Broken people... Addictions can be porn, money, drugs, alcohol... Many people on SI say A's are like addictions. The refuge chosen is the addiction.
People in addictions are seeking love of some sort. I am sure they are seeking the love of affirmation.
Our spouses did not appreciate nor value our love nor was it enough. We on the other hand were far more accepting of love. Satisfaction can come at many different levels an scale different for us all depending our own language of love. Some of May have been so into ourselves we did not pay attention. It was the way we reacted or total selfishness.
A LTA is not like a man or woman making a single mistake. It is much deeper than that. We can say it is all about them but it is painfully true it is also about us. It is up to to now learn and make a choice to change who we were and end up far stronger, wiser, better... Or continue to live in this cruel world the same way as what failed us before. When two healthy people come together as one it is most beautiful.
When you examine our vows...they do not say I promise to trust you. Trust is a choice. I can make the choice to trust but but it should always be earned based on behavior.
We can also make a choice not to be naive. Nativity is a learned behavior. I choose to understand a given in life we all face. People are not always loving or loyal.
And when a person gets married, the vow is ours to make, and we can only control us.
I am not convinced that a spouse in an A can possibly love someone in the way it is suppose to be. They in fact are not loving you, not saying affirmations, not touching the right way, not giving gifts the right way, it is theft of quality time, and not giving the service deserved. I am not convinced a person in an A behaves those trusting behaviors.
All we can do is know when someone is not loving us the way it is suppose to be. I with courage will communicate... Your choice to love me or not..and I love myself enough to keep those who want to love as I do in my life.
And sometimes we accept someone in our lives not loving us. That is our choice. And that is ok. But when the misery comes, and it will come, and it will hurt, we must say, ok I am going to control my emotions... That is the choice I made.
But me? I choose not to place myself in the best possible position to avoid misery.
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:40 AM, June 15th (Sunday)]
when you marry someone, you give them trust and you believe that when they take their vows of fidelity they will hold them sacred....no one and i mean no one gets married or should get married if they believe otherwise.....most of us believe its forever and that we will be their one and only....and until they give us enough reason to believe otherwise thats just how it is...
for us now on the level of a lta....its mind boggling to us to find out just how long our ws's have honestly carried on with their lta's....
no marriage is perfect...all marriages are work, all marriages need to be nurtured.....and all marriages hit rocky points...and all people and relationships evolve...the question becomes do you evolve "together" or do you hit a crossroads and you don't.....and it can happen so subtly, you don't even notice its happening, it can take place over a long period of time...and a lot of the lta's that have transpired seemingly didn't happen in just one night....most were nurtured instead of the marriage being nurtured....it happened one day at a time, day after day after day....and the changes that transpired within the marriage because of the growing new relationship happened slowly a little at a time..changing ever so slightly bit by bit...for a lot of us it meant we put up with a lot of shit that didn't just happen overnight but over time....
there are a few who were really flabberghasted because their marriage seemed "perfect"...meaning no issues, or big issues...
my long winded point....you were no fool.....there are way too many of us here....and we simply believed in our spouses...believed in the vows we took....believed that any issues we had would be worked out within the marriage...
but the issues for a lta ws i believe are different then for those who have had a short term affair, or a one nighter and come clean or who don't repeat the behavior...
the lta ws is a totally different breed....
and you are still new....believe only what you see and not what you hear....believe only in actions....take words for what they are...just words...words that are not backed up by actions are just more lies...
and honest....i believe you are completely right....6 months is more then enough time to give someone to "be" what they should have always been in the marriage
(((ats))) i am so so sorry ats...i know you gave it your all...mrs ats is broken and will always be broken because of her history....i do believe she is as remorseful as she is capable....therein lies the problem...mrs ats is not capable on so many levels...and mrs ats when backed into a corner does not react well...and unfortuantely she always feels like she is being backed into a corner....and dip hit it on the head as well...for the bp....feelings are facts....
anyways...we are here for you ats....
wow....just hit a realization....there are several of us oldies going through this at the same time....so i would like to make a toast to those of us oldies who just boarded the "train towards divorce" the road to get here was long for each of us....some of us knew this train was the goal, some of us fought hard not to board the train and still others have been back and forth....we are good people, and we are strong people....stronger then we think sometimes....we will do better then just survive....we will thrive....
which brings me to tryn pov....always fixing himself....i believe we should always strive to learn what we can throughout life and life experiences...i choose not to look at it quite the same way though my friend...i do not believe we need to be "fixed" but we do need to "grow" and "learn" about who we are and to nurture ourselves to be the best person we can be....will we make mistakes along the ways...of course we will...that is how we learn....and one never stops learning til the day you die....there is always something new to learn...whether its to expand your knowledge of self, others or even subjects...the learning never stops...
