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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how does a BS get to have what they want (an M without adultery) with their WS?

It's the only reason why we're doing what we're doing. It wouldn't work for everyone, obviously---the fact that we don't have kids, for example, is huge---but it's the only way my XH could have had a relationship with me ever again.

It took us two years (post-divorce) to even get to a place of dating again. Luckily, my XH still wanted me. Luckily, I still wanted him. Now we're talking remarriage and when that happens, we will have our M without adultery.

The past is still the past, though. I still cheated on him. In every case, it can't be erased.

As others have said, you either find a way to live with it while staying married or you don't. Either choice is perfectly valid.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2077 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, I think that is one of the biggest problems I face. I DO define my wife by her actions immediately before, during and after the affair. An affair and 4 years of deceit aren't something I can whistle away. I don't want an "insta-cure" I want the feelings I had for her, back. She not only betrayed me, she stole my love and flushed it down the toilet, then let me believe that she was still the same woman I married. How am I supposed to give her the opportunity to change after that kind of deceit? In your case, your BS knew about your cheating, right? So , in fact, you did try to prove to your husband that he was who you wanted and desired, right? That is what I want, also. But , the opportunity isn't open ended.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I still have a problem with the idea that your issues are more important than your BS's needs. Isn't that selfish? And isn't selfishness the cause of most affairs? I understand that if you are a better person, you will gain by it. But it still seems to me as if your husband is simply a positive by-product of your work, instead of the focus of it. Both you and Unexpected talk of doing the work for yourselves. I never hear that you are doing the work for BOTH and your spouse. Why is that? It sounds as if your husband's love is farther down the list, and that is my sticking point, I will be my wife's first priority or I will not be married to her. Her cheating forced this, not anything I have done or not done. I always put her first, because I loved her. Now, if we are to stay married, I expect reciprocity.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I DO define my wife by her actions immediately before, during and after the affair.
Understandable. So did QS at first. He saw me as a cheating slut. But he also saw my horror at my actions and that I was willing to do what it took to heal us, he knew I had potential if I would apply myself. He gave it time. He sat back and watched me to see what I would do. I busted butt.

An affair and 4 years of deceit aren't something I can whistle away.
We didn't whistle it away either. It was a time thing for us. It's a time thing for any R'ing couple.

I don't want an "insta-cure" I want the feelings I had for her, back.
That depends on your ability to accept her A. Which you may or may not be able to do. Also depends on her willingness to help you heal and work on herself. Even still, there will be a sense of awareness. QS adores me, feels safe with me, and is proud of how far I've come. It is what it is. He has reached a level of acceptance and even forgiveness.

In your case, your BS knew about your cheating, right?
The first three As were major red flags to him. He knew I was crossing a line. We didn't know they were considered EAs till we found SI. A4, he had absolutely no clue what was going down or how involved I was. It blindsided him when I confessed.

So , in fact, you did try to prove to your husband that he was who you wanted and desired, right?
Not till after Dday. Which is what your wife is doing to right? Hasn't she gone "above and beyond" to try to help you?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, she has. It is the only thing that keeps us together, right now. She told me that even if I divorce her, she will never stop trying to win me back, or to prove that her love and desire are for me alone. I get so sad, sometimes. I want to believe her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I still have a problem with the idea that your issues are more important than your BS's needs.
Never, ever have I said that. Bdell, this is not an either/or thing. You're trying to make it.

I did a million and one things to help my husband heal. I already told you everything I did. Not going thru it again.

I fixed myself, and did what I could to help him. This was not an either/or thing. They went hand in hand.

Both you and Unexpected talk of doing the work for yourselves. I never hear that you are doing the work for BOTH and your spouse.
Then you need to go back in read my posts again. I did do the work for myself. Like I said, I let go of the outcome of my marriage. In my heart, I wanted R. He chose to R. Every day he let me stay, I stayed and worked on me and us.

