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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 13
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm working on forgiving myself for falling in love with an illusion! He mirrors emotions, attitudes, etc.. He is a chameleon! He would be able to fit in with the KKK one day and the next day be at a NAACP rally. It is scary when you think about it. He can blend in to any group with his mirroring.

We were great parents together and had a great marriage - I was married to myself!


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4855 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Rainbows
♀ Member
Member # 39362
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the encouragement, open the floodgates. Hopefully, I won't ramble on too much.

It's been a tough road, as I'm sure all of you know. I'm learning so much in this forum and really appreciate the knowledge and information.

My Ex is so charismatic that over the years he isolated me and convinced my friends and family I had all kinds of problems. I've since learned that NPD's love smear campaigns.

Like the boiling frog, I slowly started to believe him and it killed my self-esteem. Now that I've been away from him and mostly NC for a while, I'm starting to see that I'm not some crazy, horrible person.

The Ex went through a brief phase of "working on himself" late last summer and went to a shrink and psychologist. It didn't last long because they were both stupid and "misdiagnosed" him. He said he actually thought OW was NPD (and borderline) and he was her victim.

I thought most of his issues stemmed from the bipolar and addiction, so didn't pay much attention to the NPD. I didn't realize so much of his behavior actually stems from this disorder.

With the restraining order, even though I was terrified of court, I decided that no one was going to care as much about the outcome of my case as much as me.

I told the judge I needed to explain everything that happened after dday because it was important to know the whole story before ruling. I had found emails between Ex and OW where they said a restraining order was the only legal way to get me out of the house.

As I started talking, one of those giant knots (with watery eyes) welled up. It took a minute, but I swallowed the knot, dried my eyes and started again. I had made notes of the lies he told during his testimony because some of them contradicted what he wrote in the statement he filed.

Finally at the end of my testimony, I held up his written statement and pointed out where he contradicted himself under oath. That's when he interrupted me to "correct" his testimony. My jaw literally dropped.

I was stunned speechless and could feel everyone in the room was, too. The judge's face turned red and he snapped that he was ready to rule. He said it was highly unusual, but necessary to put a restraining order on the person who filed in our case. The judge even added a bunch of stuff to it, like he can't disturb my peace or look for my address using a third party.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I sat there and quietly cried (couldn't help it). I was just so relieved that someone finally saw the truth.

I've only told my parents and a couple of friends here on SI and IRL the full story. There's something incredibly comforting and cathartic about being able to share in a place where people understand what I'm up against. This stuff is hard.

Thank you for reading.

There's a lot I don't understand, but was wondering what do NPDs gain from smear campaigns and why do they invest so much energy into them. It seems crazy to me, but my ex is relentless.


There is always a rainbow after every storm.

Posts: 390 | Registered: May 2013 | From: California
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My NPDs (XH and NW) gained sympathy from their public. An excuse when they needed it. And me actually acting crazy trying to disprove their lies!

I was feeding right into their description of me to their friends!

I've got to go but will be back later to finish. Your not alone.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4855 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Rainbows
♀ Member
Member # 39362
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got chills when I read this:

He mirrors emotions, attitudes, etc.. He is a chameleon! He would be able to fit in with the KKK one day and the next day be at a NAACP rally. It is scary when you think about it. He can blend in to any group with his mirroring.

This is my Ex. I'm going to sit with it because I have a feeling this is going to shift and reframe my perspective on a lot of things.


There is always a rainbow after every storm.

Posts: 390 | Registered: May 2013 | From: California
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We were great parents together and had a great marriage - I was married to myself!

K, I got to this point too. Part of forgiving myself was accepting that he "fooled me" because I was a GREAT mirror. He was a better person when he was trying to "fit in with me." He can play "nice." But he is still soulless wearing a human suit.

QA, I have been trained to recognize all sorts of disorders in children. I am bright, discerning, and aware. I had a hard time accepting that I "let this happen." How could I be so blind/stupid? and since I was ... How could I tell people now? The shame and the guilt and the gaslighting- all combined it was nearly debilitating. As for mental health experts? I think there are a few here, but the experience was hard earned.

