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User Topic: Wife and good friend
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Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll chime in with Reunite and SMS on the LTA issue. Often these are not passionate relationships - they would blow up otherwise. They survive for that long because the partners don't really want to change their lives. My WH's LTA was essentially a FWB arrangement, and he did throw her under the bus pretty quickly. He has also been working hard on R and I am cautiously moving toward forgiveness. The complication in your case is that it's a double betrayal. Another place you might look is the Men Only thread on I Can Relate.

Another thing to think about is to not put pressure on yourself to make any decisions in the short term. You have a perfect right to change your mind -- and the change it again. Nothing is irreversible, and it will take time before your emotions calm down

BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1061 | Registered: Aug 2012
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Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, April 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Lots of good advice that you are receiving here.

That is the one thing that is so beneficial from a site like this: you get several opinions, and many of them varying, but with one thread in common---we are all looking out for your best interests. So whether one poster's opinion varies greatly from another, you at least know that it comes from the heart.

One past part of a post that I would like to reemphasize:

Demand that she sees a shrink to find out:
A. Who she really is?
B. Why she thought it was acceptable cheating on you, your marriage and your family?
C. What she wants from life?

I know that your WW is working on herself right now, but this was worth repeating. You stated that you don't like this person very much right now. And that is totally understood. But what is really important is that she shouldn't like this person right now---and wants to find out how she became this being in the first place. And if she can find those answers, then you will have some substance to attempt reconciliation with.

It would be a shame to discover that this "new" person is the real woman that you met years ago. The indicators do not point that way, but you will never know, unless your WW digs deep.

Good luck.

2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D

Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
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Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too agree with others about the friendship with the other BS. But, also see how it can be helpful. AS LONG as you monitor the connection (don't develop an emotional connection). Which could be difficult seeing that you were all best friends, there inherently is already emotional friendship connections with all of you. AS LONG as her emotional pain from her husband's betrayal doesn't suck you down too.

Yes, you do need that support. Yes, it is nice to connect with someone that understands. Yes, it would be nice to have someone to bounce info off of. Yes, it would be helpful to have someone that can monitor each others spouses making sure NC is being adhered to. Just make sure that your wife knows. To heal...there can't be any secrets with both of you.

Me-BW 39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
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Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, April 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe it is my anger speaking but I would have your WW pack her bags and get out of Dodge for the moment.For the next few months actually...Let her get counseling while living apart from you..
What she did shouldn't be forgiven without her knowing how massively traumatic and life changing it was for all the people involved..Adults and kiddos..
At the same time you will have the opportunity to build yourself up as the guy who you were before you became a husband, father, etc..
In other words it is priceless peace of mind to know you will live and thrive okay without your WW in your daily life..
She and all WS's need to know that we can do okay without them..

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1255 | Registered: Nov 2011
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Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, April 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take it one day at a time.

I was tremendously helped after dday by meeting several times with some friends who had warning flags that something was going on with OW and my XWH, so I agree that meeting with the OBS some will help you. Like everyone here says, at some point in the next few weeks you might have to go NC with her for a while - so you can regroup and focus. However, make it clear to OBS you welcome any info on IF her WS and WS make any suspected contact.

**Hoping your WW can really make a change in herself** - A while back I read (I can't remember who on SI it was, though,) where the WW's father immediately put his daughter in a private treatment facility. The BS posted here that at the first family meeting the wife was already owning her issues, was working HARD on becoming a different person, etc etc. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you in case that's an option.

me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2215 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi sleepless,

How are you doing? It's been. A little while since you posted and I'm sure the reality of the situation has likely hit you hard. Throw in a family-centered holiday and it can be emotionally overwhelming. You were supposed to have IC on Friday. How did that go? IC can be helpful with the right C, but I've often found the collective wisdom and shared experiences I've found here on SI have been profoundly helpful. I hope you will come back and let this fine group of people support you! Hope you are doing okay!!!

Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 715 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
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Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was an interesting weekend. IC was fine. Counselor seemed ok - but the impression I got from him and other sources are that the primary needs are for WW to get her IC started (scheduled for Wednesday this week) and to find a counselor for both of us to help guide us. My IC will be available on an as needed basis and I anticipate going every 2 - 4 weeks.

