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User Topic: I Need Ideas for Appropriate Boundaries?
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, my IC told me that I needed to write a concrete list for my WH on things he can do to make me feel safe (see my previous post). I know that I will need to clarify with her what she means exactly by "concrete." As in, does that mean I can never add to these boundaries as other needs arise? If so, I feel that would be short-sighted. Am I wrong?

Sorry rambling.

Back to the original question. I have written up a list, but wanted to know of any other ideas or things that others felt they needed to feel "safe" in order to move forward.

Here is what I have so far:

1. Total Transparency.

This includes: a list of all email accounts (with passwords) and all blogs/sites you belong to (with passwords); voice mail password; Do not erase call history, texts, pictures, message history, and computer browser history.

Show me these things periodically without my asking.

2. If the OW breaks NC, you must inform me immediately.

3. Let me know your daily schedule without my asking.

4. Let me know if or when you will be late; you have to stand duty; or you need to go in early without my asking.

5. Inform our friend of your A with his sister via email and send me copies of all correspondence and responses without my asking.

*This is required because we now have to end our 20+ year friendship with this couple, because my WH had the A with the man's sister.

6. You must show me that you are willing to continue to work on your sobriety, whether through AA meetings or treatment. (I will no longer raise my children around or stay married to an active alcoholic).

7. You need to continue to attend IC so that you can look deep within yourself to find out the reason why you were thought it was okay to be unfaithful to me.

8. We will need to continue MC until our MC deems us worthy of release.

9. You cannot have any relationships with other women, unless they are professional or with a family member.

10. You must change the way you speak to and interact with other women. All speech and interaction can be nice, but should always be professional.

11. You cannot react in a defensive manner when I discuss the A or I get angry over your actions in regards to the A. It makes me feel like you are hiding something else and/or feel no remorse.

If you feel that you are getting upset, you will let me know in a gentle, calm and kind way that you need a break to calm down.

12. You need to realize that by always focusing on your own shame, regret and pain when we discuss the A, you are being selfish and overshadowing my pain and betrayal.

The pain that you feel is from your own actions. The pain that I am feeling is from your own actions. I did not betray. Idid not cause this pain.

How does this sound? Is it reasonable? Any additional ideas? Thanks for any help!


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you are on the right path though the way some are worded they sound more like rules rather than boundaries. I still have a very hard time with boundaries so I'm not qualified to give you suggestions.

I do want to say, I think it's bullshit we have to draw these sort of lines in the sand in the first place. Most of these should be a given!


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

they sound more like rules rather than boundaries

Is there a difference? I guess I am unsure too. My IC said him what he needs to do so that you feel safe. I just called them boundaries. I think she wanted me to establish rules? Heck, I don't know!

I do want to say, I think it's bullshit we have to draw these sort of lines in the sand in the first place. Most of these should be a given!

I agree 1000000%. I mean, I had no problem following these principles. Why they hell was it so hard for my WH?


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boundaries are about you, rules are about them. So instead of saying "you will give me complete transparency" you say "I will not tolerate anything less than transparency". The way it's been explained to me is with rules you give away power because the outcome depends on their action whereas with boundaries the outcome is dependent on your reaction. We can't control others, we can only control how we react. It's an idea I'm still trying to grasp.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree.

"I need complete transparency in our relationship in order to begin to rebuild feeling safe, this includes..."

"In order to feel safer in our marriage, I need you to attend AA or other alcohol treatment. I will no longer allow myself or our children to continue to live with an active alcoholic."

"In order to begin to rebuild trust, I need to know your work schedule, when you need to go in early or stay late and I need to know these things without having to ask."

Does that make sense? Make them "I" statements vs. "You".


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

#9

Your professional relationship with any woman will only concern the business. No discussions about anything personal, even your preference for clouds or sunshine. Nothing. Nada. All one on one meetings in office only. No coffee shops, no restaurants, nothing. Practice ways to deflect if you have to. Being professional does not have to include personal time or personal conversation.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1458 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your list itself is great, I would just reword it.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The way it's been explained to me is with rules you give away power because the outcome depends on their action whereas with boundaries the outcome is dependent on your reaction. We can't control others, we can only control how we react.

Makes sense. Of course, easier said than done.

The scary thing is that my IC pretty much told me to make rules, sit back and if he doesn't do them. Leave. I asked our MC about this and he doesn't agree. Especially since it has only been 2 1/2 months and I am more than willing to leave.

