She just turned 30 last week - the surgeries were last October. Since I've known her she has had a fear of being left behind and/or missing out. I'd thought that it was something she'd outgrown.
Thanks for the suggestion about the other options to get the WW out (if it comes to that). This could become a workable solution if I can straighten out some details with work. Right now I leave at 5am and pick up my DD at 515pm four days a week, so it might be rough hours for some people. But my kid sister still lives at home and teaches nearby...she might be up for something like this.
In the meantime I'll keep posting as the 180 progresses. Thanks again everyone for the comments! It feels good to not have to suffer in silence anymore!
Having said that, what the hell did i just read?!
You seem really calm considering you are describing something i think most people would find completely unacceptable. You find out she's been cheating, you confront...and nothing happens. You find out she's cheating, you confront...and nothing happens. She has never had to face any consequences for inappropriate behavior. And when she got caught cheating, she managed to turn it around on you and chastise you for snooping! And what's worse is that you let her. She drove a knife through your back, and you're apologizing for looking through her computer!?!?
Read what you wrote and tell me this is a relationship you genuinely want to be a part of.
Normally i would say file for divorce simply for the shock factor of bringing your WS out of her affair fog, but here file for divorce and run! You cannot "fix" her. Since you have a greater bond with your child, force through the best deal you can get.
Furthermore, expose this to both families. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and if you think "but what if that ruins any chance of our marriage getting better" - what marriage?!?! Get some self-respect and move on. You deserve to be happy.
[This message edited by ZedLeppelin at 9:54 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
Illinois offers the option of filing for a 'fault' divorce.....just sayin'.
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
- she still wears her wedding ring
- she talks about us going to her cousins wedding (who was just engaged and isn't getting married for at least a year)
- she was talking about future vacations together on the last one
I'm sorry, I'm gonna be blunt here, but THERE IS NO CONFUSION AT ALL! You are a total doremat and you allow your wife to have sex with others. You have allowed this for your entire relasionship. So there is no confusion at all on her part.
1) She has sex with who she wants
2) You pay the bills
3) You take care of the kids
That is it. That's what it Always have been and what she likes to keeps so yes she wants to stay with you but she will continue doing what she wants and you have nothing to say about it.
You should never have married your wife. You should have dumbped here when she wanted to try others during college.
You should file for divorce right now and never look back. Have som self respect man! Grow some balls! That is ofcause if you don't enjoy and get truned on by h´being a cuckold....
Your wife seems very very deeply disturbed and you are way way too nice, way too understanding.
You have the general good heartedness, which is a beautiful thing, but you gotta work on boundaries and limits big time.
It might take time for you but for now review 180 and read about codependency. You need awareness of how badly you have compromised yourself.
You're definitely not the only one who's been too nice too long. And start now to change that. It's the absolute best thing you may ever do for yourself!!!!
Sorry for your pain.
She seems to interpret her self-worth as being bound to youth and how desirable she looks - not to her husband - but to others. My first thought was, is she a sexual abuse survivor? Also wondering if she is she a narcissist - as in NPD?
You seem like a very rational, if over-accommodating guy; the frog in the pot of water.
Maverick - you are being cooked! See the atty.
[This message edited by Take2 at 8:11 AM, January 5th (Sunday)]
Sending you great strength to get through this mess. In my opinoin, your WW is a cake eater, a fence sitter and in her FOG. Why should she do anything different, as so far there have been no consequences.
As so many have recommended...you need to do the 180, and get her into IC as well as you into IC and eventually MC (assuming you both want to R)
You also need to out the "A" to the AP's faithful spouse. His wife needs to know what is going on her marriage.
My WW has not gone for cosmetic surgeries...but during her "A" she spent enormous amounts of $$ on cosmetics, wrinkle go away cremes... facial and body polishes... you name it she purchased it
The month i found out about her "A", i had taken $38G out of savings over the previous 4 months to pay for all her charge card purchases. on cosmetics, clothes, monalo-blanchik and christian loubitan (spelling?) shoes...panty hose that cost $60.00 pair. that she never wore them with me. $900.00 night presidental suite hotel cost for hookups in the city.
You must have a remoursful WW to "R". It took quite a while for my WW to de-tox her AP and then de-fog herself...i gave her that patience even though i was dying in the inside becasue of our D's eating disorder. (she had threatened suicide multiple times)
YOur WW may also have NPD? only her IC can help her with that.
you will recieve a lot of good advice from your SI friends, we we have been there before you... we know all the tricks Waywards try to pull to blameshift...and TT and issue avoid
When you ask her "WHY", if her answer includes anyone other than herself, she is on the wrong track and needs to dig deeper. YOU need the full story, all the details.. .whatever you feel you need to heal. I am fearful you are only at tip of the ice-berg with your WW.
When you out the "A" to her AP's faithful wife, do not tell your WW, just do it. thats what i did and it was the best thing to kill the "A". I was prompted by my SI friends to out the "A" to his wife and am so grateful to this day I followed their guidance.
