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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deena04 - I am a firm "not stay around if he cheats" kind of girl. I agreed to try, but I know in my heart there is no way I will ever feel the same again or even want to be his wife anymore.

For some, the affair is a deal breaker right from the get go and for others, its a realization that comes after trying to reconcile. Either way, the decision from the BS to leave is utterly one that belongs to the BS. He may beg, he may plead but in the final moments, its your decision.

However, I would like to ask why you feel the way you do when you say your a firm never stay girl?

Do you feel that "once a cheater always a cheater" is a truism? Was his affair truly a sign of character defect (serial cheater) or was this a classic "perfect storm" affair. Is Redemption something that just can't happen? Do you fear that he can't change his spots or have you just lost respect for him and his bad decision?

I recently posted a thread in both the WS and R forums that touch on how hard it can be to make the hard decision to either S or D. From what you say in your profile, it seems that while you made a decision to R, in fact, your heart was never fully in it at all. Is that still the case?

Your right that you will never feel the same again. Marriages that survive affairs don't get better because of the affair, in large part, they survive despite the affair. Closer and deeper relationship build on a honest understanding of the faults and strengths of each partner along with great communication skills developed in the aftermath of the affair can exist. In some respects, the trials and tribulations can be a source of empowerment resulting in a more authentic partnership which did not exist in the pre-A days. Still sucks, though.

I think you need to eventually decide what it is that you can settle for. If this new post A husband sucks and or if the marriage still sucks, then do yourself a favor and leave. Better a new life on your own where you have hope for a future than being stuck living in a marriage that you can't stomach anymore.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
deena04
♀ Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, March 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you! Hufi, I made the decision because I do love him, but it's not enough. I no longer respect him, trust him, or believe him. He did this to me and didn't feel I should know about it. I am not in love anymore, nor will I ever be again most likely. I just can't be with him after this. It's a personal thing for me: fidelity and trust are the most important things for me in a relationship above anything else. I don't have those things anymore. I want him to be ok and thought I would at least try just in case my brain and heart were wrong, but it is not working for me. He tries and does well, but I am gone. I am getting my ducks in a row now. Still technically in R because I haven't done anything permanent yet, but losing hope by the day. It was my definite deal breaker.


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want out!

Posts: 877 | Registered: Dec 2013
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Freaked OUT!

To WS - How many of you did everything right from DDay on?

My H went NC, totally transparent, IC, MC, books, articles, websites, remorseful, understanding, owns his shit, ALL the stuff he is supposed to do perfectly - even though I tell him I don't trust him, and end many sentences in MC about "us" with "As far as I know". (There was TT for a couple days after DDAy)

I am committed to R as well. I do what I'M supposed to do. I have never yelled obscenities at him. I don't "jab" at him about the A. I am loving, kind, considerate, and caring. I have REALLY tried to understand where he is.

We are loving and affectionate. We talk. We spend time together.

But I am FREAKED OUT because this seems to be too good to be true. He was such an incredible liar to me during the affair, and NOW he knows all the things that made me suspicious, and what makes me feel more trusting, etc (like a road map for the perfect lie, right?!) So I worry that he is just doing everything he knows he SHOULD do, but isn't REALLY being honest. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to find out he lied to me about something, or finding our he is in contact w OW.

Our MC says this is a defense mechanism. When i start to feel things are good, I begin to look for things to tell me they aren't because if I believe they are really good and begin to really trust again, that I put myself in a place to get hurt again. I know this is true.

I thought it might help if there were some other WS who could tell me they "got it" from day one and did everything right. maybe then it will be easier to believe he is doing it.


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 122 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
Hosea
♂ Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shayna71:
I thought it might help if there were some other WS who could tell me they "got it" from day one and did everything right. maybe then it will be easier to believe he is doing it.

My former Wayward Wife isn't on here, but I can partly answer this question, from a Betrayed perspective.

We had a partial D-Day, one caused by my own discovery of something very suspicious though not conclusive. I'd suspected- and accused- her of an affair before that, which she denied (to both me, and really, herself.) But when I found it, and moved out, the shock for her was profound-- and it cracked her affair delusion apart. She hastened to bring it to an end, then lied about it for many months.

During that time, she was growing ever more disgusted with herself, her actions, and the manipulations of her Affair Partner. He pushed for renewal of the affair, re-asserting his false narrative of its transcendent meaning. (He was a PRO at adultery rationalization and moral justification, having done it before.)

But it just made her ever more sick, more repulsed by him, and ultimately, ever more convicted of her own unworthiness to remain married to me.

Eventually, her own conviction and guilt became too great. She'd lied so many times to keep covering up her past actions, and couldn't keep doing it and still telling me "I love you" or "I really want to stay married to you."

