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User Topic: 21 months out....still uncomfortable.
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I am about 21 months out now....still uncomfortable with trusting my wife. But my bigger concern is that I am still unsure of trusting MYSELF.

I need a 2x4.....because I feel more broken then your average BS and that is a stumbling block for me.

I am aware of my codependent past and believe it is still a factor but I also see very clearly ($$$$ in IC and tons of reading have helped me see myself more clearly) how I can help myself and our M by doing what is uncomfortable.

I look at how my actions pre-A were destructive to myself and our M. The more I look into and investigate some of my chosen courses of action pre-A I am both shocked and dissappointed by my "lacks". I have found some tremendous reading resources as well as attending therapy and some wonderful retreats....all help to bring healing to old wounds within me.

Pride was a bigger force in me then I ever thought it to be. Fear was also present underneath that pride many times.....fear that I NOW trace back to some events in my childhood. Making decisions with fear as a primary driver hardly ever results in constructive actions.

I see many folks tracing thier brokenness back to childhood. I also see some BS's talk about their brokenness....LA44 talks about her choice to reach for alcohol in the past. I reached for porn. But I see many more BS's display the ability to work and heal on their trauma caused by their spouses affair.....and able to keep from getting too focused on their own brokenness. LA44 seems to be able to work both on her own brokenness AND the wound that she recieved by her husbands choice to have an affair.

I am concerned that I am the limiting factor to the speed in which R is able to take place. I see my wife more willing to trust me, more willing to reach out to me then I am to her. I DO reach out, but have more of a "holding my breath" demeanor than she does.

Pre-A I was very quick to express a THOUGHT or JUDGEMENT....but I now realize I was having trouble really feeling and expressing those feelings.

Thanks in large part to Retrouvaille I am learning how to both feel feelings and express them WITHOUT thoughts or judgements.

I wonder if me feeling more broken than many SI BS's is a gender-issue? Far more women SI BS then men. Maybe pride is more prevailent in men then women? Though, certainly my wife was very prideful in her own independent abilities....and was so confident at the begining and middle of her A that she "had this" that she was "in control"....so I know women can be just as guilty of pride as a man.

Starting to feel like a black sheep here.....also concerned about restarting codependent cycle OR gravitating to a victim mentality (which is a "worst case scenario" for me....worse then our M dissolving).

It appears to me that I have almost focused too much on self-growth and improvement. The cost of doing this is to neglect the feelings surrounding my wifes affair. The result is....slow healing from that wound. I get that I have to feel to heal with regards to my wifes affair....but I HAVE felt it...a LOT!

But when do you know?????

Also....we are going to another therapy session today. When do you know you can fly on your own???? I see some able to heal from this without ANY professional therapy.

It appears a limiting factor for us is....trust.

A recent wise person said that

"Trust and efficiency go hand in hand. The greater the trust, the greater the efficiency."

He was talking about within a business....but this man is a "relational guy" more than a "business guy".

I can see how this theory works in a M too....the more you trust the other the more you can get done. You don't waste time checking up on them because you trust them to get some things done on their own.

I get why I don't trust my wife.....I think my own brokenness, and how for decades it remained hidden, is what I need to unlock.

It is an unnerving thing to have your spouse so intentionally hurt you. It is VERY unnerving to see how ones own actions hurt themselves.

I am just feeling.....unnerved.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:38 AM, March 31st (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have almost focused too much on self-growth and improvement. The cost of doing this is to neglect the feelings surrounding my wifes affair. The result is....slow healing from that wound. I get that I have to feel to heal with regards to my wifes affair....but I HAVE felt it...a LOT!

I guess I kinda wondered when you would get to this. It was almost as if the pain was to great to look at so you turned inward and looked at yourself - you could control that.

My husband didn't look - squarely in the face - at the pain I caused him. He couldn't bear to - simply too painful. And it didn't end well.
I guess at least you're working on something=- something that really needs to happen anyway. And now, you're better equipped to deal with the hurt of the affair. Maybe it could only be done this way?

