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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, February 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

william - Is it "normal" to forget some of the more minor things when there are so many more major ones? Is IDK or I can't remember normal from a WS and if so ... is it genuine or just crap so they can hide behind it?

BrokenButTrying sorta nailed it down fairly well in his reply.

If you really want to dive into the whole issue of memory (which for me to determine my "why" was important)then may I suggest you check out the website at http://www.human-memory.net/index.html

And then, check out this website, cause as BrokenButTrying pointed out, sometimes forgetting isn't memory loss but rather, a continuation of deceit and lies. http://www.truthaboutdeception.com

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3265 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, February 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotMyLifeBck2013 - Question on Forgiveness. How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

It would be a fantastic gift if my BS offered forgiveness however, in truth, I don't expect to hear it from her. Its not a topic that we ever discussed but if reading between the lines and a gut feeling count, then I feel that as she continues to live with the fall out of the affair, she will always find it impossible to forgive me.

I know that she has never been able to reconcile my affair. Our marriage was solid and strong and then I threw it all away for some cheap validation from my AP ... the betrayal gnaws at her and while she may accept the new reality she lives in, I don't think forgiveness is on the agenda.

As I sit here thinking of how forgiveness would feel, I can feel some very strong emotions being stirred but ... I guess I have also come to accept that reconciliation does not require forgiveness to be offered. And more often than not, I can live with that. More often than not, I think that self-forgiveness is more important for the WS. And strangely enough, I haven't really found that either.

If I could find self-forgiveness, it could be that getting forgiveness from my BS would be less important and yet, conversely, I can see that being forgiven by my BS could also be the catalyst for self-healing.

So, yes, I guess I really do want and need her forgiveness, just not sure if I ever will hear it from her.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3265 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, February 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AML04 - do you think I should stop bringing her up (honestly I know at least part of my anger for OW is a deflection of my anger at WH but I'm not ready to let it go yet) or is it up to him to be able to separate that out?

As I read your post, I can only say, Thank God my AP lives in another country, far far away! Even as a WS, I can't imagine how awkward it must be for your H to continue working with the OW and more importantly, I can only imagine how painful it is for you.

That said, I guess I will take the easy way out and make the suggestion that your H could resign and find another job away from the OW. I know that at times in this job market, its easier said than done, but truthfully, I can't imagine not doing it. I would think that unless you are truly truly stuck int this situation, the fastest and easiest solution is to walk away from this job.

However, if that's not on the table, then both of you will have to take some steps to reduce the friction over this issue. Your H can takes some steps to make you feel safe, including talking to the HR dept at the firm to see how they can assist in limiting contact. He could make sure that you get access to his work computer for verification purposes. He could adopt a open door policy to ensure that he never gets behind closed doors with the AP. He can (and in fact, I did this for over a year) bring a personal laptop equipped with Skype to work and leave the unit in place and running so you get a video feed of his work place.

And yes, I think that you do need to stop or even reduce the frequency that you bring her up, especially if its being done in a very negative manner. If your anger is at your H, then direct it to him. While your husband needs to create indifference to the OW, at a certain level, so do you. Keeping hate and anger alive is time and energy wasted.

And yes, he also needs to get a thicker skin. He better come to terms with the fact that you will never see the AP in anything other than the most negative light. Your H might also be guilty of deflecting the hate which you feel to the AP as being hate directed at him too. Face it, if she was the evil slut from hell, what does that make him? Getting slammed even indirectly can hurt too. However, at one level, getting smacked for our affairs is just one of the consequences of the affair and like the saying goes, if you mess the bed, you have to lie in it.

Anyhow, as I said, quite honestly, I think that for my wife, continuing contact with the OW would have been a deal breaker from day one and so, again, I would still recommend quitting the job as being the easiest way to stop any contact.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3265 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, February 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you HUFI. I definitely believe him still working with her is keeping my anger/obsession at the forefront when I really need to let it go. She doesn't matter. It's just so hard!

He is looking for a new job but I don't see it happening right now. There are sacrifices we can make but schedule can't be one of them due to child care. He also carries the insurance.

I really do trust him not to start anything back up with her. I think her behavior after the A was outed really opened up his eyes to the kind of person she is and yes, I do agree he probably sees how it reflects poorly (understatement) on his choice to risk everything to be with her. My main hurt is that he has to still see her everyday even if there is NC (thankfully they don't have to work together directly) and it also hurts me that even indirectly she's still in his life.

Thank you again for your response!

[This message edited by AML04 at 3:35 PM, February 14th (Friday)]


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
T-13 M-9
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13.
Hopeful for R

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 1:50 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is there any real way to tell if its a real IDK or ICR versus its just rug sweeping?


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 543 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:41 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

William, I can't speak from personal experience because my A was very brief so I can remember and I haven't minimised anything. But I think a genuine IDK would be upsetting for a WS, they would want to be able to answer you because they acknowledge the pain you are in. Not being able to remember would be distressing for them.