So she confessed, and in the perfect, broken way that Betrayeds long for. She expected divorce, and knew she deserved repudiation. She just wanted forgiveness, and said of even that, "I know I have no right to ask. I just hope so badly you can grant it to me one day."

It made forgiveness easier to grant. Because she honored me, finally, by surrendering the very future of the marriage solely to me. With no conditions or demands. No blaming of my past actions. Nothing.

I can't say everything was PERFECT. We had the predictable setbacks. But she is a different person--a completely different person-- as a result of forgiveness. She is a better woman than I married. A truer woman than I've met. And I neither doubt her love, her gratitude, nor her faithfulness.

I understand the fear-- the fear of being conned again. There's always the chance that could happen- to you, or me. Only time, lots and lots of time, will give you a fuller picture of whether the changes you see on the outside are borne out of changes you can't see on the inside.

I hope for you, and your husband, that they are.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of the WS's take a long time to show remorse?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Long time" is relative. But yes. I'd say it was fully six months for me.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response thereís a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1105 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai - Did any of the WS's take a long time to show remorse?

What defines a long time? Are you referring to a period of weeks, months or even years before the WS found remorse?

I think its more common for the WS to find themselves regretting their affairs in the days and weeks directly after D-day. I think it takes a few weeks, even a few months of seeing our BS's fall apart in pain and sorrow before we really find remorse. IMHO, I'm not sure that a WS can actually say they are fully into R if they have not found remorse.

For some WS's, especially the ones that continue to hide the affair even when caught or those who find themselves in the fog for weeks and months, dithering about whether to leave or stay, finding true remorse may take a very long time. In fact, I think it can be said for some that they never do find true remorse. IMHO, I would think that if you can go for a year or more, seeing your BS fall apart emotionally and physically in front of you and not feel remorse, then your ability to empathize is zero and you may never find it.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
griefandrelief
♀ Member
Member # 42210
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Those WS who make the decision to leave the marriage at the time of the dday - and then tell BS that you love the AP deeply. How much of this is a type of hysterical bonding with the AP to alleviate your guilt about hurting your BS and how much is it really true?

If you moved in with AP on dday, were you more mean to BS to "help" them make the break in the marriage? And if so, did you do it because it was easier for you to think BS hates you than to do the hard work of breaking the "addiction" to AP and R with BS?

Do WS REALLY fall in love with APs? Or is it a defense mechanism to justify the behavior? Is it different with LTAs?


Love ... dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings. -Anais Nin
D-day 1/24/14. Divorcing. Moving forward in fits and starts.

Posts: 110 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: kansas
griefandrelief
♀ Member
Member # 42210
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And if it takes time to feel remorse, what if divorce goes through and even a M to AP (albeit quite hasty) happens and THEN WS is remorseful?

If you did divorce after dday, did you try to win BS back ever or was D the thing that stopped you from expressing true R?

[This message edited by griefandrelief at 7:43 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Love ... dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings. -Anais Nin
D-day 1/24/14. Divorcing. Moving forward in fits and starts.

Posts: 110 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: kansas
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you did divorce after dday, did you try to win BS back ever or was D the thing that stopped you from expressing true R?

I did not try to win XH back after D-day; I accepted and respected his decision to divorce. The divorce did not stop me from feeling remorse.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do WS REALLY fall in love with APs?

Speaking only for myself, I considered myself in love with AP during the affair because he was my ex. At the time of the affair, I rationalized it by feeling that I had never stopped loving him and would never have married XH had I known that he (the AP) would have wanted to get back together (he dumped me 3.5 years prior to start of A).

Looking back, I should have had way more self-respect than to carry a torch for someone so indecisive about me that he couldn't muster up the guts to ask for me back until I was married to someone else. And it goes without saying that I should have had more self-respect than to commit adultery.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
griefandrelief
♀ Member
Member # 42210
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken: If your X had indicated that the D was not something he was completely happy about, would you have tried to express R?


Love ... dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings. -Anais Nin
D-day 1/24/14. Divorcing. Moving forward in fits and starts.

Posts: 110 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: kansas
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your X had indicated that the D was not something he was completely happy about, would you have tried to express R?

In this context I'm assuming "express R" means express remorse? If so: I did express it to him, even though I knew he wanted to divorce. And he definitely indicated that he was not happy about the divorce, at all---in fact he was very upset about the divorce, and he regrets divorcing now. But it was something he felt he had to do...and I agreed completely with him (and still do). There was no way we could have reconciled under the circumstances, even though I wanted to.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
griefandrelief
♀ Member
Member # 42210
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your replies. I find your post D reconciliation a powerful message of hope for people to heal and find a good ending.


Love ... dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings. -Anais Nin
D-day 1/24/14. Divorcing. Moving forward in fits and starts.

