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User Topic: Why do women seem worst then men
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

are so over the top. Cruel.

Yet, he thought that we had a great marriage. And that his secret life wasn't affecting us at all. He was completely unaware of how he treated me. But all of it was to keep me at arms length, lest I uncover his secrets. It is very hard to reconcile the man I married, the man I was married to during 2013, and the man I am married to right now. It's like they are three different men.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2286 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
circe
♀ Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think our own experiences seem worse because they happen to us. And then when we read of others who have similar experiences we really notice it, because it reminds us of our own.

Your WW cheated, and you notice and read and relate to the stories of men whose WWs cheated and it seems like a pattern to you, that WWs are somehow in the fog longer, cling harder, are in limbo longer. You're less emotionally invested in the stories of someone's WH because you don't relate as much, so it's easier to think their stories are less "bad".

It's the same with EAs versus PAs, or whether the AP was beautiful or butt ugly. Our own experience is so painful that we sometimes end up completely weirdly being jealous of others who experienced a different kind of pain, thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as the pain we're feeling now. And we're almost always wrong, as the other person is at their own rock bottom and often thinking the same of someone else.


Posts: 3193 | Registered: Mar 2005
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^ Exactly!

It is not only a generalization but also insulting to other's pain. I'm sorry you are hurting. I'm sorry that your WW has hurt you this much.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think circe nails it:

Our own experience is so painful that we sometimes end up completely weirdly being jealous of others who experienced a different kind of pain, thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as the pain we're feeling now.

Male vs. female, LTA vs. ONS, PA vs. EA, single vs. multiple, "luurrrvvveee" vs. "just sex", "we had a good M" vs. "we had issues", ....

Who knows what is "better" or "worse".... we all just know that what we are personally feeling hurts so very bad. It's all we can really understand.

And, in all honesty, although it is hard for me to wrap my head around sometimes: the WS's have their own level of pain for all sorts of different reasons, but their pain is real too. It is.

I don't think it is fully possible for any of us to fully understand the pain that another feels. All we can do is our best to empathize and show our support to everyone on this site!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 710 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually I have seen a type of this proposed in books written my Psychologists and Counselors in books about recovering from affairs.

The point they made was that WW tend to form more of a emotional bond with their AP than do WM. It is also proposed by these same people that WW are more apt to have EXIT affairs where WM just want to saw off a little on the side. So there are *authorities* out there that are pushing this belief.

Personally I dont buy it. The BM and BW here that are dealing with unremorseful WS seem (to me) to be having equally difficult times. To me. Remorse and empathy and willingness to do what ever necessary to R is not related to gender. Its more related to brokenness.

YMMV


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
2yrsblind
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Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting topic. A few years ago I came across a study that stated women (90% of those asked) say they feel little to no guilt for their affairs. (Google it) I think it has to do with what MOST people have to do to rationalize cheating or make it ok. For men its not about how he directly feels about his BW therefore, any blameshifting is normally an excuse after being caught. Women on the other hand tend to justify BEFORE the affair crosses the line. In doing so they tend to demonize the BH, then re-enforce those feelings thoughout the affair.

REF the book A passion for more: wives reveal the affairs that make or break marriage


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
circe
♀ Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get that it's appealing to make it about gender, because then it's not about your spouse and it's not about you (it's not about you regardless, but in our heads we can make it that way sometimes). If you pose it as a gender issue then it's something outside either of your control, it's a factor hard wired in to her by virtue of her gender. And then it's less personal.

IMO we go through stages of alternately wanting it to be something we as BS did so we then have the power to fix it ourselves, and stages of being drawn to the idea of it being something outside our control, and outside our WS control as well, because it's sometimes less painful to blame something outside.

Just throwing it out there. I went through those stages, too.


Posts: 3193 | Registered: Mar 2005
LostSamurai
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Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I read and seen. Women get more attached and make the recovery process a lot harder. Men on the other hand just act dumb and get just as addicted but are more quicker to put their tails between their leg and high tail it back.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1041 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
circe
♀ Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I read and seen. Women get more attached and make the recovery process a lot harder. Men on the other hand just act dumb and get just as addicted but are more quicker to put their tails between their leg and high tail it back.

