I'm so glad you found your way to this thread - I've been reading your posts on the SA thread.
If you have any questions, this is the place for them. People here know so much about NPD. Also, no matter what you say about your NPD, you'll find others here who have experienced similar things with their NPDs.
The sex and NPD thing is very strange - you'll see it mentioned here very often.
I've been busy with work and riding a triggery week, so haven't had a chance to learn more about the link between NPD and sex.
The psychiatrist that diagnosed the ex's NPD and bipolar left me a message yesterday asking to meet with him next week. Weird.
I've been crying ever since. Everyone just says why do I care? Why do I indeed? But damn it, it still hurts. Where was he when I had health problems? I had some scares and tests and he didn't bother asking about them?
I'm going to start divorce proceedings, but I feel like I'm detoxing from a drug that is bad for me, but in a way I miss the good parts, KWIM? I know it was a illusion logically, but I'm having such great difficulty balancing the logic with the emotions. I believed and wanted to believe for so long his words or love even though the red flags were waving and my gut told me they were all lies.
I'm having trouble with facing the fact that he didn't really love me and although the logic of NPD tells me that he really doesn't love her either, I still feel he does. My WH#1 left me for someone else and I just feel like there's something wrong with me.
Damn this hurts.
I wish I was strong enough to tell WH that I don't want to hear anything about OW, but I didn't want to poke the bear.
I don't want to walk on eggshells anymore, but I"m hurting still and miss the good parts. I guess a lot of us did put up with the bad for the good for far too long until there was little good left.
I don't know if I'm making any sense.
Thank you for listening.
Sweetie, there's not a THING wrong with you!
I'm sorry you're hurting tonight. Be gentle with yourself.
The link btwn NPD and SA?
SA is medicating behavior.
It distracts them.
From the pain of being themselves:
Lost. Nothing. No there there.
Seriously. Their brains do not connect - do not fire neurons in empathy places. There are no pathways, no connections.
They make it up as they go - so as not to be shunned and rejected in social situations.
They mirror things, expertly - but again, just like a reflection - think about it! - it's only 2 dimensions: not real.
This 'color blind' analogy, it works. Have you ever met or known a color blind person?
I'm thinking, the last thing you ever wanted to do was sit them down and explain "pink", right?
Disengage by engaging with your own wonderful self.
You've been fruitlessly used enough, don't you think?
It's your time now.
Then there is the straight forward response of YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON AND IT IS THEIR ISSUE. Be kind and gentle with yourself and repeat there is not a thing wrong with you.
It's so very hard if what you were listening to all these years were them, good and bad. Told me a lot of good things, brought up my low self esteem, so of course when he said something "honest" I believed him.
I believed and believed all the "I love you's" and "you are my only true love" , "I never loved the OW" etc. I wanted to believe it so badly that I didn't pay attention to my gut and the reality that was screaming at me.
I have to keep believing that it was not real, but that hurts too.
Thank you all so much.
I have been trying to catch up on the past few pages but still have some to read so please forgive me for not commenting on all the stuff you guys have posted. There is a lot of good stuff that makes me think about my marriage and what I put up with to keep him happy. Sorry this seems to be a bit long but you guys got me thinking about stuff....
I just read a thread in D/S and it really got me thinking about the ex and wondered if anyone one else dealt with this craziness....
My ex was never satisfied with ANYTHING! The post was about how their ex was never satisfied with a non perfect home and I realized that my ex was the same way. But it also made me realize that it wasn't just our home he wasn't satisfied with but with everything in his life. I swear the man bought 3 trucks in the year we dated, had another 5 or 6 trucks and a car in our 11 years of living together because they all seemed to have an issue that no one could fix. He had to get the latest phone, the best and newest TV (and of course the biggest at the time too), he bought 4 sets of furniture for the house in the 9 years we owned it, bought a formal dining set even though I told him I HATED them, painted one of the bedrooms 4 times (different colors), painted another one 3 times, and another one 2 times, painted the main bathroom 3 different colors of blue because they never got the colors right, bought a chest freezer then sold it for ??? reason, bought 3 different fridges because they all had some odd issue he didn't like, purchased 3 bedroom sets but never used any of them (they were mine) and of course 95% of these purchase or changes were done without my knowledge or agreement. He NEVER told me about buying a different car/TV/Furniture till it was a done deal.
It really makes me wonder if there was so much dissatisfaction with himself that he constantly tried to change his "things" in an effort to fix himself and make himself happy? I know that I was the longest relationship he ever had and that included with his kids.
Did anyone's ex do these same things?
I have also wondered if my ex really wants to be with men but because of how horrific his dad was to him he knew he could never come out of the closet. He fantasizes about being with men but I have no idea if he really has been with one (he swears he isn't into men). I know that he saw a lot of abuse, cheating and alcoholism from his parents and that his mom treats him like a baby even tho he is in his 50's. He wasn't into the "caulk" thing like other NPDs but he does seem to like "c*ck" I started thinking about this because of his withholding sex and then blaming it on my headaches. He would do this even when I wasn't having headaches. It was always my fault that we didn't have sex for YEARS! The funny part is that sex was ok BEFORE we got married and then it died and I had to beg for it. I really think that I just didn't have the right equipment and so he wouldn't do it. I was just for his image and not the partner he really wanted.
