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User Topic: Just learned after 10 years about what my wife did.
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Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm amazed there's any debate that this was cheating. The story plays out as standard operating procedure for a WS.

She's unhappy in the relationship. She thought it was over but failed to end things before acting on that. She fucked another man and then lied about it for a decade. She has reconstructed the relationship history as a marital rewrite. She kept mementos of their affair and humiliated her own husband.

The list goes on. Her choice of plays from the WS handbook are stunningly common and banal.

To that end, Stu, this wasn't an ALPHA MALE that she slept with. If such a fallacious entity were to actually exist, said ALPHA MALE wouldn't hide like a chickenshit and talk shit from the shadows. That's the kind of nonsense the craven are about. Not things we as a society associate with leaders and impressive people.

I dunno if you've been directed to them but these are a couple of great posts for folks new to this shit:

Tactical primer -

Before you say Reconcile -

Hang in there man. You will be okay.

"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7565 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you, Stu. And I'm glad to see you work through all of this. It's okay to be emotional. And I understand the mind movies. I'm not even a year away from my DDay yet (almost, but not quite). My X would wait until I was asleep and then sneak over to OW house and do all sorts of things that I refused to do because I found them degrading. I tell you this just so you know that I relate. It took me many months to get past the stage you are in now. And one of the things that helped me the most was going into IC where I had a safe space to process everything.

We all have different ways of conceptualizing our betrayals and even the broader questions of what constitutes fidelity and how to understand our own sexuality. You've explained why the bodily contact has so much symbolic meaning to you. To someone else (me, in this case), I view the world in a slightly different way. Personally, I didn't see my X's sexual contact with OW as symbolic. To me, the systematic nature of the betrayal as a whole was much more meaningful to me. But that was just me. Again, not saying the way you view this is wrong. But I think when something is so vivid for you, it's a sign that it's something for you to explore. It has meaning.

I remember on DDay saying to X that I couldn't believe he let another woman see him naked. A minor point, I suppose, given what else they did together. But I explained to him that that was something that was just supposed to be between us. Something sacred we shared. What you have described is similar. Again, I understand.

Gently, I would still say that the difficulties you have had communicating with your wife and the struggle it is for you right now to just get through the day suggest to me that seeking some help from a therapist might not be a bad idea. My therapist helped me learn ways to calm down, to push the mind movies out of my mind, to cope, to adjust to my new reality. This has a way of rewiring your whole brain. I can also remember waking up in the middle of the night having panic attacks thinking that I was living a nightmare and I didn't know how to see myself through it. The things that helped me were to reach out, to keep talking, to keep processing, to accept help, to take care of myself. I hope you continue to find ways to do the same.


p.s. a bit of a t/j StillGoing-- I totally agree with you that she has many of the excuses from the WS playbook. I would only add that, from my understanding here, Stu also recognized that there was a disconnect in the relationship, hence his hurried proposal. So this is not exactly the kind of rewriting that a lot of WSs do where the BS was completely blindsided and thought all was well and good.

I only bring this up for clarity because if there is a communication issue in the M, it's important to recognize when both parties were expressing themselves, what they expressed, how they were heard and how they reacted.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:48 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
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Default  Posted: 1:05 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phantom Limb you said something that was familiar. I had the same strange thought; was she naked in front of him and if so how did it happen. When I thought it I knew I was loosing it.
But this all relates to them connecting. Part of my job is to pay attention to details as it relates to the environment. So naturally after years at my job I just remember details, it sometimes is a distraction. When I remember this guy shirtless and in his shorts, I remember everything. I can describe the beauty mark on his lower back. And of course what I couldn't see, I know what's there. But believe me that day there wasn't much left to the imagination considering he was wet. All the young women in the neighborhood were with him helping him was his sports car, and of course he was showering the girls with the water hose. I only went into detail because these mental pictures are very strong images.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I know you're having trouble and it's understandable. but I have to tell you a few things. It's just my opinion, but you're acting like a beta male now.

The fact that your wife betrayed you the way she did reflects on her, not on you. Who cares about Adonis? You married her because you wanted to. You got the girl you wanted. it doesn't matter what Adonis wanted or didn't want. Once you got back, he was out the door. You claimed your bride. Being an alpha male is all in your head.

If in fact she never cheated on you since you've been married, then you're in pretty good shape imo. You could argue that she finally realized what a good catch you were and cherished you.

