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User Topic: Give the OW more credit
Lostinthemidst
♀ New Member
Member # 42814
Question  Posted: 6:57 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for the damage done that is...

When WH confessed he owned his actions completely. He did this, his choice. yada... Even to the point of making it seem like the OW was just dumb and played by him. I still hate the women of course and knew better... but I really looked at him and was angry like he was this pig man on the prowl.

When he gave him his letter with timeline and specific details, it really doesn't read that way to me at all. To the point where I think his Ego needs to be checked and how he is an idiot and was played. Men can be so clueless about how women operate. I don't think he wrote it with the intention of blaming her at all...I mean in the letter he doesn't talk like that at all it talks like he was in charge, but I can see her underlying actions...I see the Chase phase, and how she pretty much set out the parameters for everything (she is also M with kids) and it is like he was living her affair fantasy and not knowing it.

I guess I am wondering if I am just trying to make myself feel better about it all, or if it is true. Before being in this situation I of course was all smug and thought anyone who stays with a cheater is an idiot, and also thought anyone who blames the other women is an idiot...but as I go through this experience I am starting to see how all of this really plays out in reality.


ME: BW 35
HIM: WH 41
1 year EA/PA with COW
D-Day: November 23 2013
Married 11 years
3 kids
working our way towards R waiting for the Trickle to end...

Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2014
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is taking responsibility for his actions because he IS responsible.

There are always games played, motives on both sides. I wouldn't make either of them a victim. They both walked into the A with their eyes wide open.

Let him be responsible, it will serve you well if you continue in R.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3800 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Lostinthemidst
♀ New Member
Member # 42814
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh yes he IS responsible, I was not trying to get him off the hook...just trying to see the whole picture now that I have it. I wouldn't tell him my thoughts on this!


ME: BW 35
HIM: WH 41
1 year EA/PA with COW
D-Day: November 23 2013
Married 11 years
3 kids
working our way towards R waiting for the Trickle to end...

Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2014
TheBestMe
♀ Member
Member # 39476
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((KarmaHappens)) Believe me I am not your stalker. Oh maybe I am.

There are always games played, motives on both sides. I wouldn't make either of them a victim. They both walked into the A with their eyes wide open.

Once again you nailed it^^^^!


ME Doing Better
WH Trying As Best He Can
Married 23 years
Status: Working towards friendship
D Day #1 - 2007 My gut told me
D Day #2 - 2010 His D told me
D Day #3 - 1/11/2013 OW Confirmed
LTA 7 years

Both feet pointed forward; positive


Posts: 426 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Inner Peace
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostinthemidst, I get what you are saying, totally. I have been unbelievably angry with the OW since DDay, mostly because not only did she know my H was married with children but because she pretended she was my friend. I even caught the EA just a week in - texts only (she was out of state the whole time, so I know that) and said something to her, and she gave me a big speech about just trying to be his friend, needing someone to talk to, blah blah blah

Make no mistake HE owns what he did. Not ME, not the OW...HIM. There should have been nothing anyone could say or do that would get him to make the decisions he did. He gets it. He owns it. He knows that I don't blame her for HIM lying to me, or cheating on me, or hurting me. That doesn't mean she isn't a lying, manipulative, skank, who btw, continued to stalk him for months after DDay, in public.

My husband to, thought that he was the one more "in control" of things. Found out on DDay she had used some ridiculous lies about her life to manipulate his feelings, make him feel like they had things in common, and make him feel like he was her savior.

Not only was he not in control, he was SO STUPID. We found out that she told the lies on DDay because I told her girlfriend, and the girlfriend laughed her ass off. When I repeated the lies out loud ( in my best sexy, poor me, you are SO wonderful, skank voice) to my H, the expression on his face was like, "oh gosh, that does sound ridiculous. I feel like an idiot." GOOD!

Some of the whoppers were "no one knows we are in a lesbian relationship."" I can't even have a real life."" All her family thinks we are roommates."" her mother is constantly asking her why she doesn't have a boyfriend." "Even her kids (20, 16, and 14) don't know." Seriously?! and he bought that shit?!

The truth - She and her GF have lived together for 8 years, since she was 19( he knew this), they sleep in the same bedroom (she told my H 2 beds ) Her girlfriend is very openly gay. They go to gay bars. They went on vacation while the affair was going on WITH her girlfriends mother and aunt, and of course shared a bed.

Also she told him a very traumatic sob story about how at 18 she was beaten and raped by a boyfriend, and that's when she became a lesbian. NEVER HAPPENED! Made him think that she was only able to be with a man because it was HIM. He was HURT when he found out she lied to him. I say, if you lay down with pigs, don't be surprised if you get up dirty.


AND found out several months later that she had a previous affair with another older married man with kids! That made the H feel even more like an idiot.


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 125 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I see what you are saying. My H also takes 100% responsibility for his actions, does not like to think he was manipulated in any way -- yet, when he describes certain things, it is clear that he was.

