I had to go back and find where that started. With my memory being what it is, I felt like it was maybe a year and a half ago...
Time flies! I found it way back in Feb. 2011 in NPD Part 8. Gosh, we've been together a long time here.
With as much shit as we've all endured, I'm so glad that we can still find humor in the situation and keep each other laughing.
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 2:16 AM, April 24th (Thursday)]
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
But I wasn't sure how it related in the forum. On top of caulk... The moronkept milk crates... Tens am stems of milk crates.. I need a lamp tBle.. "Use a milk crate" are you kidding me?? What are you, a struggling uni student??
He kept brining them in the house to "store things in" I kept taking them back out to the she's where they belong. He thought they were good as they 'stacked neatly'. Well guess what sunshine....
All your shits stacked neatly in crates in the garage. Take those ugly things with you when you go
Something you said, about your abuse and how you felt he was not supportive in your healing. It brought all kinds of memories back for me. It is very early and feels a bit too much but here is what I experienced.
Childhood abuse, pretty bad, from a close family member. I never really talked about it with anyone until stbxwh, he really made me feel I could trust him with it. What a mistake.
It turned into something he could use against me, a way to make me feel damaged. I haven't really thought much about this before, one of those things that I pushed away.
Since dday #1 though, he brought it up over and over about how my pain was from my past damage, not from him. How I was making him pay for the damage that was done to me before him.
Now, looking back, I remember him using this against me before dday, ugghhhh...
Too much flooding in right now. Just needed to grab on to this, need to process this a bit more. The layers of this abuse seem to never end.
I just wanted to put this out to you, as maybe it would help to see that my narc used this against me, like yours used your abuse against you. Maybe it will help you to not blame yourself.
I think they will use any justification, manipulation to not see themselves.
I would now like to be known as Can!
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
attempted R, it was all a lie
Don't see any ICR archives either, so playing off memory, people just started talking about finding tubes of half-used caulk and guns lying around, then ev.ery.body. was finding it. There were posts and posts and posts about "ME TOO!" It was crazy and uncanny, until cg...she posted: "It's a diagnostic criteria." and we all fell out laughing our asses off...
It became "official" right then - and wouldn't you know it? Even the n0obs are finding it.
We gots our official 'sign' (diagnostic criteria),
our official mascot, the zebraduck: also cg's:
"If it walks like a duck and sounds like a...it's a zebraduck!" (one of our dear old members who hasn't been around in awhile - I miss her! - ACTUALLY had one!), and our official theme song!
What?... say you?
You haven't heard it?
Wellll...lemme fix that right now!
If I go back and timeline his (alleged) affairs I can find correlations for the good, the bad, and the drama free times. It sucks that I didn't see it sooner as it was right under my nose the whole time.
XH used whatever he could use to keep me unbalanced. It worked for almost 21 years. It stopped when I started getting out and meeting people and being real and true ... And they liked and accepted me! I felt a world opening up and started growing some self esteem and he couldn't squash my growth.
It was the beginning of the end.
If you are inclined, lots of information about all sorts of narcs and those who deal with them on her website.
Do you think their behaviors are conscious or unconscious?
I think both apply. We all have developed coping mechanisms that ( no matter how dysfunctional) we use without thinking about. I believe the narc is no different.
But, gaslighting while a learned manipulation tactic, also requires conscious thought. They have to think of the lie they're going to tell you!
Getting quietly angry, might not be conscious at first, till they discover that we bend over backwards to make it right. When it's used consciously to get a planned reaction from us.... Yeah they've thought about it.
I've actually said that to him, and he agreed with me!
I still stayed!!!!
