SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There’s a thread on Reconciliation by blakesteele. He’s my BS.

It’s up to 3 pages so far.

It’s really interesting.

It describes how my BS is really, really wonderful. He is “working SO hard”, he is “posting & posting & posting”, and many “wish we had a BS like him”.

It says that I am full of shit. That I need to “fix my shit” and that I should be tested for hormonal imbalances.

It’s presence there encapsulates everything wrong with my marriage.

For the 20 years we have been together sexually, only in the past year has BH O’ed inside me. For 18 years I told him how this left me so confused and hurt. I felt inadequate. Sex was just an act, not a means of growing closer. I voiced this many, many times. BH told me it was fine, he was fine, I just needed to stop worrying about it.

I do not have a low sex drive. I very much want and desire sex. I initiate probably 30-40% of the time. At times in our marriage I have initiated just as much as he has, sometimes more. When he does initiate I usually don’t reject him. I love him and I want to be close to him.

I suggested a break in sex because it continues to be a source of emotional pain to me. I feel distant and detached from him completely during and after. And emotionally that hurts. Sometimes I think “this must be what a hooker feels like”. I suggested the break because it has been like this for years for me. I continued to push past it and just do it, hoping things would get better, hoping that by having more sex it would fix it somehow. At this point I don’t know if it’s negative association, years of hurt, my own wall, but the feeling of disconnect is still there. I was hopeful that a defined, purposeful break might “reset” something? Hell, I don’t know. I do know that what we’re doing isn’t changing anything for me.

2 different therapists, books, friends, family – ALL tell me that I need to let him in, open myself up to him, share my feelings, fears, thoughts, emotions and that will lead to an intimacy that is reflected in our marriage bed.

2 different therapists, books, friends, family – ALL tell him that he needs to create a safe space for me to share my feelings. That when I share my deepest fears or hurts it is a sign of trust and vulnerability and he should guard them and show me they are safe with him and that he understands me.

So 2 nights ago I suggest that maybe a break or “fast” from sex would help.

1.5 hours later I ask to put the discussion on hold until morning. I don’t have a “strategy” in place which he has demanded nor do I have lots of research or case studies to back up what I’m asking for. I asked from a place of hurt and loneliness. From someone searching for answers and desperate to improve things. Instead I leave the conversation feeling condemned and fed up.

3 hours later it is a topic on SI.

8 hours later it has 40 responses, most of which condemn me for being a sexless, bullshitting WS.

I do not care what perfect strangers have to say about me. I am learning to own my feelings, to protect my emotions from others who would say they are wrong. I am learning to give myself a voice in ways I didn’t know I could. I am FIGHTING for my feelings to be a part of this marriage. I am FIGHTING like hell for a chance to be heard and understood. To not be emotionally railroaded or emotionally condemned.

I do care that my feelings aren't valued by my BH. Strangers or not, anonymous internet or not, they are MY feelings. I shared them with MY husband. I trusted him to listen to me, to hear me, try to understand my hurt, to show me that he would guard them and that we would work together to do things to strengthen our marriage. I care that while I am doing my part in opening up and taking risks in saying things that are hard to say, that could cause fights – he is not doing his part.

I am repeatedly criticized for not sharing my feelings. For not opening up and telling him my emotions. I’m told I’m bad, bad, BAD for being so closed off.

Do you know what I am realizing? I DO share my feelings, I DO open up.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me.

I do not hate SI for the support it offers people, including BH and me. But I hate SI for being another tool for my BH to tromp on my feelings instead of guarding them. I hate it for being a place that helps him dismiss and condemn the very feelings he supposedly wants to treasure.

I do not hate sex for the act or the pleasure or the supposed closeness it can bring. I hate it for being another way I’m failing. I hate it for being the biggest sign of how very far BH and I are from each other.

I'm not supposed to reply on the WS threads, but I want to give you a hug:

((((((GraceRunner))))))

SadinNC...

The only time a BS can't reply in this forum is if its a thread using the Red stop sign icon.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:30 AM, March 6th (Thursday)]

((Gracerunner))

BS here and no stop sign….