Pride is... difficult to pin down. I don't think it's a gender thing. I'm afflicted by too much of it. I think it may be one of the hardest things to change about oneself.

good luck!

JMO....


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5344 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you so down on yourself in this post. You are truly being very hard on yourself today. I am not sure what sparked this, I do understand the frustration with the process and wanting to be more healed at this point than you are, I think we all struggle with that.
What "lacks" are you referring to? We all have our imperfections; this is what makes us individuals, along with our strengths. Maybe you can make a list of your strengths as well?
I think that those of us who chose to move forward with R do try to focus on growth and improvement as a way of staying positive, and I think that this is healthy of we are choosing to move forward with our WS. But I do also think that being somewhat cognitive in the approach to moving forward can keep the most painful feelings at bay. They will creep in, and when they do, I think it is important to feel them, to sit with them and let them dissipate somewhat rather than push them away which may cause them to rear their ugly head more fiercely than before.

You mention fear and pride in your post. When comparing your wife's willingness to trust you vs your holding back, I think that this may be what is holding you back; fear. It is scary to be vulnerable and trust again after such a betrayal. Maybe if you can tap into the feelings that are holding you back, the fear, you will move closer to allowing her back in to your most vulnerable space in your heart.
Please don't feel like the black sheep here; this IS a roller coaster. We will take a few steps backward sometimes in this process. But that is not such a bad thing. What comes out of these backward steps is more growth, insight and healing. You are both working hard, together. IT's such a tough process, but you are doing it. Give yourself a break….


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 660 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Rachelc.

My husband didn't look - squarely in the face - at the pain I caused him. He couldn't bear to - simply too painful. And it didn't end well.

I have long since said continous prayers for courage.

I too worry about choosing similar choices as your husband. I also believe this real concern is part of why I do so much reading and introspection on my brokenness.

I have known since early in my M that I needed firm boundaries with other women...it was one of the few I had and I believe it is one that kept my use of porn from escalating into full on adultery. I certainly wish I had more boundaries in other areas of my life, but am ever so grateful for this one being in place.

I also believe one of the reasons I felt it necessary to get the details of my wifes affair and to do things like sit in the driveway of that remote farm house where the sex took place was so that I could NOT turn away from it. I had to make it REAL and UNAVOIDABLE.

That first 2 months after my DD #1 was me doing just that......turning away. I regret those decisions and am doing things to avoid repeating those dreadful decisions.

....and yet, you make a good point. I could be avoiding pain.

We have a new therapist who seems more apt in her abilities to help shepard us back from the pit we are both in.

I have hope. I just feel.....different....then many other BS's.

Thanks for the support...it nurtures the courage to do what needs to be done.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Neverwudaguessed)))

You are truly being very hard on yourself today. I am not sure what sparked this,

Just came back from a 2 day conference...EntreLeadership and The Smart Conference....both Dave Ramsey brain childs. 2 days filled with speakers who really "get it"....know what it is to be a person living with integrity and principal-based leading (business and personal life).

I am very encouraged by what was said...read most all of their books.

What sparked this post was most likely a dip after this wonderful experience.

A dip because of what they all said tied together much of what I have come to own as the "truth" over the past 21 months.

Truths that eluded me for 3 decades and now seem so easy to understand and own......biblically based truths, not society based truths.

Part of my issues was using society truths as my compass...particularly with regards to porn use.

I appreciate the support....I am not depressed per se....just regretful. I am hopeful for the future as what I am learning is going to help my M and improve all of my relationships.

I could very well have gone my whole life repeating my same cycle.

I have opportunities TODAY to do things differently.

You are also correct, fear is still trying to be a factor in my life...and still has some power over me.

We are getting better....just seem to be at the lower end of the curve.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's commendable that you are trying to tackle both the A and your own issues at the same time but hope you can be patient with yourself. Like you said, you're old coping mechs were built over decades! It;s going to take a while to tear those down and build new ones.