She admitted having feelings for him for years? Wanted to all of a sudden to do triathlons like him? Started taking the same exercise classes as him? When I called her from his phone one time, programmed the number into hers, and gave him a "special" ring tone of a song she had sung while he played guitar one time? Tried to keep email interchanges with him going past the initial point for the contact? Tracked the weather of places he traveled on her iPhone? (All of this is before the affair started, mind you - and done while she fostered a relationship with our family.)

So, innocent victim bumbling into an affair? Um -- no. Did my H manipulate? I don't know. But, he was not a predator - and he had zero "feelings" for her before she finally got one of those email conversations going non-stop. Yes, he started the email that time -- about a sports injury she had, that is true. But, she was sitting there, waiting -- like she had been for years. It is disgusting, and predatory, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think her H should know, because I know she has painted herself as a victim, and she was just incredibly conniving, and I don't even know if she realizes it.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 7:43 AM, March 21st (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1936 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Suspicious  Posted: 7:40 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our situation played out the same way, Lostinthemidst. FWH took full responsibility for the affair. Said they both pursued each other. I didn't even hate the OW at first. Not until more details came out.

Yes, FWH walked into the affair with eyes wide open. However, he was manipulated and pursued for years, but as you point out, he is

so clueless about how women operate
. He didn't see it. He thinks he was the one who was in charge. He thought he was so smart with his "rules" for the affair. The reality is, even though OW is not very intelligent, she is very smart in manipulating men. She made sure he knew that any time he was ready to start an affair, all he had to do was let her know. It took her 3-4 years to get him, but it worked. She made herself (legs open) available 24/7 with no effort on FWH's part.

The truth is, if OW didn't make herself so available and blatantly let him know, FWH would not have had an affair. He is just that fucking lazy when it comes to relationships.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9628 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The way I see it, in my situation, OW knew exactly what she was doing and she made a huge play for my fWH. BUT if his boundaries had been in place, if his moral code had been what it should have been, if he had honoured his wedding vows like he should have, if he had put wife and family ahead of his own selfish desires... well then there wouldn't have been an A. OW didn't rape him. She was available (obviously!) but no-one forced him to accept what was offered. He could have politely said no thank-you and flashed his wedding ring at her instead of his doo-dah. My fWH is 100% entirely responsible for the A. OW was just the equipment that was used to do the job.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 959 | Registered: Oct 2012
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get it too. OW in our case was extremely manipulative and H was so clueless about it before and during the A and during the few weeks of fog afterward. He believed her words but didn't look at her actions. She pretended to be my friend and H believed her that she felt "nothing but empathy" for me, all the while she was very sexually aggressive toward him, telling him that he was a great dad and divorcing me wouldn't hurt our kids ("they'll be fine"), had girls nights with me, came to my house for dinner with me and my H and her kids, invited me and H to her house for parties, talked to me weekly about her "problems" at our kids' afterschool activity, asked me to watch her children overnight (the night after she slept with my H). She also played the pity card a lot with my H--my dad is sick, I left my H bc he never touched me, I had an eating disorder, I have no money, I'm so jealous of your wife that she gets to sleep next to you...I'm sure lots of other ways too.

IDK about you, but I'd have a really hard time facing someone whose H I was trying to steal, let alone hang out with repeatedly. But I guess when you are on a recon mission for information about someone's M, you need to get close.

It took my H a while to see the truth about her and that nearly killed any chance of R. His allowing her to steamroll right over me (and him) remains one of the most difficult parts to get over.

So while he went into the A knowing it was going to be sexual right off the bat, bc she basically threw her dirty panties at him, he didn't see how we were tools in her twisted game of divide and conquer.

Even our MC said she reminds him of a pedophile, preying on a lonely kid sitting apart from the others. He was referencing the fact that our M was in a troubled place and my H was feeling lonely.

I have no trouble assigning "credit" to the skank. I wish I could put out a public service announcement warning the community about her. Only a matter of time before she tries it with another "friend's" H.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jan 2014
homewrecked2011
♀ Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OW wanted to leave her husband for 3 years. She had affairs with 2 other men I know of, but they wouldn't leave their wives to be with her and to "save" her. I know this because she was my "friend".

My XWH is a dumbass. He thought she was only after him, but in fact she "trolls" for men everywhere, tells them how awesome they are, finds out what they like sexually and then molds herself into the "right" woman for them.

OW knew exactly what she needed to leave her H ( -a big man who would put up a fight for her - according to my PI), she played my XWH like a fiddle.

Well, they have each other now and I've heard SHE isn't happy with him and thinks he's a dumbass. YEP, she should KNOW that by now.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2111 | Registered: Jan 2012
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

veronique12

You GET how I feel! The total in-your-face disrespect. The manipulation. The anger you feel because you SHARED with this POS. You opened up. You had some sort of connection with them as a person (or so you thought). And truly, when I think about it, I fell for her manipulations, just like my WH! Which pisses me off, even more!