My ex was very emotionally and mentally abusive during out marriage but I couldn't see it until the last 6 months because I was too busy trying to cover up his drunken crap around friends and our grandchild. Walking on egg shells and the silent treatment became a way of life with him. I was told that if I cut my hair he wasn't attracted to me, that he only liked long hair and I needed to grow my hair down to my butt, he told me I was a great cook and would never share what I made with anyone but now I think it was because he was lying to them about me. He would buy me clothes that an 80 year old lady would wear, ugly stuff that he knew I hated but he told me he liked on me. There were subtle digs about my body, my jobs, my goals like going back to school and so many other things. He was always complaining when I had to have "necessary" surgery. How can you bitch about your spouse needing their gall bladder removed or heart surgery? I mean, really? Who the hell does that? Oh yeah, a selfish NPD abusive spouse!
Hugs to everyone suffering with an NPD or the after effects of an NPD. This stuff is NOT for the faint of heart!
I went through hell some days ago....
My NPD ex did not return the children as planned.
Prior to that he accused me of deliberately giving him long weekends with a day of school in between ( he doesn't live closely so has to rent a hotel room ).
First wanted to take the kids out of school, than accusing me of having him left bankrupt as he has hardly any money left while I live comfortably with the children now....,so renting a hotel room would cause financial difficulties ( finally rented two times three nights I a four star hotel).
He finally returned the children on Thursday .
Yesterday both kids told me that OW/NW was telling their father that a the timing wouldn't count so much.
That I had an agenda and plans obviously was of no concern.
I told the kids yesterday what I had planned for them
They called their dad and told him about it.
He got furious and wanted to talk to me. Put the phone down twice to end the discussion, accusing me of a lot of things ( " you always think you are so perfect.....". And "your Daughter only doesn't admit this or that because she is afraid of you" etc.
It was narcissistic rage pure and simple. I could hear OW/NW in the background ...
I don't understand this: why getting at me like this 2 years after the divorce?
Although the law is quite "father- friendly" in my country I don't think a judge would allow kids to be taken out of school, ignoring visiting schedules etc. ?????
Has anyone experienced this kind if behaviour long after new supply is already found?
The kids heard me talking to him ( first time) with the speaker on... What should I tell them ?
BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
Divorced, final 03/12
Needing everything to be the most up to date and fanciest is very typical of my NpDish ex--and many on SI realize after the cheating that their partners were always awful with money, with totally lavish spending habits. Some people's wants have no end; there is no 'enough' for them in material goods or intimate relationships. I agree it's this need for validation seeping into every part of their life. If even non-disordered people use over-consumption as a crutch to fill certain needs, just think how much extreme that becomes when the hole to be filled is so gaping. Yet another thing that clicks into clarity!
It is really hard to undo the pattern of loving someone and being hurt when they spurn us. And of course it's hurtful to see him invested in someone else's health when he couldn't do that for you! But he's trying to hurt you by saying that. The memories you have of better times...that same person really wasn't who you are remembering. You are remembering the mask. Try to replace the good memories with a reminder to yourself--interrupt the look back to say, 'this is the same person who maliciously hurt me'. Looking back and feeding the love on older memories only keeps us stuck on the feelings. I know it's so hard to reconcile the illusion with reality, the heart with the head. But as jj says, focus on YOU. I am reading 'Living and Loving After Betrayal' by Steven Slosny right now and I am finding it really helpful because it is all about stopping your brain from going back to the scene of the crime. It's in the past, honey--the good and the bad. It's normal to have trouble leaving it behind you entirely, but do try, please. You deserve to live a life free of thoughts of him.
May I suggest a book for you? Disarming the Narcissist by Wendy T. Behary is an *excellent* book for understanding NPD and learning to cope with the narcissists in our lives. Honestly, it's an excellent book for anyone to read, regardless of if one has personal relationships tainted by NPD. I learned a ton about myself and my own coping mechanisms and would recommend it to virtually everyone.
Thank you for this reccomendation. I read the whole thing today. Quick read. Highlighted many parts. Very insightful.
The schema theory is so spot on. Was helpful to identify mine and his. The coping mechanisms are very useful-- it amazing how the mind of an NPD works opposite of their schemes that are triggered.
I'd say a must read for anyone that needs to know how to live with, communicated with someone diagnosed with or exhibiting NPD traits.
thank you so much.
My NPD wh has been on the warpath against me for 3 days. It started at 3 am when he woke me up screaming and yelling about how he is sick of me attacking him. When I say "do you acknowledge or recognize on any level that I am living with a very very sad heart and I am managing terrible loneliness" he says, "all you do is attack me."
Now this entire exchange comes on the heels of 2 years of NO physical contact at all..no hugs, kisses NOTHING. I speak only about the kids. I do not tell him anything at all about my life or what I am doing. I keep things very pleasant and VERY shallow. He serioualy does not even notice hahah. Somehow he got to noticing I guess and now he is yelling yelling yelling and pointing out all of my horrible behaviors....another sample
Me, "Hey, what did you buy at the cowboy store?"