The main reason I am still here, besides my children, is that I don't want to make a decision based on the volatile emotions I am feeling now. I feel that I need some time. I just need to feel some form of safety before I even consider reconciliation.

Does that make sense?


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does that make sense? Make them "I" statements vs. "You".

Yes. That does make sense. Thank you!


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All one on one meetings in office only.

I agree if this were possible. Unfortunately, in his line of work they are more often in the field than in an office. Either way, I agree, no one-on-one meetings.

Practice ways to deflect if you have to. Being professional does not have to include personal time or personal conversation.

I agree.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Makes perfect sense! I'm in a similar position although I still haven't laid out my boundaries yet. Hmmm something to work on today.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some of my rules /boundaries/whatever (I dont care what you call it..I only care that he does it)

read on SI and ask questions there when you need to
read Not Just Friends with me

Start discussing your thought processes with me, no secrets, not even in your head. It was the thought processes that led him down the slippery slope so now we are working on arresting those before they get out of hand.

He has been wonderful about doing all this but I have also been very supportive of him as he does the hard work of confronting his own inner demons.

Learning new boundaries are difficult and take time. I don't expect perfection from him all the time, but I do expect when he slips up a little on them to come to me immediately so we can discuss what happened and brainstorm together so it doesn't happen again.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15195 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
MercifulH
♂ New Member
Member # 42045
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your list reads more like a list of rules. There is a slight difference. Boundaries are things that apply to both of you. It is sort of like a list of rules, but they apply to both of you. My counselor put it pretty well the other day. Boundaries are like a bubble that is around both of you, not just one person. You are both inside that bubble together and you both get to choose who is allowed to come inside that bubble to visit you both and who is not. And you also don't let anyone stay inside that bubble. That bubble is for you two and nobody else.

Boundaries aren't meant to be a punishment for someone that has shown themselves to be unfaithful. It is about setting a standard for both of you that will ensure that you only have healthy relationships with other people. Most of your list is very good, but it just needs to be reworded to sound less like a list of demands. Every boundary that you want to apply to him should apply to you as well, otherwise it isn't a boundary, it is something you are making him do as a consequence.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be consequences. Things have changed in your marriage just as they have in mine, but you don't want to come off in a way that sounds like you are punishing him, it is a consequence for his actions that you are taking to make yourself feel more secure. He needs to work on himself to make you feel more secure in yourself and your marriage. Don't treat it like a punishment though. He needs to feel safe with you as well or he won't be able to be honest with you. Fear of punishment will make lots of people hide things.

[This message edited by MercifulH at 10:56 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Me - BS 27
Her - WW 26 (Neveragain1221)
Started Dating 12/08/07
Married 04/03/12
D-day#1 05/02/12 Gaslighting, Rugsweeping
D-day#2 01/03/14 Confrontation about D-day#1, got confession
4 year EA and PA, TT, Affair began less than 1 year after we

Posts: 30 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Minnesota
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Start discussing your thought processes with me, no secrets, not even in your head. It was the thought processes that led him down the slippery slope so now we are working on arresting those before they get out of hand.

I like this one. I may have to steal it!


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boundaries aren't meant to be a punishment for someone that has shown themselves to be unfaithful. It is about setting a standard for both of you that will ensure that you only have healthy relationships with other people. Most of your list is very good, but it just needs to be reworded to sound less like a list of demands. Every boundary that you want to apply to him should apply to you as well, otherwise it isn't a boundary, it is something you are making him do as a consequence.

I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I suppose I should reword them and title them as my IC called them: "Things I Need From You to Help Me Feel Safe."

I do agree with my IC when she stated that I have boundaries. I have always respected our boundaries. He obviously did not.

Therefore, I have no problem having these items apply to me, as they always have and I have always respected them.

My IC also pointed out that my WH, on the other hand, chose to disregard the boundaries established in our relationship, therefore he should have to follow rules until he can prove, by his actions, that he will respect our marriage and it's boundaries.

I feel that he does deserve consequences for his actions. I am not going to give someone my trust, especially after they threw it away the first time, by simply believing their word and seeing no action on their part.

The definition of boundary does make more sense now though. I also agree that the wording on my list needs to say "I need from you" (or something similar) versus "You must."

Although, honestly, these things are "musts" in my book and if he does not do these things then he can pack his bags and get out.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 213 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Topic Posts: 15

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