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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Losfer.

We had a need as parents to explain the value of honesty to one of our children and while my W has done a lot to change who she is, I still see the hypocrisy in her saying that.

I tried to talk to her about. She used one of my hot button phrases and the moment after it left her mouth she realized what she had said, but it was too late, it was said.

I just walked away.

It brings me back to her being rewarded for hurting me, that maybe the consequences she faces aren't enough and maybe she is not worth the cost.

Last night was the first time in a long time that I actually considered D again. My head through ways to emotionally hurt her so she could understand how it feels to be betrayed.

So today, she is walking on eggshells and you could cut the tension with a knife.

Sometimes sorry just isn't enough, you know.

I will be fine. I just don't want anything to do with her right now. I am not all that angry, more like disappointment. I just took out the brick and mortar to start building that wall again. I have to protect myself.

I don't like there are no more small disagreements in a Post Dday M.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2544 | Registered: May 2010
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

will be fine. I just don't want anything to do with her right now.

I can relate to that, numb. Find myself in the same state. 15 months out, thinking things are going good, and then a week of depression and anger. Have to remember that 2 years is the best-case healing scenario. This sucks.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1330 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Montreal
♂ Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MLC is just one several possible triggers. Parents passing away forcing you to confront your own mortality.

Definitely the case with my wife. Her mother fought a long, and ultimately losing battle with cancer, during which time my wife was her primary care-giver. Her mother never re-married after divorce, and basically spent the rest of her life devoted to her work. So of course as she's dying she's telling my wife to enjoy life, because it's too short, do what she wants to do, don't put off anything because you never know, etcetera, etcetera.

Now she didn't mean drop the pants and/or values she had raised her daughter with, but as my wife would later text to her friend during the affairs "I've realized life is too short to waste any of it" and "I have a right to be happy" and "I have a right to think of myself because you never know" and "I've realized things about myself". Basically using her mom's dissatisfaction with the way her life ended to justify her own selfish behavior. Rather than do the hard work to you know, make the marriage work, she just assumed that it was my job to make her happy, I was failing at it, and life was too short to waste time waiting for me to "get it". Which was another thing she texted to her friend; "It's like he just doesn't get it".

She's starting to "get it" herself now though, and realize that while life may be short it's still hard sometimes, and ain't nothing going to change that. Sometimes you just gotta put in the work YOURSELF to make it better.


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Sep 2013
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will be fine.

Those four small words make such a huge statement about your own personal healing, Numb.

Sorry to hear about the frustration, disappointment, and marital tension that you are currently dealing with.

More than anything, I am glad to hear that you will be fine, despite any type of outcome with your marriage. Took me awhile to get to that point, myself. Definitely helps in the fortitude department.


Posts: 6256 | Registered: Dec 2010
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 1:36 AM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When it rains it pours... Sorry, financial rant.

Because of contacting WW on my anniversary (it went badly) I went back on my healing, triggery again, haven't slept. My son with Autism was up at 4am last night when I didn't get to sleep until 3AM. He had a hard day too. In addition:

- Have been budgeting, and this month *would* have been the first month I was "ahead" (by nothing and through lots of effort, mind you, but just proving I can live within my means alone even after child+spousal support). Except....

- Got my son's ABA therapy bill. Behind by an obscenely large amount (without getting into the politics of it - don't you love medical bills for chronic,m serious conditions?). STBXWW won't pay her half. And those monthlies were not in my budget, so they kept accumulating.
- My father lost his job a while back, he can't find a new one at his age and is now out of savings. Had to lend him $$ for his bills. It's looking like I'm going to have to support him as well.
- Mortgage of the house is going up over 25% because they calculated escrow wrong (or WW has been paying less than she has said). She says it's not her fault - but won't send proof of payment for the last few months as I requested. I don't even live in that freaking house anymore and she agreed to pay the mortgage. I guess not so much..

As a result, my hard earned final budget number in a tiny black is now a giant crimson, bleeding profusely again. I had stopped digging and someone (Murphy?) came in behind me with a CAT 325C excavator..

