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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mswc101 - I am looking for help with an uncooperative Wayward Spouse. He has admitted he has wronged but doesn't feel that he 'should have to ' disclose all information and answer my remaining q's (he only answered my reaction wtf q's a year ago now) and I am struggling with his lack of transparency and willingness to help me gain clarity. As well as a few more secrets that have popped up (deleted emails regarding password changes on porn accounts that have chat capabilities). Any advice would be appreciated :)

Gently said, he is getting away with being a un-remorseful and uncooperative wayward because you are letting him get away with this. Your settling for this crap and you need to step up your game plan.

You need to plainly and forcefully tell him that his "shouldn't have to" attitude is no longer acceptable and that you are not willing to settle for anything less than a very pro-active "I need and want to" attitude.

You need to go and read this post again. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

And when you're done with that one, read this. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=256092

There is no denying that he is is only regretful (sorry he got caught) and not remorseful (horrified that you are hurting due to his stupid choices and willing to do anything to heal you).

You need to push him off the friken fence and on one side or the other. That is what the 180 does. It empowers you and pushes him into making decisions. Its not always easy but it is needed. You set the rules and boundaries and if he can't or won't comply, then the consequences have to come into play. If you can't do this, then be prepared for him to just go back to the old rug-sweeping habits.

Ask your fellow BS's in General for advice on specific issues.

With respects to books that might help, per your post in the book club, there are a lot of recommendations here. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/books.asp You should also read Shirley Glass's book, Not Just Friends as it one of the most recommended books here and just full of great advice for you and your H.

HUFI

Stilllovinghim - Advice to the WS - You have got to work every single day on yourself and on your M if you want this to survive. This is the most important thing in your life. This is the air in your lungs. Don't squander it.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3265 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
mswc101
♀ New Member
Member # 41895
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, March 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thankyou hufi :) I guess I have, unsubconciously just yesterday and today started with the 180 process. I didn't contact him at all yesterday and the robotic 'I love you' has not spilled from my lips. don't get me wrong - underneath it all I do love him with all my heart - hence i'm here trying to get through this, but he questioned me this morning after I left the house via sms as to shy no 'I love you' I responded that he hadn't said it for days also, and that I just have a lot of stuff going on - both the 'us' stuff and the fact that I have an operation coming up in a few days that I just need to mentally prepare myself for, and, as in the pst he hasn't been supportive of my operation fears (have a cup of concrete and gtf over it) I have said that I haven't bothered coming to him for support on this. He appears to be a little on the back foot right at this moment. maybe food for thought for him - ie: the/my world does not revolve around him?

Posts: 8 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: darwin
mswc101
♀ New Member
Member # 41895
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow - hardly a day of the 180 treatment and tonight when his son went to karate he asked me if we can sit down and get these q's answered. went really well - no agro what so ever and he appeared to take things onboard that I was saying and he did answer all questions, to my knowledge, honestly and openly. wow. how relieved do I feel? came about just by me not being a doormat anymore and being a little more forceful in my stance. All I can say is ill keep you posted on the future developments. thanks all for support thus far and I will be checking in to communicate progress - this is just the turning point, as well as seeing how you all are doing - what a great site

Posts: 8 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: darwin
joannie
♀ Member
Member # 42486
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband will not talk about things anymore...don't want details, in fact the least i know about ow the better..but do need to hear reassuring words, do need to clear my heart out now and then. My question is why do i feel like everything is in my hands to make R work, he does seem happier now, less moody, more loving in many ways but it is always me who says i love you first then he says it, to hear him say it first would make my day, my week etc. if i don't say it for a day i have to just to hear him say it.


me BS 56yr
Him WS 55yr
Married 34 years 2 sons 4 grandchildren

Posts: 126 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: France
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

joannie - My husband will not talk about things anymore... I but do need to hear reassuring words, do need to clear my heart out now and then.

When you say your H will not talk about things anymore, is he refusing to talk about the A or is this about intimacy talk between the two of you? Its understandable that you need reassurance about your importance in his life right now. Your self-esteem has taken a hit and its up to him to make you feel happy and secure. I would recommend that you and your H read the book The 5 love languages by Gary D. Chapman. If his love language is acts of service and your love language is words of affirmation, then the disconnect is quite apparent. Figuring out your respective language will make it easier for you to provide the appropriate reassurance to each other.

joannie - My question is why do i feel like everything is in my hands to make R work?

