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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 20
BAMAC
♂ Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GP, I think it's a good sign that it's starting to hurt less. It shows that you're detaching. I'm still struggling with detachment, which is why I've decided NC is the best thing for me. Even the minimal contact we have is rough on me. Even when it's buffered through our attorneys. Have you read Living and Loving After Betrayal by Steven Stosny? What you write about values is very similar to what I read in that book:

Acting on your values will change your feelings— if not immediately, in fairly short order— as you begin to feel more authentic, with less guilt, shame , anxiety, anger, and resentment. However, the converse is not true. If you act on your feelings, you run the risk of getting lost in the vicissitudes of temporary emotional states that will make you violate your deeper values and cause more guilt, shame, anxiety , anger, and resentment. For example, your betrayer almost certainly acted on her feelings in violation of her deeper values. The choice to act on feelings over values caused the betrayal.

I actually sent STBXWW an email with that passage, in a futile attempt to spark some introspection. Of course she came back with BS and blame shifting (how coincidental that the acronym for Blame Shifting is also BS), and that was when I knew I had to stop trying to fix her. Now I'm focusing on fixing me.

Herkemeyer, I think LAFA is spot on, at least for me. I don't think there's an easy way to figure any of this out, or an easy way to get through this. I was reading about Maya Angelou after hearing of her passing, and saw this quote in the comments:

I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.

You will figure this out, and you will do better.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 84 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
HeartFullOfHoles
♂ Member
Member # 42874
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slightly triggery for me Razor. My story has some parallels. WW doesn't have a nanny, but has had a regular maid in the past and she is a SAHM. Spends her days doing who knows what and then complains I need to find a job that pays more and requires less of my time. Basically the same entitled attitude demonstrated in the story. I'm controlling if I don't let her spend money on what ever she wants, I'm abusive if I disagree with her or raise my voice. Yep, same crap different story.


BH - Divorcing
D-Day 4/28-29/2012
Two daughters in HS

Posts: 160 | Registered: Mar 2014
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So this falls into what Ive heard about women wanting a dependable guy to provide security ($$$) and help take care of children - AND - women wanting a bad-boy exciting guy to have around for sex and whatever.

Are these adult women we're talking about here? That sounds like a lot of the girls I knew in high school.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling
PM's w/ male members only please

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe they're really stupid and shallow adult women.

There are guys who want a nanny & housemaid while getting it on with a mindless whore on the side, seems reasonable that there'd be a gender parallel for the loser end of the scale.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad I've never seen that channel. Since DDay about all I watch is sports and news. No way I could watch a show about a SAHM who gets bored and tries to "spice" up her life with sex from random strangers. I've lived that show.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3963 | Registered: Dec 2011
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These seem like high school girls to me as well. As someone not as far removed from high school I can attest, hooray for my age being able to chime in for once! The question of the day is, why would you want to be married to someone who is "me me me". I read an interesting psych study about the happiness levels in relationships with an imbalance of giving and receiving which summed up goes like this.

Giver + Receiver - Happiness 6 and 4 (out of 10)
Receiver + Receiver - 3 and 3
Giver + Giver - 8 and 8

The algorithms used to calculate these values are far too bring to be worth posting here but rather profound when they mathematically prove that the giver is happier than the receiver by far. Supports a lot of the layperson observations we see day in and day out about the overbenefited partner tending to be the one seeking extramarital [Fill in the blank]. Ask yourself, are you willing to settle for 60% happiness? I am not, and if I am with a receiver that is the life I am choosing for myself.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 162 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its also bothersome that there is so little under standing or support for those on our side of things. People maybe thinking that being cheated on will never happen to them because they have a good M and are supportive of their spouse.

I know I felt that way.

The wake up call was a bitch.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree Razor, hell, I even had those same naive misconceptions. Throw me in an ice cold lake now.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 162 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When watching this I felt that the murder was the lesser crime.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When murder seems like mercy there is something wrong.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 162 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The *something wrong* IMO is that people dont under stand the depth of pain and destruction suffered by the BS.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh but we're men, just rub some dirt on it. We're here to provide and be strong and emotionless. What a depraved society we live in and the loss of wisdom when someone like Maya Angelou passes takes us one step closer to full depravity.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 162 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
WearingTheHorns
♂ Member
Member # 37916
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of triggery and entitlement, last night I decided to check some of the other hits that came up from googling surviving infidelity. One link was an article on webmd which was on why women cheat. It made it sound like cheating was VERY common, but what goaded me was these two or three "experts" interviewed for it. Basically, according to them, we men are unemotional, uncommnicative brutes who deserve to be cheated on for not giving our wives what they want and need. When we find out we've been cheated on, we shouldn't be surprised. We just need to stop being cry babies, get over it and move on. After of course seeing the error of our ways and becoming what our wives want us to be.

