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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On this day, I believe that if I had read this site and things like "Not Just Friends" that I would have made different choices.

I don't quite know if that is the truth, or just how I feel with the benefit of months of therapy and self-inspection. I'd like to believe that I'd look at all of this pain and loss, and the warnings of Not Just Friends, and seek help for my problems.

I'd like to believe that.

I have a sneaking suspicion that I personally might have needed to hit rock bottom before I got my head straight. That I needed to face losing everything that is important to me to realize what IS important.

That kind of seems like saying that my As were inevitable. And that doesn't sound right, either.

I know NOW that I wasn't going to not have an A by "white knuckling it." I look back and see I had done that for a while. Without fixing ME, I think it was only a matter of time before I did something awful. Maybe not an A. Maybe gambling or drugs or something else.

So I guess the question is whether these stories would have made me perk up and say "Hey, I'm just like that guy, and I need help." I think I would have. But I am not convinced.

FWIW, I have IC in an hour. So I'm navel gazing more than normal this afternoon.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I worry about my children, too. I think that giving them a more open family where they are unafraid to talk about emotions will help (neither me nor BW grew up in those kinds of houses). I think about getting them to ask for help like I did not will help.

My kids are tweens right now. So all of this emotion and asking for help and admitting weakness stuff may go out the window in two years.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@lostmylight...
could write a book about the passive aggressive shit that I pulled in my M but since you asked what I specifically got out of it, I would have to say that I got the feeling of being smarter than everyone else because I felt I was pulling something over on people by keeping secrets and being vague about my feelings, any information or anything. That is the same feeling I had as a teenager and I carried it through to my M.

I led a life of inaction and resistance and because of that, there was no hope of having any true intimacy. I was always trying to avoid conflict but created more conflict through avoidance and not taking responsibility for my actions.

I blamed all my problems on everyone else other than myself, so I could maintain my victim role. I was extremely sarcastic and mean spirited to overcompensate for being insecure and tried to hide behind a smile.

I read your other thread and felt that your husbands actions were very petty and passive aggressive. He needs to recognize his actions are not serving him or your relationship well in the long run.

Wow. This is very helpful, lost! Thank you. While my H is not sarcastic or mean-spirited, your first two paragraphs make so much sense to me when I think of my H - of being smarter and feeling as if you were pulling something over on someone. It seems so...13 or something (but this is when my H's dad was caught for cheating and his mom fell into depression). Interesting about the vague comment too as our MC suggested that he was "vague" with his answers when we first started attending.

Thank you for reading my other post. I haven't updated yet but we have had some serious convos since and he went to IC today. I will be sure to share your post with him as well.

@Baxtersbff, Yes, I totally agree that PA behavior is not limited to WS. I know I do it too. Thank goodness we are becoming more conscience about our words and actions.

Really appreciate your time, all.
LA


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
pastthelies
♀ Member
Member # 39269
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, April 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Razor.

I was just trying to answer honestly what was asked of me! I think everyone on here can help or relate to someone! You never know who reads what you post but hope is that it helps at least one person!


Posts: 64 | Registered: May 2013
GotMyLifeBck2013
♂ Member
Member # 40531
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For WS's who are divorced from their BS. My ex is over the top nice to me. Jokey, always makes kind conversation. I have almost zero to say to her and really dont want to be friends with her or be nice. During her affair to say she was cruel is an understatement. And she refused to admit to everything i know she did do, so i know she was never going to live in the truth and try to grow and learn from it. I just dont want to associate with her. Why would a wayward be so decent and kind when just a short year prior they were threatenting to kill and every other sort of cruelty? I mean i took the hint, k? I gave her freedom and i didnt lock her up for any one of the various criminal acts she did, but now i really dont see the point of her being my buddy. Whats that all about?


I define me! I don't just survive, I thrive!!

Me: fBH 46
Her: exWW 42
DDay: Nov 1, 2012
Divorced: September 17, 2013


Posts: 289 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ohio
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't recall seeing many D'd WS hanging around SI (I could be wrong) so I'll take a stab.