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 125 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
Lostinthemidst
♀ New Member
Member # 42814
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your thoughts,

yes she is the one who visited him, asked to talk, etc. he agreed thought harmless, then suddenly was enjoying and craving her company.

she played the "oh this will kill my H card, I couldn't do this to him" then would leave her hotel door room cracked.

Then play victim, like you made me into this person.


Their travel stopped for a little over a month. we went on a big family vacation (which she hated) and when he got back, that is when she suddenly wanted to have sex in the workplace...upping her game to keep him interested, and of course it worked! what could be more exciting and thrilling.


That and many many other things. Of yes he is at fault, 100% to blame for not thinking of me or his family or his own character... yes he did go after her eyes open and excited, but she totally set him up...


ME: BW 35
HIM: WH 41
1 year EA/PA with COW
D-Day: November 23 2013
Married 11 years
3 kids
working our way towards R waiting for the Trickle to end...

Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2014
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shayna, of course we fell for the OW's manipulations too. Who could possibly be that messed up, right? It had to be our imaginations. In my case I got bad vibes from her right away, but I pushed them aside because they didn't match up with how I thought the world worked: "People are who they say they are. Someone couldn't be that devious to go after my H after they befriend me. My H is too good of a person to do that to me. They wouldn't do that right in front of my face."

Well, I guess I learned a lot from OW! Trust your gut, always.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jan 2014
Blindsided215
♀ New Member
Member # 42757
Angry  Posted: 9:33 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OW was on of my best friends or so I thought. I found out 5 wks ago that my husband of 13 yrs had a EA with her for almost a year. We have 2 sons that are the same age best friends we were constantly at eachother's homes. That's where she decided to start flashing him her goods..the dog didn't turn away and when she soon after texted him a pic he responded with a pic of his junk!Bastard! The sexting at it's peak was 90texts within 3hrs all at work! My dear friend and husband would text me in the morning and the take to sext in the afternoon. He ended up keeping 2 of her nude pics for 10 months. Hurts that he she was in his head for so long. Phone records don't lie eventhough people do :( WH has been TT since DD 2/15. We are in MC but I don't know if I can move past this...

Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: USA
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((blindsided)) I'm so sorry. The double betrayal is so hard.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jan 2014
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's one thing to know and accept the reality of the sitch. If you have strong evidence that the ap manipulated your WS into the A, it can be useful to incorporate that into the BS's worldview.

At the same time, healing requires focusing on oneself, and R'ing requires focusing on oneself and one's partner and M. The ow is simply a distraction, and it's important - critical - to remember that.

It's easier to heal when you underestimate the ap's responsibility than if you over-focus on the ap. We're better off giving the ap less credit than she deserves than giving her more.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10047 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, you should give the OW credit too.

Age old it takes two to tango.

But, really...she may have not been directly responsible for your marriage...But she did have a responsibility to society and to the institution of marriages/covenant to not interfere with it.

"Let no man pull asunder" is part of the marriage vows for a reason.

As far as I am concerned...God held the OW responsible, so that is good enough for me. Before, Jesus accepted our sins...it was an act punishable by death of stoning.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that as long as the FWS is taking full responsibility, it's acceptable to assign the AP their due. In my case, like so many others, she used our "marital problems" against me and for herself. (Jrazz thinks you have a drinking problem? Let's ditch work and get drunk at lunch!! See! This is the life you could have with ME!!! Fun fun fun, all the time!)

Of course FWH could have used his brain and saw this for what it was, but I will say that there were full blown manipulation tactics deployed in a sinister manner. Yeah, OW gets some credit for the fiasco.


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17248 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

two people not only exhibiting poor behaviors, but encouraging, validating and accepting those behaviors in each other.


(Jrazz thinks you have a drinking problem? Let's ditch work and get drunk at lunch!! See! This is the life you could have with ME!!! Fun fun fun, all the time!)

unfound thinks you can't afford a new truck? Let's go look at new trucks! See! I would let you buy things cause I'm not trying to control you and with me you could have anything you wanted! fun fun fun all the time...

sigh. change a few words and.....

on the same note though, he allowed it and did enough of his own encouraging. it takes two, regardless of who manipulates more or takes advantage of situations. granted if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else just as willing to participate. only strong boundaries can prevent it. without them, credit is shared equally up to the point where the WS owns their shit.

jmo.


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14844 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, March 21st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, OW was manipulative and every time WH pushed boundaries "as a joke" she showed she had none. However, she should have been able to walk up to WH naked and his only reaction should have been to just walk away.

We know there are immoral people out there, it's what we do when confronted with their actions that matters. WH loved every minute of it. He didn't even feel guilty about it. No, I don't blame her at all for the affair, that's on him. Doesn't mean I have to like or forgive her though.

[This message edited by AML04 at 9:06 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)]


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
T-13 M-9
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13.
Hopeful for R

Posts: 851 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Topic Posts: 22
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