Ok, let's go with this. You've had this realization, now how will you use this to help you heal?


Posts: 3193 | Registered: Mar 2005
hikingwithkoda
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Member # 41891
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know, this question seems to fall right in line with the old "Men are dogs, of course they're gonna look for a little somethin-somethin on the side" crap. For every generality, there are a million exceptions. What men or women "tend" to do means nothing in my (or your) particular situation. Read Circe's messages again. Great wisdom and THE question that you need to answer.


Me: BH, 50
Her: WW, 50
D-Day 12/27/2013 3-month PA with family friend

But also:
Me: WH, 50
Her: BW, 50
D-day: 12/27/2013 (about A that happened 14-15 years ago w/coworker)


Posts: 69 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Southern California
whiteflower99
♀ Member
Member # 13937
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I first read this it made me mad. I'm sorry but 18 years worth of lies and potential OC, giving me STD's...
no sorry.
Cruelty is not gender specific.


What are you pretending not to know?

me FBS
him idiotic sex addicted, hormone addled, porn watching, post pubescent male with a walking hard on for anything without a penis
4 kids 15 13 12 8
Earned my *F* the hard way; no longer defining mysel


Posts: 1746 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Greensboro, NC
Simple
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Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I read and seen. Women get more attached and make the recovery process a lot harder. Men on the other hand just act dumb and get just as addicted but are more quicker to put their tails between their leg and high tail it back

I call bullsh*t. Sorry if I offended you but that generalization is useless and offensive by itself. It WILL NOT help you in your healing or your WW's path to fix her brokenness. THIS generalization just gives HER an excuse more than anything.

Plenty of WH marry their OW and they end up married for years. My father for one never really "got it" and continued to blame my mother for his actions till the day he died.

Plenty of BW here will tell you "What the fuck do you mean by that? That BW have it easier?"

Gender, sexual orientation, etc. from reading here for years have taught me that all those don't matter.

This is right on which I feel was glossed over:

I think our own experiences seem worse because they happen to us. And then when we read of others who have similar experiences we really notice it, because it reminds us of our own.

It's the same with EAs versus PAs, or whether the AP was beautiful or butt ugly. Our own experience is so painful that we sometimes end up completely weirdly being jealous of others who experienced a different kind of pain, thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as the pain we're feeling now. And we're almost always wrong, as the other person is at their own rock bottom and often thinking the same of someone else.

Think of it this way: "boys will be boys" which means they will fuck around. For YEARS and in different generations, having a mistress was something husbands do, period. It's not for women cause wives are supposed to be pure and ladylike. This brought on a female vs female mentality of she's a whore, I'm a lady. I just hope that people realize that women will cheat just as much as men, and have been since time began. That assholes come from both genders, all races, all tax brackets, etc.

Get over the biased gender generalizations. They are a waste of your energy and brain functions.

[This message edited by Simple at 4:08 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I read and seen. Women get more attached and make the recovery process a lot harder. Men on the other hand just act dumb and get just as addicted but are more quicker to put their tails between their leg and high tail it back.

Brother, sorry you're hurting. Both sexes have difficulty seeing out of their belly buttons.

Cruelty is non-gender specific.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
chetristezza
♀ New Member
Member # 42233
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Cruelty is non-gender specific. "

Actually, it's very gender specific.

I guess I don't understand how saying something is different in any way discounts or generalizes at all. In fact the mere definition of different avoids that.

I don't think many that are up in arms on this thread would disagree that women are viewed differently than men in many areas. Infidelity and multiple partners are just two that leap out to me.

I realize the original post was quantitative, but think it's an interesting discussion.


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2014
2yrsblind
♂ Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I read this, I get that he is asking or suggesting that women are harder to deal with after they have been involved in an A. While you can never throw a blanket over all situations, stats and studies show that by the numbers he is correct.