I'm still having a hard time with all the feelings/emotions surrounding the A that I haven't touched on a lot of my own issues. I believe that I am feeling some of these things more strongly/healing at a slower pace because of FOO but at the same time am not fully able to look at those issues because of the pain I'm in.

What I AM doing is trying to be more vulnerable. I am sharing my feelings/pain with WH and telling him what I am afraid of. I'm trying not to rugsweep or bury everything because that is what I would have done before. Theway I am doing this is to ask myself, "what is the worst that can happen if I'm vulnerable?" He rejects me? Isn't there for me? Doesn't support me? I've dealt with those things all my life. What I'm hoping for is that he'll surprise me.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
spond
♂ Member
Member # 41686
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brother blake,

edit:(my random thoughts)

From reading this post, it just seems like you are spending too much time on the past (imo).

Start looking at the present.

The cost of doing this is to neglect the feelings surrounding my wife's affair.

Do YOU judge that you spend too much time focused on the A and NOT focusing on recovery. At some point you need to take it out of the main focus, and make YOUR main focus recovery and carrying on with the relationship.

still uncomfortable with trusting my wife
Has your wife proven with actions that she is trustworthy(post-A that is)?

I personally have my days when "I" question "my ability" to trust my wife. Over the past few months, I go further and further between "my lack of trust" relapses. There were days that I would look every hour on "Find my iPhone" to see where she was and if it was where she said she would be. But over time, her ACTIONS have spoke louder then her words, with regards the trust bank. It's been over a week since I have looked for her iPhone location.

Do you do anything that gives you a break from reality? Watch a movie, play a game, word puzzles, anything? Something that takes you mind off of EVERYTHING else. Everyone needs a break. If you want something that will be guaranteed to take your mind off of it... go skydiving , and yes... that is from experience.

sending you prayers brother!!!

[This message edited by spond at 11:38 AM, March 31st (Monday)]


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 416 | Registered: Dec 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Coupla thoughts...

I need a 2x4.....because I feel more broken then your average BS and that is a stumbling block for me.

'More broken than average'? You don't know that. Beside that, I doubt the pain can be measured, and it's probably not true even if it could be (measured).

What I read is a lot of self-pity - which actually may be useful for you right now.

You do fine coming up with 2 x 4s for yourself, so getting others to whack you is not the likely way out. Now may be a time to sink through self-pity so you can process your real pain.

No 2 X 4 - just self-nurture and self soothe.

You are also correct, fear is still trying to be a factor in my life...and still has some power over me.

That could be one of the healthiest things you've ever said - fear is a major tool for protecting ourselves. Of course, we need to be judicious in how we respond to it.

I have long since said continous prayers for courage.

I'd suggest reframing that - use the energy you use in praying for courage to be courageous. You're not going to accomplish much unless you risk failure.

Don't conflate recovery with R(econciliation). They're 2 different things. Recovery is something you do for yourself by yourself. R is something you and W do together. You can't R without recovering, but you can recover without R.

Of course you're the main obstacle to recovery - you're the only one who can do the work. A C is at best a guide - you do the work. You can view yourself as the obstacle who's slowing you up so you'll come in last in the race. You can also view yourself as the only guy who's pushing the work forward, and you'll come in first in the race.

The best approach, though, is to keep doing the work you need to do, and every time you lament about the (admittedly) slow pace, tell yourself, 'Keep working blakesteele - it'll take as long as it takes.'

I know that's much easier said than done, but it's really worth teaching yourself that lesson.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10440 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey blakesteele, I was wondering about you today and then...a post! I am sorry you are feeling down.

I see you looking back often for your answers. I think there is value in that. But sometimes I worry that you are missing the now. The good stuff right in front of you.
Do you ever feel that way?