You have a right to be pissed about the diary and the disrespectful things that were in it. If I were you I would talk to my wife about it. And if I felt we needed to go to MC, she'd better damn well go. She fucked up. She now does what I think we need to do to reconcile.

See what I mean? Given this shit sandwich, you decide what you want to do. If you can't forgive her, divorce her. If you need to go to MC or else, then make it clear that's what needs to be done. Do what YOU want.

If you need to confront the asshole for his disrespectful comments in her diary, then do it. Act like a man. Cowboy up!

All this talk about fluids and her being banged by an alpha male is nonsense. The only issue is she betrayed your trust in your mind. It doesn't matter if she doesn't agree. It's what you think.

Even if she doesn't agree, if she sees that you're hurting she needs to be concerned if she loves you.

those are my thoughts. a shit sandwich never tastes good, but it's what you do about it that matters.

good luck

BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013

Posts: 546 | Registered: Mar 2013
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Default  Posted: 1:58 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You may have a point, I may be a Bata male at this point, and the Dominant male won, he and my wife were able to enjoy each other, and the Bata male came in second. This info has been a shocker to me. I have been confronting all of this directly and have discussed this with my wife. As I said in an earlier post she said we have discussed this to death. She has said Iím battering her with all my questions, it happened and it canít be undone. She said she has nothing to apologies for, she had told me she had an upcoming date and thought our relationship was over or ending.
Regarding Alpha male, have you ever been at a gathering of people and someone enters the room and everyone greets that person with enthusiasm, yet others get ignored. Or you try and have a conversation with a group of people and canít get into that conversation, no one is letting you speak. Yet someone else has no problem stating their idea, everyone is listening. Some people command and direct and the group follows, they are the leaders (Alpha person). This Alpha male takes control and knows how to manipulate people to their advantage. They get what they want at the expense of others. Thatís all I inferred.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

†Some people command and direct and the group follows, they are the leaders (Alpha person). This Alpha male takes control and knows how to manipulate people to their advantage. They get what they want at the expense of others. Thatís all I inferred.

That description fits narcissists also. True leaders lead by example and inspire others to follow and take part.

The way I see it, you're the real alpha male. You're the one who put it on the line and asked her to marry you. She could have said no. Imagine how you would have felt back then if you heard that answer. Meanwhile, this Adonis a-hole does things "in secret" with women because he knows other real males would beat the shit out of him for being a dick swinging douche bag. I've worked with one before in my college days. He would demean the women he dated by telling me and other coworkers of his sexual exploits. To him, they were all trophies. He thought he was an alpha male, up until one of his "conquest's" boyfriend came to our workplace to come looking for him. Mr. Adonis snuck out the back and never came back to work. Some "Alpha" male he was...

Now, what you have to figure out is if your wife deserves you and this marriage. You have to figure out if the reason you asked her hand in marriage was the right reason. She needs to tell you she really wants you and loves you. She needs to prove it.

But then, I would wonder why she would think seeing an MC would be the end of the marriage. She should be eager to see an MC to show you she wants to be in the marriage and help you get past what she did.

Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
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Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Think of this as investing... investing in your life. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance, especially 10 years ago probably belong in the past. What has your investment done in the last ten years? Do the events of ten years ago show you a pattern that is currently going on?
If not then move forward and do not let information about the past stay in the past. Keep your head in the present moment and you can make relational investment decisions.

DD: 12/18/2013
Status: R

Happiness is a choice.

Posts: 141 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: USA
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Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After reading all the posted statements again Iím no better off today then I was a few days ago. Some of the comments have started me thinking about who I am as a man and just what my expectations might have been about regarding life and accomplishments. I was a virgin in my early twenties when I met my wife. I didnít think I was missing something then, but now I am. Why did I hook up with the women I did (my wife)? She was a sexually experienced sensuously gorgeous woman. I saw the way other men looked at her. Could that have excited me, maybe even turned me on, the way they seemed to lust after her. When she was in her bathing suit at the swimming pool guys always swarmed around her and flirted with her. Why did I have negative feelings towards the Alpha male types? Was I envious at their accomplishments and conquests? Did I secretly fantasize that I wished I was them? In high school the jocks on the team I was on seemed to have everything they wanted; they were having sex with their girlfriends. I know they were, they were my friends at the time, it wasnítí t just talk. They had good grades and seemed to own the world and they were admired.
In collage it was the same. The Alpha males seemed to get whatever they wanted. They were scoring at whatever they did; from adulation by others to having their needs taken care of by their groupies. I was accomplished at the sport I played and other things I did as well and had people wanting to hang with me. But I never used or abused them like the guys I knew did. In the dorm, looking back, I think I might have wished I had been the Alpha males who were scoring with the women and graphing their conquests. NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME BEFORE. I WAS HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH MY LIFE UP TO THE DAY I FOUND OUT WHAT MY WIFE AND HER ADONIS DID TOGETHER. Am I at the right sight for what is nagging at me? Could I be jealous of what my wife did, maybe I wanted to fool around with another woman?
Are my thoughts normal, am I just trying to cope with my anger and frustration? PHANTOM LIMB you and some other posters seem to have an insight that is helpful, please respond.