Hugs! And nice to meet you, finally.

I am sorry for your pain. I can empathize a bit as I, too, feel my WH does not hear me or listen to me. It really does hurt and there are time that I look at him and wonder if he will ever hear me and understand.

I have told blakesteele that he doesn't state your feelings in his posts and, although I understand it, it makes it really hard to give him accurate opinions. We are all guessing at your thoughts which is not fair. I am sorry if I hurt you.

Surely, the never O'ing inside you, would be hurtful. I can feel your pain.

Thank you for coming to SI and for posting. We all care for Blakesteele and for you as well…. You are one of the couples that we are all routing for.

Thank you for clarifying that the sex is a source of emotional pain for you and that after you feel empty, like a prostitute. That statement alone says that there must be deeper things at play, for both of you, than just needing a hormone screening or bit of foreplay.

When there are two members who are married on SI, some have found it helpful not to read each other's posts. I am glad you are here and hope you will continue to post. No one thinks you are bad. You are human like the rest of us and now we can support you as well.

Hugs!

I am sorry, GraceRunner, it sounds as though you are really distraught right now. I can understand why.

I am someone who posted on your BH's thread. I didn't say anything negative about you. Many others didn't either, but I can understand how if even one person sounds negative about you how it may color what the other response's look like.

I do have negative feelings about the sexual fast. I see where you are coming from when you mentioned it to your BH. I just don't feel this is going to promote sexual intimacy. That is why I made the suggestions I did. I feel like you both need to "woo" each other. Maybe not have intercourse, but be sexual. KWIM?

How was Retrouvaille for you? If there is anything that can bring you closer and knock down walls, I feel it is Retrouvaille. However, it doesn't sound like it worked in that way for you.

Yes, the problem with SI is that we oftentimes only read one side of the "story". We can only give support and advice on what is being posted. We have no way of knowing how the other spouse (or people) maybe feeling or their perspective.

FWIW, I feel you have some very valid concerns here. I don't know how you are going to get over your feeling of disconnection. Are you in IC?

Another BS here.

Your BH sounds like my own father. My mom cheated and even though he forgave her he's made her life hard ever since. Not valuing her feelings and making her feel stupid and small. What kind of R is that if a WS is truely remorseful but a BS feels like they can do or say what they want because they feel it will never be worse then whatever a WS did.

Sorry you're going through this. I hope you can both work through the pain and have a stronger marriage because of this.

(((HUGS)))

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 10:41 AM, March 6th (Thursday)]

(((Gracerunner)))

SI is a tricky thing. We almost never do a good job of getting the whole story out, and that means that there are going to be a lot of responses biased towards limited information.

Another complicated aspect is that if members are triggering due to the topic, their response is likely to have a more judgmental tone.

I sometimes come here to vent about an interaction that Crazz and I have had, only to realize that I feel really defensive about some of the responders solutions or assumptions, and it's my fault because I'm not painting a big enough picture.

I read blakesteele's original post, and it sounded like he was trying to take ownership for some of your feelings and then asking if other members have had experience with this.

It's been MY experience that a FWS asking to step away from physical intimacy has been a big trigger for many here, and may not make the best group conversation. I want to encourage you two to seek out a third party that you trust(therapist, clergy, doctor) to get your feelings out and help steer your interactions to a healing place for both of you.

Keep sharing your feelings with him, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Open dialog is critical in any marriage and you are entitled to your feelings as well. To me, it sounds like he is trying to listen. I'd tell him that the responses to his posts sound hurtful because you feel misunderstood. Hopefully he's ok with working directly with you through this. I think he will be, as long as he feels like you are trying to meet him.

Hey sweetie, another BS here. I don't reply to many of Blake's posts, but I read them.

My husband is a SA in recovery. In addition to his affairs, he spent years lost in porn and compulsive masturbation.

That kills sexual intimacy. I know exactly what it feels like to feel lime a prostitute, a receptacle. To be used for sex, but know I could be anyone.