Posts: 110 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: kansas
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, March 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are welcome, and thank you for the kind words.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Long time I mean months or days to show remorse. I am starting to think I shouldn't expect remorse anytime soon with my current situation. 5 months out for DDay and she claims she did show remorse but I am not sure.

And honestly what did remorse look like. If I say something is bothering me she says she is sorry. Am I in a dog and I can't see some of her remorse.

How long did remorse last for you?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to say that Hufi's post on WS's struggles moved me to tears. I showed it to my H and he identified with the majority of it.

Thanks so much, Hufi!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1728 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai - And honestly what did remorse look like? If I say something is bothering me she says she is sorry. Am I in a dog and I can't see some of her remorse? How long did remorse last for you?

I can't remember who posted it but recently a member described finding remorse as "when it happens, you will know it, its tangible in its effect on the WS" and I believe that to be true for a lot of the WS community.

While remorse may differ from WS to WS, I think I can be 100% confident that merely saying "sorry" is not proof of remorse. After all, I can say the words without feeling the feelings. Being sorry that I got caught is not remorseful. I think that remorse demands more than just words.

If you read the quotes below, you will see that a open willingness to step forward and support healing is a major component of remorse. The focus of the WS has to be on your pain and your healing and a remorseful WS will try their hardest in this regard. Not saying a remorseful WS will always be the model spouse, after all, they still have the same old habits and coping techniques to deal with post A as before but the intent to be supportive and pro-active in healing has to be there.

Now for some of us, myself included, on the day when I had to really see how much damaged I had just inflicted on LF, I was in shock, devastated at what I had done and terrified that I would never be able to make this right. I cried, sobbed and cried some more. It can be that dramatic. and yet for others, its something that comes quietly in the dark, in the quiet hours of the day and perhaps tears are the only sign of the pain.

I'm 6 years out and I don't think true remorse goes away. After all, each time the BS triggers or each time the affair impacts some other thing in our lives, the reminder of the pain and hurt should be rekindling the feelings of remorse.

You can check out the healing library at http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_ws.asp#FAQ10 and I think these quotes might be insightful.


OktoberMest
- When the intent behind the actions is driven by selfishness then there can be no remorse. When those same actions are done to improve one's self to learn from the disaster we created, and/or to help and support the BS, remorse can follow. A remorseful WS does not have to be in R and likewise R can start without a remorseful WS; but it cannot progress far and surely, will not succeed without a WS developing remorse.

Lostinthismess - Remorse for my fwh looks like pain. Like his soul has been shredded and he's slowly stitching it back together. I see him struggle with his fear of losing me and his family. I see him hate himself, sobbing at how could he have actually done it. It looks like a lot of work, to reshape himself and realize that there's still more to do. He looks weary and broken, but determined. That's what remorse looks like here....

Jrazz - Signs of true remorse regardless of where you are at include COMPLETE transparency and some degree of humility or ownership. Some people say "I'm sorry" and don't mean it. The ones that say it with humility are easier to spot - they don't hurl it at you and they don't expect that those two words are going to fix the situation. They are just. plain. sorry.

sadtoo - Remorse is different for everyone and how they express it is different. But the result should MAKE SENSE and FEEL GOOD to the BS.

steadfast1973 - Regret still focuses on how they feel about what they did, remorse is focused on how what they did makes YOU feel. If that makes any sense.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

HUFI

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 12:46 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HotMessInTX
♀ New Member
Member # 42417
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, March 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shayna71 - I would like to believe I "got it" right away. It wasn't day 1 but within a day or two the gravity of what I've done hit and realized I wanted to do everything in my power to help my BH heal. I also realized I wanted to work hard at my marriage and be an active, loving participant in our relationship.

The thing is, it is not a natural thing for me at all. Detaching is easy for me, being present and vulnerable is not. I am in IC to learn and work on that part. Lots of work ahead but I'm all in and doing everything right that I can.

I would say to you to remain wary however, just because he is doing everything right doesn't mean everything is good and he is "cured". I am a master at acting how I know I should, it's part of this detaching ability I have. I know what I need to do, but I make myself think about it and be present in my actions. I want it to be authentic, not fall back on "faking" it.


DDay: 2/01/14

Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Texas
mswc101
♀ New Member
Member # 41895
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, March 9th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am looking for help with an uncooperative Wayward Spouse. he has admitted he has wronged but doesn't feel that he 'should have to ' disclose all information and answer my remaining q's (he only answered my reaction wtf q's a year ago now) and I am struggling with his lack of transparency and willingness to help me gain clarity. As well as a few more secrets that have popped up (deleted emails regarding password changes on porn accounts that have chat capabilities)Any advice would be appreciated :)

Posts: 8 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: darwin
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