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Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I am going to reiterate the importance of communication with your wife. I definitely see counseling on the near horizon for BOTH of you, if you want to move past this.

You have a right to be pissed about the diary and the disrespectful things that were in it. If I were you I would talk to my wife about it. And if I felt we needed to go to MC, she'd better damn well go. She fucked up. She now does what I think we need to do to reconcile.

See what I mean? Given this shit sandwich, you decide what you want to do. If you can't forgive her, divorce her. If you need to go to MC or else, then make it clear that's what needs to be done. Do what YOU want.

Exactly what mike7 said. And while I definitely have issues with your wife's apparent disconnect to your emotional state, it appears that she is communicating...probably to the best of her limited capability. That is why she needs to work on this aspect of her psychological makeup. Like I said---there is some sort of disconnect.

You need to dig deeper as to why you felt the need to propose the way that you did...especially when you knew that she had a date with another man. You don't propose to someone that is openly going to date another person.

I am not saying this to beat on you, friend. I just think that you really need to explore this part of your thinking. It seems that insecurities have been part of your mindset for quite a while. Especially the way that you are dealing with Mr. Adonis. He is just a guy. And apparently, a fucking coward...a weasel...who preyed on someone who knew was in a relationship.

So, because he can bench-press more than you, he is a man? By what I have read, I look at the guy as a chump....a loser....because that is what his actions show.

None of this changes how you need to handle your wife. She needs help. She doesn't have the ability to emotionally connect to you the same way that you do to her. She has been this way since you met her, and married her anyway. You are just dealing with these difficulties now, because of your revelations. You can either accept this in your life, and "get over it", like she has suggested---or you have the option to NOT ACCEPT IT, and hold her accountable.

The ball really is in your court. You decide what is best for you moving forward. Your wife can either try to make this marriage better, or can stay with her beliefs that she did nothing wrong---and let this marriage deteriorate even further. You don't control her, but you control yourself.

What are you going to do?

2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D

Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
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Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Think of it this way:

If your W had men who swarmed around her, flirting and vying for her attention, why did she pick you?

If she's been so "free" sexually and been with other men who were more experienced, why did she pick you?

If "Adonis" was so skilled, so endowed, soooo irresistible, why did she say yes, even answer the phone while she was having sex with him? Yes, there are some emotional issues within her to do that but also something telling about your pull to her heart.

Why did she hide it for all those years if it was about "Adonis" and Aplha males?

Because a woman generally doesn't really want an Alpha male. They used her. They didn't see her as a woman, as a person. My guess is she got into a relationship with you expecting to see the same. But you were different. You sought her heart and she wasn't expecting that.

Stu- in this situation you're the Alpha male. That creep was rejected as he was in her. Rejected.

You're W has some major issues she needs to deal with, but my guess is deep down she didn't like being used. Because that's what you are describing all those guys doing. Using the women around them.

This theory of mine might even speak to why she hasn't done some of the sexual things with you she has with others. She didn't feel the need to allow you the use of her body beyond her comfort zone because she knew you would still love and accept her.

BTW- you need to find another nickname that more accurately describes him...rather than glorifies what you have made him out to be. Might I suggest Neanderthal? Cretin? WD- walking dildo?

"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11275 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
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Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good advice above. I know for one that the word Adonis is now seared into my head forever.

It was suggested that you really did deep on why you proposed when and how you did, and under what mindset. Her telling you she was going to date was basically ending exclusivity. Why was a marriage proposal the response?

