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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Forgiving the fog?
Virginiagirl
♀ Member
Member # 41656
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the hardest things to forgive, almost as hard as the affair itself, is the fog period. That even once I found out, we cried together, we separated... He still seemed resigned-yet almost relieved- to be apart. He kept talking to her, etc. knowing my anguish, still spouting lip service of "it's your call if you want me back" while making no effort to convince me.

Now it SEEMS like maybe the fog is finally lifting, and maybe I can start working on getting some actual answers to all the questions that have taken over my brain 24/7 for 7 months. But I don't know if I can forgive him for taking so long to see the light!!! I want to... Really... But that kills me. It's the continued deception after the initial destruction of our lives. Can I accept the fog period as a normal, unavoidable piece of the affair? Can I rationalize it without making up excuses for him? Any advice or input?


Me- BS-43
Him-WS-42
Married 15 years, living together 20
DDay May 2013
TT ongoing
2 kids, 10 & 15
OW- old girlfriend from High School, and now umpteen stupid groupie local ho-bags

We are done.


Posts: 171 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: utah
sudra
♀ Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiving an affair is not just a matter of forgiving one act and it may not come all at once, IMO.

It's all of the little things that have to be forgiven as well, including things done and said after Dday. It happens over time for many, not just in one fell swoop.

Don't forgive too soon, either. Many people who do that realize they did not truly forgive but said the words in a panic or hoping they were true or while still in shock.

Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to heal without rushing it.


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1474 | Registered: Nov 2010
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

outstanding topic!

It's the continued deception after the initial destruction of our lives.

As a MH, I cannot BELIEVE the crap we spewed to each other after said affairs. It took us both about a year to get our heads on straight. Him - looking at other women, me - boundaries and not being rude to men hitting on me. but those were the easy ones...

He said so many things that haunt me - THOSE are the things I might not get over. He kept his affair car for 5 months after I asked him to sell it. It was only until we went to a new MC that the MC set him straight on how devastating that was for me - and he finally saw how it appeared as though I wasn't his priority. I would never stand for that now.. I would throw him out. The BS not taking a strong stance is what allows this to continue, IMHO.

Virginia - make a list of the things that piss you off. Know that this is normal for WS but that you DO NOT have to stand for it. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. The fog is almost worse than the affair and you said it perfectly. Do NOT rationalize it. Because you know what? yeah, it may be normal but it's fucking abusive.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:12 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4952 | Registered: Dec 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would counsel you not to push yourself for a decision. Instead, let the decision form naturally. If it takes 6 months or a year or more, so be it. This is your life, and your life is worth a lot of thought and effort.

If you push yourself to forgive, but really he's killed your M absolutely dead, your forgiveness will increase your pain.

Keep telling yourself you can choose whatever you want, that you aren't obligate to forgive or to offer R.

Many of us have chosen D not because of the A but because of the WS's behavior after D-Day. You're not crazy - his fog could be a deal killer for you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:59 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10104 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine did not truly emerge from the fog until October. DD was March. I did not get a "complete timeline" of the A until a couple of weeks ago in his therapist's office.

From what I understand, taking this long to emerge from the fog is not unusual. Is he taking responsibility for the affair, his actions, his behavior? Is it getting better a little bit every week?

It's going to take time! It's only been 7 months for you…these things take time and then more time. And you won't know if things are getting better until things really are better.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 895 | Registered: Jun 2013
Virginiagirl
♀ Member
Member # 41656
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies. Since I am just now truly considering R, I am going through a lot of fear, of the unknown, of what he might reveal to me, or how much he will continue to hold back and/or TT. I guess I feel a responsibility to stick with my decision to R- so than you for the reminders that I am not obligated to stay with him if he can't do his part, or if I just plain can't get over it.
One day at a time, one step at a time, right? One day I will be better, with or without him. I guess one of my big fears is finding a balance between wasting too much time on an R that won't take in the end, or quitting too soon. *sigh*


Me- BS-43
Him-WS-42
Married 15 years, living together 20
DDay May 2013
TT ongoing
2 kids, 10 & 15
OW- old girlfriend from High School, and now umpteen stupid groupie local ho-bags

We are done.


Posts: 171 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: utah
Frankie80
♀ Member
Member # 41323
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Virginiagirl)))
I could have written your post almost exactly!
After dday my H seemed to be truly remorseful and arranged MC. All the while still emotionally involved with OW through work contact. I still can't believe he could watch me fall apart, break down in front of me then go off to work and carry on with her. I hate the fog and am resigned to the fact I will never be able to understand or rationalise his actions.
I agree with rachelc about the strong stance, it took me giving an ultimatum-stop working with her or I leave-for the fog to start lifting, before I had agreed he could still work with her as long as he told me everything. I feel really stupid about that now. Anyway just wanted to let you know that I am struggling with the same thing, I still get panicky wondering if there's a new revelation coming.