I am a thirty year old single mum. Lots of friends, rent my own house which i work hard for. Was very wary of men after a previous relationship so didn't date for a long time. 2 years ago I met a guy in my local pub, he chased me and tried all the flattery but i liked to think i never fell for it, i would often watch men go from one girl to the other so i never was flattered if a guy chatted me up. But something felt different about this guy. We went on a date and got on so well. he drove, had a good job, was happy to stay in with me all the time, brought me a holiday to Paris, was great with my daughter. Very soon though cracks began to show. Possibly after about 3 months when he moved in. I started getting a feeling of him having no empathy and almost mirroring/faking emotions. He also started lying about both big but also small pointless things. He became very moody and quite mean. He would go silent for ages to punish me about literally nothing,everything had to be a debate where he was right. He also put a password onhis phone and never let it out his site. So after about a year I went on his laptop history and email account and facebook. He had been chatting up loads of girls, and also was posting pictures and rude messages to girls, couples, transexuals and men on craigslist (i had never heard of craigslist before this!) I confronted him and he started crying, saying he loved me so much. He said he had low self esteem and hearing these people wanted to meet him gave him an ego boost, but he would never have met them. he became perfect again so i forgave him. For some reason he also stopped paying half the bills around this time. everytime i asked he would go moody and distant so i stopped asking him as it upset me.
Then I caught him again and was ready to 100% chuck him out, but he reacted in a way i hadnt prepared for. he denied everything point blank. someone hacked his email, his phone, were using his phone to reply without his knowledge. and actually being mad and upset at me 'how can you not believe me, why would i do this again knowing you'd dump me, i didnt even change my email password surely i would have done that if it was me' i found it so hard to react to his refusing to admit that i took him back again. even thought at least its just messages. maybe hes just using it like porn. then literally a few weeks before christmas and my 30th birthday, i found out the one night he went out without me he met a girl in our local pub and started chatting her up. people said to her he has a long term gf but he talked his way out of it saying we'd only just broken up, but he just connected with her so much he has to get to know her and take her out. i saw the messages, when me and he would go out we'd pay halves and he'd make me pay half the petrol. but he left my house, picked her up after work, took her on a date, then was texting her after (while at my house)saying how beautiful she was etc. it hurt so much more. the others were just faceless and sex, this girl was pretty and he seemed t like her. his excuse was he doesnt have female friends anymore(???) i gave him another chance as i could bear the thought of him them being with this girl. He sdidnt even bother pretending after that really, there was no honeymoon period trying to get in my good books or wanting to spend time with me. all his nights off work hes out with friends. i went through his phone two weeks ago and hes been on a dating app and sex messaged more than 20 girls. booked a hotel room (but cancelled as he had to work)for one, met her in the day and she says they kissed in his car (he says they didnt but admitted meeting her and booking the hotel) most of these girls are hideous looking. two were local and knew he had a girlfriend. he even invited one of them out for his birthday which i was at!! he was skyping them from my bed. still paying no bills. so i ended it again but let him still live here as at least i know where he is (i was so distraught every second thinking if thats what he done when we was together he'd be with someone else every second we were apart) so know i am cooking for him, doing his washing, lying to his family for him, while he is 'technically' single, every time i ask him who hes messaging or for money he says 'you are the one who dumped me' there is no care, or compassion at me crying every night. reading back i sound SO PATHETIC but i really am not, i dont know what he has done to me. one night a beloved pet died and he shouted at me for an HOUR because i asked him to dig a hole in the garden, all while i was crying. i know he is a very strange human but i just feel this attachment. i'm sure there are many parts ive forgotton to write but please can you help? Sorry for spelling/typing errors is hard on my phone
Kajem, my exWBF had this whole obsession with people's motives; everything seemed like manipulation to him, no relationships were genuine, they were just ways of getting power. Well, yeah, for HIM!
And Katy...I think the first and main thing to accept, unofficial diagnosis wise, is that he is a selfish asshole.
I'm no therapist, my unofficial diagnosis - he's got traits of NPD. The lack of empathy regarding your beloved pet is a huge red flag, as well as other behaviors( twisting things to be your fault, painting himself as the victim).
The way I got nerve to tell my hubsnd of 18 years and the love of my life to leave was thinking of what example or relationship was telling our 4 daughters. They would grow up thinking that his treatment of me was normal. And it was anything BUT normal.
i know he is a very strange human but i just feel this attachment.
Honey, he isn't strange, he's selfish and cruel. The attachment you feel isn't healthy and it isn't coming from a healthy place inside you. Are you in individual counseling?
