Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: dink (44972)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PP, I want to reply to let you know you've been heard. It sounds like a very frustrating and worrying situation but one I have zero experience of so I don't think I'll be much help. I hope someone will be able to answer you soon.

LS, on Dday I committed to my M 2000%. I've never had ambivalence or been on the fence about it. The D process can be stopped at any time, it's not set in stone. You can remarry after D if you have a remorseful spouse willing to do the work for R.
Give it time, keep watching and listening. Look after yourself.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LS, on Dday I committed to my M 2000%. I've never had ambivalence or been on the fence about it. The D process can be stopped at any time, it's not set in stone. You can remarry after D if you have a remorseful spouse willing to do the work for R.
Give it time, keep watching and listening. Look after yourself.

Thank you BrokenButTrying. I appreciate it, but unfortunately, we been separated since October 26th of last year and remorse I just don't see it and I just don't feel safe or comfortable with how things turned out... There has been no effort on her part. She couldn't even commit yet. So I have no choice.

She still has POSOM jewelry.

[This message edited by LostSamurai at 7:56 AM, June 16th (Monday)]


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

remorse I just don't see it and I just don't feel safe or comfortable with how things turned out...

Then you carry on with D proceedings. I know you are having problems detaching from your WW, I can certainly relate to that! The more work you do on yourself, the more you heal, the stronger you become, the easier it will be to detach from her.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hpv50:

Second question first. My BW was scheduled to come to one of my IC sessions, but it got bumped because of outside stuff. BW hasn't felt the need to reschedule.

To explain -- after a couple of months in IC, I felt like I was seeing something in me. I thought I was reacting better to conflicts around me. But BW and I had a rocky week, and in MC BW said that she wasn't seeing any changes in me. That she wasn't seeing the work that I was doing. I thought I was doing well. Instead of something pushing me into a depressive spiral for a week, I'd process it in a few hours and then be OK. BW saw that the same sorts of things were triggering me, so maybe nothing had changed.

So my MC and IC spoke with each other, and they also suggested that BW accompany me to IC. Scheduling being what it is, we had an IC session for a month later. BW had to back out. But in that month, I realized what BW needed to see from me outwardly. I made lots of effort to show and explain how I was fixing myself. Because of that, BW has said that she doesn't need to go to IC with me. The offer is always open.

That kind of leads into your first question. We always talk about my IC sessions. There was a month when I was first learning to open up and see what was going on in my mind. I came home from IC pretty exhausted, but excited. I wasn't there yet, but I could start to see that there would be a way to fix myself. So I'd be excited to share what we talked about, and I figured BW would be happy, too.

I could not have been more wrong about BW's reaction for a couple of months. I'd start to uncover problems and the roots of my bad behavior. Instead of making BW hopeful, it would remind her of how horrible I was. I was still trying to find the problems, but she was really interested in the answers. It would be like Me: I figured out that I avoid conflict because of my FOO. BW: How does this assure me you won't screw my SIL again?

I don't think those two different POV's are really bad. Neither of us tried to hurt the other. And I definitely see how some of that is more hurtful for BW to hear. I think it is part of the process -- or MY process anyway. I do think it is good to be mindful that Ws and BS have different approaches and timetables to recovery. What is positive to a WS might mean nothing to a BS.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 540 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
SWAT70
♂ Member
Member # 42915
Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure this has been asked before. But I couldn't find it. I'm not even sure how to ask this.

What steps did you take to justify your affair? Was the marriage really that bad or did you make things up? When you saw how much you hurt your BS, why keep telling the lies? How do you do that to someone you are supposed to love?

These are the things I'm having the hardest time understanding. I've tried to talk to my WW about this but just being selfish doesn't seem right to me.



Me BH-45. WW-39
DD-11 DS-6 DS-3
D day was Valentines day 2014. Talk about a trigger.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Down range
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:00 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi SWAT,

What steps did you take to justify your affair?

The biggest one for me was absolutely convincing myself that my H didn't love me anymore. I looked back on our M and only saw the bad things, focusing on those I convinced myself that he didn't care about me at all and actually hated me. This thought process allowed me to reason that he was a selfish arse to whom I had sacrificed my whole adult life thus far and it was only 'fair' that I had a bit of happiness too. Entitlement 101 I deserved to feel attractive, wanted and special and my H wasn't prepared to do that for me so I took an opportunity when it presented itself.

