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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Drastic times call for drastic measures
wario
♂ Member
Member # 20338
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, over 6 years out and things are still pretty bad. My BS and I are at the verge of divorce.
She's said she still hasn't seen any remorse from me. Our MC agrees with my wife,
I'm clueless, inconsiderate, but he does think I have the desire to change and thinks I'm truly sorry for the pain and suffering I've caused. The hard part is to show my BS that

Today, my wife gave me an ultimatum, a challenge or an opportunity depending on how you look at it.

1. You put your job on hold (no income) and fix yourself.
2. You post each day on SI as a log.

The minimum time for you to fix yourself is 100 days.

It's harsh, but I agreed. This is my first post, we'll see how it goes.

Comments, please...

And to all a good night.

Wario


Me: FWH 40
BS: 42
Married: 12 years
Together:19 years

Multiple EAs from the beginning, 1 EA after marriage


Posts: 186 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Wario))) It sounds like you're in a tough spot. I'm sorry you're still struggling.

What does remorse look and feel like to you? Are you and your wife speaking the same "language" about what it is?


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey wario. Without knowing your entire back story, I'm curious about a few things. For now I'll start with something basic...

Are you in IC? Do you feel like you're working on things, but because your BW and MC disagree you're trying MORE?

My FWH could have written your post right about now... but I think he's honestly clueless as to how his behavior affects people - always has been. His IC thinks he registers on the Asperger's spectrum but he hasn't been officially diagnosed. If you are truly clueless as to what your BW is going through - is it possible that there is a chemical/psychological disconnect? I ask because your post sounds very aspie.


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17298 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Empathy.

Study it. Own it. Invest in it.

After 6 years, if you think a 100 day allowance is harsh, when your wife and MC say you are not remorseful, then something in you is failing to empathize, I am guessing. Don't defend, Don't inimize. Don't justify. Don't re-write. Own it. Be sorry, or don't be sorry, but be honest. Don't manipulate.

If your BS does not think you are remorseful, she WILL NOT be able to trust you again. If you are not remorseful, quit trying to pretend you are. If you ARE - kiss your pride goodbye, Get humble, walk for 6 years or so in her shoes, Find your empathy.

The damage my H did after d-day by trying to preserve his self image instead of owning his bad decisions did FFFAAAARRRR more damage than the A. Like the A wasn't bad enough, but compounding the pain with empty promises, half efforts and baloney to keep him comfortable while our marraige and I suffered...worse than the A, in my book.

You have a gift. A freaking generous gift of 100 days, sir. Generous beyond my capacity, for sure. Seize the opportunity. Or get out today. Quit the half-in torture. All-in or all out.

Good luck, choose honestly.

[This message edited by JustWow at 8:42 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3617 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has your BS been willing to "specifically" share what she needs from at any point during these past 6 years? Or are you clairvoyant, expected to read her mind?

Over these past 6 years you've really done nothing? If this is true, your wife is 5 and 3/4 years late on this ultimatum.

And this idea that you will just 'fix yourself" in 100 days is ridiculous. It's like telling an alcoholic; "go to your room and don't come out until you're fixed". It is an irrational request.
There must be a plan with specifics addressed; like boundaries, precautions, specific behavioral changes, speaking pattern changes, needs being met, etc. There must be specific ways to measure these changes on a scale that can show improvement or backsliding for accountability. I know I'm being very general, but have you sat down and considered any of these with your wife?


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Scorpio2310
♂ Member
Member # 41561
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wario

Don't defend, Don't inimize. Don't justify. Don't re-write. Own it. Be sorry, or don't be sorry, but be honest. Don't manipulate.

This is gold. I couldn't agree more. I'm two weeks out from D-day and I answer my BSO's every question. If I can't answer right away I tell her that I need some time to think about it. I struggle with the getting defensive still but I'm catching myself more and more each time it happens. When I do catch myself I apologize and ask to take a break, when I don't my BSO calls me on it.

There must be a plan with specifics addressed; like boundaries, precautions, specific behavioral changes, speaking pattern changes, needs being met, etc.

I am also working on building boundaries. It is hard but I am constantly working on it. I text my BSO any time I have contact with a female and it goes close to my boundaries.

My BSO also has me at least read SI once a day. I post whenever I have a question and/or when I have some support or advice to give.

After 6 years it sounds like your W is being very generous. If you are very sorry and have the desire to change then take the plunge. You are starting on the right path by posting here and looking for help. Don't give up.


Posts: 61 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Tesseract
♂ Member
Member # 39624
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I'm in a somewhat similar situation. While I'm not six years out from DDay, there have been issues in my behavior that come from the same place that have hurt my wife and damaged my marriage for our entire relationship. I believe my wife would very strongly agree with JustWow.

I struggle with empathy and being defensive, not just over things to do with the A, but over feelings in general. I just started IC, and setting up those specific goals that Card mentioned is something I want to work on with the counselor in great detail and then share with my wife.