Easter was hard - VERY hard. One of my other closest friends is my brother-in-law (wives are sisters). Through me he has become close to the WH over the past several years. We are in the same monthly poker group, same golf group, go on guys weekends together, etc. During the time to visit before Easter dinner, by bro-in-law must have mentioned the WH at least 5-6 times as he asks about Spring Break, the upcoming poker game (that WH won't be at), the upcoming guy's golf trip (that WH has now backed out of) and the annual golf tournament this Summer - that I had to tell bro-in-law that WH likely can't do that either.

For the first time I felt physically ill. My new reality slapped me in the face - hard. How interconnected our lives are is crazy.

Met the other BS for coffee today (I know that many say we should break all contact but we are helping each other at this point - but we talked about the reality that we will likely grow apart as the families will not be together again). She has agreed that they will start to try and "drift apart" from my bro-in-law and his wife by making excuses to not get together and will not be inviting them to events. Really hoping that will be enough and we will be able to keep the secret as we work to reconcile (hopefully) - but fearing that at some point it may have to come out.

If it does - will "friends" and family hate my WW for what she has done to me? To my family? To her best friend? How will they view me? With pity? With misunderstanding about how could I even think about trying to reconcile (this I fear the most). Before D-Day I always thought that if WW had an affair and broke my trust I would be gone and would not look back. Then it happened. I have thought about both options - reconcile and separation/divorce. I am hurt but I am still in love. I have so much invested in us.

WW is saying all of the right things. Luckily there has been no statements of love between WW and WH and that she still loves me and is willing to do anything to work to save "us". Time will tell. I've never been hurt so bad. Two people that I trusted and loved 100% - it is mind boggling that this could happen.

BS (me) - 46
WW - 44
2 kids - 15 & 11
M - 1998
D-Day - 4/12/14
Affair - Sept 2010 - 4/11/14

Posts: 10 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Pacific NW
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Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, April 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really hoping that will be enough and we will be able to keep the secret as we work to reconcile (hopefully) - but fearing that at some point it may have to come out.

I fully understand that you feel embarrassed by everything that has transpired and that you don't want other people to know. There is nothing wrong with this.

What is "wrong" (for lack of a better term), is that you are still attempting to deceive yourself into thinking that after a few sessions with a counselor you and your wife will get your old life back. You won't. You can either choose to build a new life with your wife or without her - but your old life is dead.

The reality is that when your BIL was snooping around, you should have told him that he is no longer a part of your life and that is all there is to it.

Furthermore, you are still catering far too much to your wife:

the impression I got from him and other sources are that the primary needs are for WW to get her IC started

With the greatest amount of respect, what your wife needs is irrelevant. She lost all the advantages of a marriage when she crapped all over it. What your friends and family think is also irrelevant. This is about you! What do you want? Do you understand how insane it is to make a R/D decision based on what others would think about you?!? Who cares, this is your life!!! You shouldn't be scared to divorce your wife because Brian the Baker and Felicia the Florist would have a negative opinion of you.

Which brings me to a serious question: Are you scared of being alone?

Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would very much like to know what posters have suggested rug-sweeping and/or what posters have minimized the trauma Sleepless is going through. I would appreciate examples of how this is perceived in the posts on this thread because frankly I can’t see a single instance of either.

I would also appreciate some sort of disrespect scale. If this affair is seen by some to be more disrespectful than other affairs I would appreciate some sort of scale we can grade affairs by. Personally I think all affairs are perceived at the same level of disrespect but I might be wrong there. Maybe I should phone my ex-fiancé and thank her for showing me the respect of screwing someone I didn’t know rather than an old friend and for picking random men rather than sticking to one. Gee – makes me feel better about it already!

I don’t think broad claims and generalizations presented as facts or inevitabilities are beneficial to new members dealing with infidelity. Based on what Sleepless has posted we don’t have a clue whether his wife is capable of true reconciliation or why she wants to reconcile. We might know of trends or odds, but we should be careful to put them forth as such rather than inevitabilities.
Once again: I wish posters kept in mind that our hosts here are a reconciled couple. I wonder if we would have access to this great site if that BS had been told right away that the WS only wanted to reconcile to maintain a comfortable lifestyle.

Finally: Way too often we see posters suggest throwing the WS out of the house. In most states (and countries for that matter…) that can be perceived as abuse and can backfire with serious legal consequences.