Was the marriage really that bad or did you make things up?

I'm a MH so probably a bit different from other waywards. Yes, our marriage was very toxic, for both of us. No, I didn't make stuff up but I stopped seeing the good stuff. There is a lot of good stuff.

When you saw how much you hurt your BS, why keep telling the lies?

I didn't personally do this. I confessed and told him everything. I won't lie, it wasn't easy. I was tempted to omit things and minimise! Waywards justify TT by telling themselves it's for your own good, they don't want to hurt you more than necessary. The reality is that they are just protecting themselves. They can't face the horrible truth of what they've done so they try to make it seem better than it really is.

How do you do that to someone you are supposed to love?

This is the million dollar question! I honestly don't know the answer.
What I will say is that a wayward performs some impressive mental gymnastics to turn themselves into a person capable of doing this. The entitlement makes it possible to justify anything and the awful truth is, that in the single moment each and every wayward made that first decision to cross the line into infidelity, their spouse just didn't matter at all.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 4:02 AM, June 17th (Tuesday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
SWAT70
♂ Member
Member # 42915
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenButTrying. Thank you for taking the time to answer. I just don't get how my WW managed to twist our relationship around so much. I never thought we were perfect but I thought we were pretty close.

I appreciate your candor in regards to my last question. It was always on my mind that I didn't matter. That I think is the major difference between WW and I. Every decision I've made since we got together involved her. She mattered in everything I did. So again I want to thank you for clarifying what she may have been thinking. It helps a lot.


Me BH-45. WW-39
DD-11 DS-6 DS-3
D day was Valentines day 2014. Talk about a trigger.


Posts: 333 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Down range
caspers1wish
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was the marriage really that bad or did you make things up?

Marriage and people are in a state of constant flux. Perception is reality. We can twist anything to suit our needs and motivations.

Sometimes the marriage was perfect. Sometimes he was an ass, neglectful, dismissive. And sometimes I was a bitch, a nag, and over dramatic. Those times hurt, and they were real at the time.

When things are bad, it's hard to see the good. It's hard to be forgiving. I think that what people don't realize is that perfection is not realistic, and not sustainable over time. That there are major challenges in marriages that often, do NOT get resolved. The whole "we work everything out and talk everything out," to me is just not true.

My husband and I fight, and most of the times, one or both of us just has to let shit go so that the good can see the light of day. The old me would be keeping score. The old me would care if I lost/won the fight. The new me sees that he's his own person, I'm my own, and sometimes it doesn't jive. The new me realizes that marriage isn't perfect all the time, hell, even the sex sucks sometimes, but things don't stay that way, because everything changes, all the time. That even when things are bad, my marriage is still good. I see that, I see past "me."


Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 763 | Registered: Jun 2010
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're more than welcome, SWAT.

It is mind boggling for a BS and very scary for a (remorseful) WS.
It isn't logical, it isn't rational and it isn't fair. Infidelity is all shades of crazy.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenheartedWif
♀ Member
Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any WS come to their whys & how they allowed themselves to get involved in Adultery, especially LTA; without IC?

We have been in MC since Aug. 13, and spouse has only done 1 IC session with our MC. He says he doesn't want to psychoanalyze himself for why or how. Claims it was just lust, and other times not sure.

LTA was at least 16 years. He doesn't remember exactly when it started or the f**king in my home started, since it was convenient to do it there.


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
walktheline
♀ New Member
Member # 43408
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi SWAT -- I've been following your WW's posts and she reminds me a lot of how I acted when I cheated on my exBH, so I'll try to offer some perspective.
What steps did you take to justify your affair?

I had a PA/EA with an old friend whom I'd always been attracted to (and he to me, apparently) but "timing" prevented us from ever being together. When I went to visit him for a long weekend and we had a PA, I justified it by saying, "We always wanted this, and I deserved to figure out what it was like, but now I'll go back to my marriage." The PA then morphed into an EA because I didn't want to let go of the idea of being with this other person. In the process, I picked out a few events in my marriage that were not great, and I fixated on them. My exBH did say/do a few things to me that were not great early in our marriage. No one is perfect, and it wasn't stuff that had bothered me much before...but after I started the affair, I used those events to make him into a monster. In my head, I created an image of a terrible person. In reality, he was actually a pretty decent man who was faithful and honest.
Was the marriage really that bad or did you make things up?