As for rambling? Ramble away. The self discovery, the light bulb moments, the AHA, me too!!!! acceptance is very healing. Welcome to the new posters.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 4:30 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5611 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Rainbows,

Wow. You really went through a lot. Cudos to you for persevering in court. In answer to your question, I think they act that way (smear campaigns) because they need to feel "one up" from you. Over the years we make it clear that the narc behavior isn't normal, and they assume you are smearing them to others. Thus they try to smear you worse to stay one-up. My ex was like that...

After engrossed reading of many pages of this thread, it's beginning to dawn on me that my ex-husband was the classic NPD, among other things. He is now on his fourth marriage. His third wife, who I knew a little bit, had two children with him. She filed for divorce right before the second one was born. The ex simultaneously demanded a paternity test, denying he was the father, and also filed for sole custody! I swear you cannot make up this level of craziness...he put me through years of custody fights which only ended when my son was old enough for the courts to listen to (12 in Oregon). Now my son is 24 and his only contact is a once yearly text from his NPD dad...asking him about his NCAA picks!

My current WH seemed so much nicer, always doing things for me and my son (from the first marriage), I thought all was ok. And now I find I've done it again; married another. But my IC thinks he's at the lower end of the VNPD scale. She also says it's really important to get him treated now, because if his career ever takes off, he could "go grandiose" on me. Then treatment is much harder.

Here is a really interesting article comparing VNPD and NPD. It's described as kind of like a dial, with "fully defended" (or grandiose) on one end and "vulnerable" on the other.

http://www.drettensohn.com/narcissistic-personality-disorder/


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem, wow, hearing the bit about mirroring was really interesting!

I sometimes feel like my WH reflects my moods back rather than originates them himself. Except for anger. He's really good at anger. His steady state was crabby, and the dial would flip to angry if I made one false move. Then I would get the silent treatment for a couple days. Many times I would have utterly no idea what I'd said that time. I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
Quakingaspen
♀ Member
Member # 41153
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He would be able to fit in with the KKK one day and the next day be at a NAACP rally. It is scary when you think about it. He can blend in to any group with his mirroring.

YES! Totally! I used to tease him because he would come back from work and I would know exactly who he'd been talking to because he'd adopt their accent and slang. Which, honestly is why I am extra suspicious of his "conversion" because he's been hanging out with people at meetings and church.

CG - Yes. I felt like a fraud. But I know better now. I'm actually working on applying some of my new knowledge to some positive work. I have a whole new perspective on emotional abuse that I don't think I even wanted to touch before.


The key is to get to know people and trust them to be who they are. Instead, we trust people to be who we want them to be - and when they're not, we cry.~David Duchovny

WS-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many in 17 years of marriage. LAST time 10/17/2013.


Posts: 120 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well NPD is a spectrum disorder, some of them have small amounts of traits and at the other end of the spectrum we have the sociopaths and psychopaths-you know the NPD who kill because they can and it makes them feel good to kill.

I suspect that XSO is also a narc. I think about it here and there, he's less of a narc than XH. I can see him being a vulnerable NPD. Hmm... I need to sit with that thought .

I don't think dating him was a mistake, the mistake was staying longer than I should have. I learned a lot about myself, and him. In many ways he was like a little boy, innocent in many ways. Too trusting for a man his age. But then XH never trusted anybody.. So what do I know?

Hugs,


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4855 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support.


I'm working on forgiving myself for falling in love with an illusion! He mirrors emotions, attitudes, etc.

Kajem: Exactly! So many people told me that WH was better with me. I noticed that when we were first together, he was mirroring my morals and honesty, etc. The more he was with OW (I didn't know) I saw a change and didn't understand at the time, and now I do.