I can totally relate to your feelings vis a vis other young men trying to score. It's like Rudolph not doing well in those reindeer games to much self-created humiliation. You seem to have some old deep wounds related to your sexuality and self-esteem. This Adonis thing has re-opened these wounds not fully healed. In some ways this whole thing is about you now. And what you do to move forward.

Like others said, an Alpha male does not sneak out the back door, or cheat on his fiancťe. You are only viewing him as his body, not soul or mind. The actions and circumstances do not speak well for his latter two characteristics.

Is it that you looked at having your hot sexy wife as a prize? Meaning that you 'won'? That she as a prize was supposed to heal your past wounds related to sexuality? The narrative about fluids struck me as a rationalization that gave meaning to how you dealt with your insecurities in the past.

And, dude, I can relate. I married my wife in a lot of ways because she was a prize for me being a 'nice guy'. I did not really fully love her, I loved how getting her validated me at the time. And how being a 'rescuer' also made me feel good. Let's just say that I do not look at my prize the same way. Not to mention looking at my wife as a prize is/was messed up.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:43 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]

I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
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Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Stu...

I'm replying again because you asked me to. I hope that I'm not pushing you too much. I'm just going to tell you what I think again and hope it's helpful.

What I'm reading here makes me think that you have insecurity issues that stem back a long way. Probably as early as high school. That insecurity seems to come from observing a certain social expectation for you to be what you've called an "Alpha male" which, from your description, appears to be a man who is aggressive sexually, hooks up with many women, commiserates with other men about their conquests and generally, frankly, treats women as sexual objects and with a great deal of disrespect. You seem to have been wired differently. You took your time sleeping with someone you cared about. You didn't actively participate in the antics you saw these other men engage. You played by rules that you were comfortable with and showed you had a great deal more maturity and character. However, again, that you weren't sleeping around or engaging in jock culture seems to have made you feel like an outsider.

Your continued descriptions of the OM... his body, his behaviors, his "alpha" status, your encounters with him, his "fluids," etc is you participating in an act of comparison with/against yourself. You don't know how to measure yourself up to this man. Potentially all of your life you've felt inferior (the beta male) to these kinds of men (the alpha male) and now you have to contend with the presence of one of these guys acutely in your life and your M.

This is just a preliminary guess-- but it sounds like you viewed your wife as the kind of woman one of these jocks would have considered a conquest. But you had her. Until you found out that she had, in fact, slept with a man who symbolizes all of those things you once found detestable. And so this has made you question everything.

In terms of advice... I agree that you need to start thinking about what you want and need here and try not to mentally subordinate yourself to this man in your mind. He's long gone, Stu. Certainly you're going to need to replay your encounters and the mind movies of him with your wife will take a long time to set aside (I speak from experience). But don't let insecurities from the past cause you to stagnate now and spin your wheels. Time for you to find a way to feel safe and move towards a healthier view of you, your wife, your marriage. To learn to process these thoughts. To figure out how, or even if, you can communicate with your wife.

I'll get personal for a second on the subject of your wife. While everyone is different, I can sense that I may have some similarities with her worldview and, at this stage, contemplating what she could have been thinking is something you are going to do anyway... so maybe this will help you process. But remember that whatever I say here, I'm not a substitute for your wife.

Before I met and M my X, I was a pretty attractive girl and I tended to date the kind of alpha males you are describing. Body builder/professional athlete types. My X was nothing like that. He worked out a lot, but he was never going to have a six pack. And he was handsome... but sort of in a professional/professorial way. He was more of the brainy type and he wasn't going to win any Adonis contests. When I met him, I wasn't attracted to him in the way I had been with other men. With other men, I was turned on by how, to use your term again, "alpha" they often were. That's not to say I allowed myself to be degraded by them... but if they took charge a little or wanted to try something different sexually, I was into it because the level of engagement with them was different than it was when I was in a relationship with someone who was my boyfriend. With someone I was trying to build a life with and wanted to establish full equality and respect. With some of these other guys, I might go on a date with them because I found them attractive, sleep with them, keep in touch with them for a few weeks or months... but then move on. Because I never wanted to end up with one of these guys as a partner. For my husband I wanted someone like the man I thought I married. Serious, compassionate, intelligent, thoughtful, etc. (It turns out my X was more of a broken person than I realized! But that's another story!)