The marriage wasn't that bad. We'd had a few bumps that we needed to work through, but at the time the PA happened I would have said I thought our marriage was very good and that we were happy together. I honestly never meant for the PA to last and turn into an EA; I expected to walk away and never talk about it again and go back to being "happy" with my exBH. (As happy as you can be with a huge secret, I guess...which is, apparently, not very happy at all.)

As for making things up, I would say that I withheld the truth from people and then made him look like the bad guy. For example, he was suspicious of my "friendship" with my AP, so he started demanding to know what was going on and reading my emails. Then I'd tell my friends - who didn't know about the A - that he was interrogating me and reading my emails. So obviously, he looked like an insane, paranoid control freak. In reality, he just wanted to know if his wife was sleeping around.

When you saw how much you hurt your BS, why keep telling the lies?

It was truly awful. I felt sick over it. I would cry in the shower because I loved my exBH and really wanted to be with him, and I felt helpless. I was sure he wouldn't want to be with me if he'd known what I had done, and at that point I'd convinced myself that *I* didn't want *him* anymore, so I had no "choice" but to keep pulling away from him. But I didn't know any other way out. I'd made my AP the center of my life -- my self-worth and ego boosts all came from his emails.

The easiest way to answer this question is to say I was a selfish, broken person. I had no coping mechanisms. I had no boundaries. I didn't know how to function as an honest person. I'd never been honest in any relationship in my life; I was always putting on a mask. Yes, it crushed me to see my exBH hurting and knowing something was wrong as I withdrew from him...but I didn't know how to fix it either. So, I just kept running.

How do you do that to someone you are supposed to love?

For me, as a broken person, I didn't have the ability to love my exBH (or anyone) the way I needed to. I didn't love myself, either. All I loved was attention...filling that hole in myself with as much attention as I could get. I didn't have any tools to actually function as a decent person. It has taken years for me to fix myself and learn how to truly love and be a healthy partner.

Also, I was able to separate "I love him" from "I'm lying to him" in my head. I thought by lying to him, I was protecting him, and that was how I was showing I loved him. Pretty sick stuff.

These are the things I'm having the hardest time understanding. I've tried to talk to my WW about this but just being selfish doesn't seem right to me.

I think that's right -- it's more than being selfish. For me, it went much deeper than that. Yes, I selfishly wanted the attention I got from my AP. But I wanted that attention because I wasn't happy with who I was. And I wasn't happy with who I was because I had an overbearing father who was never happy with anything, judged and criticized everything I said or did, told me I was worthless garbage, made me ashamed of being a woman, and told me that having sex made me a disgusting slut. Then I grew up and men paid attention to me! Sure, it was sexual attention and had nothing to do with me as a person, but it was attention! And hey, I can use my body to get attention, and now people like me!

I hated myself for that and felt disgusting about it, so I'd lie to people. My BEST FRIENDS didn't know that I was having sex with multiple married men. They didn't know I was broken and desperate for attention. I lied to them. And I lied to the men who gave me their attention, because if I ever showed glimpses of being real, I was no longer "fun" and they didn't want my attention anymore. I'd cling desperately to terrible relationships so I didn't have to be alone. I was REALLY messed up.

My affairs went way deeper than being selfish -- they went to the root of how I viewed myself. So even as a woman who viewed herself as happily married, when someone from my past whom I'd always respected and liked showed me attention, I didn't resist...even with a nice husband at home who loved me. A person with healthy boundaries, coping mechanisms, and self-image would say no. I had none of those things, so I said yes.

Sorry to write you a novel. I hope something here helps.


fOW/fWW - 30.

Married to amazing new H who is not a BH and never will be.


Posts: 19 | Registered: May 2014 | From: walktheline
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi SWAT,

It's hard to quote on my phone so I'll try to cover your questions without cut & paste.

One of the worst things about my affair, IMO, was that I didn't even bother to justify it. I didn't demonize XH or the marriage. Our marriage wasn't bad...we had some problems, like every couple, but nothing I could point to to manufacture an excuse for fucking around. I literally made the choice to cheat simply because I wanted to and I didn't care about anything or anyone else.