Actually in porn recovery programs a sexual fasting is highly recommended. If I remember correctly, he's read every man's battle? Or done a weekend work shop? If not, encourage it. They recommend an abstinence period. To rebuild intimacy WITHOUT sex.

I also know what it feels like to not have your husband finish inside of you. It's killed me, emotionally. He became so desensitized he couldn't with out visual stimulation, or dirty talk. Which cheapened me more.

I understand completely. PM me if you need to talk more.

(((GR))))

I haven't read your BH's thread but I feel for you, it sounds like a difficult situation.

I think sometimes BS forget that they need to listen to their WS pain, fears and worries too.

It takes two people to R. You cannot sacrifice yourself to make R possible. Even if you are the WS you are still a person with feelings and needs.

Can you show this thread to Blakesteele? He obviously finds a lot of comfort on SI, perhaps he would hear you better through the words in your thread?

Hi,

No stop sign, so I hope it's okay that I respond.

H and I have had sexual problems throughout our M. He is SA, with porn being the main addiction. For us, we had to take a break while he got sober. That's what was right for us. No one can tell you what's right for you two though.

H has never been able to O with me alone. Ever. It's part of his sexual problem, which he is still working on. I too felt distant whenever we had sex, so I eventually stopped wanting to do it. He was pursuing other things and I felt pushed away. We made up these stories that I had a low drive, he had a high one. I began to believe in all these lies. It was a mess. We were in a completely sexless marriage for years.

I went to read your BH's thread before responding. I hope it's okay that I mention God, since he spoke about it. My H went from being Athiest, to learning to turn things over to God. I too was looking everywhere, trying to figure everything out. H patiently went on with his healing, waiting to see what I would eventually do.

I have joined him. I look to him now, and as much as I can, I try to turn things over to God. When I finally did that, things changed dramatically. Sex is starting to take its rightful place. It's not a huge issue, but just one more way to express the connection we share.

Maybe it would help to ask God if this break would help or hinder the healing process?

{{{hugs}}}

I am relatively new here, but I believe your H is recovering from a porn "problem" - not sure if you or he uses the term addiction or not.

My h is a recovering SA/PA. I can absolutely relate to your description of cold sex. For many years, it felt as if h was merely using me as a masturbatory tool. Since he had never been able to experience sex as a shared intimacy, he was completely unable to hear me when I would express frustration about our sex life. He couldn't listen to or hear me because I was speaking a language he had never learned.

For years, he was less and less able to achieve O through normal intercourse. Regardless of the whys, I felt disconnected from him, especially during sex, and horrible about my own desirability. It wears you down!

There is something called sexual reintegration therapy, that can help couples rebuild (or build for the first time) healthy intimacy and a healthy sexual relationship. Our CSAT told us that would be enormously helpful...down the road.

But first, h needed to reboot his nervous system around sexual response. In order to do that, he needs to be completely abstinent (no sex, fantasy, masturbation, nada) for a minimum of 60 days, and 6 months was recommended.

I admire your innate ability to figure out that you need to take a break and reboot. Many, many, many "experts" would give you the same advice you knew automatically for yourself. I'm sorry that BS wasn't able to hear how this was not a ploy to stay distant, but rather a plea for the positive changes you long for. Porn/sex addiction is really the result of a profound intimacy issue/disorder. Clearly, you are in pain and suffering from the lack of intimacy in your physical relationship, which causes all sorts of horrible feelings.

I'm so sorry you are feeling ganged up on and that you haven't been heard by the person who you need the most to hear you.

I can't send pm yet but I know this rodeo well so please feel free to reach out to me if you think it could help.

Again, many hugs!

Grace-

I think you bring up a good point, that although the internet is fairly anonymous, perhaps there are shared pieces of a person's heart that should be for one person's ears only.

Many BS's begin here in a horrible place. Bewildered, as hurt as never experienced before, and grabbing at the life raft that SI provides. BS's initially share everything, because here's a venue with lots of people experiencing the same emotions and predicaments. Much of the pain involves intimate subject matter too difficult to bring up with people IRL. But when a couple chooses to try to R, and trust and vulnerability and specialness become headline issues, maybe permission should be asked before sharing with the SI community, or even therapists.