I was really surprised to read such cock-eyed drivel on a site like that.


Dday: over a period of three days 11/14-16/2012.
EA/PA: ~ 2 1/2 years
EA/beginning PA: ~ 10 months

"What God has joined together, let man... no man put asunder" -Pastor at our wedding concluding the ceremony

2 Cor 12:9-10


Posts: 273 | Registered: Dec 2012
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read somewhere that doctors. nurses. and marriage counselors. have among the highest rates for affairs among careers.

Consider the source.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
HeartFullOfHoles
♂ Member
Member # 42874
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's a quote I found interesting from a TED Talk I watched last night.

“We don't seek the painful experiences that hew our identities, but we seek our identities in the wake of painful experiences.”
Andrew Solomon: TED Talk – How the worst moments in our lives make us who we are

We're here to provide and be strong and emotionless.
My WW doesn't expect me to be emotionless. She expects me to only express emotions she can handle or that are positive from her perspective.


BH - Divorcing
D-Day 4/28-29/2012
Two daughters in HS

Posts: 160 | Registered: Mar 2014
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW doesn't expect me to be emotionless. She expects me to only express emotions she can handle or that are positive from her perspective.

Mine too. Heaven forbid that my pain ruin her day.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor,

Triggery story, man. I never got poisoned of course, but WW's OM *is* a contractor, she *did* have a nanny *and* a maid and didn't work. The nanny was more or less full time (child with SN takes a lot out of you), the maid came once a week. Indeed she had a lot of time on her hands and used it to shop, while I worked too hard.

I don't put it as hard as "job being a prostitute". But being a housewife (or househusband, there are some) is definitely an "easy" life, relatively speaking. I think the problem may be that they spend so much time focusing on the needs of the working side of the couple they start resenting it. idleness devil's playground and all that. I know WW was not very happy but was doing great while she was going to school (and I could trust her completely even if she was out all the time she'd call, tell me where she was, chat with me about all her friends and other students, I'd visit at the classroom whenever and nothing felt weird, etc). Maybe at some point they start realizing their lack of accomplishments and go off the deep end instead of deriving pride of the accomplishments of their spouse (which, if they have been doing their job as supporters, I think are also hers in a very real sense)?

I know in my case, now that she blames me and blames me for not traveling with her I tell her she kept going on vacations "by herself". If I had known she had company, maybe she could have taken me on couples trips instead? At what point did she stop caring about my needs? I was very busy, and it's probably my fault for not noticing (I'm the obsessive type), but that would be a reason to take me to marriage therapy, not to cheat on me.

I don't think she's capable of murder or anything, but I definitely can't trust her anymore.

BAMAC, I have that book. I haven't done all the exercises. And now that you mention it I do remember both reading that passage and talking to WW about it in the early post-dday days. It came up this time because of hearing a sermon at my church. Pastor also spoke about the peaceful and stable life you lead when you act your principles (in the sense of following God's commandments, since at church it's assumed the principles are religious).


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 749 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotPlayed.

I didnt mean to downplay the role of SAHMs at all. Keeping the household going and dealing with the kids with activities and homework is tough work. I never intended to say that it wasnt.

I was speaking about women who dont have SN kids and do have nannies and housekeepers. These women spend the day playing tennis. swimming. and shopping. And so I see their contribution as zero. She was taking and not giving back.

Actually this POV was first brought up to me by my WW.

If there are women reading this that are offended by this POV I am very sorry. I know women cant post here. And I never intended what I said to be a attack. It was just a vent about that situation I saw on the tele. If there are women who remain upset at me please feel free to send me a PM.

And if I can somehow manage to not get banned for posting this POV I will respond with apologies to anyone who is upset.

Again. I am very sorry if I offended anyone.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
outside4me
♂ Member
Member # 42430
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can relate, Razor. Several weeks back I posted a vent about TY and POSER's shared born again christian status, which apparently offended (totally unintentioned, I can assure you). Now I just lurk and try to glean support vicariously. I don't want to offend anyone either!

Posts: 218 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When watching this I felt that the murder was the lesser crime.

Haven't seen it, but I vote for the murder being the greater crime. Let her cheat - that's why God created divorce courts. But let the poor bastard live so he can go on and do something useful with his remaining years. Like finding a second wife who isn't a complete f---ing psychopath.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling
PM's w/ male members only please

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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