T/J over…

Look Sleepless;

It’s relatively unlikely that the affair is truly over. It might not be active but until she totally commits to the marriage… well then she’s simply in a state of inactive infidelity.

To better understand then let’s switch “problems” here:
Instead of discovering your WW affair then imagine you get a call one Sunday morning asking to bail her out of the county jail. She assaulted an officer when stopped for driving intoxicated. When you talk to her on the drive home it turns out she went with the girls to a bar, drank Mojito’s by the gallon chased down with Jagermeister shots, danced on the tables, puked in the parking lot and crashed the car into a light post before slapping the officer that responded to the call. Turns out she’s been hitting the bottle nearly daily and has several stashes hidden around the house…

So she comes home totally committed to not drinking. She gives you the key to the bar and is totally 100% committed to sobriety. She might even not drink for a month. But then she has a glass of white with Saturday lunch. Then she agrees to go with the girls to the bar next Friday. She only has a soda. Then a glass of white… only to hold… Then that’s finished her has ONE cocktail (just to hold and sip slowly…). Soon that’s chased by another cocktail. Before you know it she’s dancing on the tables…

That’s how her infidelity is right now. She’s probably totally 100% committed to ending it. But chances are she hasn’t truly sensed the damage she caused. Hasn’t totally realized how close to the point of no return she was. So in a few days/weeks/months she sends OM or responds to a “are you OK” message. No intent on rekindling the affair – just like that glass of white was “innocent”. But it more or less inevitably leads to a rekindling of the affair.

The same tends to apply to infidelity as does to alcoholism: Stopping the drinking is the easy part – remaining sober is the tough part. So like any sincere alcoholic has to deal with the issues that make him want to drink despite knowing its harming his life your wife needs to deal with why she cheated despite knowing it is harming her life.

IMHO the situation you are in only gives you two possible sustainable outcomes. You can reconcile or you can divorce. Of the two you only have control over the later. That’s the simple fact: Divorce is the ONLY option you have major control over (control within the procedure of divorce as in your state). To reconcile you need two major factors: Your commitment and HER commitment. For now her word that she wants to reconcile… that’s like her commitment to not drinking in the above comparison. It alone won’t hold water.

IF you want to reconcile – you have that short period from now until she acts on her need to check “innocently” in on OM to start her on the right path. Her condition and her situation is key right now to whether you two can reconcile or not so her next steps are definitely of major importance…

There is absolutely NO WAY you can tell her what to do. All you can do is tell her what YOU can do and what you need. For example: You can’t tell her that she HAS to go to IC. But you can tell her that unless she can get to the bottom of why she feels entitled to cheat you really don’t see reconciliation as realistic. And then you can suggest IC, MC, self-help… whatever it is you think is the best option. But SHE has to take the steps.

The question whether you fear to be alone is a good and valid question.
What is it you fear the most? Is it the shame of the affair? Is it losing your wife? Is it an end to your present family?
Sleepless - if you’re greatest fear is not the thought of your wife REMAINING in infidelity… well… there maybe isn’t much we can help you with…
If the thought of your wife leaving or your marriage being over are worse than the thought of your wife coming home after being with OM… Well… why risk losing your wife? Accept sharing her and learn to live with it… Frankly A LOT of people live this life where they accept their spouses infidelities rather than risk losing them.
Not something I could live with or would accept, but this is YOUR situation…

IF however that doesn’t sound too great then your greatest fear isn’t losing your wife. You should be willing to risk EVERYTHING to avoid ending up remaining in infidelity. That includes letting relevant people know, being completely aware of your options if this ends in divorce, willing to walk the path that is available to you even if it’s not as wide and straight as you would like it to be.

I strongly encourage you to look into your options.
Go online and read about divorce in your state.
Know the process. Know possible timeframes.
Get your financial accounts straight. Know what you own and what you owe.
(This is like putting on a seat-belt when setting off on a car-journey. You don’t do so because you intend to crash)

Realize what you want. I’m hoping it turns out to be wanting out of infidelity.
Realize what you can control. Basically it’s only you and your realistic requirements.
Differentiate between what you want and what you can realistically want. It’s like saying I want to become rich and then implementing a frugality/saving plan and saying I want to be rich and buying a lottery ticket. The former will get you there – the latter is based on hope, terrible odds and a lot of luck.