I'm a numbers guy, and the numbers say that 2/3 of unfaithful wives think of leaving the marriage for OM while 1/17 of husbands think about it. The numbers alone suggest that R with women after an A will be more difficult in general. Simply because most women don't know which guy they want, while most men want the wife.

This doesn't go to who is in more pain. No one can judge anothers pains. Its simply goes to numbers backing that most cases where the wife is unfaithful its more difficult to R. Couple that with fewer men even being willing to take back an unfaithful wife, as compared to women taking back unfaithful husbands

[This message edited by 2yrsblind at 9:31 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
Monsterslayer
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Member # 23360
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't comment what it is like to be a BW, and I would never try to compare pain. Everyone feels the knife twist in their own special way.

I will suggest that it would appear to be less acceptable for a married mom to have an A, then a married Dad, by society's standards. I know the shame and guilt I saw on my FWW when we went out during our early R days. It was so hard for her to not see herself branded with the scarlet A.

I see this in many FWW working on R. While I see shame, guilt and remorse on FWH working on R, it does not seem to be so all encompassing. Rebuilding her self esteem and confidence, ignoring the whispers and outright questions, and forgiving herself was the hardest part of R for her.

I think many WW never get to this place, can't overcome the scarlet A and give up on R, or themselves.

What ever side you are on it is the worst...

[This message edited by Monsterslayer at 10:48 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


Me BH 49 her FWW 49
Dday June 2, 08
Married 22 yrs at time of A

Posts: 197 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Canada
FeelingSoMuch
♂ Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that to a guy women seem worse because it's easier for us to connect with other guys going through a similar experience.

Notice that I used the word "seem."

I read posts from women here that make me feel they married monsters.

Also, some people are posting here because their husbands went to a prostitute. Women don't do that. Good luck finding a male prostitute. When guys sleep with prostitutes, there's no emotional attachment. If your WW had an EA in addition to the PA, that's a lot of added pain.

On the other hand, dudes who use prostitutes cause a world of pain that we can't understand because that's not what our WWs did.

To sum it up, it's probably all about perspective. It all hurts :)


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
purplejacket4
♀ Member
Member # 34262
Default  Posted: 1:37 AM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I find it more reprehensible what WW do to their children who they carried in their own womb. That's why the saying is "maternal instinct." To have your own mother throw you and your family away for her own selfish luurve sickens me.

That's me as the BC (betrayed child) talking.


Me: BS 45
Her: fWS 48 (same sex partner)
Together: 18 years now (both MDs)
OW: meh so what 40s PhD
DD1: 10/30/11EA; DD2: 11/10/11 Had ONS; TT until 12/26/11; broke NC 6/12; NC again 7/12; R-ish

Posts: 2239 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Great Southwest
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think one look at the kind of bottom feeding, shit eating, worthless loser scum that would abandon a pregnant wife and his kids should be evidence enough that the concept of worse is just a matter of what you're standing close to.

eta:

I don't think it's any more reprehensible for a woman to abandon her kids than for a man to. Yes, she carried them for 9 months, and I have no idea what that is like. No woman, on the flipside, has any idea what it feels like to be a father and the kind of bonds that develop there.

I can't really identify with a woman who abandons her kids, because I don't get the process. I can look at a man who does that and see the most vile and wretched thing there is.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 6:35 AM, January 31st (Friday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7477 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Thefly559
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Member # 40268
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brother. I understand My stbxww did all the things you describe and really bad. I went and am in an emotional disaster. Yet I speak to betrayed woman and our feelings are paralleled. I think it boils down to most women especially in exit affairs cheat with emotion , deep emotion . There usually is no recovery from this and if it happened to you I am sorry. Men for the most part just let the little head think for the big then emotion comes second. Just my thought and opinion . Does not matter which way you get killed you are still dead. Stay strong brother.


"what does not kill you , makes you stronger"

Posts: 678 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc
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