What I will tell you is that I'm not sure about this 100 days thing. It seems like a good first step, but comes across as fairly, gimmicky rather than sincere. But as my wife says, you get out of it what you put into it. So I wish you luck.


Posts: 55 | Registered: Jun 2013
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Card here. Has she told you what she needs? Has your IC told you how you are lacking or did she/he just say you're lacking? I also agree the time limit is ridiculous. Perhaps its her last straw or her line in yhe sand but I've had a year and a half and I'm not "fixed" and thats with IC, psych ward vists, introspection and over 2000 posts here on SI. IMHO there is no such thing as fixed. We are constantly changing and I hope improving but no one is ever fixed. So what is she looking for in you? Remorse takes many forms and R is different for each couple.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2732 | Registered: Oct 2012
Clarrissa
♀ Member
Member # 21886
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also have a question about the time limit. Who decides if you're "fixed"? Her? Your MC/IC? You? The cynic in me says she's setting you up to fail. Admittedly that may be unfair on my part. Depending on how entrenched your issues are, it could take *much* longer - years, in fact - to fix yourself. It's been five years post Dday for me and, while I'm much better, I'm not completely fixed. I know I still have work to do.

I agree that if she hasn't *told* you what she needs then you can't be expected to know. And it's unfair of her to just assume that you would. If we could read minds, a lot of this pain and heartbreak would have been avoided.


BH Cee64D - 48
WW (me) - 49


All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.


Posts: 5886 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: A better place
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, let me, as a BW, give another perspective.

It's been 6 years already. 6 very long, long years. That's more than enough time to have worked on and "gotten" remorse, consideration, and an appreciation of how to help heal yourself and to have become empathetic towards your BW. That's 6 years of her life that she will never get back. That's 6 years of healing that didn't happen.

So, how much longer is "enough?"

I would turn this around. You are being given a gift of 100 days. A last-attempt gift to try to save your marriage. She didn't have to give this to you. She could have filed, divorced, and tried to put the last 6+ years in her rearview mirror. But she didn't.

This is, in my opinion, a really great gift. A statement that there is something there, on her end, and that if you can step up to the plate and show her, and an impartial observer, your MC, that you can grow, then you may have the chance to save your marriage. Of course, if that's not your wish or if you feel that being granted a mere 100 days is in some way an insult, then you can call an end to this right now and let her know that it's time to give up hope.

This is your choice, and your opportunity. What will you do with it?


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4802 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Daisy1967
♀ Member
Member # 41627
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Daisy1967 at 11:50 AM, January 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 70 | Registered: Dec 2013
wario
♂ Member
Member # 20338
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me clarify this. WE will not have an income, that is me, my wife and my baby daughter. 100 hundred days is a ballpark in which we start eating into our savings uncomfortably. For me, this is a f*&king serious decision. She puts her comfort on the line along with my daughter's.
Its not a gift, its not a gimmick, it's f&*king serious. of course its going to take longer, but that's how much time it takes before we really feel the pinch.

I'm not exactly a freaking neurosurgeon, but my work is extremely difficult and demanding, so putting it aside is a very "High Cost" behavior (I'm referencing Janis Springs).

That being said, I can honestly say I didn't really hesitate when she came up with this. The only hesitation comes from figuring out how I'm going to explain this to my Employers so that I do not completely screw them.

Part of me was actually relieved that now there is a concrete action that shows my willingness to change, to repair and heal my very broken relationship with my wife. You see, I think I did a lot of Low Cost Actions (again, I'm referencing Janis Springs) but they are not enough to help my wife heal. According to my MC, I really didn't have a clue what the High Cost Actions were, they are different for each case and
each BS and it's not the job of the BS to spell out what these actions are. She probably told me but I didn't even identify them as
High Cost Trust Building behaviors, it just didn't click. So much of the past 6 years has been spent, trying to figure out how to deal with fall-out. Navigate through all the negative emotions (mine and hers), and trying to stay calm when the shit is hitting the fan (Yes the Triggers).

Of course there is no roadmap, but I do have something I didn't have in the past six years.
A very professional MC that seems to care to know both of us and is willing to help me find my sense of empathy and to fix things with my wife that I have hurt so much. Yes I did IC but he was not in the business of helping me fix my marriage, that's why you pay for an MC.

I do see this as an opportunity, a chance for something different, but it comes at a price and is an extremely difficult situation.

Thanks for the comments.

Wario

P.S. To be honest, some of your comments really pissed me off, but I know that every comment at its core is good. That is one of my new things is to try to be honest with my feelings, thanks for letting this be the forum for it.



Me: FWH 40
BS: 42
Married: 12 years
Together:19 years

Multiple EAs from the beginning, 1 EA after marriage


Posts: 186 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

willing to help me find my sense of empathy

BS here. If you haven't found this in nearly 6 years, I don't understand how not working for 100 days is going to drag this out of you.

You say you haven't been doing enough. What have you been doing over the last 6 years?