Then set off on a path that leads you OUT of infidelity. You can offer your wife to come along and you might even offer to hold her hand and lead her to begin with… BUT SHE HAS TO TAKE THOSE STEPS. You can’t carry her.
You don’t need to rush things – as long as you are progressing out of infidelity then its fine. But you need to evaluate your progress and make sure you are not stationary or regressing back into infidelity. This just might require letting your wife go.

Sleepless – We can help you progress out of where you are. We share a collective experience that enables us to tell you with relative accuracy what the most likely outcome will be from your actions and her actions. I strongly encourage you to post here and accept our guidance. Even in its diversity it’s immensely better than sitting in the dark with the issues you are dealing with. Heck – maybe it’s even because of its diversity that our advice tends to make sense!

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:49 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is some profoundly good wisdom from Bigger. I am always thankful for the wise veterans on this site. It's the first time I've seen "inactive infidelity". I've read "dry adulterer" and both of these are very real and accurate descriptions/ possibilities. My WH tends towards addictive behaviors, but always thinks he can overcome them himself. His A was another addiction. He sees it too. But he needs to do more than be "dry" or "inactive". These are pearls of wisdom. Tha k you, bigger.

How are you doing, sleepless? How are you feeling? How is your WW doing? What is she doing? Besides OBS, are you getting any support from friends/ family IRL? I know I've been pleasantly shocked at how supportive many people have been. Especially my own parents (who I thought would disown WH) and even my MIL. And many other good friends. This is my new reality and "hiding" it from my support group wouldn't really do me any favors. People are human and have shortcomings and failings. Hopefully people will not judge us only for our failings but how hard we work to correct our mistakes. Have some faith in your friend's and family. They may surprise you. Your life is changed forever. Let them help you on your new path. You may really need them.

Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 715 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
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Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I appreciate all of the responses as I feel that all are truly trying to help me through their personal experiences in this horrible reality of infidelity. However - the ones I find helpful at this point and the ones I read again and again are those that sound similar to me. Spouse had an affair with a friend and their lives are intertwined in so many ways. AND those that have worked hard to try to reconcile and move forward. Those are the ones that I find helpful at this point. The posts that recommend kicking WW out - slash and burn - separate immediately - divorce - etc are not ones that I find helpful and I do not finish reading those posts. And no - I will not live with infidelity just to save the marriage. That has been made clear to WW. ANY communication at ANY point - unless discussed and approved ahead of time - will lead to separation and dash the hope of reconciliation.

Nothing is off the table for me - and I have told WW this several times. My mind is crazy right now (some days seem fine and others seem like the world is crashing around me) - but I choose to be hopeful. My soul tells me that it is best to try to work towards reconciliation and my WW appears to be doing and saying everything to convince me that she is on board and is willing to do anything I need to try to save the marriage.

Those posts that are full of anger and hatred and basically saying I'm an idiot for not kicking her out and for thinking I shouldn't believe anything WW says or does because of the A are not helpful at this point.

With that in mind - I will continue to read posts from members and am grateful for them. If I find posts helpful, insightful and thoughtful - I will likely respond with follow up seeking additional thoughts and advice. Those that appear to be based on hate that the poster is still feeling - I will not read in full. I will never say never. I truly don't know where this path will lead. But at this point I choose to follow the path that will hopefully lead to a true reconciliation.

So - with that off my chest - an update:

WW has had her initial IC meeting. Said she found a person that she clicked with and is hopeful that it will be a long term help to her figuring out her issues which in turn - hopefully - will lead to a better us.

I have names for MC's that I have not called yet. Wanted WW to get IC first then will pursue MC shortly.

I have chosen - for now - to use my IC sparingly. Instead I have been meeting with a good friend often. He knows everything and is someone I can tell anything too. If I want to reconcile - he will be there for me and assist with compassion for me and WW. If I decide another path - he will stand by me.

I'm learning that a mind is a bizarre thing. My moods have changed drastically day to day. Some days (most days) I'm just empty. Really no feeling at all. Other days I have extreme sadness and rage. Some - shockingly - my mood has been good and life seems fine, like nothing has changed. This is the most odd to me.

