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User Topic: A question of remorse
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, February 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

knowing she is not in remorse now but is committed to the marriage

These are mutually exclusive concepts.
She may be committed to not getting a divorce right now, but she is not committed to the marriage or you in the way that she needs to be.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

Posts: 8111 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, February 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is, knowing she is not in remorse now but is committed to the marriage, does remorse eventually come?
Then you're not in R. My xww didn't have remorse but didn't want D. If she has not remorse then she isn't really committed to the M. Not in a healthy way at all.

D final 8/2012

Posts: 4007 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, February 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a vanishingly small window in which remorse is useful. Every day that passes where she doesn't display it and keeps everything about her is something you won't forget.

Listen to me: even if you do reconcile, you'll never forget--even years from now--how long it took her to come long she was willing to watch you suffer and refuse to budge.

She is re-shaping the image of who she is that you'll carry around with you for the rest of your marriage. She's teaching you that when the shit hits the fan, she is an unreliable support, and you're best taking care of yourself before putting yourself in emotional jeopardy for her sake.

Whether she thinks she's doing it or not, she's defining the intimacy ceiling for her future with you. Most of us are not bottomless wells of compassion.

Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6750 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This was a difficult thread to read for several reasons. First I identify with the post in two ways. The first way is that I remember after DDay 1 feeling so frustrated that the replies to my posts on SI seemed to indicate a lack of understanding for my unique position. In fact, after DDay 2 and more time I realized they were all correct all along and that the similarities in situations outweigh the uniqueness of them. It was a hard truth to come to, because I felt I knew my WS better than the replies knew the similarities in all our stories. Ugh. The second way is because I'm the other thread that posted about remorse. Our overall situations are different, but our place in R is similar. WS has given me what I needed to begin R including NC, 100% transparency, IC and MC. What she's struggling with is supporting and understanding the depth of my pain.

Second, one post mentioned that if the WS shows compassion and understanding for the BS, then who is there for the WS. That resonates with my situation. Though my WS isn't romanticizing the EAs, she is clinging to the relationship problems that preceded her choice to stray. She's clinging to the idea that she (without my expectation or knowledge) sacrificed all of herself to rescue me from any emotion I had in our first 8 years together. I'm wondering if your WW is using the AP as a projection of that. It might be less that the A made her feel good and more that doing something independently to meet a need she decided needed filled outside the relationship (wrongly) is what she's clinging to.

In my case, WS is making really good and really difficult progress in IC with regard to what was broken in her that led her to think that an EA was an option. At this point it seems she is identifying aspects of her behavior and assumed role in our relationship that led to both the relationship issues and her ability to stray. It seems she is struggling with linking them to my pain and the damage caused, because her discoveries of herself and the implied defense and blatant minimization of the EAs contradict depending on the conversation. It's very difficult and very lonely right now because of it. It is my hope that as she continues to make progress on herself and as we enter into MC, this link will occur and I will see remorse. It's a lot to hope and wait for though. And the wait for it was described by another post very feels like the longer I wait the more I'm being betrayed.

If you aren't doing it, I highly recommend both of you do IC and MC. You HAVE to find an MC that is knowledgable about As though. In my own experience and from reading threads on SI, that can be challenging. It can also be very damaging to the BS and the relationship otherwise.

I hope that you two get there. I hope that we do too. This is so much harder than I thought, but I also never thought I'd stay after an affair. Time will tell, I suppose. Hugs to you.

WS: 39
BS: 39
DS: 6
9 year relationship
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013 with TT
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011 with TT
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 727 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
♂ Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Will your WW get to remorse? Maybe -- the time varies for everyone and some people never get there.

What she's showing you now suggests that she's far from remorse.

That's one of the most horrible feelings of the first year. Not knowing where things are.

If you're looking for direction on what to do, here it is:

You have no way of controlling your wife and steering her toward remorse. Give that up. (not easy and very painful)

You control yourself. Build yourself up. (takes great strength)

In time you'll know whether you want to stay or not stay with your WW. When that day comes she might be remorseful, she might not. You'll be strong enough to accept the situation.

It's scary. Stay strong.

Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
♀ Member
Member # 42184
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, February 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To put it simply, she can't achieve remorse if she is still clinging onto mementos of OM for dear life. The emails have to go, and every other thing related to OM has to go. She cannot be committed to marriage either while she is still committed to saving things related to OM. If she can't get rid of the emails willingly, then you should do it to establish boundaries and what will not be tolerated. She needs to know that consequence.

Me, WW
Him, BH
2 DDs
Together 9 yrs, married 4
Flirting/Boundary Breaking/Cheating for 8 years, OEA Fall 09-Feb 10 with flirty friend from 2007/2008, lied and rugswept until TT 12/13-02/14.

Posts: 74 | Registered: Jan 2014
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To try to answer your questions directly: You ask how long? The above posters are trying to tell you that it varies from person to person but it WILL take much longer with a WS who keeps personal momentos and emails. On the plus side you have said that she has told you that she has them, I may go against the grain here but that is a positive as most if not all WS's will still lie about that and a BS would never know.

We understand it is too soon for you to hear that you must take a hard stand on this feel you love her so therefore you will give her time. Yet you are asking us all here how much time? And no one can tell you that because it is an unknown.

We can however tell you that the longer this all takes the chance the WS is taking in losing it all. Because you will get angry, as WAL said above your WS is setting the bar right now for intimacy in your marriage, she is teaching you that you cannot trust her to do the right thing, that she will pick her wants and needs first. And it will start to eat away at you every day like water torture. By getting tough and demanding she get rid of those emails and facebook or twitter or whatever way she has of keeping information you are telling her to finally rip the bandaid off and take the risk of just loving you.

Thats when the real healing will begin. But not before.

Posts: 5684 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, February 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I find impossible to understand is why your wife won't get rid of the e-mails, if she never looks at them. Can you honestly say she hasn't in 6 months read them? Sorry, but if I was in her situation I would have done. If she still says she hasn't looked then it's no odds to her to destroy them - but you should keep a hard copy just in case you ever need them. It obviously bothers you, or you wouldn't have mentioned it.

After d-day every trace of OW was removed from our house. Including all communications, e-mails,txts etc, deleted without asking by my H (I have hard copies stashed away in case). There wasn't much but we had known her and her H for years so there were odd old xmas presents floating around. No way on earth did my H want to keep anything associated with her. That's real remorse. 6 months out and you should be getting worried. Sorry.

Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 231 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
Topic Posts: 28
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