There is no WS on the planet that can wave a magic wand and heal their BS. There is three things that heal in a marriage. WS, BS, the marriage. The WS is responsible for themselves and half the marriage. The BS ultimately has to fix themselves. Sure the WS can aid in that process, but the ultimate decision is up to the BS. That's where the term, "Biting off a piece and swallowing the crap sandwich" comes from.

Yes, fixing myself was also a sacrifice of love and dedication to my husband. I didn't do it however, to manipulate the results. I did it for me, I did it for him, I did it for us. Again, they all go hand in hand.

It sounds as if your husband's love is farther down the list,
Not in the least. You're missing the point entirely. Ask QS if my fixing myself ever made him feel neglected. Ask any BS here if their WS working on themselves was "selfish" and "unloving".

It's ultimately paramount.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
loba1957
♂ New Member
Member # 41281
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm looking for feedback from WS's or anyone really.
During my wife's A she sent a lot of pics to her AP. She always edited them to remove freckles, stretch marks, any feature that she did not like about herself. What I find hard to understand is why she would do this especially since they had sex over a 6 month period so it's not like he never saw her without clothes.

Posts: 22 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Az
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, you sound like my wife's new IC. LOL I swear that every day I wake up, I have a different outlook. Today was particularly depressing. How does QS handle it? Or how did he handle it when it was fresh?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Both you and Unexpected talk of doing the work for yourselves. I never hear that you are doing the work for BOTH and your spouse.

I have to do it for myself first and foremost. Otherwise, it won't stick and I would get resentful. It's like my diet analogy that I used earlier.

I will be my wife's first priority or I will not be married to her.

I always put her first, because I loved her

Very interesting. I never wanted to be first. I don't want anyone to put me first. And I do not put anyone else first. The self should be first.

And you are confounding putting oneself first with selfishness. I had the A because I no longer cared about myself.

But it always comes down to you. If you want a wife who puts you first, then you deserve to have a wife who puts you first. And if your wife's affair broke everything, it is your prerogative to decide that.

You have to do what works for you.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6073 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess that's just the way of it, Unexpectedsong. We each must do what we feel is right. I never once doubted my wife's love and that I was first in her heart, until December, that is. Now I doubt every word she says.

[This message edited by Bdell at 10:42 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I swear that every day I wake up, I have a different outlook.
That is completely normal. (Believe it or not) That is why it's always advised for BS to not make any sudden decisions. Wait. See. Give it time.

In a moment of rage, you'll growl, "Fuck it, I'm done!" Ten minutes later, you're a puddle in the floor, crying for her to love you forever. That is why they call this the roller coaster. It's literally a moment by moment process.

How does QS handle it?
Now? It happened, it sucked, it's part of our history, what we have now is beautiful and worth staying for.

Or how did he handle it when it was fresh?
With trepidation. A sliver hope. But there was great fear. He waited to see if this was my rock bottom. Waited to see what I did. There was aloooooot of "faking it till he made it" going on. See, he's introverted. He would open up a tiiiiiny bit, but that was it. I had no idea what was going thru his mind. He internalized his rage. He didn't show me his plain of lethal flatness. He didn't show me his disgust. He faked his way thru for a long time. He said he wanted R, but his heart was not in it for many months. Again, a time thing.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you handle it now? Are you sure of yourself enough to be "affair proof? ( to use the Harley's term)

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me ask one final question to all WS's. Are you in love with your BS's, now? And I mean the head over heels kind of romantic love?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell: Yes. We're like a Bonzai tree. My affair splintered, pruned and damaged a big part of us. But we have NEW growth that is, oddly, in some ways BETTER than before. Somehow MORE intimate, trusting, communicative, and savory. Sex is sexier. Fun is funner.

Like we were tested, trial by fire, and emerged together, with a knew knowledge of US, and what we're made of.

Is it a 24/7 bowl of cherries? No. Is it exciting? YES.

We are soulmates. Till death do us part. I fucked that up once. Never again...


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you handle it now? Are you sure of yourself enough to be "affair proof?
I value myself much more. I do not define myself by how people see, accept, or reject me. I am comfortable in who I am. Where I am uncomfortable, I do not seek out outside ego strokes. I am worth much more than the crappy ego kibbles offered to me by a married man. I am worth more than sacrificing my self respect and honor. I will not disrespect myself and (in ripple effect) my husband like this again.