And that's not even counting the lawyer, who I'm having to wait on so I don't continue spending money I don't have. At least there's no rush there it seems - she's immobile too.

Also, and bittersweet, my 3 best friends, who of course have heard about the D, let me know they are all traveling in July, they want us to meet to party in Vegas for a weekend (haven't seen them in person in 12 years - can't exactly say no to this incredibly moving gesture of support). Did I mention I'm from out of the country? They got passports and everything.

Probably not a good time to try to stick to a budget in general, but if I don't try to keep costs down while things are like this, I will have a scary horrible debt on the other end of this.

As I was going through the Ramsey videos he was talking about relationships and money, and how it can strengthen a good relationship, or make control issues and the need for marriage therapy obvious.

I know right now there's no freaking way if we got back together we'd be able to pull that shit off - and maybe that's what she's counting on. And I won't go back to subsidize her spending patterns while she goes to OM again, even if it saves the rent and makes the finances match again. I'd rather starve. Seriously.

Some things are more important than money, I know. It's just annoying how this situation ruins your life in every way you see it.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'll take a melatonin and try to get some sleep for a change. Seems my son is going to sleep better tonight.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 596 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just letting you know you've been heard, GP.

That is a lot on your plate.

Sending strength.


Posts: 6256 | Registered: Dec 2010
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hang in there GP. One day at a time. Keep moving forward.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 691 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
WearingTheHorns
♂ Member
Member # 37916
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GP - strength to you brother. Just like after dday there's better days ahead.

[This message edited by WearingTheHorns at 2:00 PM, June 1st (Sunday)]


Dday: over a period of three days 11/14-16/2012.
EA/PA: ~ 2 1/2 years
EA/beginning PA: ~ 10 months

"What God has joined together, let man... no man put asunder" -Pastor at our wedding concluding the ceremony


Posts: 249 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GP,

if we got back together

Whaaaat? Still thinking of it? She's got a lot of changing to do before that even becomes a glimmer.

It's just annoying how this situation ruins your life in every way you see it.

Gonna flag you on this one brother. It didn't ruin your life, it ended your M and changed your life. Spoiled the dream you had of what your life was going to be perhaps, but *watching* you overcome the immediate trials tells me that you're going to come out of this a better, stronger GP.

Probably not a good time to try to stick to a budget in general, but if I don't try to keep costs down while things are like this, I will have a scary horrible debt on the other end of this.

50+k in the red at the end of my D. Savings, retirement, both gone. I know it sounds trite, but it's just money. Don't go the route of bankruptcy, but your friends sound like an awesome support network. Ok, LV might not be an option, but my friends came over(not as far as yours, but a 7 hour drive) and we grilled steaks(they bought) at the local park and caught the College World Series.. They understood my financial plight. Would your friends be willing to change plans?

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2566 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's just annoying how this situation ruins your life in every way you see it.

Temporarily ruins your life, GP. Stay strong.

Thanks for letting me vent.

That's why we're here brother. Vent away.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1330 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's why we're here brother.

Now you tell me. I thought it was for the engaging conversation, beer pics, JJ's prose, and WAL's wisdom. Or beer prose and JJ's pics.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3760 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now you tell me. I thought it was for the engaging conversation, beer pics, JJ's prose, and WAL's wisdom. Or beer prose and JJ's pics.

That, too. I didn't say venting was the only reason we're here.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1330 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During WWs LTA we moved a couple thousand miles away from affairville for a new business opportunity. I didnt know about the affair then of course. Anyway while we lived there WW would travel back to affairville to visit *friends*. She was back there about 50% of the time.

Then just before Dday WW convinced me to move my business back to affairville. Which we did. About a month after that she confessed and I had my Dday.

We lived there for about 5 years after Dday. Everywhere we went I was triggering. OM contacted me and let me know he knew we moved back and that he had our address. He warned me not to cause him trouble with threats of legal problems he would bring on me and that he would contact WW again.

I kept this to myself. And I dont think he had contact with WW.