If you feel this way, it seems to me that your gut is saying that you are pulling more weight right now. R can't be reached when only one side of the team is on-board. If he hasn't gotten remorseful and proactive, then you need to consider putting the 180 into action. You need to set boundaries with regard to your needs and wants and if he can't step up the pace, you need to figure out if you can live with a very weak partner who isn't participating as much as you need.

Is he here on this site? If he isn't, then print out this post and give it to him to read. It will give him a better clue as to what he should do to help you. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

joannie - It's always me who says i love you first then he says it, to hear him say it first would make my day, my week etc. if i don't say it for a day i have to just to hear him say it.

Having suffered through this myself, he might be hesitating to say I love you due to guilt and shame. He is afraid that if he says anything, that you will give him the old " how can you say that now, if you really loved me, you never would have had the affair" look. If you are passive in nature and have always found it difficult to express deep emotion, it becomes even harder post A for the WS. He is fearful that you won't believe him even if he does say it. He feels it safer if he keeps his mouth shut and doesn't risk being slammed by either you or by himself for his failure.

HUFI

NewAttitude - stop thinking of yourself as a barrel and start thinking of yourself as a well. We are all wells with unplumbed depths that are hidden and ready to be tapped for reserve during bad and stressful situations. Don't limit yourself by imaging you are a barrel. You are a well and you can dig in and go as deep and far as she needs you to. There is no end to our abilities.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3265 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's my question and hopefully someone can help me because it has been bothering me.

Okay Aug 2009 started A. It ended 2012. I moved out and got my own apartment, while at the apartment wh or stbx was with me all the time, either I was at our home or he was at apartment, spent tons of time trying to figure out us R. It was a roller coaster to say the least. Nov 2013, I move back home, we do have separate rooms per my request. Now, sense I move back home, WE DO NOTHING TOGETHER, he talks about us getting D and we need to move on, I need to get my own place (I agree)if he is going to be like this. He would like to keep his options open, blah blah,,,, Then says, when you get your own place we are just going to LOVE one another an be happy. I say" well it is not going to be like before, this will be it"! Done with this. This was not what was suppose to be happening here. I moved back thinking we were R. and I feel like a roomey.

Sorry, my question is this:
How is he the one who doesn't want me? I didn't have the A, I put up with his shit for 5 yrs, willing to forgive and try repeatedly? He knows I just wanted his love and to be a family again. How is he looking at me like I am not worth the fight? It hurts my feelings so bad because I don't know what I did to make him feel this way about me? I loved him, I would argue my point of a lot of things, I am not perfect. He says" Maybe God is leading me away and to a new life". I know he is not in an A now, and he says he likes his life and freedom to do as he pleases.
Do some WH's just change that drastically in the thinking? How can he say he loves me but doesn't want to be together, but wants to still hang out and be the best of friends and maybe get remarried one day.

It is just a question that I want someone to enlighten me on. I am giving him what he wants, but does he realize this time is it?


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2664 | Registered: Aug 2011
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Faithful -

I am giving him what he wants, but does he realize this time is it?

You cannot control him.
You cannot affect his feelings.
He decides to love you or not.
It has nothing to do with your actions.

You love him.
It has nothing to do with his actions.

If people's actions caused someone else to love them or not, you would have stopped loving him a long time ago.

You love him because it works for you.
Something about the way he treats you is familiar and safe for you.

You decide.
There are no wrong answers.

Do what works for you.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 9:24 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question, particularly for FWW's. I read, that women disconnect from the marriage/husband before that may the choice to have an affair.

1. Is that true to a certain extent?
2. What makes a WW re-connect?
3. Also I read, that WW's expect their husband to change. Did you expect him to change? Did he make any changes?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
41andthankful
♀ Member
Member # 38650
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am on the road to divorce. My WH can not accept that and is still hoping for reconciliation. Last week he told me he was working on a time line. I can see a drastic change in him since. He appears to always be crying, he barely looks at me or really talk when getting our dd. My question is why would this be so difficult, when it appeared to be easy to actually live the events he is now recounting? Did any of you write timelines? How difficult was it for you and why?

[This message edited by 41andthankful at 9:22 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seems like there are more questions here than waywards these days, but I'd like to ask one.