Are you in love with your BS's, now? And I mean the head over heels kind of romantic love?
Gonna throw you for a loop here, but I never stopped loving QS. I loved him to the best of my ability at that time in my life. It was an unhealthy, warped love, but it's all I knew at the time. Now I know better. And so I do better.

My love now is much more grounded, mature. My love is more healthy. I love him in the Cinderella/Prince Charming, head over heels, fireworks, flowers, and fancy Hallmark cards way. I love him in the, "I'll help you bathe and clean up your vomit when you're sick", wash your laundry, cook your dinner, every day love kind of way.

Love is a package deal. Sure, romance is all well and good. But life isn't a fantasy or a fairy tale. You also need the non-butterfly, stable love. The love that flays open your heart and shows the good, the bad, the ugly, and walks hand in hand thru another day.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, Aubrie, I do hope it works out the way you have it planned, and I'm glad that you are a better person. But for me, the marriage is tainted beyond repair, and I think I will do the divorce in any case. Perhaps she can win me back, but I think that if we tried to repair this one, , there would still be the stench of adultery about this marriage, that I wouldn't want to live with or have her live with. I wonder how many WS's have divorced and won back their BS's? To me, that would be a much more profound expression of love and desire than anything she could ever do within the present marriage. what do you think< WS's?

[This message edited by Bdell at 8:16 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you have a history of sabotaging your relationships, unconsciously or consciously, prior to your affair? And if so, do you (now) know why?

Thanks!


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1916 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
chetristezza
♀ New Member
Member # 42233
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I have to do it for myself first and foremost"

Wow! This is awesome and so resonated with me!!!!!! THAT'S what I need to see for even a hope!!! Looking within rather than clinging on to me. How long did it take you to get there? It's not the act/acts/actions that horrify me. It's the part that drove or ok'd them. I'm realistic and self aware enough to know I'm capable are shit that is unhealthy too. I constantly take stock. That's what your statement said to me. I want him to get there himself, though.


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2014
chetristezza
♀ New Member
Member # 42233
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another WOW bdell, that's so much how I feel but I really like what Unexpected song (really cool name) said. If the spouse wasn't even the focus but the actions they did.

US, was this something your spouse guided or was this a self realization?


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2014
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS

What can I do for my WH? 4 months post DDay, yes I'm still a mess but we are working on reconciliation and it is going frighteningly well. I always thought the world of my H. I mean that. To me I won the husband lottery. I never thought he was perfect...just nearly.

We are in MC (and were during the 3 month affair) and he is in IC. I DO believe that the root of this A was his lack of self esteem. It wasn't me, it wasn't the OW. It wasn't the marriage. It was HIM. All the time I felt so lucky to have him (and he made me feel the same) he says he felt like I didn't respect him, didn't value his opinion, felt like he was less than me, thought I married "down"...etc. WTH?! Nothing could be further than the truth and even in the face of things that prove it, he just doesn't' believe it. I am fully convinced it is because his self esteem is so low he doesn't believe he deserves it. No one who knows him would have thought he had an esteem issue.

I do NOT forgive him yet for what he has done. I can't trust him yet. I'm still incredibly hurt and fragile, but that doesn't mean I don't want to help him...for him, and for US. I have written him letters that go over all the things in our marriage that he has done as a husband and a father to be proud of. I've told him time and again, that I don't believe the A has to define him. I have told him that while this situation has hurt our children (17 and 19) that he can use it to show them about redemption, remorse, and forgiveness. I even told him that even though I really did think of him as near perfect I don't expect him to be. I know he will be irritated, lazy, selfish, impatient, etc, just like all of us, because I don't want him to feel like he has to be perfect and can't.

WHAT can I do to help him. Yes, I want this for him, no matter what happens with us, but I also worry that if he doesn't fix it, something like this will happen again and the damage to EVERYONE will be SO much worse.


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
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