I sometimes feel like my WH reflects my moods back rather than originates them himself. Except for anger. He's really good at anger. His steady state was crabby, and the dial would flip to angry if I made one false move. Then I would get the silent treatment for a couple days. Many times I would have utterly no idea what I'd said that time. I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells.

hpv: Oh yes!! WH often told me that if I was sad or in a bad mood, it would get him in a bad mood too. (Blaming others as usual) The silent treatment used to drive me insane. I would never know what set him off and like an idiot, I used to beg him to tell me what was wrong. Now, I just act normal when he does it, and that drives him insane because his old controlling tactics are no longer working.

Well NPD is a spectrum disorder, some of them have small amounts of traits and at the other end of the spectrum we have the sociopaths and psychopaths

I believe WH has many, many traits. Is he full blown? I guess enough that a lot of people IRL have mentioned things like entitlement, no empathy, etc without even realizing they are describing Narcissism.

The hardest thing I'm having trouble with is that WH used to throw me crumbs and I was even happy with that. Now, he's not giving any. I think I'm mourning the death of hope. Mourning the death of the idea of who I thought he was. Geez, I was so grateful if he was acting nice! And he acted as though it was a big deal that he was!!

<sigh>


Posts: 1938 | Registered: Jan 2010
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm working on forgiving myself for falling in love with an illusion! He mirrors emotions, attitudes, etc.. He is a chameleon! He would be able to fit in with the KKK one day and the next day be at a NAACP rally. It is scary when you think about it. He can blend in to any group with his mirroring.

Wow. Chills here too.

Let's see:
preppy college party fraternity boy
athlete/lax player (I've mentioned the jackets here - )
Deadhead in ripped patched pants
Hippie crunchy pretty lefty environmentalist
young clean-cut Democrat in fancy suits and red-white-and-blue ties
practically military in bearing (buzz cut, clothing, language - 10-4, Sir!, when he worked for a general)
preppy, perfect successful super dad
dirt bag with long dirty hair, 50 pound weight gain, and bizarre clothing. I spotted him wearing espadrilles lately, with his dirty jeans.

I'm sure I missed lots of identities and uniforms. Like super skier with florescent orange jacket and boots, super hiker with red wool Woolrich jacket with deer on it - haha, and a million other things.

Costumes he puts on when he puts on different identities.

(Rainbows), thank goodness your judge saw through him. You should be so proud of yourself. I understand about the need to forgive yourself. I am the victim of an ongoing smear campaign by NPD STBX and his NPD SA OW. It's been going on for nearly three years. It's wearing me down.


Posts: 1591 | Registered: Oct 2011
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, March 27th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good evening all,

Been busy with life and lovely daughter, but have been catching up on old posts.

Just popping in to send some love out tonight, and....some of the XWS behaviour on this thread lately is creeping me out, specifically the stalker stuff, so I am compelled to share...

about my new toy. Like others here, XWSNPD has pulled some of the odd stalker crazy behaviour, and security for my daughter and I became a concern for me. Expensive security systems were out of the question, so a friend turned me onto this little camera. It is sort of like a nanny cam...motion activated. It is not perfect, but only about $70 on Amazon. It takes 6 pics of wherever you have it pointed when motion sets it off, and sends you an email. Like I said, it is not perfect, but it is way better than nothing. And if anything hinky happens, you have some proof. No monthly fees. It is a bit of a bear to set up if you are not computer savvy, but worth every penny and bit of effort for the peace of mind it has brought.

Foscam is the name.

Gosh, I hope I don't sound crazy....could just be that darned PTSD talking! No matter, I feel better having it. And I would feel even better if a few of you guys had something like it,too.

Please be safe, tribe. NPD rage is not something to be taken lightly.

OK, security issues aside, my heart goes out to each of you, especially the new members. We are a special bunch brought together by a "special" breed. We will survive and we will thrive. If you are new here, a warm welcome to you. At almost 4 years out, I can tell you "it" hasn't gotten much better...but I have!