I have a remorseful, transparent, husband 9 months out from dday, who is trying hard to fix the mess he made, and help me heal. I truly feel loved, that our relationship is better in many ways, and that I/we can eventually get over this.

My issue is that I get stuck on how he felt then, vs. now. He had a 2 month affair with a friend, professed love, EA/PA, and did kind of all the generally hurtful and awful things that waywards do.

I cannot make peace with the fact that his reality could have been so different, so skewed. I can't get past what he thought he felt. How could he tell her she was beautiful, when he doesn't think so now? How can he have thought they had some special connection, when now he things that was a mirage? And then I wonder, what is really real? He seems clear that it was a destructive fantasy then, and that he was "wrong" about both her and the relationship (his and MC's words) but while I get it logically, I can't seem to move past it emotionally.

How can you describe your reality then vs now, if you have reconciled? Any metaphors, poems, songs, interpretive dances, or cartoons to help me get it would be appreciated. Straight old logic doesn't seem to cut it. (I don't mean that, actually. Anything would help.)

Many thanks in advance.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 4:35 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1965 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ LostSamuari

1. Is that true to a certain extent?

In my own personal experience, yes. I checked out of the marriage about a month before the A. I just gave up. For me, it was over.

2. What makes a WW re-connect?

The realisation that the M wasn't irreparable. Finding out how much our M meant to BH. Feeling, even amidst the shit storm I had created, his love for me.

3. Also I read, that WW's expect their husband to change. Did you expect him to change? Did he make any changes?

That's difficult to answer. Our M before the A was not perfect, we had serious issues. During R I expect these to be addressed and for us to work on them together, for it to be different. So change in that respect, yes but I don't expect him to change as a person, no.
To me, R is about growing together as a couple, rebuilding our M and our lives. We need to heal but I wouldn't want him to change.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@41andthankful

I'm no expert and I didn't write a time line (I offered but BH declined). But to me, it sounds like the time line has kick started your WH into taking a long hard look at his actions. I think he's realising what he's done and how it's destroyed his life. He's looking in the mirror and seeing a monster. That's why he's upset. However, until he starts talking about how his actions have affected you, he isn't 'getting it' but the process has started.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ Bionicgal

No interprative dances, I'm afraid. I do have a shadow puppet show that will explain everything though

In all seriousness, as you know the feelings aren't real. I realise that can be a hard concept to understand. It's not that the feelings were real and he's lying now. It's not that he was faking the feelings with the AP and being honest now either. He believed at the time those feelings to be real but he mistakenly believed those feelings to be about the AP. They weren't.

He told her he loved her. He didn't, he loved the reflection of himself he saw mirrored in her.

He told her she was beautiful. Sure, he may have found her physically attractive. But beautiful, no. She was having an A with a MM. Those people are not beautiful inside. Those compliments are a trade off. He complimented her so she would continue to hold up the mirror for him and he could carry on admiring himself.

The A wasn't about you. It wasn't about the AP either. It was (selfishly) all about him and his need to feel better about himself.

Not sure if that helps at all. That's just my feelings about it. I'll try to come up with a better analogy for you.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
HotMessInTX
♀ New Member
Member # 42417
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamuari
1. Is that true to a certain extent?

For me, yes. I already have connection issues but I most definitely found myself detaching more and more. I'm not sure I had the strongest connection to begin with however.

2. What makes a WW re-connect?

This is a tough one, I wanted to connect/re-connect but it was easier with the AP so I didn't make the effort with my H. Seeing the pain I caused and realizing if I'm lucky I only have one shot at this, I made the choice to make the effort to get what I really wanted. No easy way out this time.

3. Also I read, that WW's expect their husband to change. Did you expect him to change? Did he make any changes?

I don't have any expectations of my husband changing, he is an amazing husband that most women would probably hit me upside the head wondering what the hell I was thinking. I certainly would have a wish list, but they are things that I don't think are changeable. Some things I wish he had the desire to do, not just do because he knows I want them. Not sure if that makes sense. I don't think someone can change that. Its there or it isn't.


DDay: 2/01/14

Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Texas
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai
I read, that women disconnect from the marriage/husband before that may the choice to have an affair.
1. Is that true to a certain extent?

Yes. Necessarily, I think. I had to convince myself that my M and H were fundamentally unsatisfactory, in order to justify my As.