LA44 seems to be able to work both on her own brokenness AND the wound that she recieved by her husbands choice to have an affair.

While this is true, I would say that I spent the MAJORITY of my time and energy on the A in the first 12 months. Absolutely. The further we got from D-Day, the more I started thinking about what I needed to accept about me.

Also...must say that while this doesn't bother me

....LA44 talks about her choice to reach for alcohol in the past

I am not much of a drinker. Dad sure was. But he has been in AA since I was 10. He's a lifer! Yes, I will have some wine or vodka with something at a party, I was never a daily drinker.

Anyway my friend,

I see my wife more willing to trust me, more willing to reach out to me then I am to her. I DO reach out, but have more of a "holding my breath" demeanor than she does

I do understand that statement. It is tough but instead of holding my breath now, I take a big gulp of air and say what I need to say, or go into his arms or grab his hand.

As always, wishing you well.

[This message edited by LA44 at 12:07 PM, March 31st (Monday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2483 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have almost focused too much on self-growth and improvement.

Yes, that may very well be the case.

Think back to college; At some point you graduate from book learning and go out into the world to apply the knowledge. It the difference between knowing and doing.

Now that you know better, it really is time to do better.

I see my wife more willing to trust me, more willing to reach out to me then I am to her. I DO reach out, but have more of a "holding my breath" demeanor than she does

Time to extrapolate on TRUST. (Do yourself a favor, and engage your wife in the planning of this adventure.)

Can you and your wife plan a trust building exercise?

I don't care if it's as small as taking turns doing the "dead man's drop" backward into each other's arms ... trusting that one will catch the other to not fall.

Or blindfolding one another (taking turns) verbally guiding one another through the local forest preserve.

Or a bigger trust building exercise. Climb a rock wall? Scuba dive using the buddy system? Geo cache as a team? Ballroom dancing?

It's OK if you're "uncomfortable," the challenge is just to do something demonstrating trust. (Preferably nothing you've done in the last 21 months.) Leave Dave Ramsey and the self-help books at home.


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely hear what you are saying and I get it. Blake so much of our journey is the same. I am nearly 20 months out now and I kinda feel that we have walked this path side-by-side.

I feel more broken then your average BS

Me too. I think all of us who have really heavy FOO issues to deal with probably feel this way. If you start this process with a cart-load of undealt with FOO issues, you are kind of starting off on the back-foot and I personally believe that does impact on how "easily" (I use the term loosely as none of this is easy for anyone!) and
quickly we heal.

Sorry, don't know how I posted this before I was done

[This message edited by ItsaClimb at 1:33 PM, March 31st (Monday)]


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1024 | Registered: Oct 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all.

LA44.....I am very sorry. I mistakenly thought alcohol was a part of your past. I am sorry for my mistake. Thank you for understanding.

I get the real sense I need to DO more with the growth I am feeling.

The conferences I attended really spoke of DOING.....I have been a "doer" most if my life......I know I can do it.

Your support is helping me get up and go.

Thanks!

God is with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Itsaclimb)))

Peace


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear what you are saying and I get it. Blake so much of our journey is the same. I am nearly 20 months out now and I kinda feel that we have walked this path side-by-side. Generally I think you are way ahead of me, but I am trying to quit viewing this as a race to the finish

I feel more broken then your average BS

I wonder if me feeling more broken than many SI BS's is a gender-issue?

Personally, I don't think so.

I think all of us who have really heavy FOO issues to deal with probably feel this way. My feeling is, if you start this process with a cart-load of undealt with FOO issues, you are kind of starting off on the back-foot and I personally believe it's those FOO issues, not gender, that has an impact on how "easily" (I use the term loosely as none of this is easy for anyone!) and quickly we heal. So IMHO it's perhaps harder for us and it may take us longer to heal than the "average". But on the upside, at least we are NOW dealing with all those FOO issues!