Me BW
Him WH
Married 5yrs, together 8
DS & DD
DDay 1 18.07.13, 7month PA co-worker
DDay 2 29.09.2013 (continued EA, kissed once)
Working on R

Posts: 75 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: UK
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree completely! It took my WH 3 months to stop talking to OW. Oh but he claims there never was a "fog" because he never had any feelings for her and there were NO EMOTIONS. That almost makes it worse! So there was no reason for him to disregard my feelings of complete anguish and continue to act selfishly and/or spare her feelings? *Not that I actually believe him.*


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I would just add….

Do not be TOO quick to say the words "i forgive you" for any one thing.

One of the surprising things for me is that I found forgiveness was a process. When I started to forgive, I would feel that I had forgiven him one day and the very next day I was still pissed off or reeling from that same thing I thought I had forgiven.

I had made the mistake of saying the words to him too quickly. The truth is…this forgiveness is a process. It is a lot of many different times that you realize you forgive the SAME thing, next day, you haven't again, until one day you realize that 'that thing' really IS forgiven.

At least that is how it was with me.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1483 | Registered: Jun 2012
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Virginia,

I posted on your other thread. I am in a very similar position and feeling the exact same hesitations and fears. One thing that is helping me is giving myself permission to "get out" of my decision to R if he does not make the necessary effort.

I have grown immensely since D day and I will never accept the same things I did. Finding my own inner strength is the true hope in all this. I get to decide if he is worth sticking around for, or if I will be happier on my own. At first, I so badly wanted to save "us" and our M, I was a pushover. Not anymore. (OK, maybe I'm not all that tough yet, but I'm a work in progress!!!!). I plan to get stronger and live a healthy authentic life-- with or without him!!!

Hang in there, Virginia!!!!

ETA: on forgiveness-- I agree it's a process and there are a lot of different things to forgive. I felt like I can accept and even forgive the A, but for me, also, it's the behavior and waffling and really hurtful comments made after Dday, that are almost unforgivable. We just started with a new MC/IC/FC- he asked if I've forgiven my WH. Loaded question. How to answer? I'm trying. It's hard. Best of luck in your journey.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 12:40 PM, December 27th (Friday)]


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 686 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Emerging slowly from the fog looks to be a fairly typical response from a fWS.

I contend a WS really has no idea of the reality of their choices. The first lie that was told while choosing adultery was to themselves....very delusional state.

In my case, my co-dependent nature actually nurtured my wifes ability to remain in her fog!

Took her 6 months from NC to really come out of it....and she took her A underground for 2 months after DD...resulting in my second DD. She broke NC 1 week after that.

In a way...my co-dependent nature kept us together after DD...and it cost me dearly.

By the grace of God we did not D or separate.

I have read 17 books on infidelity. It appears the singular act of fucking another person other than your spouse is seldom the marriage-ending event.....the fog and trickle truths are much more likely to break a marriage.

I think that is because of the INTENTIONALITY of a WS actions AFTER DD. No longer can their actions be anything but blatantly intentional.

They see the pain they cause, they realize they have put their family at risk (and the family of the AP as well)...and, yet, aggressively nurture actions that continue to increase the pain to their BS and risk their families.

Add to this and a common "conflict avoidance" trait and it makes sense that a "fog" can last longer than a BS likes. Afterall, it is hard to face the internal conflict that is within all of us....but particularly so when the actions are so grieveous in nature.

I am grateful your husband has decided to come out of the fog and face the reality he forced upon his marriage.

If I had just one wish it would be that a WS come clean immediately. The reluctance to do so have caused many marriages to fail...marriages that could survive their spouse fucking another person, many times, can not surviive the complete and total intentional betrayal that follows discovery.


God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3696 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't forgive too soon, either. Many people who do that realize they did not truly forgive but said the words in a panic or hoping they were true or while still in shock.

Although I believe forgiveness will set you free, I have to agree with this one. Before I found this web site I forgave my WH twice. I didn't realize he was still in the fog, ending & restarting the A repeatedly.

I hope to say "Yes I've forgiven him" but it's a lot harder this time. Someday...........


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
LetMeRollIt
♂ Member
Member # 41189
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even though I still feel my WW is in a slight fog, two days ago I told her that I forgave her for actions and statements post DDay.

When she had her first emergence from the fog, I saw a woman I hadn't seen in years. This coupled with a lot of reading about WS led me to genuinely understand her mental state Post Dday. (even if she didn't).

I truly feel forgiveness for this part of things.

And a good step towards the big one...


D day- June 30, 2013
Me - BS
Married 15 years
5 year old child
Attempting R as of Oct. 1 2013

"Cry, and let your soul be cleansed of a love that turned to carnage." - Christy Brown


Posts: 99 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Canada
Topic Posts: 13

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