If they are TT, rug sweeping or still lying there would be no real remorse, trying to shift your focus onto other things, not willing to talk about how not knowing the answers makes you feel.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:44 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question on Forgiveness. How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

It's not important to me. I don't need to be forgiven to stay in my M. I'm here no matter what.
I hope, for my BH's sake, he can get there so he can find some peace. The gift he gives himself, you know? But I don't expect it, I'm not asking for it.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you broken. that makes so much sense. bless you for answering!


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 543 | Registered: Jan 2014
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question on Forgiveness. How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

Not important at all.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2136 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotmylifeback2013 -

How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

Not important at all.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6095 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
SandAway
♀ Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, February 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

I agree, it isn't important to me either.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 435 | Registered: Dec 2012
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question on Forgiveness. How important is it to hear, and honestly know, your BS forgives you?

Doesn't matter to me for me, only matters in that I feel it would be an indicator that my BS is healing.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for WS in R - how would you feel now doing and saying the things you did and said while in the A - telling OP you loved him/her, lying to BS, etc. How would you feel today telling someone else you were in love with him/her? Do you think that is a sign that the love has returned for your BS?

How did you feel saying it during your A and then seeing your BS just minutes/hours later?


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
SusanR
♀ Member
Member # 29368
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel I have forgiven him but I'm not sure I will ever really trust him again. I don't know how I could be intimate with him when I don't trust him.

He keeps asking me what he can do to regain my trust and I just don't know. Anything work for your BS?

Am I being unfair to WH and myself by holding out hope for R?


Posts: 1931 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't need his forgiveness. I want it for HIM,not me.
Whoever said that self forgiveness is more important for the WS, probably true...
As a BS I hope for HIM to forgive himself more than I do for me to forgive him. I don't see forgiving him for his second affair. It's unforgivable.
Trust however, is alive and well! That has brought me peace.


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4923 | Registered: Dec 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SusanR,

You're a bit of an old timer here...so I'm not sure if you've heard this before or not, but if you don't trust him this far out, you have to take a closer look at things. Why don't you trust him? When did the A end? What is he doing to make you feel safe? What FOO issues might you have that are hindering your own healing?

I'll let you know...there are still things that happen that make my BW trigger, but it is a lot different than it ever used to be. She knows it, and I know it too, but sometimes we still have to talk it out.

So, what's going on? What is/isn't happening?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painfulpast,

Those are some tough questions...

Foolish...embarrassed. ..beyond idiotic. ..

What can any of us say about the things we said and thought we felt during the A? It was our own "truth" at that time, but any of us here, after some time and a shit load of work, are cringing at your questions and the feelings they bring up.

It wasn't real.

Real is what I experience with my wife everyday that I wake up, every time I come home, every time we clean the house, cook a meal, take a walk...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, February 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for WS in R - how would you feel now doing and saying the things you did and said while in the A - telling OP you loved him/her, lying to BS, etc.

Lying---I'd feel guilty and ashamed. Telling OP I loved him---about the same as I feel telling anyone I love them; fake and forced.

How would you feel today telling someone else you were in love with him/her?

I can't even imagine. I'm in a place now where I would never go there.

Do you think that is a sign that the love has returned for your BS?

No, I think it's a sign that I'm following my morals again.

How did you feel saying it during your A and then seeing your BS just minutes/hours later?

At the time: I felt annoyed, that I had to "keep up the faÁade" with XH when I felt it was AP I really would rather have been with full-time. I was not paying attention to right and wrong at the time.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2136 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0903 - i always enjoy reading your posts. they are thought provoking. You are a thoughtful person. But you have raised concern for me. If this is too personal, please don't respond.

It appears to me that you have done your work for yourself. And I agree that is what needs to be done. But it also seems that you don't really hold your XH with much affection. You seem very dispassionate with regard to him as if his feelings and your feelings toward him are not really the point.

about the same as I feel telling anyone I love them; fake and forced.

does this include your XH?

I only ask this because I hope that in the end my WW does not come to the conclusion that she wants to stay with me because it's easier, or the right thing, or because it's an election she has chosen or it's because of an obligation she owes me.

Is this the endpoint that we reach after the work?

Again, I'm sorry if this is too personal.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
spartanburg65
♂ New Member
Member # 42488
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First post: My WW and I started reconciliation from the moment I confronted her. We started MC the next morning and are going weekly with some IC too. I want to know when the PA started and all I get is a little before Halloween. To the WWs, do you think it is possible for her not to remember? (as a disclaimer when we joined Facebook, she put our anniversary as the wrong date.)

[This message edited by spartanburg65 at 10:54 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)]


BH 34 WW 33
DSs 4, 2
Dday 1/14/14
Confrontation 1/27/14
No Contact 2/2/14
TT over (I really believe) 2/26/14
9 month PA
Reconciling

Posts: 12 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Carolinas
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