I think that deep down the A was a deal-breaker for me. BUT... that was almost 5 years ago. So what the hell is wrong with me? She's not the same person who did that. She's grown. Changed. But it's like I still have a wall up that I can't take down. I can't seem to commit, and I DON'T KNOW WHY.

Anyone else been here? Am I just crazy? What am I missing? What the hell is wrong with me?!?


Me: BH, 36
Her: WW, 37
Two girls 8 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
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