I have learnt (most the time!) not to compare myself to other BSs. Some people seem to be really gifted at dealing with this stuff. I used to read posts (sometimes even your posts!) and get all down on myself....thinking "how come xxx is doing so well, handling all this so brilliantly?? Why can't I do that? Why am I so pathetic? Why am I still angry/sad/catatonic??" It would drive me mad. The thing is we are all unique, our situations, although similar in many ways, are still unique when you come down to is. There are SO many variables. And the truth of the matter is that the person who posts a very positive post today may be very down tomorrow... it's the nature of the beast we are dealing with. I find that I do far better when I plod along at my own pace and take what I can use from posts, but keep from judging myself or comparing.

Pre-A I was very quick to express a THOUGHT or JUDGEMENT....but I now realize I was having trouble really feeling and expressing those feelings
.

You actually brought this to my attention quite a while back when you did a post about thinking rather than feeling. I had a "light-bulb moment" when I read that. I've given it a lot of thought since then and I think this is a huge factor. Not sure about your situation, but I can trace this issue back to the abandonment in my childhood. I think the pain I was dealing with was overwhelming, so I dealt with it by learning to think rather than feel. I honestly believe this has played a huge role in delaying my healing from the infidelity.

Which brings me to the next point I want to make:

I also believe one of the reasons I felt it necessary to get the details of my wifes affair and to do things like sit in the driveway of that remote farm house where the sex took place was so that I could NOT turn away from it. I had to make it REAL and UNAVOIDABLE.

Did this ^^^ work for you Blake? I tried to do the same thing. I got my husband to describe graphically all the gory details of the affair. I made him drive me to her house and park in the driveway, so I could look at "ground zero" and imagine what they did there. It didn't help... I tried to imagine them there, I tried to feel something... nothing, nada, zilch. At the time I somehow thought it worked, I thought "well now I have made it real to me, I have seen the place it happened, I know exactly what happened there, I am dealing with it" In retrospect it didn't make me deal with it, it didn't make it more real. I somehow managed to seal off my emotions even while I was there.

Even now, 20 months out. I have waves of overwhelming pain sometimes, but they are short-lived, what I feel most of is still anger and sometimes depression. I still spend way to much time thinking, thinking, thinking... analysing, reading, learning, always doing something, but not properly FEELING the pain.... It seems that, for me, 35+ years of avoiding feeling by thinking is hard to unlearn. I am working on it, but it's still very much a work-in-progress. It's a strange dynamic, because on the one hand I want to be healed, I want to be over the pain... on the other hand I am willing myself to feel the pain, embrace it even, because without the pain I don't think I will ever heal.

I understand how you are feeling blake. It is unnerving to be this far out and to go through a period of being so down and not-yet-healed-enough but in my experience these stages come and go. Today you will be feeling like this and then a little further down the road you will see some progress and you will feel positive. TIME. Time and work seems to be the key.

{{blakesteele}}


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1024 | Registered: Oct 2012
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need a 2x4.....because I feel more broken then your average BS and that is a stumbling block for me.

There are plenty of broken BS's. Don't feel as though you have cornered the market....move on over. Plenty of broken and crazy to go around


But I see many more BS's display the ability to work and heal on their trauma caused by their spouses affair.....and able to keep from getting too focused on their own brokenness.

I think you are mistaken here. In order to create a healthy marriage you need 2 healthy people. BS's that carry FOO issues do a disservice to themselves, their WS's and their relationship if the healing doesn't go beyond the affair.

Affairs are a piece of the WS's dysfunction. I, as a BS, expect my spouse to look into their issues if they are going to learn to R with me. I want the healthiest possible spouse making my new foundation with me. Don't you think the WS deserves that as well? You owe it to yourself to heal from your childhood.

Fixing the broken is what I beg BS's to do.

IMO there is no other way.

It doesn't happen overnight, I had tons of issues.

The past year has shown me significant growth and healing....and we are talking 6-7 years out.