Why would a wayward be so decent and kind when just a short year prior they were threatening to kill and every other sort of cruelty?

Same reason dickhead WS, *supposedly* in R, say to their BS "OMFG, do I have to answer this same question again? Aren't you over this already?" They deflect, project, or compartmentalize so they don't have to deal with the guilt and shame of it all. So they can stay in A-justification fantasyland. If XW can say to herself and anyone who listens, "Look how well GMLB2013 and I get along! The D was amicable, we just grew apart. Nothing I did, certainly!"

XW wants to look like a neutral party. Hell, she probably considers herself a victim. FTB.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
badchoice
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Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why would a wayward be so decent and kind when just a short year prior they were threatenting to kill and every other sort of cruelty? I mean i took the hint, k? I gave her freedom and i didnt lock her up for any one of the various criminal acts she did, but now i really dont see the point of her being my buddy. Whats that all about?

I am not D yet, but that is the road we are on.

My attitude towards my BW has changed since Dday. To say I was cruel after Dday with months of TT is an understatement. My turnaround came once I opened myself up to actually feeling and caring about myself and others. During my As I only thought about myself, put myself and my needs first.

Now that I have moved on and am committed to being different and a person I am proud of, I am treating my BW the way she deserves to be treated, even if that is in S and D. Does that make sense?


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
GotMyLifeBck2013
♂ Member
Member # 40531
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, April 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the feedback, believe it or not im a pretty upbeat guy badchoice and it sounds like you may have truly had a change of heart, but im more inclined to think 20 wrongs nails it here. Wish it was more like your scenario but what she is now and her mind, knowing her 16 year history, im pretty sure she wants to shade herself from the light of the truth.


I define me! I don't just survive, I thrive!!

Me: fBH 46
Her: exWW 42
DDay: Nov 1, 2012
Divorced: September 17, 2013


Posts: 289 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ohio
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who here has had a LTA more than 2 years and is on the path of R?

Did any of your spouse not 180 you and you are R after a LTA?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
somethingremorse
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Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who here has had a LTA more than 2 years and is on the path of R?

Did any of your spouse not 180 you and you are R after a LTA?

This is where I am at. Had a 3 year LTA. Was caught in the act by OBS on Saturday night. It took me probably through the weekend to start to get it. But I knew right away that I wanted to keep my M. I'd like to think I was remorseful right from DDay. I know now that there was a lot more to discover about me and our M to be really remorseful. But at least I was pointed in the right direction right away.

There are two parts to that equation. My BW didn't kick me out. I looked for MC first thing Monday morning. Had a MC appt on Tuesday afternoon. Finished my TT on Tuesday morning. Somehow, BW gave me a chance right from the start.

Looking back (and it's only six months. Seems like half of my life has been spent trying to find a way to get through my screwups), I don't know if BW was in shock when we went to MC. It's completely possible that by the time she fully realized the effects of my A's, that we already had some MC under our belt, and a path to try to fix it.

Even if that is true, I recognize that R is totally because of BW's strength and her commitment to me. I am thankful and humbled by her grace.

It's not all wine and roses. We have some aspects of our relationship where we have been closer than ever. We text throughout the day. We schedule date nights once a month (the last few years, it was once a year, if that). We check in and talk MUCH more often. I don't swallow my feelings and let resentment build up, and we make sure that we do not misunderstand each others' statements.

On the other hand, there are times where BW has to ignore me. I mean the "go to some other room so I don't have to think about you" kind of thing. Over the last few months, there hasn't been much physical contact. Sex has dribbled to a stop. I wouldn't call it a 180, but the distance between us varies all of the time.

So there is at least one instance of a WS engaged in a LTA where there was no separation, no 180, in R. For six months at least. Maybe that gives you hope or reassurance. But each relationship is different, and you shouldn't judge your M or R against anyone else.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somethingremores
But each relationship is different, and you shouldn't judge your M or R against anyone else.

I was just curious, I know no one story is the same. Do I have hope or reassurance...nope. That went out a long time ago. I am just trying to get a feel for what maybe I should expect. We been separated for 6 months.