I lied about 2 details on D-day after my XH confronted me. At the time, I convinced myself that I was trying to spare him more pain. The truth is that I was minimizing and trying to cover my own ass. I didn't really "get it" until maybe a week or so after that. When I lied, it was damage control and trying to control the situation. I've always had issues with control, needing everything to be my way, and rebelling against anything or anyone who told me differently. I didn't start to "get it" until I was forced to give up control.

As for how we as WSs could do this to someone we love: I've been on SI for over 4 years and I've yet to see a definitive answer to this question. Some say it's not possible that we ever loved our spouse if we were able to do this. Others say that hurting loved ones on purpose does not necessarily represent a lack of love.

On D-day, I would have fought to the death to convince anyone that I really did love XH and simply cheated because I was selfish. Now, I tend to think that it was my extreme (like bordering on sociopathic) selfishness that actually prevented me from loving. If that makes any sense.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2147 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
theseseatsRtaken
♂ Member
Member # 43088
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brokenheartedwif,

My own experience is this: I have been in MC & IC since close to DDAY and the IC most certainly has contributed to my current understandings of why and how. But it has not revealled all. Much of what I have come to accept has come from months of honest and open discussion with BW. Leaving defensiveness and self preservation at the door and for the first time in my life being willing to self reflect and put myself in my BWs shoes. Once you truly adopt this perspective you can come to a great many realisations on your own. But you have to be open to it. And it certainly doesnt sound like your WH is.

Also, may I gently suggest that 'it was ju st lust' is a very unlikely scenario in a 16 year LTA. Lust drives a ONS or a short term A but 16 years is a long term relationship and psychologically speaking, even if lust started it, its highly improbable that it fuelled 16 years of infidelity. That kind of deception takes dedication, patience and will. He is avoiding the truth and needs t confront it IMO.

Sending strength!
Hang in there.


Me: WH 29
Her: BW 31 (RomanticInnocenc)
Our son: 6 months
DDay#1 Jan 8, 2014, DDay#2 Jan 10, 2014
Being given the gift of attempted R
I don't PM with female members.
"Your character is who you are when no-one else is watching".

Posts: 112 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, June 18th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you end up at a location you've been with your AP how does that make you feel? Is it possible to have no feeling about it at all?


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, June 18th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soconfusednow,

It depends on the place. Some of them, I have no feelings about. Others make me sick to my stomach.

The triggery locations have definitely lessened as the years go by.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2147 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
BrokenheartedWif
♀ Member
Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the WS that had a LTA, why did you keep it going for so long, if you weren't going to leave your spouse? Was the sex so great, or you just liked cake-eating with sex and ego kibbles, or?


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:41 AM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenheartedWif...

If you're going to ask questions of the WS's...show some respect. The jabs can certainly be left to your own WS.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197804 | Registered: May 2002
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenheartedWif;

My LTA was an EA, so it was not about the sex. It was all about the ego hits, the escape from a my life that I thought I had no control in, all about compartmentalization.

It was a way for me to get what I thought I could not get at home. The reason why i thought I could not get it at home was because I would not speak up and ask for what I wanted for fear of being told no y my BS. All crap, I know now, but at the time my FOO and broken-ness helped me believe this. The EA was 'safe' that way, no risk, no opening up emotionally, only showing the image of myself I wanted to show, and AP did the same thing with me from all I can tell.

It was all ego hits for me.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
BrokenheartedWif
♀ Member
Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deeply Scared

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful or a jab.

Trying to wrap my head around WS thinking in a LTA that was EA/PA. How and why do you live a double life for so long?


Thank You Bad Choice. My WS wouldn't talk either. It's hard to fulfill needs when you don't know what is missing and needed by the WS.

A LTA is very difficult because you have no idea what was real and what wasn't in your own life. Years are destroyed.


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've asked my wife several questions along the lines of - what happy ending did you foresee? What was the end game? I usually get a blank look, a shrug, "I didn't think about that, just wanted an escape" type of response.

So my question for our WS: During your affair, did you have a sense that this was all going to end badly at some point? Do you even allow yourself to go there?

What's prompted this question is the sense that, even 16 months later, my WW still at times seems a little shocked by the fallout. A little taken aback, as if the possibility of the destruction of the marriage/family never really occurred to her.

Thanks to all who respond.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1388 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.