Hang in there brother... sending you strength ..this is a long journey and you both have to be on the same page for "R" to occur.
her WW- 57
7 yr LTA (PA & EA) with her former boss
one D-24 yrs old- former eating disorder now OCB
married 25 yrs
in "R" and its been roller-coaster
confronted 6 wks later (dropped 35# in those 6 wks and spent 2 days in the hospital with severe chest pains--thought I was having a heart attack)
I contacted AP's faithful wife outed their "A" (she knew nothing)and we both kept tabs on our waywards
True NO Contact- July 2012
Fog, denials, blame shifting, rub sweeping, TT selfish, stubborn...lots of mal-adapted coping skills, no boundaries...you name it and she did it but things are finally getting better very slowly
its a long road....and painful and she finally understands the true value and extent of the gift I gave her in both "R" and not telling anyone about her "A"
Your wife has serious issues and is very selfish.
She had an affair. Maybe she still is.
Worse she has held any physical intimacy from you for a while.
Hell on your vacation she was in the bars talking to OM instead of with you.
You have no marriage.
See an attorney.
Contact her parents. Bring them into your home for a sit down and explain to them and your wife that the marriage is a sham.
Have a plan to separate or just divorce.
Do not bluff. Your wife has cheated you on a true, monogamous marriage.
Stop letting her cheat you and let her know you will no longer accept her sham of a marriage.
Maybe your inlaws will offer to assist the two of you with the condo so she can move out.
Or maybe you can leave on weekends to go there and your wife can have full responsibility for your daughter for the 1st time in her life.
It is about time she grew up and accepted some responsibility.
My weekend idea is to leave her with her kid so she cannot go off with the OM.....
[This message edited by happyman64 at 11:04 AM, January 5th (Sunday)]
If I can't leave without jeopardizing my legal position in the future and can't logistically ask her to leave, what other consequences are there if she refuses to break things off with the OM? Stay the course and see what develops?
The consequence is that you will not be a part of her life anymore....except for dealing with your child.
Stop selling yourself short. You deserve so much better than this. While your wife may be attractive on the outside, she seems to be an ugly, vile person underneath. Sorry that I am talking about your wife that way, but that is the picture I am being painted.
What would you do if she filed for divorce tomorrow? What if she said she wants out?
The answer is that the world will not end. You might even find some sense of relief after you get past the shock.
No marriage is guaranteed. But her sense of entitlement is insatiable. She has deep rooted issues that only she can address. In the meantime, you and your child are collateral damage. You have the ability to get out of this mess, but are hesitant to take action.
My friend, inaction IS an action---just the wrong one. Just as you would be willing to work on your marriage, you have to be willing to work on ridding it also---because it is toxic. What emotions need to settle? What has you wife done besides say that she will check out counseling. Does that sound sincere?
Talk is cheap. Her actions have shown you what she cares about---herself.
It is time for you to put you and you child first. She needs your protection----ironically, from her mother.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
It’s good to see that much of what 180 describes are things I’ve already started doing – essentially preparing for the worst case. She knows that I’ve been reconnecting with old friends, talking to old employers, and looking into ways to reduce my commute. Last night she asked if we wanted to stay in for a movie night. We kept to our respective sides of the beds and I pretty much stuck to the rules. Turned out to be an uneventful event.
I contacted a lawyer this morning to arrange for an initial consultation. Not going to file…just make sure I’m comfortable with her handling my case, get some simple recommendations for do’s and don’ts, and find out what more I can do to help her if it comes to a D. Hopefully I’ll get in sometime this week.
My WW called and made an appointment for IC. Since I was planning on going for IC as well, I thought I would see if the therapist minded taking us both on (separately). Perhaps he’ll get a bit more of a complete independent picture and be better versed in the history to hit the ground running if we get as far as MC.
I know a fair amount about the OM. His first marriage failed and had had a very difficult time dating since…well, until my wife that is (FML). The crux of the reason why his first one went under was because both he and his wife liked to blow money, but only he was bringing any in. Whether or not his behavior of making poor financial decisions continues is uncertain…my WW has told me so in the past, but I’m not sure what to believe at this point. Ultimately, though, there is no AP’s spouse.
One thing that I give her some credit for is stepping up a little bit in helping with the parenting. It probably cut a bit during the initial confrontation when I told her that I felt that she’d been a bad mother for the past two years and needed to get involved and learn a little patience.
You’re right jb3199, if she filed for divorce tomorrow or decided she wanted out, it would hurt like hell, but life would go on. The thing, though, is that many of the steps necessary to prepare for that contingency are the same as what is involved in addressing what I see to be one of the weaknesses in our marriage.
The thing, though, is that many of the steps necessary to prepare for that contingency are the same as what is involved in addressing what I see to be one of the weaknesses in our marriage.
That is the one thing that takes many new betrayed members here to understand--the paths to reconciliation or divorce can be very similar for a certain amount of the journey. It starts with you reclaiming your life---in that, I mean that you start to pick up your recently crushed self-esteem. You start to protect yourself more than in the past, because at the moment, your have lost trust in your partner. You become less tolerant to poor boundaries and behavior. Basically, individualism plays a much stronger role than it did prior to infidelity. Call it self-preservation if you would like.