Apologies for the rant. The last thing I need right now are negative thoughts. I have plenty of those myself. I know that everyone on here has been through this and has been hurt terribly. Every situation is different and how we all react is different. I just know that I don't need negative "advice" at this point.

BS (me) - 46
WW - 44
2 kids - 15 & 11
M - 1998
D-Day - 4/12/14
Affair - Sept 2010 - 4/11/14

Posts: 10 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Pacific NW
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Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my opinion you are an amazing man. Hopefully your wife will realize this and realize that she put that in jeopardy.

I feel so sad for you when you describe your empty feelings - I think you are in a period of mourning - you are mourning the life you had, the marriage you had, the friendship you had.

But do not regret your friendship. I heard something weird once that always stuck with me. A woman was at her husband's funeral and crying very hard. The priest came up to her and said he was so happy to see how sad she was. The woman was incredulous - how could you be happy at my sorrow. Because, he said, it shows that you had something so wonderful in your life that the thought of that being gone causes such deep sorrow. Do not forget what it was that was so wonderful.

And on that "weird" note, I'll get back to work.

D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8111 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
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Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

this is my first post here...but I have been coming to this site for well over a year...I understand how some comments can make you feel positive and some can seem negative...
I read your posts and for the first time it made me NOT think about my own story is different (not a double betrayal) but your pain and panic ( I know those feelings well!)made me realize how FAR I have come...and I just want you to know that it may not feel even POSSIBLE but you will find a strength you had never imagined you had...along with feelings of despair that can be completely debilitating...I found that I DEVOURED many many books on infidelity...too many to count!! the last one and the one my spouse read (he isn't a big reader) was The Secrets of Surviving Infidelity by Scott Haltzman MD...other books mentioned here are also very I said I devoured many books! Yea Amazon!!
Hang on this is a wild ride...

3 adult children 1D 2S
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr

Posts: 627 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
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Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The harsh reality is that many of the men that come to these forums are your typical "nice guys" who seem to want to avoid conflict at all costs and want to do the "right" thing. In essence, their life is so tied up in making others happy that their emotional center is with someone else: in this case a wife. Their own life is no longer a priority.

An example: If the oxygen masks come down during a flight, what do we do? Do we help others first, or do we put our own oxygen mask on and then help? The answer is the latter.

When infidelity occurs, 'nice guys' are so determined to fix the situation and help others with their 'oxygen mask' (children, wife etc.) that they forget to look after themselves e.g. "OK, I'll spend the rest of my life feeling depressed and rejected so long as my children have both their parents in the same house - because this is the 'right' thing to do". However, people are deluding themselves if they think that children do not pick up on a parent's unhappiness.

If being a 'nice' guy allowed your wife to justify an affair (in her mind), then surely being a 'nice' guy will not win her back. Consequently the behavior of both the BS and the WS needs to change to build a new marriage. You cannot control the actions of the WS, but you can damn well control your own.

In response to Bigger's post: I define rugsweeping as an action which protects (for lack of a better word) the WS at the expense of the BS. There are a few exceptions but that's pretty much it from my perspective. As a result i have decided to quote a few posts to support my argument (no names). If you have written one of the posts - please do not take it personally. I genuinely wish you the best in your respective lives, i simply disagree with the way forward.

You do not have to make any decisions now. You do not have to tell anyone now. I opted to be very careful who I told as I would have consequences to deal with if we stayed together

I am almost a year out, and my advice is to move slowly

My advice is to tell as few people as you can at first

You are so close to DDay that you can't make a good decision right now.

At this time, you don't know how your R with your wife will go. And if it turns out great and you and your wife rebuild your marriage, you might wish you had not told certain people, or anyone for that matter.

People say that as a rule of thumb one should wait around 6 months from D Day before making a decision. In my case,it took a bit longer because my wife lied to me on some key facts of her affair

All the above give the impression of maintaining the status quo and buying the WS some time to get her head straight. Most importantly however, you will always be reacting to someone/something else. Essentially you are not in charge and are allowing the WS to dictate terms. Like i said in my first post in this thread, i am not telling OP to immediately choose R or D - but i am telling him to get up, dust himself off and regain control of his life (no matter how tough it is).