In any case, I remember when my X was pressuring me to date him exclusively and head towards M. I was very young and, although I loved him, I was unsure about marrying him. I wasn't sure if I should keep dating. If he and I were better as friends instead of lovers. But then I thought, I could do a lot worse than marrying my best friend. Someone who had shown me that he wasn't one of these disgusting alpha males. Someone I could trust. Who would be an equal partner. Who would be a good father. So I did it.

I'd say it took me a few years, but I eventually came to deeply, deeply love my X and I never regretted my decision to stop being the cute girl who hooks up with men who are full of themselves. I wanted the kind of intimacy I had with my X where my sexuality wasn't viewed as something to be obtained. It was something to share.

When women are growing up in the kind of culture we are in, we are given a lot of conflicting messages. We are told we have to look a certain way. Be available to men in a certain way. Much like you feeling pressured by the jocks in high school, we feel pressure to accept the attentions of these kinds of men to feel like we have value. It can be very, very, very difficult for a woman to negotiate these waters. So when your wife was feeling like your dating relationship was stalling and got attention from an "Adonis"-- I can understand why she might have felt pressure to go on a date and, when he came on to her, to go along.

But when you called and asked her to marry you... she made a choice. She chose not to be that girl anymore. To choose a man who wouldn't take her for granted. Who wasn't just after her as a conquest. You valued her more. And, if this story remains the same, it sounds like she left that other girl behind in that diary and, for 10 years, has been a wife to you. She may not even relate to who that younger, impressionable girl was. It's even possible she may view herself as victimized by that man and she doesn't know how to process it. I can imagine all kinds of reasons why she's reluctant to open that part of herself back up and look at it.

That doesn't mean she shouldn't for your sake. But somehow you two need to figure out how to communicate about this. This is both triggering so many issues for both of you that have less to do with her one night stand a decade ago and so much more to do with how the two of you relate to one another and understand your roles in your M. And you both clearly need to do some work separately to deal with your individual problems and figure out how you want to proceed in the M. There is something that people on SI say a lot: your old marriage is dead. And it is. You can't go back to the blissful ignorance of the past. The good news is, it sounds like all of the piece of this new reality are on the table-- down to her diary. The "bad" news (which can be good news) is that you now have a lot of work to do to contend with it.

Okay, this is a novel, so I'm going to wrap it up. I hope this helps a little...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:27 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]

BS / D

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Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holly-Isis and MC Jack I hear what you are telling me. But I feel like that wimpy person who gets his ass kicked or stepped on most of the time, now. I have always been the person that friends, relatives, colleagues have come to for solutions. I'm always given the most difficult assignments at work. I get things done and done well. But this is something I can't resolve. Remember I got my wife by default; she didn't love me but settled for me. She had told me on the phone weíd talk about it later. That was a rejection of my proposal. I knew she had a date and I didnít want to lose her, I knew it was ending our exclusivity. So I did the only option I could think of at that moment, to ask her to marry me. I didnít know she was in bed with the dude. She was to see him later that night; I called her in the morning. My morning call was a desperate act of trying to salvage the relationship I didnít want to loose and prevent her from seeing that guy and from probably having sex with him.
I have had self-esteem issues and have been dealing with them since I was a teen. I mentioned in a post that I have always had to work hard to achieve positive results. Like the character ďRocky BalboaĒ I push the envelope and do excel at what I do in life most of the time. I think the use of Alpha male has been a euphemism for the guys I have always had to compete against. Whether in sports, work, or life in general there have always been guys who have tried put me down or take advantage of me. If they could it would make them feel good. But IĎve never backed down or run from a confrontation of their making. I stand up for myself as well as others who might feel threatened.
Why my wife and I ever got together is a mystery to me. We are different people philosophical, politically and religiously.

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Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phantom Limb, thank you for your time and insights. As I read your message I got emotional it hit a nerve with me. I find after reading your messages I feel calmer and seem to have more rational thoughts. The frustration and anger is still with me but your insights do help. Please keep giving me your thouhts. Whenever you think of something that might help, please post it.

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Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like that wimpy person who gets his ass kicked or stepped on most of the time, now.

I think that your current insecurity issue is transient due to the situation. From what you've posted about *who* you are, it doesn't seem to be a long-time issue. Sure you've *noticed* the Alpha males throughout life, but you seem to have been pretty *comfortable* with who YOU were.