So sorry, ats. I suspect your W is so calm because she has been preparing for this mentally for some time. It would have been nice if she had clued you in!
Happy Father's Day to you dads!
So sorry, ats. I suspect your W is so calm because she has been preparing for this mentally for some time.
i do believe she is as remorseful as she is capable....therein lies the problem...mrs ats is not capable on so many levels...and mrs ats when backed into a corner does not react well...and unfortuantely she always feels like she is being backed into a corner....and dip hit it on the head as well...for the bp....feelings are facts....
iwant, your post made me cry. Maybe because I am feeling emotional this week and am particularly vulnerable, but it was a great post, and it made me nostalgic for the "old tribe". Laura, Nell, Allgood, deeppurple, dip, ats, tryn, honest, and njgal (sorry for those I have forgotten to mention) to see where we are now from way back then to now.
there are several of us oldies going through this at the same time....so i would like to make a toast to those of us oldies who just boarded the "train towards divorce" the road to get here was long for each of us....some of us knew this train was the goal, some of us fought hard not to board the train and still others have been back and forth....we are good people, and we are strong people....stronger then we think sometimes....we will do better then just survive....we will thrive....
TheBestMe ~ I am glad your discussion went fairly well. It takes longer than I want for old behaviours to turn into new behaviours.
In communication, timing is everything. If the need arises I will restart the discussion.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
Sister: I hope you are feeling better. Yes, we have all come a long way with the help of all the wonderful people of the tribe.
Sharing our stories helps each other in many ways. The advice and support here has truly helped me to survive and given me hope to carry on.
You guys have been our brothers in this journey and I can't thank you guys enough.
You have proven that there are wonderful, caring, loyal men out there.
Thank you all of our brothers of the tribe!
How could I forget ReunitePangea, 7yrs, hopeandchange? I am sure I am forgetting many.
HAPPY HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALL OUR LTA MEN!!!!
i forgot all about it being Father's Day while not forgetting it at all... ...when i went to meet a friend for brunch and saw the huge line, i was like HELLO< MIRACLE.....you forgot to wish the lta menz a happy dad's day...so here i am.....and i will wish it again....the day is not over yet...so i hope all our menz is having an awesome day and will have an awesome evening...
and for our women....may you find peace today....for a lot of who are not happy with our ws's who are our kids dad, or for those of us who have lost their dad, or have a lousy dad.....i wish a wish of peace...
oh sister i am sorry if my post made you cry...i miss a lot of the oldies too...some whom i know have not moved on to better pastures...i worry about them and then of course there are those who did...and i am happy for them...like nell and strong...both whom have gotten engaged...i wonder if either has gotten married yet...hopefully they will drop by one of these days and give us an update...i still keep in touch with lovin...she has been a very happy camper...i am not sure if she was before your time....
anyways...i try to think of them all doing better and moving on from si because they can
Happy Father's Day to all our brothers who have helped us so much!
Ats, Tryn, Dip, 7 yrs, MCJack, Reunite, hope and change, and so many others! I also hope I'm not forgetting anyone.
To all the "newbies", welcome to our tribe. As we learn more about one another, we can offer better advice. Sometimes some of us are going through a lot of pain and we help as we can.
The wonderful thing about the LTA tribe, is that although so many of us are going through a lot of pain, we try as much as we can to help one another.
LTA's are hard to deal with.
For some of us, we are completely in shock.
Some of us suspected, but our WS covered their tracks well, or gaslighted.
Ironically, in order for it to be a LTA, the M usually was a long M. We have so much invested in terms of kids, family, a lifestyle. We've invested a life time, put off decisions for ourselves for the M, and the kids.
We have a lot to lose in terms of family, friends, lifestyle, money, etc.
We are not just thinking about giving up a M to our WS, but a life that we built over a long time.
Sometimes we've slowly put up with so much stuff and then find out what the WS did we cannot believe it. We are devastated beyond belief.
I know with xWH#1, who was a "controlled" alcoholic, I had put up with so much, and then he had an A and wanted to leave!!