Stay on track, heal yourself, let your wife heal her issues. Together you will be better able to come together and create a new marriage.

The guilt you have about "who you were" will fade.


I am concerned that I am the limiting factor to the speed in which R is able to take place.

I am not sure who told you where you "should" be ....

Ignore others rate of healing. We are all on different paths. You don't need to compare with others to know you are doing ok...you are doing ok because you are still working and healing...

I get why I don't trust my wife.....I think my own brokenness, and how for decades it remained hidden, is what I need to unlock.

You don't trust your wife because she had an affair, it isn't time for you to trust her yet.

Keep your issues separate from hers....you are not responsible for anyone or anything except you. I sometimes think all of your self-evaluation is a way to somehow incorporate ownership of her affair.

Our broken does not define us. We have the ability to change it.

Slow and steady...

[This message edited by karmahappens at 2:08 PM, March 31st (Monday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3850 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did this ^^^ work for you Blake?

Yes Itsaclimb....me sitting in this driveway looking at the house (specifically imagining the gettiness of them meetig in the drive and then rushing into the room via the back door to have unprotected teenage like sex) helped me to accept that it did happen.

It took this repeated experience for me to stay in touch with the hurt and pain. As insane as it sounds.....there were days that I absolutely could not accept that it actually happened. God help me, I was that weak....that unaware....that niave. My own brother sat in awe and watched me....confused could not begin to describe what he felt as he tried to connect and support me (he has the same intimacy blocking coping skills as I do, and they affect our relationship in similar ways as they do with a spouse...thats the kicker about coping skills, they are "non-selective" in nature....they affect ALL relationships.).

I think it like standing next to a bon fire. If I go back in the cabin I kinda remember their was a fire out there but the chill in the cabin has me wondering just how warm I was standing close to the fire.....begin to wonder just how much of a fire there was. A small romantic fire or a barn-burner.

I was in weekly IC therapy at the same time....we would go over and over what I felt. So perhaps this was what helped me feel this and accept it.

You talk about not being able to feel anything when you did it....like you were numb.

I was numb upon my DD too...think that is pretty common. My therapist at the time said it was normal and is a PTSD symptom. She warned me that I had much work to do to dissolve that numbness so that the pain could come to the surface and I could process this.

She was right!!!!

You make excellent points about how you spent your lifetime since childhood avoiding feeling those most intimate pains.

Our therapy today touched on how we both did this for decades....avoiding our feelings, avoided being vulnerable. Expanding out.....we both chose things that kept a certain independence within us. When we did reach for something more we reached co-dependently.....its all we could do since we were grossly unaware of the scars already in placd on our hearts. Now our mission is to heal those scars and reach out constructively to live interdependently with each other....something we have never really done with anyone before. Even our parental relationships were not interdependent in nature. So not only did we NOT witness a healthy marital relationship growing up, I think our parent-child relationships were very much NOT inter-dependent in nature. Not faulting our Moms....they did the best they could and got into survival mode upon their D's. They had to try and raise kids on their own with not much skill sets to market...resulting in low paying jobs and no money for therapy of their own. They coped with parenting.

So now we have to work on doing something we stopped doing when we were about 12-14 years old.

Yes, my porn scarred my wifes heart (mine too). My wifes affair scarred my heart (hers too). But the real culprit is the scarring our hearts endured as children. Not sure if you can say the porn\adultery scars are secondary...but the initial scarring was what limited our intimacy from the beginning. And "from the beginning" I mean since age 12-14.


I have always wondered why I stopped short of full on sex with my girlfriends in highschool....I had plenty of skin to skin feeling but always stopped before reaching orgasms with the girls.

I think two things.....

First, God helped me from doing that.

Second, I think my own intimacy issues kept me from doing that. Sexual intimacy is some of hte very deepest acts of intimacy one can do. I believe I had a strong resistence to this even as a hormone crazed boy.....and I believe this was because of my fear of being hurt again. Like if I stopped short of full on sex I could not get hurt as bad.