Blake is a big sharer. He posts a lot. I assume he does this to sift through all the feedback he receives from his posts. Uses it to analyze and look at his sitch from fresh perspectives. And since you shared that until the last year he never orgasmed inside of you (whatever that is all about), it seems that you recognize that he is okay with sharing private 'stuff' in a public place, although anonymous. Since you feel differently, he should respect that.

Also, I'd recommend looking for a S-Anon group in your area. You'd find a lot of support and resources there. It can be very valuable, even if Blake doesn't go to a SA group.

Since I'm allowed to respond, I will.

8 hours later it has 40 responses, most of which condemn me for being a sexless, bullshitting WS.

OUCH. That has got to hurt. You have now spoken up for yourself. I think you needed to do that. For yourself - and for your H to see. Nobody else matters, frankly.

I am FIGHTING for my feelings to be a part of this marriage. I am FIGHTING like hell for a chance to be heard and understood.

Maybe writing them down like this is the best way to communicate with him about your relationship right now. Some people (and I am one of them) are able to express themselves better when they write. If your H likes this kind of communication, it might help. Try a notebook at home with him.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I think you just got his attention.

It sound like the two of you really want to make this work. I am rooting for you guys!!!

Another BS here. I've read some of your H's thread but to be honest I felt that everything, including yourself,is being over-analysed to the nth degree and I gave up. I think someone else suggested he just relax and stop doing this, to which I concur. It's as if he's watching your every move. The posts made me feel very uncomfortable, and I can sympathise with :-

"I am repeatedly criticized for not sharing my feelings. For not opening up and telling him my emotions. I’m told I’m bad, bad, BAD for being so closed off.

Do you know what I am realizing? I DO share my feelings, I DO open up.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me."

If that's the case that's some tough shit to take.

My H thought I had a low sex drive too, in fact I was starting to wonder if I had. But the last few years where we've relaxed and enjoyed each others' company, sex happens with no effort. There's no issue there any more, I enjoy it with him now that we're in a good place in the rest of our lives, it's like the icing on the cake after a good day. I enjoy it because there's no pressure, no asking why we weren't doing it more often. I can imagine how hurtful it would be if your H never used to O inside you, for him to tell you it was fine and forget it means he wasn't listening to you.

"I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me." Judging from this, a break from SI might be as valuable if not more so than a break from sex.

((((GraceRunner)))

Welcome, and I am simply going to ditto what Kelaney said.

There needs to be a better building of the emotional intimacy for you, it sounds like. Me, too , btw. Sexual intimacy, for me, needs to be an extension of the emotional intimacy that already exists. And if you are being vulnerable and explaining behavior to him that is hurtful (O'ing outside) and he disregards it, I would not be feeling the emotional connection either, if I were you.

We have an MC who specializes in treating recovering SA's and their spouses. Maybe working that route could help you both.

I don't really know your whole story either

BrokenButTrying: I think sometimes BS forget that they need to listen to their WS pain, fears and worries too.

This really rings true for me. One of our biggest steps in R was when I realized my H was hurting too. Now that didn't happen immediately, but when I realized he was hurting and really doing the work he needed to do, my being able to show empathy and support him through the ugliness was a major step in our healing.

((((GR))))

Everything you stated, I could actually state myself on the sex part and not being listened to.

I hope this all changes for you two. We are all cheering you on!

I think it took great courage for you to post your feeling here and now you have been heard and I pray he HEARD YOU!

Another BS here, I just want to send you huge hug (((gracerunner))) You two really are a couple I am totally rooting for!

You both seem to be trying so hard, to truly care for each other and you seem lovely people - both of you!