I am not a male, but from being on this site from a while and reading lots of JFO posts written by men, it seems pretty common for a man's *man-ness* to take a hit upon a finding of infidelity. Try to focus on yourself and what you offer -- people *trust* you, as evidenced by being the go-to person for difficult assignments or issues, etc.

One step in the proper direction may be for you to begin re-framing the whole 'Adonis' thing -- right now, your self-esteem is taking a hit every single time that word enters your mind. He is a 'taker.' He is a 'user' of people.....and there is NOTHING glorious about a person who treats others that way. The guy is a douchebag, plain and simple. He may have a wonderful-looking outside, but his insides are pure black and disgusting.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

Posts: 8181 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
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Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It makes me happy to hear that I might be helping you. SI helped me through the darkest time of my life and, if I can give back a little bit, I want to do that.

This stuck out to me:

I stand up for myself as well as others who might feel threatened.

Right now you are the one who feels threatened and you are the one who needs someone to stand up for you. Try to be that person for yourself as much as you can. In my lowest moments, I had to go on what I called my "autopilot." I knew what I had to do for myself objectively to get through the nightmare, and I just pushed myself to do it-- whether it was NCing my X, moving out, getting into IC, reaching out and accepting help from family and friends, filing for D...

What do you feel like you need for yourself right now?

BS / D

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Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stu, to reply to your question about whether the triggers/flashbacks/obsessions get better/go away -- they actually do (or can). They naturally fade and get better over time. And you can encourage even further healing, if you need it, by doing a special type of therapy that's targeted towards trauma. There is more than one type. Therapy for trauma is different than standard therapy. If you don't like standard therapy, you may still like the trauma stuff, especially if it gives you results.

However, none of this makes you immune to NEW hurts. I would strongly suggest you follow the standard advice here--to guard yourself if nothing else. Also, standard therapy can help with this. I know you love your wife, but you can love her and protect yourself at the same time. Based on what I've read, I would suggest doing the 180 to help heal and clear your head. If your wife takes the initiative to ACT more respectful towards you, you can re-evaluate things.

Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 846 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this thread is getting caught up in debating the "alpha/beta" stuff. I've come across that ideology before and read a bunch of it. It's all nonsense, of course, but I don't think stu realizes how poisonous it is--it encourages men to deal with anger/bitterness by REINFORCING it with a completely BS theory based on pop evolutionary psychology, and of course it hurts women. Telling him that it's offensive neatly fits into its rhetoric, which in part says "this stuff is offensive and horrifying but it's the truth! you have to swallow the red pill and see reality for what it is!" Attempting to appeal to him in terms of the theory also makes it stronger (e.g. saying that he's acting like a beta male).

Again, stu, whether you believe in that "alpha/beta" stuff or not, there are PRACTICAL steps you can and should take to make things better for yourself; then and only then can you make things better for other people, because you're doing the emotional equivalent of bleeding out right now.

ETA: Also, I understand why you're buying into this stuff; you're horrified and angry. I'm not going to judge you for looking for a new way to interpret the world. Just please be open to things you haven't considered, and to the idea that changes will take place that will surprise you, if you do the right things for yourself.

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 2:29 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]

Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 846 | Registered: Nov 2012
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Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To back up IceCream, this kind of talk:

But I never used or abused them like the guys I knew did. In the dorm, looking back, I think I might have wished I had been the Alpha males who were scoring with the women and graphing their conquests. NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME BEFORE. I WAS HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH MY LIFE UP TO THE DAY I FOUND OUT WHAT MY WIFE AND HER ADONIS DID TOGETHER. Am I at the right sight for what is nagging at me? Could I be jealous of what my wife did, maybe I wanted to fool around with another woman?

Is definitely the kind of thing that isn't healthy and, again, signals a need for IC.

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
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Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being told by my wife that she screwed another guy is a catastrophic event for me and I am trying to deal with it as well as I can. I had a happy marriage up until a short time ago. Iím not a physiologist; Iíve never been through therapy and basically have been grasping at straws to try to deal with this situation. I have been writing from emotion and stress. Do I understand the deep ideology of half the stuff Iíve written, NO. Everything I have written is from a generic understanding, and I would hesitate to even describe it in that sense. All I want is my life back with the women I trusted. I should have just lived in blissful ignorance. But since Iím here, just give me coping skills and a way to stay healthy and sane. And if it is possible, forgive or except what happened; this history canít be revised. This stress is beginning to have an effect on me and I have made an appointment to see my doctor.

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