Then I meet my wife.....while I had intimacy blockers in place since highschool, my wife was different. I did have sex with her before we married, but I never feared it.....I desired it. I loved her as best as I could, more than any other girl to date. But I could only be as intimate as I could be. I beleive she operated in much the same fashion.


I think this cycle also played into us waiting to have children. about 5 years into our M my wife indicated she would like to start a family....6 years in I agreed....7 years in we concieved our first child.

While some of this can be chalked up to maturing, there is a component of intimacy here that we both had to attain before we agreed on children.

Sooooo.........can our hearts be healed so that they can generate a healthy bond?

I believe so. Our current therapist thinks so.


I really think Sisoon is right.....I need to man-up and take that step of faith that I can do what I NOW know I need to do.

I very much appreciate your kind words of encouragement.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:10 PM, March 31st (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happiness is like a butterfly the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder - Henry David Thoreau.

Do not force youself or expect yourself to be something you are not yet. Just learn and live and allow yourself to arrive there in time.

Control is not the best method.

Good luck blakesteele.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((karmahappens and Still-living)))

Karma....thank you.

The codependent thing is what concerns me too....you are wise to warn me from taking my introspection into owning my wifes affair.

Our current counselor is christian-based. I like her style. It is biblical that the man is the leader. NOT dictator type of leader, servant-type of leadership. We are exploring how I led my wife in our M...which is NOT leading her to adultery. I do believe that my wife would have chosen adultery with or without my leadership....but their is merit to my use of porn hurting our marriage. It did remove growth-opportunities for me and/or my wife. Even though my wife used it and watched it with me, I did bring it into our M.

NOW, what if I chose not to use porn at an early age? Grew up without it? Choosing instead, to live a life with sexual integrity? The million dollar question. I think there is a case to be made that we would never have been married in the first place.....because I would have been a man who required real, intimate bonding. And this would scare the hell out of my wife at that time. She was very much "I want children, but not sure I ever want a husband" type of a woman." I was like "cool a girl that is open to surface level intimacy" (knew porn was a part of my life during dating). See how our own brokenness with regards to intimacy worked so well together?

So any change in the past could have probhibited our M from ever taking place.

I do believe God brings two people together. I also believe adultery can rip that union apart at the seams. Which is what happens to some and God understands that.

If I did not use porn and my wife and I never M, could I have avoided the pain of adultery and her the pain of being married to a man that uses porn? Possibly.

But then how would we have had the opportunity to mature what was immature in us?

It appears everyone has something that needs matured within them.

I am grateful that I have this opportunity to grow, that I am married to my wife, that I have two healthy daughters with her...and many more blessings.

I am also grateful we do not have STD's or another child being concieved through her A.

I thank God for what I have. However, I still have some regrets over what I wasted over the years.


And those regrets are what I need to work on for myself to become healthier.


Its just that some of what I have learned, particularly in the past 3-4 months seem sooooo easy to get!

I feel foolish for having missed this.....


Thank you for your kind support....makes me feel less foolish.

I know, I know....I should NOT lean on others to feel better.....but I have today and you all have helped without condeming. This is a blessing to me.

Thank you.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:26 PM, March 31st (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NOW, what if I chose not to use porn and, instead, led my wife and I to more constructive bonding experiences?

Your plate is full...do not waste any time on what IF's.

Live with what is....lighten the load, deal with only your truths.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3850 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your plate is full...do not waste any time on what IF's.


Spot on karmahappens.....I did this for 2 solid days in Texas....and I LOVED it!!!!!

Those two conferences rocked!!!!!!!

I am anxious to DO WHAT WAS PRESENTED.

It is that dang self doubt because of my mis-steps of the past. I get that God wants us to do what you say....and this post is getting me to do that.....

I don't believe in coincidences....and that includes me finding and being a part of the SI community.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Topic Posts: 22
Pages: 1 · 2

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