That is the same path you want to take in either outcome. Where the road starts to fork is as you start to detach emotionally, you will see in a much clearer light if your WW is recommitting to you and the marriage. If she is, through her actions, then you have the ability to recommit yourself. Another possibility is that as you detach, YOU realize that you do not want to be a part of this relationship anymore. And the worst possibility, in my opinion, is that your WW doesn't put in the effort, and thereby leaves you with the decision to continue towards divorce, or stay in a state of limbo, with the hopes of a miracle happening.
But all these outcomes start in the same direction. Just don't choose limbo at the start of the journey...I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
There are many cases where you have a BS telling his/her WS that if they don't stop screwing around they will leave. However they still screw around as the BS remains and there are no concrete consequences. They have so little respect for their BS that they genuinely don't think they will leave them. However, receiving divorce papers gives them that wake-up call.
I am pro-marriage, but the fact that you are defending her on stepping up as a parent is incredibly depressing. She is the mother - not a 16 year old girl that has to step up looking after her younger siblings because something has happened to her parents.
Nobody said that detaching from the woman that you love and mother of your child would be easy. It is an extremely tough and emotional time.
Again, i am not here to make you feel bad/humiliate you. I can still sympathize with you, and still not quite understand why you would want to remain with her.
Either way, my thoughts are with you.
I've been pushing her to go to IC these past two days...first day to contact our EAP provider for approval and again today to set up an appointment. She said that she'd call while I was working, but I'll ask again tonight to see if she actually did it. <a few moments later...> she came in and I asked. Wtf was I thinking. She had and was clearly getting sick of me badgering her about it. I'll leave it alone for awhile.
When I broached the issue of IC last night, she got very uncomfortable. It wasn't over the topic, but just the discussion of the affair. She knew that I'd gotten over 150 pages of texts - I had a pretty clear picture of what had gone on. All that was missing is the beginning and end. She had hated how calm I was when I confronted her. She had hated how I knew all of the details of what had happened and what she had said. She said that she gets uncomfortable when i look at her sometimes because she can't tell what I'm thinking...she doesn't know if Im thinking about what I read, something horrible about her, or nothing at all. She felt it was a lot easier for me to be on this side of the affair to be as calm as I pleased than it was for her to be the one who brought this all down on us. She said that she's not sure whether she wants to work on getting past the affair or if it would be easier to just leave, be alone, and avoid those discussions.
I dunno. It actually feels good to know she's as conflicted about all this as I am.
You haven't mentioned if she's ever expressed any worry about how YOU are doing. It sounds like it's all about her...how SHE feels.
That's polite conversation between friends.
Sorry for the 2x4 below but I think it's warranted. You almost seem like a woman in a relationship that is being beaten. You think it's normal.
What you posted in your first post is anything but normal. It seems to be the most blatant example of a person being used that I have read on here. I have been here for 20 months and am a fairly active poster. I wrote my own story as well as have read hundreds or more.
When I asked if she honestly saw a future with the OM, she said that she didn’t…he was too messed up financially to ever be compatible.
Those words above are yours. Do you realize, according to you, she said that the only reason she didn't want to leave you is because he isn't capable of making sound financial decisions?
In other words what she meant is "I like having sex with him but he can't provide for me financially and babysit. I need you for that".
If this is an ongoing pattern that you have seen throughout your relationship you need to end it.
I don't say that lightly and have never advised anyone here to do that...ever.
There are larger issues at play with her and this won't be overcome. She will never see you as an equal. You are the person that she gets stuff from but isn't worthy of respect.
Also get your child tested to ensure that she is yours.
I am so sorry you are going through this.
I went back through and re-read some of the posts and had to add this.
She said that she's not sure whether she wants to work on getting past the affair or if it would be easier to just leave, be alone, and avoid those discussions.
If I reword that it would sound like this...
I don't know if all the support you provide is worth listening to the bullshit that I'm going to have to listen to if I stay with you.
Dude you win the prize for being married to the single most selfish woman I've read about on this website. Period.
Let me tell you a secret that changed things for me.
After my life imploded I was so desperate to keep things together. I wanted things just so to ensure that we stayed married. During this time my wife went away to visit her sick mother and I was alone for about a week.
During that week I was happy. I finally realized that not dealing with my wife's bullshit everyday was kind of nice and if she left I'd be just fine.
You are in a place that you don't think you can ever be happy. Take a week off and getaway.
You will come back a new man.
[This message edited by damaged71 at 11:47 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]
The OM is (was?) very much the opposite...he might make a bit more than me (not much), but he blows it quite readily. I don't think it's an issue of not being able to support her...he could if he wanted. Early on when I was still hearing stories about him, she tried to discuss his finances with her, but he freaked out and told her that it was his money and he could do whatever he wanted with it. It was one of the things that ended his first marriage...two people frivolously spending money, while only one was bringing it in.