Take 'iamsoblind42' for example. She dusted herself off, looked at the situation and decided that infidelity was a dealbreaker. Was this easy for her? I doubt it, but the point is she decided to actually do something about the situation she found herself in. She made an attempt to alter the status quo. This is how i see it:

-If you lose your job, you have my full support
-If you get e.g. cancer, you have my full support

These are the benefits of being in a relationship. However, if you cheat then the WS is 100% responsible for winning back the relationship. Until he/she shows enough remorse, i am moving on. After DDay I will not sit there with pen & paper and attempt to psychoanalyze her, or find out her motives (at least not at the moment). I will also not hang around for her to drop out of any affair fog - "You have 10 seconds to choose between him or me" If there is any hesitation at all, i am pulling the plug and will fight tooth & nail for my kids.

I would also appreciate some sort of disrespect scale. If this affair is seen by some to be more disrespectful than other affairs I would appreciate some sort of scale we can grade affairs by. Personally I think all affairs are perceived at the same level of disrespect but I might be wrong there. Maybe I should phone my ex-fiancé and thank her for showing me the respect of screwing someone I didn’t know rather than an old friend and for picking random men rather than sticking to one. Gee – makes me feel better about it already!

What? Facetious? Infidelity is heartbreaking whether it is one inappropriate text message or a 50 year double life. People react to it differently. However, surely you can recognize that a one night stand with a stranger is different to 3+ years sleeping with the guy's best friend. Both are heartbreaking, but the intertwining lives of the two families shows a greater disregard for the victims.

[I would also like to make it extremely clear that i have not told the OP to kick his wife out (at least not without consulting a lawyer).]

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Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ZedLeppelin - thank you for taking time to share - but your view is one that I do not find helpful. As such I stopped reading mid way through your latest post. I don't mean disrespect - but I do not find your views productive to me or my situation at this time. As such - I would kindly ask that you seek other threads to post on and not this one.

BS (me) - 46
WW - 44
2 kids - 15 & 11
M - 1998
D-Day - 4/12/14
Affair - Sept 2010 - 4/11/14

Posts: 10 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Pacific NW
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Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

k9lover1 & hopefull77 - thank you. I thought your posts were kind and I appreciate your thoughts.

BS (me) - 46
WW - 44
2 kids - 15 & 11
M - 1998
D-Day - 4/12/14
Affair - Sept 2010 - 4/11/14

Posts: 10 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Pacific NW
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Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My first time posting on your thread. My husband's OW was an employee, his childhood sweatheart, my friend, and my sister's best friend. Her daughter was in my sister's wedding. The list goes on and on.
I can tell you the hardest thing about double betrayal is the constant mentioning of the OP. Since she was an employee people would be constantly asking where she was, what happened, why she didn't work with us, etc. We were friendly but during the affair she was overly friendly to me. Constantly calling me at all hours. Little did I know she usually just hung up with my husband or was trying to find out if he was home yet.
Anyway I just wanted to tell you I understand how you feel. It will get better but is hard until your friends realize there has been some kind of rift. My therapist said if anyone asked what happened to say that they would have to ask her. Put it back on the other person.
It has been four years now and my husband and my marriage has never been better not because of the affair but because we have worked so hard to stay together.

DDay - 11/4/09
BS-49 DDay
fWS-46 DDay
EA/PA with childhood sweetheart/ kissed
R - 11/25/09
Life is not a dress rehearsal

Posts: 1461 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Northeast
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Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sleepless - I am also a first time poster to your thread. Like you my wife had a long term affair - the details may be somewhat different but I think the lessons are the same. May I offer a few things I learned?

1. Reconciliation IS possible. At the outset we men tend to be debilitated with the facts - when, where, how long, what position - but, in the end, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what your wife brings back to the table. If she returns to the marriage with absolute, 100%, complete remorse then you can rebuild. And, yes, it can be better.

2. It will take some time - for both of you. You will need distance from Dday to process the event and to heal from the pain. She will need time, too. Not to get over him, necessarily, but to process the betrayal - what SHE did, what SHE had become. It's not an easy thing to accept that she was with another guy - and guess what? It may not be easy for her to accept that, either. She jeopardized her marriage, her role model as a mother, and let down everyone she knows. It's hell being a betrayed spouse - but I wouldn't want to be a wayward.