I replied to your post in General. One thing that helped me to be clear about what was acceptable behavior, I would ask myself, "how would I react, think, feel if some man were treating my child this way". It seems easier to be more objective if I take myself out of the equation.
Manipulation. I had a conversation a few years ago with stbxwh. We were talking about manipulation. He was telling me how everyone manipulates others to get a desired reaction or action.
I was floored by this, could not understand nor believed that everyone was like that. By the time that conversation was over, I felt so naive, so stupid. I felt like I had been walking around blind and was the only one that did not know this!
That is how twisted I allowed myself to be by him.
I see now that everyone really is not like this, not everyone manipulates, I was not stupid! But and this is a very big but, huge, there are those others out there, the cruel ones, that do manipulate, they really do. The whole issue for me now is being able to discern between the two. It is not easy or at least I don't trust myself to be able to do this yet.
I will always look at actions now, words have no meaning if the actions don't align.
Great Grandfather (my mother's grandfather) - inwardly violent. possible unconfirmed affairs. suicide by train. no diagnosis
Grandmother (my mother's mother) - outwardly violent. confirmed multiple affairs. officially diagnosed with Huntington's Disease in her early 70s. also narcissistic tendencies. NPD?
Grandmother's brother (my mother's uncle) - outwardly violent. possible affairs. officially diagnosed with Huntington's Disease in his early 40s. spent last few years of life in a straight jacket.
Uncle (mother's brother) - inwardly violent. suicide by hanging. no diagnosis
Mother - inwardly violent/some outwardly violent. 1 LTA. Most likely other unconfirmed affairs/ONSs. 2 suicide attempts. possibly diagnosed with Huntington's Disease with narcissistic tendencies. Was seeing a Huntington's/Narcissist specialist. NPD? bipolar mostly ruled out. "When she loses her power she gets violent."
Brother - inwardly violent. suicide by shotgun. no diagnosis.
I find myself staring at this this morning. I have 3 little one's at home and I'm terrified. This hasn't skipped a generation.
Anyone else have to deal with this?
It can skip YOU can't it? It has so far, right?
Personally, I think narcs will utilize everything at there disposal to be the center of attention. If an illness presents itself they will use it.
I know a few (3) people who have huntingtons disease- I don't know them well, but they do not strike me as narcissistic. My mom has COPD, she was diagnosed 5-6 years ago. She was a self absorbed narc since my earliest memory (about 4).
I think our healthcare (US) is so messed up that the squeaky wheel gets attention. And sometimes you have to be obnoxious to get the help you need. It might seem like narc behaviors, but if it the situation causing the behavior then I'm apt to dismiss. But if it happens under different situations regularly- no pass!
Huntingtons is a scary disease. And people acting nasty all the time- well the disease is not the reason, IMHO it's the diseased patient using the disease as an excuse to treat people badly. There are plenty of people who are kind and loving going thru the same thing!
Those are all excellent points. And I agree that sometimes people hide behind their "labels" in order to justify their behavior.
Yesterday I thought about possibly getting tested myself. I was going to talk to W last night but I literally fell asleep in the middle of our conversation about it. Not much sleep lately but I think we all know how that goes. Anyway, I think that could be a factor for either ruling it in or out for me personally. Who knows with the other diagnosis because our health care system is a mess, getting better, but back then, I guess it could be unreliable information. I was telling my father that she really fits NPD. He wasn't arguing against it so much as he was saying that NPD could be a symptom of HD because there are so many psychological disorders that can be triggered by the destruction of cells that come from HD.
Bottom line... I think any way that I look at this thing is just plain and simply nasty. I was just hoping that this FOO crap was not genetic and I could keep under my control. Not so sure anymore.
W pointed out to me last night that this HD/NPD whatever label you want to give it is only 25% of our kids gene pool. Which really didn't make me feel any better about it. But she also pointed out that our kids are growing up in a loving environment which all the other predecessors in this list may not have. Still nervous as hell though.
Thanks everyone. I think I see testing in my future.