Thanks.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

P.S. To be honest, some of your comments really pissed me off, but I know that every comment at its core is good. That is one of my new things is to try to be honest with my feelings, thanks for letting this be the forum for it.

Which ones pissed you off the most? It might be interesting to look into why they pissed you off.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37158 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
hitbyatruck
♀ Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see how taking roughly 100 days off from work is going to help that much. I know for me it would cause more stress to an already stressful situation.

I think it is great that you are willing to do what your wife asks. Do you fully understand why you need to but your work on hold for 3+ months? Will your job still be there at the end of this hiatus?


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
dana1234
♀ New Member
Member # 40952
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here another thing I wanted to point out is everything about affairs are "fantasy" not "reality..... Working for your family is not fantasy but reality! Don't we need to find our "way back" being realistic? I would love for my WH to drop everything and cater to my needs everyday with no other stress to worry about but..... Is that reality? Just a thought...

I do agree it's good after 6 years she wants u to be the man she needs, deserves😀 good luck in this journey and looking forward to hearing how it works out


Me40 BS
Him 43 WH
Married 16 years, together 24 high school sweethearts
3 Beautiful Children 12,8,8

Posts: 33 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Jersey
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course there is no roadmap, but I do have something I didn't have in the past six years.
A very professional MC that seems to care to know both of us and is willing to help me find my sense of empathy and to fix things with my wife that I have hurt so much. Yes I did IC but he was not in the business of helping me fix my marriage, that's why you pay for an MC.

I do see this as an opportunity, a chance for something different, but it comes at a price and is an extremely difficult situation.

No Roadmap? So you have no plan, and no goals? - That "is" what no roadmap means....
You cannot just do "plan whatever"....

Someone else is searching for your empathy with you? So where are you both looking? What's the plan?

What's the High price behavior? Is it taking a leave of absence from your job? Or was it the six years of doing nothing? Or is it something else?

Wario, you are so vague in your posts that they almost seem cryptic at times.
You're sharing that you got angry about responses, yet you ask no questions about any of the things other posters mention, nor do you ask for more clarity. In most cases you don't even answer the questions.... In a sense, you just blow each of us off as if we are your enemy, and we are not the enemy. Everyone taking the time to post wants to see you succeed.

I think most of us understand how serious your situation really is.
The question is, do you?
Taking a leave of absence is an action, but it's not what will determine the outcome of your marital recovery.
It just means you are clearing your calendar.

So, What SPECIFICALLY are you going to be doing with this open calendar?

Please share more details....

[This message edited by Card at 10:02 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't understand the need to quit your job? Or maybe you will just take a sabbatical and your job will still be intact when you return?

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 9:55 PM, December 28th (Saturday)]


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 378 | Registered: Nov 2010
wario
♂ Member
Member # 20338
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that the whole point of this thread, like I said was for ME, to express my thoughts and feelings as I go through this difficult journey. I thank you for the comments, some positive, some negative. I don't want this thread to become some ground for aggression. I think I have enough in me.

Now back to ME and my BS. I had a chance to discuss some of this with my BS today. I realized, I have compartmentalized throughout my life to survive my FOO and to excel at what I do. The cheating was part of that compartmentalization. After disclosing my cheating to my BS, I compartmentalized this troublesome bastard and wanted to never let him see the light of day. Metaphorically speaking,
I also locked my BS in with this bastard and was pissed off at her for bringing him out into the light.

Using a computer metaphor. It like the whole architecture of my OS is counter-productive to me having a decent relationship with anyone, including myself. It was meant to survive a very neglectful childhood and allowed me to excel at school and work. But that's not a life, that's just survival and work. Love is not part of this OS. Hell, this doesn't even make a likable person.

So what am I going to do? I'm going to have to unlearn a lot and reprogram me so I can even stand me. How can I expect my BS to even like me if I find myself so completely aggressive and unkind. That is the change and it begins with stopping how I normally do things, and trying to be honest with myself, for REAL.

Once again, thanks for the comments and encouragement. Thanks wifehad5 for asking about which posts pissed me off. It forced me to reread them and really work through some anger and defensiveness, it was a good exercise.

Wario


Me: FWH 40
BS: 42
Married: 12 years
Together:19 years

Multiple EAs from the beginning, 1 EA after marriage


Posts: 186 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm. So your goal is to use a message board as a personal journal, ignore all other members that can support you and offer suggestions, and post once per day as instructed.

I'm sorry - but it doesn't make sense that this is what your wife wanted. If all she wanted was for you to express your feelings, wouldn't she have just purchased a writing journal for you?

Also, I believe there is an option to have your own journal in your members profile section. If you don't want comments from others, perhaps that's a better option? It seems you just want to get your feelings out but you aren't interested in any comments or in digging deeper by having any 'back and forth' with the experienced members her.That's fine if that is what you want, truly. I'm just mentioning the private journal as another option if you don't want to deal with other members.

Good luck with your journey.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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