With current WS NPD, I was completely devastated. I had to heal as much as I could before I could even think of leaving.
NJgal has often recommended a book called "Love Must Be Tough". Although there are a lot of religious overtones in it, I think It's a must read.
We must be tough. If the WS is not SHOWING by their ACTIONS that they are trying, we MUST be strong for ourselves.
Trust your gut.
Don't believe in words or promises, although yoiu may so WANT to believe them.
I subscribe to giving a WW 6 months to come around. If she has not by then,file and prepare to move on. Do not make my mistake. With a FWH reduce the waiting time to less than three months.
WS operate by different rules than us. In my experience she put herself first, throughout the M in retrospect while blaming me for everything wrong.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:54 AM, June 16th (Monday)]
If the WS is not SHOWING by their ACTIONS that they are trying, we MUST be strong for ourselves.
And sometimes even if the ARE. The LTA may be a deal breaker for me even though WH is doing what he can to show his remorse and make amends. Some people may just be too broken to stay with, and some hurts may be just too big to swallow.
Waiting to see...
Some people may just be too broken to stay with, and some hurts may be just too big to swallow.
Krsplat: I agree. Sometimes a BS may get so focused on saving the M, that we fail to see the brokenness of the WS that was always there. Many of them hid behind a mask and for me, I think I loved the mask or who I thought he was. When the mask slipped on occasion, I chalked it up to him having a bad day, etc. when in reality it was the real him.
And sometimes even if the ARE. The LTA may be a deal breaker for me even though WH is doing what he can to show his remorse and make amends. Some people may just be too broken to stay with, and some hurts may be just too big to swallow
Yesterday, my H told me that he " was not in his right mind" during the A. He could not be specific about what that meant, but it tells me that he is trying to make sense of his behaviors and choices.
My H is often tearful when he thinks about the pain and disappointment in himself. He was surprised when I told him that he must begin to forgive himself for hurting himself. My hurt is collateral damage and it is mine to resolve.
Together, we are taking steps to build and to renew our friendship. Being best friends is what led us to becoming husband and wife. Sunday, after we'd had a scare from my 93 years old mother, my H with tears in his eyes said "...then there will only be you and I." Yes, that is M; just you and I.
Both feet pointed forward; positive
He didn't want her and now she doesn't know if she wants to try again at our marriage...
There are times when we have to say goodbye to the person that we love. This is when being selfish in order to be the best that you can be, that quality person, is vital for your healing.
You may stay married but it will not be a quality marriage. It will be more like living in a state of limbo. Not fair for all concerned.
You have a lot of living ahead of you and you deserve to be happy. I like your plan of moving forward with the divorce as soon as possible.
Don't be a hero when it comes to the financial settlement. Be fair-that's all. Do not allow her to take advantage of you any longer.
You can survive this and thrive!
and very well said..."just your and I"
sadly none of us had that....kind of why we are "here"
krsplat: waiting to see is pretty much what most of have done....just don't wait too long...give him enough time to show you who he is "now"
ats: again i am so sorry that it didn't work out for you...i do disagree with your timeline though...i think 6 months is perfect for all ws and bs's actually....especially for a lta.....its just enough time to either "see" or "show".....and its enough time for a bs to line up the ducks, or at very least come to terms with this overwhelming shit.....for me it took that long to just function let alone make any decisions...the only decision i made was to actually give my ws 6 months to shape up or i would be shippin him out.....and then i worked on my well being, still investigating him, but taking care of myself as well as i could...it was an exhausting overwhelming experience especially since every day practically i learned something new that was ugly!!! it can take that long just to come to grips with it all
of course there are those wo aren't given a choice as the ws makes the choice for them and leaves....
welcome to our little corner of si, and i am so sorry for your pain....sadly you may never know the answers to your questions....but i have a question for you....from your short post it would seem as though your ws has made the choice for you so far, but has also left you dangling as she might opt to come back to marriage....so my question to you:
do you know if you would end up being second choice and are you willing to settle for that?
One of the comments someone made-about how the BS must have known something....even if it was on a gut level?
well....like you I did not have a clue that my husband was carrying on a 5 yr LTA!
I knew he was depressed and grouchy and unhappy and difficult to live with but I never for a minute guessed that those characteristics indicated an affair.
so maybe some BS knew something and chose to ignore the gut feeling? That wasn't me.