Hopefully reading each other's posts may help. I often post stuff that is going on in my head and later I get my fwh to read them, sometimes it must sting but he likes to keep up with how I am really doing and my posts give a starting point for a chat. I also share some relevant threads I see with him. It really helps us BUT fhw doesn't post anymore. He tried a couple of times and it's just not his thing, he hates writing things out cos he always comes across wrong, even when I read his posts I think oops you didn't mean to say that, it sounds sooo wrong, but there I go again, off on a tangent. My point is he got some flack too for not caring enough to post, tbh he has been too busy showing me he loves me and cos he works long hours I would rather his time go on me, he is still doing the work but with me instead of on here. Although he had read the healing library from cover to cover.

Sometimes people see things from only one side, or from their perspective and experiences but it can be hard to give, or get, a full picture.

I can imagine how you feel. I have never been against porn until his affair, as long as I didn't see him or what he was looking at I didn't worry, even used it myself occasionally but fwh was really into it. When we met he still had pics from mucky mags up on his bedroom wall, he still lived at home, and that REALLY bothered me cos I couldn't turn a blind eye to it. Trying to make love to your new boyfriend surrounded by those images ( I was 17) drove me to distraction and I still feel inferior now, but that's my issue tbf. I 'accidentally' ripped one pic off the wall with my foot once - oops. I was more bothered by his stash of porn then but later when I developed problems of my own due to medication I stopped caring and just let porn do my job for me so to speak. Really not healthy. The affair followed after years of this.

When I finally got the medical profession to listen and change my meds, we found we had a problem. He had more and more difficulty o'ing. I did some research and read up on 'the death grip' grasping too firmly while masturbating. I know it's not the same as your situation but after his A I was devastated when he couldn't finish with me.

After the A he had already given up porn altogether off his own back. After seeing how cheap and nasty sex can be with the wrong person he just went right off it. Me too tbh. I couldn't look at it without imagining him with his ow. After the A the last thing i wanted him doing was looking at other women like that. So we talked and he decided to try giving up masturbation too and found he didn't need it at all. Lo and behold and the problem was fixed. I know I wasn't the problem as I have never given birth naturally and - sorry if tmi - but during exams nurses/dr's have pointed this fact out to me when they struggle a bit with me during exams, so I know there was nothing wrong with me. It was purely his death grip from years of practice !

This is probably all waffle, I am doing two things at once lol I just wanted you to know you have been heard and we do understand.

Take care

GraceRunner, I haven't read your husband's thread.

I can relate to the O situation you mentioned. It was linked to years of porn use, which your husband has also admitted to. I give him credit for seeing he had a problem and wanting to correct it. Plus, for not accepting PM's from female SI members. IMO, that's smart.

He's popular on SI and has quite a lot of 'admirers'. You sound resentful and rightfully so, with years of not feeling intimacy. It must also sting to have females in particular on SI who are quick to praise your husband. I know when I was resentful of my husband, it seemed like the world was telling me how awesome he was and that just frustrated me even more.

I was quick to take the blame for our sex-life and for a lot of other things. I was unaware of my husband's 20 year porn addiction. I had a lot of resentment once I realized that, because instead of me being the problem, a huge part should have fallen on him too. As is often the case in any relationship. But it also explained a lot and nice to know that it wasn't all on me or even about me.

I also have walls (high ones) that I had to work on. We both had intimacy problems, I just voiced more concerns and was dismissed and allowed myself to be silenced and take the blame. I was angry at myself for allowing that to happen too. There is a lot of anger and resentment and shame to work through on both sides of the fence and it doesn't happen over night.

It's hard to be sexual with someone you've lived with for a long time and you feel emotionally disconnected from, or when you feel not being listened to or respected or just being used. It becomes drudgery and a task.

Building the emotional connection and communication helps the sexual stuff. Coming clean and talking about our feelings in depth, plus most importantly really listening to each other and not withholding secrets has helped my husband and I greatly. Our whole relationship, including the sexual aspects have transformed.

Keep talking, especially about your sex-life. Not just what is not working with it.

There is nothing I've posted on SI that I didn't either discuss first with my husband or that him and I haven't already discussed. It's not a secret. Maybe you both need to discuss your boundaries as far as SI goes.

Good luck with everything.

[This message edited by DixieD at 12:24 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]