Hopefully I can get this perspective from a woman as well on here.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
hurtininHouston
♂ Member
Member # 39250
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been reading this whole post. I am 13 mos post DDay. My wife is working hard and has from day 2. I am just so f$#king pridefull. It hurts still. My pride, my ego, my sense of trust. Everything. She ALWAYS preached agains affairs. Should have known.
I still have the thoughts of them together. IT was once. They planned it all out. She was going to see her sister for the weekend and get a skin procedure done. I told her have fun. Gave her money. I funded it. She didn't go straight to her sisters. Her sister knew though. She spent one night with him. All I keep going through is him on top of her. Her letting him. Here enjoying it. On and on and on. I can't let these thoughts go. I know he wasn't better than me. But how much did she enjoy it.. What does she think of it now. Of course as with most of you she says none. She doesn't think of it. I can't buy that. She has to remember the high and enjoyment it gave her. Texting, calling, plotting. she says sex was "uncomfortable" the whole time. Then he went limp. What about the long 2-5 minutes before that. It still doesn't sit well in my stomach. He went limp. He didn't c@m in me. Sounds like the hangover. Did he really go limp. Did he truly not finish. I will never truly know. was it only 2 minutes or all night and the next morning. If it was me. It would have been all night, the next morning and lunch!!! I don't know if there is a true question in here. Do I believe her? How do I get those nagging thoughts out of my mind finally. It happened. I know that. I can't change it. it just eats me alive daily. I don't bring it up. But I think of it daily. DAILY! How she ate lunch with me, only thinking of getting away to drive to meet him. I know she already planned to give herself to him. What did she truly think of eating lunch across from me. lying directly to me. I even bought her an outfit to wear while there. Chump. That is the way I still feel often. How could she do this to her marriage? We are the epitome of the perfect family. now it feels so damn tarnished. Can I ever truly get over it!!!!!?????

Posts: 60 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Houston
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like Houston's question. I am screwed up, sure, by the sex, but being across the table from my WW on Valentine's Day at dinner with the kids while she had her travel plans all ready for the next morning to go meet OM on a nice trip. That mask she wore - now that is trauma.

so, I also ask to WSs houston's question above. Thanks.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 867 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurt, would it matter, if they'd (sorry) had multi-orgasmic hot sex all night? Would it have wounded your pride less? I do believe her account of the sex, it's not surprising at all. My first AP couldn't even seal the deal. The second was only interested in pleasing himself. Lots of stories on SI about how A sex has been mediocre or even awful. Again...does it matter? She betrayed you, which is really possibly unforgivable.

I share your doubt that she never thinks of it, though. If she truly never does, IMO that's a potential problem. We're 12 months out, and yeah, I think of it. Not fondly, but I think, WTH was wrong with me?! How could I have done that? My therapist and BH both see it as a positive development, that I'm kicking myself now.

What you're describing sounds like PTSD. That shit is real. Have you seen a counselor ever? My therapist told me when we have a traumatic experience (yours qualifies) the memories can get stuck in our brain, and we can enter an endless feedback loop. There are techniques for filing those memories away, to free ourselves from being plagued by those thoughts daily.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, April 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack, are you wondering how WW could sit with you, hold your hand, look into your eyes and an hour later, be heading off to meet AP? Well I did it. Several times.

For me it was escapism. Dissociation was my coping mechanism, one I'd used my whole life. It really felt as if I was stepping into an alternate personality. BH didn't exist in Fantasyland. AP didn't exist IRL. Two separate lives. That's how I was able to look BH in the eye and tell him how much I loved him and our life, and 5 minutes later be emailing AP about how I couldn't wait for our illicit encounter.

It's crazymaking. Irrational. Illogical. I'm not sure you could ever understand it unless you lived thru it. It's like, do you feel guilty for shooting a bunch of people when you play a video game? It's not a great analogy, but I switched into an alternate reality. Then I shut the PS3 off, and went back to my life.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 1:37 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsamurai
Who here has had a LTA more than 2 years and is on the path of R?
Did any of your spouse not 180 you and you are R after a LTA?
My affair was 7 years with the same AP. 4 years of emotional/online/cybersex and 3.5 years EA/PA. My spouse did not 180 me and in fact looking back I cannot believe he did not give up on me. It would have been a completely reasonable thing for him to do.