2. What makes a WW re-connect?

It took me several months to have the "OMFG what have I done?!" moment. First I had to shake off the very thick fog. Part of that was taking full responsibility for my actions and realizing that my infidelity was all about me, my internal damage. It had zero, zip, nada to do with BH, our M, or the APs.

3. Also I read, that WW's expect their husband to change. Did you expect him to change? Did he make any changes?

Yeah at first I absolutely wanted him to change! But again...once I accepted that my infidelity had nothing to do with BH or our M, I let go of that. I had to let go of the outcome of our M. My BH has made changes, but because he chose to. He's him, I'm me. And "me" is very much in progress.

BionicGal

Seems like there are more questions here than waywards these days, but I'd like to ask one.

This thread is so cyclical! A couple months ago it seems like we'd get one question a week.

He seems clear that it was a destructive fantasy then, and that he was "wrong" about both her and the relationship (his and MC's words) but while I get it logically, I can't seem to move past it emotionally.

I think of it as an alternate personality, and it really felt like that. (Even though I had a little bit of a clinical basis for that, my therapist says I dissociated due to PTSD from CSA...it's no excuse. I knew exactly what I was doing, and how wrong it was.) Answering the APs' emails or speaking to them...it was like I stepped into a phone booth and emerged as Shameless SuperSlut. Then I doffed my cape and returned to my life. BH was completely blindsided on DDay.

he loved the reflection of himself he saw mirrored in her.

AP1 started using the "L" word early on, despite my protests, because (his words) he wanted to have a "love affair." But it was all a projection. A chemical high we fueled in each other. After we outed AP1 to OBS, he pretty much threatened to destroy me. Clearly, not true love.

It's hard now for me to relate to that cheater personality. Almost like she should have a different name.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response thereís a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1180 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenButTrying, HotMessInTX, 20WrongsVs1

Ladies, thank you very much. There is a lot take away in those few sentences. The detachment from the husband, which is a huge blow and a choice formed by the Wife. I have to sit here and look at my wife and think, how far is she gone? That is something that is going to plague me, and is she still trying to disconnect from me.

Reconnecting seems very scary. Each one of you presented a different opinion. One of you kept feeling your husbands love, one of you wasn't sure but decided to give it a try and one of you had that AHA moment and woke up.

I know there are some things I have to change for the good of the marriage, but at this point I feel all the weight of the marriage is on me. I feel like she thinks I am nothing, especially when she made the remark, "Win her back."

Now an interesting thing that is brought up in one of the response.

First I had to shake off the very thick fog.

How does one go about shaking off the fog, and what helped any of you ladies get out of the fog. Was it something your husband said or did, or was it something you discovered on your own?

Thank you for taking time to answer. You give me hope when the candle is at is dimmest.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
nekorb
♀ Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all - I have a question.

I have an un remorseful WH, the A is still going strong, we are heading for divorce (I'm filing), the kids have been told, etc, etc.

WHY does WH continue to lie about the A? Why does he bother to say he isn't seeing her that often when he sees her every day and has sex with her pretty much every day?

WHY is he also lying I to the kids about how much he is seeing her? (I feel like that gives them false hope.)

Does he believe the lies are truth? Is he delusional?

It I drives me crazy. I know he is seeing her. I have proof. He actually told the kids he doesn't even think the relationship is going to work out and that he isn't going to move in with her or marry her....at the same time telling OW how great their life is going to be together!

WHY DOES HE DO THIS????

I hate lying so much....


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, March 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bbt- that is actually helpful...I suppose I'll need to hear it 100 times before it feels real, though.

Lost samurai - my h describes a similar 3rd person-type feeling now, and said he felt like a ghost then.

So appreciative for your help.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1965 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, March 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai, I don't think I can be of much help. My disconnect, the A, the fog and it's subsequent lifting all happened while my BH was out the country. He didn't 'see' any of it.

What made the fog lift? The OM asked me to leave my BH. I didn't want to. Simple as that.
I think it helped that when I dragged my feet about leaving, the OM turned into a complete arsehole. It's hard to be foggy about a man who threatens your children if you don't leave your marriage.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, March 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai -

disconnect

1. Is that true to a certain extent?

What do you mean by disconnected? I kept trying to stay connected, hoping the monster inside me would not read its ugly head.

2. What makes a WW re-connect?

It's a decision.

3. Also I read, that WW's expect their husband to change. Did you expect him to change?

No. The A had nothing to do with him. He has always been worth five of any other man.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

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