Him with shocked, look of indignation on his face and whiney voice says, "I did not buy anything at the cowboy store-I did not even go to the cowboy store!"
Me, genuinely confused, "Oh, well that is weird cause there is a receipt in the car..." <i am interrupted by his blathering, rising hysteria>
Him, "No you didn't! There is not receipt! you didn't find a receipt! I didn't go to the cowboy store!"
Me, "who cares. I dont really care what you bought. I was just making conversation. and YES there is a receipt so SOMEONE went to the cowboy store!"
Him, "I DID NOT GO TO THE COWBOY STORE!"
I left the house.
5 hrs later when I return
Him, "Why did you make such a big deal about the cowboy store? I didnt go to the cowboy store"
hahah...I SWEAR to you all that I did not change ANYTHING in the above conversation except the store name.
At present he is screaming about how "I" spent $5000 last month (Disney trip we take every year),but I want to hold him accountable for $35.00. hahah F(CKING INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So yeah....how is everyone else's day starting?
On Saturday she sent me a picture of the kids and babysitter at the forest.
She knows it's a trigger. She knows it bothers me. She didn't choose to send me pictures the last time she took the kids somewhere, but on this particular one, she does. And she has my DD8 call me from her cell about how much fun she had as they're driving back (like all other calls from her phone, I let it go to voicemail).
I don't know if it's intentional or subconscious. But it's killing me. At least I'm doing well at NC. And I'm at work, so I have something else to concentrate.
10 years of coparenting to look forward to.
Good thing is, at some point it will stop PTSD-triggering me (I actually plan on going myself when I'm healed, to face my demons, because I'm that kind of person - I'm thinking in about a year, maybe less). While it will forever be a symbol of her brokenness.
NPD/BPD are horrible mental diseases.
NPD/BPD are horrible mental diseases.
Yes, so true. And I think I have about ten years of parallel parenting to look forward to as well. Does it end at age 18???
Also, I'm curious: has anyone's spouse here had a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder? In my case, the custody report touched on it a bit. So I've got SA, NPD and a possible sociopath to boot.
I was under the impression that NPD, sociopath, and psychopathy are all part of a spectrum, so it's not surprising that your H would be called a sociopath.
It sucks, but it's not surprising. I always thought my SIL was 'just' narcissistic, but she's actually a sociopath. I think they're a little more dangerous than NPDs.
I'm sorry. Try not to blame yourself, though, because the are SO sparkly and charming, they are hard to resist, until you know the truth.
I know that labels aren't that important, but I would still like to know. The report clearly indicated NPD - I wish I could share it here. After the trial is over, I will cut and paste some of it here.
But it also described what it called "sociopathic behaviors."
So I started googling. With the exception of hurting animals (something I can't imagine STBX doing in a million years), he has every single marker. I re-read the report a few times, and I feel like the psychologist/evaluator is basically saying that he's a sociopath.
What is the tipping point that makes you think your ex is a sociopath more than a narc? And how are they more dangerous?
NPD is a spectrum disorder. Going to the far end of the spectrum (bad end) you find the sociopath and beyond that the psychopath.
Sociopath is someone who has no empathy whatsoever. They view people as things to use for their own purpose. They use with no compulsion of cost to the people they use. They may enjoy using people. They think they are above the law.
A psychopath enjoys hurting someone. Ted Bundy was a psychopath. At the time everyone thought he was extreme, but recently there have been studies showing that a psychopaths brain works very differently than a normal brain. 20/20 did a report on psychopaths about 2years ago. As part of the report they did an interview with a psychopath on death row for murder. He liked killing, he liked watching life leave the eyes. To him it was a rush he couldn't get any where else!
It was honestly the scariest interview I had ever seen.
Edited to ad: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/brutal-psycho-killer-minds/story?id=11461505
[This message edited by Kajem at 8:56 PM, April 21st (Monday)]
Let me look more into 'sociopathic behaviors' and I'll get back to you on what that possibly means, in your situation.
I think I talked to you around Thanksgiving of the year you got here? What I remember is that your H is an attorney? SA? And, at that time, you were afraid he might enter the house at night, during the holiday, and harm you? Is that correct, or do I have the wrong person in my memory?
ETA: This is a list of sociopathic behaviors:
2nd ETA: I stumbled onto the sociopathicworld site (referenced at the very bottom of the page of the above link) a few nights ago and, be warned, it is full of socios. I got cold from the inside, shivering, even though it wasn't really cold, my brain was so overwhelmed, and I had to go to bed and try to warm up and shake off the evil that I saw there.
[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 9:16 PM, April 21st (Monday)]
Does it end at age 18???
What is the tipping point that makes you think your ex is a sociopath more than a narc?
Then again, a person who deals with sex addicts in the rehab setting says he has seen addicts get pretty tangled up inside, so he wasn't sure that X was a sociopath.
It's all just scary as hell to research and think about, isn't it? Sometimes I am surprised that I am as calm as I am!