Finally it became too much living there. I retired and we moved a thousand miles away. Even though I made it clear that I couldnt handle the triggers from her LTA. WW blamed me for taking her away from her home town and all her lifelong friends.

That was over 10 years ago.

This last weekend we were moving some boxes about and WW came across a old journal of hers. She looked inside and said *oh I will have to read this later*. I didnt react but made a mental note of it.

Today while WW is out I went and found that journal and had a look. Only a couple of pages are written. It was from a time right after we moved here.

In her writings she goes on and on about how much she dislikes living here. Being away from her friends. She says that I do this deliberately to *control her* and make her miserable. It was the usual stuff about how Im a horrible person and all that. Then she wrote:

*at least I got a couple of good licks in*

This makes me think that in her mind her LTA was done at least in part to hurt me.

Does anyone else believe their wifes affair was done to inflict pain on you? Or am I the only lucky one?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3370 | Registered: Sep 2007
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Razor. Not sure if you know my story or not, it's complicated and long. Anyway, I just had a confrontation with my mother 2 weeks ago about her A and how it blew apart my FOO. As well as everything else that went with it. One of the things that really pisses me off, which is why your post here is striking a nerve with me, is in so many words straight out of her mouth is that she was pissed at my father. She did some things deliberately to hurt him and my brother and I were just collateral damage in what she was doing. My interpretation of a lot of what she was saying is that she used her A as a weapon to emasculate him. She was pissed at him for a number of reasons, most of which are the common everyday reasons that you here around here. Not enough attention, always working, didn't want to have fun, all bullshit. And she admitted that these reasons made her angry and spiteful.

The analogy is that my father, brother, and I were sitting in the living room watching tv. Suddenly my mom pulled a pin and threw a grenade from the other room and blew us all apart. My dad and I lived. My brother died, not necessarily because of the A, but in the aftermath we didn't know he was bleeding out. She was still flaunting her AP even after I exposed her. She should have used a gun to target my father if that was her intent. Not a grenade. But sometimes I wonder if she even wanted to have a family. Especially in the fog of the A, we as a family were a hindrance. I honestly think she resented us all and still does.

So yes, I agree that sometimes they do things deliberately with the A to hurt you or out of spite. The A can be used as a weapon. Certainly was in my family.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1851 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone else believe their wifes affair was done to inflict pain on you? Or am I the only lucky one?

Interesting question, Razor. It's definitely something I've considered. "Husband" and "father" were four-letter words for my WW growing up. Even though they reconciled later in life, he was a complete non-factor in her life when we met and he wasn't even invited to our wedding. Husbands and fathers represent abandonment, infidelity, pain, and divorce. For WW's with FOO/daddy abandonment issues (and that seems to be more the norm than the exception), maybe they subconsciously look for sacrificial lambs to exact some payback. We were the lambs.

One thing that became clear in MC - my WW didn't trust me and was always waiting for me to run off with some bimbo or to cheat on her even if I stayed. That's what was modeled for her growing up. That's simply what husbands do. She seemed genuinely stunned when I looked her in the eyes and said that not only have I never betrayed her, I can't recall even a single conversation with another woman that I wouldn't want her to overhear. Still not sure she believes me. In her world, such a creature simply doesn't exist.

So that was the state of our marriage for all of those years leading up to her A - I gave her complete trust that she didn't deserve; she regarded me with undeserved suspicion and wariness.

SI has this icon for a reason -


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1330 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks 25yop.

It sort of dropping a nuke on a section of town where the crime rate is high. Innocent people die. And theres fallout that rains down on the good side of town.

One of the things WW complained about in this journal was that I was always suggesting things for us to do together. The was pissed about this because I always suggested things I wanted to do (and assumed she would want to do too).

I was trying to include her. I was trying to find some common ground. And my suggestions werent always just things I wanted to do. They were things I thought she wanted to do that we could do together.

And all this while she never suggested anything for us to do together.

I guess all she wanted was to be with OM. Which was something we couldnt do together...

I dunno why it is. But this is bugging me today. I probably shouldnt have looked in her journal.