It took me a long time to come out of the fog and then it took me a long time to develop the mental tools to be able to figure myself out and start giving BS what he needs to heal.

After I found SI (D-day+a few weeks) and read Not Just Friends shortly thereafter I began to have an idea of just how much of an overhaul my brain wiring needed. However, I had no idea if I was even capable of doing it or how long it would take or if BS could wait that long for me to get there. We tried MC within a couple months of D-day but the counselor said it was pointless until I got farther along in my personal work.

He did wait for me. One thing I want to be clear on is that he has never allowed me to rugsweep. He has had to hold a lot of things in his mental waiting room until I have gotten to the point of having the ability to navigate the emotional/communication part of working through them. It's been a rough go but we are moving in a good direction.

Okay. All that said, from what I have read it sounds as if your WW is not really moving toward remorse. Has she done anything at all? Read a book? Learned anything about infidelity? Stopped blaming you? Anything?


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 302 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
knockeddown
♂ Member
Member # 43090
Default  Posted: 3:38 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

6 weeks from D-Day and my WW shows no remorse. To WS who showed no remorse early on--did you have any feelings of guilt, shame, embarrassment, etc? Or were those feelings covered up by sheer denial? When do you think she will hit the brick wall with her feelings? She is still with OM.


Me- BS 27 Always faithful
Her- WS 28
2 mo.? PA
Married 5 years (lived together 9)
2-year-old daughter
DDay-3/15/2014
Separated - living apart

Posts: 103 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
hurtininHouston
♂ Member
Member # 39250
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes I/ we went to therapy for a while. My therapist would keep telling me to let it go. Think happy thoughts, that the anger is unhealthy.
F*@k her! No it wouldn't help if they had amazing hot sex all night. I just want to know the truth. I want all the details and I feel she tells me the white wash so as not to hurt my feelings or make me more upset. PTSD. I don't doubt it. I need to figure out how to wire my thoughts differently. I want to be "over" this. I know I know. 3-5 years.
I know she is abhorrent of what she did. But that still doesn't really help. Maybe a little. Its when we fight all I can feel is that she can go inside and look back and feel oh how happy I was then..... all this shit really sucks. I am sorry we are all here!!!!
S

Posts: 60 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Houston
womaninflux
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Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, May 1st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somethingremorse:

I appreciate your insight.

My questions for you: "How did you let this go on so long?" and "Weren't there times when you knew you should get out of the affair? Why didn't you?"

My fWH said the A was "off and on" for a little over 2 years. More like a little over 2.5 years if we are all being honest here. I think towards the end the AP was trying to get him to leave me and trying to make him jealous and they were getting into a lot of arguments about him dragging his feet.

You did not ask for advice but here is some from a BW who discovered her WS in a 2.5 year affair. When you feel like there is distance between you and BS, you need to work to be the bridge builder. You really need to make the effort. You need to apologize (only do this if you are sincere about it). As time goes on the WS (IME) seems to think "OK we're moving forward and I just want to put all of it behind me" and they ease up on their verbal remorse. Don't do that! I am haunted by this affair every day. I've come to a level of acceptance but I still feel the pain and hurt of it all over again. Often. And I am 13 months past DD. Just saying "I want you to know how sorry I am I put you through this" means so much. It means you aren't just glossing over this or avoiding thinking about the consequences because it makes you uncomfortable.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 892 | Registered: Jun 2013
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 2nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EvolvingSoul,
Okay. All that said, from what I have read it sounds as if your WW is not really moving toward remorse. Has she done anything at all? Read a book? Learned anything about infidelity? Stopped blaming you? Anything?

Nope, and I don't think she will. Like I said before, I already checked out. MC to me is just going for co-parenting. The only thing she seems to do is read her bible and devotions...


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
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