3. In order to reconcile there will come a time when you BOTH need to move toward each other. A time when you realize that yelling at her, arguing, asking the same questions, etc. are an impediment to achieving the goal - which is rebuilding your marriage.

You will need to go through all that, of course. Especially the first few months, tempers will flare and words will fly. That's part of the healing process. But, in time, it will be necessary to move forward and put things in their place. Can you do that?

4. You know this already but communication is key. If you can't do it without your emotions flaring, write it down. Be clear. Tell her what you need to heal, what she can do to help you. Ask the questions that you need to come to an understanding. As difficult as it is, try to keep the communication positive so that you can move forward.

5. Lastly, no matter what ANYONE says, YOU will know if she is fully on board with reconciliation. You know her better than anyone else. Hold her hand. Look into her eyes. What do you see? If you see what I saw... then give her the opportunity to come back to you.

Always, always keep your eyes open. That is a given. As you and I have found out there will never again be "security" in our lives. But within that wall of protection there needs to be a sliver of hope for her - so that she can show you that she has learned her lesson.

It is a difficult, emotional road. It has taken me more than two years to process and come to a better place. But it can be done.

Good luck on your journey.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
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Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, April 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Ive been around here a long time....I also believe that if the WW is TRUELY remorseful...and willing to do the work needed - R is very possible...IF that is what you want to do...

Im not trying to 2x4 ya here, ok.....just trying to help....I have seen and heard a lot of affair stories over the last 5 years or so....

I do not see D as a failure concerning a marriage that has an A in of two things can happen when adultery occurs.....R or D....and both are right answers...for is a deal breaker, and that is OK....for others it is not - and that is OK too...

Please be advised that this is a long....very long ride...will not be fixed with a few trips to a'll take at least months...sometimes - its is not an 8 second ride....(rodeo joke - a redneck!). FWW did not have a LTA.....however, there are a lot of similarities among the different types of As.....whether they are LTAs, exit As, rekindled As or the ego stroking "shits and giggles" affairs......and that is.....frequently....hell...a lot of times....cheaters will lie.... (No Bro - not suggesting your is, OK?)...they frequently will hold back - we call it trickle truthing.....they will admit to what you already know...and can prove.....nothing more. Brace yourself - you MAY not have heard the whole story...

APs will frequently develop an emotional attachment with each other (nope - not saying yours is), women very frequently do (my FWW didn't - hers was just "sport fucking"), men sometimes do get emotionally attached to the APs...and people in LTAa can - sometimes. It may take your wife sometime to get out the affair fog - and yes...I believe there is one (we debate that often on these forums).....remember - they did not confess - they were busted! This fog is a normal behavior, JMO - I'd be aware it could occur in your case....

Be sure to take care of your self.....yeah....YOU!!!! Try to eat...drink lots of fluids...(not beer!) and get some sleep...yeah...I know - VERY hard....took me along time to get past that 3 hour mark at night - kept waking up....AND I lost some 40 pounds on the "infidelity diet" - I do not recommend it for anyone....

IC is a good move - your wife needs to find out what drove her to make the decision to have no blame in that decision - do own the issues your marriage may or may not have had pre-affair....KWIM?

Some of the old timers on here have offered you some very good advice....and also some of the newer ones have too....I do know a lot of affairs are different - they do have some startling does the road do of the biggest mistakes I have seen on here is that sometimes the new folks believe their situation is so much different and unique than others on here....chose of ignore a lot of what we say. I do not concur - there are a lot of similarities....I believe we are just trying to help you....based upon a lot of BTDT.

One more aware that a lot of affairs will go underground shortly after DDay - do not put your head in the attention to her actions......actions speak louder than words....lots of folks have had numerous fortunate to not be one of them...

Yeah this affair shit blows.....hardest thing I have ever been through in my life - by working on 6 years out, and am still spitting out teeth....

If your WW is truly remorseful....finds out why she cheated (through IC), and is willing to make changes in her thought process.....does everything to "win you back" and "regain your trust" open and transparent.....R is possible....she has to do all the work, you cannot do it for her....and she needs to do it before your "give a shit" quits working..... As dudes, this is sometimes hard - we like to "fix things" - we get impatient....this cannot fix alone.

Good luck...keep us posted...


[This message edited by bufffalo at 11:17 AM, April 26th (Saturday)]

DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08

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