PS....I don't work for Foscam.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 674 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, March 28th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm. Spectrum disorder. So if I combine that with the article I read that describes them as a dial (with "vulnerable" (VNPD) on one end, and "fully defended" (grandiose NPD) on the other...some can swing back and forth in a borderline insane manner, while others swing back and forth in a somewhat manageable fashion.

I imagine standing in a hardware store, choosing among a whole set of dials. First I chose a rusted-out rotten one, that when turned, dialed all the way up to near-sociopath (aka my Ex). He was truly crazy-making.

This time I chose a shinier dial, my WS, which was turned pretty close to the middle (but slightly VNPD) when we first met. At one point in our relationship, he had a good job where he felt important. Then the dial was turned up toward grandiose NPD. I noticed that he often fired people, more than average. The ones who were fired (or left) seemed competent, while those who stayed seemed like compliant yes-men.

After we moved, my career took off and my WS is now in a job he dislikes. Then the dial was turned way down toward VNPD, where he was the victim, who suffered in a crummy job because it's all my fault (somehow), and he felt one-down. My IC thinks he had the EAs because he no longer felt I needed him, and also felt like he had to "even things out."

So I view it as some dials are manageable, sort of, while others never should have been pulled out of the dusty box way up in the corner of the hardware store.

Thanks, guys. I feel like I'm learning a lot already.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, March 28th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bent, I don't know whether you're joking, but I definitely went through PTSD after discovering my WS's EAs. It was awful. I spent about six months where I could barely function...it triggered a lot of deep FOO issues. I borderline lost my memory for awhile, and started believing my WS's BS.

He told his IC and our MC that I was abusive, and I bought it. Earlier in our marriage, while under extreme stress at work, and fighting custody battles with my Ex, I did call my WS a few names. I said he was "acting like a baby" when he was sick, and he asked me to take care of him (while I was working 80+ hours), for example. I was impatient and rude at times. Afterwards, I felt terrible, so much so that I carried around an index card to work on myself. And I did.

That was in 1996. My WS never forgot it, and told the MC that I constantly put him down and called him names. For example, his description of a "put down" was from three years ago: my loudly saying "what are you doing?"

Except he left off the rest...I walked into the basement to find my WS using a jackhammer on a bearing wall. I was loud so he could hear me over the noise. I incredulously said "what are you doing?? Do you know that's a bearing wall?!"

I am not proud of my behavior from earlier in our marriage. But I changed. And the PTSD triggered from his gas lighting made me lose my memory to the point I became intensely approval seeking with him and believed his BS that I was a terrible wife. I was supposed to be perfect, and when I wasn't, he never forgave it.

The reality is that he cheated, and his VNPD made him really believe that I was abusive, he was the victim, and he couldn't stand that the MC was treating ME like the victim. He spent the summer after d-day raging at me about every slight he'd held onto for 20 years...I was shocked. I'd never seen the scorecard up on the wall.

Sorry to go on and on...I've just had a lot built up. The last year has been hell.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, March 28th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding the scorecard: XH had one also! He always brought it up when he thought I was getting to big for my britches. AKA happier than he wanted me to be! Or winning an argument on an entirely different matter, it was used to distract me on many occasions.

Ugh


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4855 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
tothineownself
♀ Member
Member # 20158
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, March 28th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I know and have read the narc can't take even the slightest questioning, disagreement or criticism.

They perceive it as abuse and that they are being belittled and are the victim if we do not agree with everything they do and say.

Had an IC session yesterday and she jumped at my comment on how imbalanced my WH seemed after not seeing or talking to him for 9 weeks. I was in the middle of saying I didn't know if he actually WAS having a break from reality or if he always acted this way and I just didn't see how extreme it was because it was a day to day flow of abusive things he did to me.

She immediately said, YES! He has always been this way! (She was our MC for about 6 months) You are just seeing it more clearly and objectively because you aren't living it.