These days me and WW are in a pretty good place. Being separated from our old friends over these last about 10 or 12 years has kinda forced us to be together more. So were better in allot of ways.

I wonder how much of that hatred toward me she still has though.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3370 | Registered: Sep 2007
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ Sal.

WWs father died when she was 14. Pretty formative age. Maybe she takes his death as abandonment.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3370 | Registered: Sep 2007
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe she takes his death as abandonment.

Almost certainly she does IMO. My WW's father died after an unexpected and fairly quick illness in February, when she was 42. She said "he abandoned me twice." That's how she sees things even after a year of counseling.

Unless he committed suicide it doesn't sound like your WW's father had a choice. But my wife's made a conscious choice to abandon the entire family for a woman he picked up in a bar when my wife was only 12. 28 years later, my wife "abandons" me and our kids for a sleaze that picked her up in a bar, at least temporarily. History repeats itself, pain gets paid forward in unending cycles.

My father came from a completely F'd up FOO. His sister was only 14 months younger, so they grew up in the same family at nearly the exact same time. She had a miserable life full of failed marriages, infidelity, and abandoning her own kids. 3 out of her 4 kids have miserable, broken lives, and the 4th seems sort of hard and unhappy most of the time. My dad raised us the best he could, provided a safe and stable home, and is still with my mother today. He definitely has some issues - a little narcissistic, irascible, can be short-tempered - but basically is a stable, law-abiding, honorable citizen.

I should probably catch a flight home this weekend just to kiss his ass. It only recently occurred to me that my upbringing could have been much, much worse. Probably should have been. Seems to me that people rarely recover from traumatic childhoods without a lot of help.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1330 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WWs dad died of a heart attack.

Her FOO? I dont know about any infidelity with her parents. BUT. EVERY SINGLE ONE of her siblings has had affairs. She is the 5th. So out of 5 kids her parents had. Every one of them cheated at least once.

Her oldest brother and older sister had multiple affairs and marriages.

I wish I had known then what I know now. I should have looked at her siblings and seen the pattern. I did see what they were doing but thought WW was different.

FOO issues only hold so much water in my view. Because my FOO is the poster family for disfunction.

This isnt my native country. Im a naturalized citizen. Anyway there was turmoil in my COO (country of origin) and my parents were very much in on once side. Basically they used me and my sibs as canon fodder for the cause.

2 of my brothers were murdered. 1 right in front of me. I held him as he died. Not long after that I got the hell out and came here.

Our FOO gives us a example. We see that example and make a CHOICE. We either follow that example and live a similar life. OR we see that pattern of life as something to avoid and use that example as a template of what NOT to do.

Just because a person comes from a fucked up FOO. doesnt mean that they are going to be the same. Sometimes they can be the opposite.

[This message edited by Razor at 12:05 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3370 | Registered: Sep 2007
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Razor

I dunno why it is. But this is bugging me today. I probably shouldnt have looked in her journal.

These days me and WW are in a pretty good place. Being separated from our old friends over these last about 10 or 12 years has kinda forced us to be together more. So were better in allot of ways.

I wonder how much of that hatred toward me she still has though.

I know what you mean. I've had some time to process a lot of what my mother said in these last 2 weeks. This aspect of purposefully being hurtful really bothers me. I already have issues with her to begin with, but this is enough to almost make me never speak to her again. Ever. I've already told her it won't be until this fall until I speak to her again. I very well may make that permanent. Especially after her admitting to wanting to hurt my father.

Why do they keep this shit around in writing? It is a snapshot of that point in time and is fantasy, but no less hurtful. That's how I found out about my mother's A. She left her diary on the kitchen counter. Didn't realize what I was reading at first. Reading their thoughts is just flat out scary. Some of the roughest that I read was my mother's AP told her she was so good in the sack, that she should teach her boys how to fuck. I could elaborate but I don't want anyone to lose their lunch. I was left to try to decipher between what was real and not real.

Since you are in a good place with your wife, why not discuss it with her together in a productive manner. Visit that painful place even if for a moment to put it into context so that unresolved issue in your head can get some closure.

yop

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 12:06 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 1851 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
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