Rainbows, you are amazing! To have all the documentation and the guts to do what you did! SO happy that the judge saw things as they really were. Scares the shit out of me however because that will be the exact type of thing my NPDWH will do.

He is already telling outlandish untrue stories of the abuse he suffered at my hands. One downfall for him is that he doesn't have any proof because it DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

I on the other hand have photos and timelines and printed phone records. Just sucks to have to use them to defend myself.

Shame on those women and men that LIE about abuse to "win" in court! It makes it that much harder for the true victims.


”This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.”-Shakespeare-Hamlet
Forget the pants,( you weren't wearing them anyway!)
It's liar, liar SOUL's on FIRE!!

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: illinois
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, March 28th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
I am looking into EMDR for PTSD when this is over. I've heard good things about it.

Anyhow, I'm really posting because I'm struggling here. I'm afraid the custody evaluator is going to give STBX some more visitation - and perhaps some overnights.

I posted in the divorce thread, but how do I start to prepare my kids, 8 and 9, for this? I have told them nothing about the reasons for the breakdown of the marriage except the standard "not getting along" stuff, and that's not working anymore. They are three years older now and want a better explanation.

And how do I prepare such young kids for the possibility of them seeing violent pornography or hearing violent sexual jokes, or God forbid something way way worse????????????????????????????


Posts: 1591 | Registered: Oct 2011
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caregiver gave you excellent advice CH, I couldn't think of anything she didn't cover.

I wish I could put a protective bubble around some kids.

Hugs,


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4855 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Choosing,

As you research the best thing to do for the children, keep in mind that as they get older and they see more of their father's life, what they could be told will change. You're looking at a moving target.

So while that complicates things, it also takes some pressure off finding the right things to say. Unfortunately, you'll have lots of opportunities to present information to them as the years go by. It gives you time to keep learning as you go.

My therapist has been a huge help to me in this process. She is a CSAT and an abuse advocate. I struggled with so much and talking with her was like having somewhere to go to have the light switched on.

{{{ hugs }}}


Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010
Quakingaspen
♀ Member
Member # 41153
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, March 29th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hugs))) CH. Sorry you're going through this. One site I found helpful so far with preparing to talk to the kids was:
http://www.copmi.net.au/parents-and-families/parents/discussing-mental-illness.html
They have some nice age-specific recommendations. I like Compartmented's idea. I wish there was a CSAT I could go to. Hopefully once I move there will be better resources.

As for me, I have told my youngest mainly that our relationship wasn't working because we each had different ideas of how to take care of and talk to the people we love. I like how this has made my kids focus on how they want to be treated in a relationship. The older ones know that WH acknowledges the SA, and that his manner of communicating is very immature in part because of this.

I am in full head-in-sand mode. He TT'd me this week. Out of the blue and totally randomly, he decided it was important to ... something and sent me a really long email that I read last night, thankfully after preparing myself. Clearing up some more of the lies because he wanted to let me in on how he was thinking or something. Anyway, he played such emotional hits as 'I was blindsided too', 'We share the blame for this' and 'since you didn't give me the intimacy and connection I needed (after the next to last DD), we're both guilty'. Then he requested to sit down with our two oldest and explain to them about his disease (SA) and how nothing he did was intentional or malicious.

Um... how about no?! They are both hurt and angry with him since he decided to act like they don't exist when they didn't fall into the "everything's fine" line with him. Having to sit through a long self-serving lecture where he tosses responsibility out the window is not going to help them. He has completely fallen in love with his own voice.

I haven't responded yet. I'm getting good at this NC stuff. His new revelations bother me because he admits to more stalking behavior, and I am a little perplexed about why he'd be disclosing this stuff to me now, besides looking for a reaction and probably trying to build the fear. Geez Louise what a creep I've wasted too much time on.


The key is to get to know people and trust them to be who they are. Instead, we trust people to be who we want them to be - and when they're not, we cry.~David Duchovny

WS-SA/NPD
D-Day: Too many in 17 years of marriage. LAST time 10/17/2013.


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