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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, January 18th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell,

During my affair, loving the AP and loving my XH were not mutually exclusive. I loved the AP when we dated, before I ever met my XH. When we had the A, I justified saying "I love you" to the AP by figuring that it had just never stopped.

I now know that I was not *acting* lovingly toward either man ("love as an action/verb" vs "love as a feeling"). Just because I felt it doesn't mean it justified having an A, and doesn't mean that it meant there were loving committed actions to back it up---there weren't.

As for whether it was forgivable: eventually it was for my XH, because we are R'ing. It wasn't the dealbreaker when we divorced---it was one of many. He simply didn't want to be married to me anymore if I loved someone else, and I can't say I blamed him. I sure wouldn't have wanted it, if the shoe were on the other foot. Does it mean anything when I say it to XH, after having said it to AP? I don't know. I want a relationship with him for a variety of reasons. I don't really care about "love" as one of them, anymore.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 10:58 PM, January 18th (Saturday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, January 18th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know. I want a relationship with him for a variety of reasons. I don't really care about "love" as one of them, anymore.

I think that's a very interesting statement 0903. I think it is very mature and logical. I hope, in your case, it doesn't mean there is no passion.

what is love? It's easy to say, very hard to define. To my knowledge, the closest, non-emotional, definition is simply wanting someone to be in your life. Allowing someone to be with you.

so your statement is simply, you want him in your life. you have forsaken others for that position. I think you are correct. but as i said before, i hope you still enjoy his company and feel passion from time to time.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 516 | Registered: Mar 2013
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, January 19th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can someone explain why a wayward who seemed to despise cheating when it happened to close family members - including to a brother and supposedly to his own mother - can carry on an A, leave his spouse and children, and act like its no big deal without even so much as a sorry? I don't get that. I could see if infidelity was part of his family's past and it was looked upon in the same way - as something that happens and something that people just "get over" - but I don't get it at all if it was something so evil and horrible when it happened before. Is there a difference in their minds? What's the justification there or do they not even bother to justify, but simply ignore?


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2707 | Registered: Jan 2011
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, January 19th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Suckstobeme - I come from a home broken by infidelity. My mother had an affair when I was young. Being the eldest of my siblings, I would sit at the top of the stairs and listen to my parents arguing, I knew exactly what was going on and it affected me deeply for a long time.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of my parent's marriage problems but my mum has been with her AP for twenty years now. I believe her A is what's called an exit A. My now step father has brought great happiness to our lives and I am happy to have three parents, although I was angry for most of my teenage years about how my mother conducted herself during her marriage breakdown.

I had a very brief A at the lowest point of my life. There is no excuse for it but in all honesty, the pain I felt as a child didn't even cross my mind. I was bound up in a bubble of selfishness, all I could think about were my own needs.
I am no longer in that bubble though and I am deeply sorry for my actions and the pain I have caused my family.

I am so sorry you find yourself in this situatuon, I can only imagine the pain you are going through. I hope your WS will show remorse in time.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1209 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, January 19th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7,

Yes, you get it. And yes, we enjoy each others' company very much.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, Mike. Is being comfortable and "enjoying each other's company" the best I have to look forward to? If so, I would divorce tommorrow. Without romantic love, a marriage is a simple business arrangement. I do NOT want that. This really depresses me. If I cannot regain the passionate, consuming love for my wife, I might as well D and try again with somebody else, without the affair baggage. Huge Bummer.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If being mature and logical means I can't be in love with all of it's emotional fire and brimstone, then I don't ever want to be mature and logical.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:52 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you're saying that if certain things don't occur you don't want her in your life. that doesn't contradict what I said. for you, love means the romance, passion, and companionship, etc. Not everyone needs all those things. you aren't wrong, but neither are they.

and you have to understand, I was giving an off the cuff clinical definition. Not everyone likes that.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 516 | Registered: Mar 2013
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Red  Posted: 6:47 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7 and bdell,

This forum is for BSs to ask questions of waywards and for waywards to answer. Please do not engage in a back and forth dialogue in here. Thank you.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 36651 | Registered: Sep 2007
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are right, so here are my new questions. What have you done, as WS's , to reclaim the love and desire that your affair damaged? How can you, after sleeping with another person, prove that you have any desire for your spouse , that you desire them above the AP, and be believed? And We are talking sex here, not relationship.

[This message edited by Bdell at 9:32 AM, January 20th (Monday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would appreciate any feedback to help me understand the mindset that allows an affair to continue for YEARS without any claims of an emotional attachment.

Women in LTAs appear to have had emotional reasons for their As, and I can certainly get that. In my WH's case, he says it was almost purely sexual. What is even more confusing is that he is a very intelligent man who says he never allowed himself to acknowledge how is A was impacting our M or how it caused him to become distant and withdrawn.

Of course, consequences were never considered.

On dday, MOW was thrown under the bus with little consideration for her well being, and seemingly without any sense of loss or missing her in any way.

It seems quite cruel. I am the only one who seems to have any compassion for her.

How can this be? Their relationship lasted for so long. How can he just put her out of her mind.

We recently had a conversation and WH told me that due to costly errors she had made at work, he had considered firing her. I asked how he could have done that while they were in a relationship. What would that mean as far as losing her as a sexual partner?

He said that wouldn't have bothered him. he did say though, that he would not have been the one to do the firing so perhaps they could have continued the A outside of the office.

Just seems rather callous to me.

Can anyone here relate to this?


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 724 | Registered: Feb 2012
Prayingforhope
♂ Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi fightingback, I was in a 6yr LTA and can offer you one point of view on this. The OW in the A was not the point...in fact, after 3 intense months of IC I can tell you instead of "other woman" I might as well say "any woman" because that is about what the relationship meant to me on an emotional level.

Let me explain. I have emotional problems that I have never dealt with stemming from my childhood, but expanding well into teens. Emotional abuse, physical abuse, alcoholic parents, etc. Having never dealt with my trauma, I have instead created a long list of emotional defensives in life that I use to feel 'normal'. Booze, working 12 hours a day, the A, porn, etc. you name it and I was hiding behind it.

The fact my A went on for so long has nothing to do with an emotional connection to the OW. I didn't care about her any more that I had an emotional connection with the bottle of wine I was drinking on a daily basis and reflect on your question with the same sort of puzzlement, like "huh? why would you think I would be emotionally connected to the OW. What a strange thing to ask???"

This is all about using any and all external elements to hide from my real feelings and to NEVER face my fears. The A went on for so long because it worked in that regard and put a very low requirement on me to give anything back (it was on out of town thing that would come and go with travel) - real emotions were not required.

I hope it helps...


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Prayingforhope,

Thank you. Yes, it does help.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 724 | Registered: Feb 2012
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my questions were too hard.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Red  Posted: 2:57 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell, the WSs aren't obligated to answer questions in here. As a matter of fact, it's very kind of them to take the time when they are dealing with their own stuff. Furthermore, some questions can only be answered by *your* WS and maybe your questions aren't "hard" but too personal. Please consider other people's feelings.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 36651 | Registered: Sep 2007
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell,

I've actually been thinking about your new set of questions all day and formulating my response in my mind. However, I am at work. I am unable to reply to questions/posts that entail long and detailed replies while I am working because I only have access to SI on my cell phone during the work day.

Thank you for your patience.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell,

First I'd like to say that Authenticnow gave you great advice when she said that the answers to these questions are really only important to you and your R as coming from your WS. However, in the spirit of providing outside perspective, these are my thoughts:

What have you done, as WS's , to reclaim the love and desire that your affair damaged?

I'm not sure if you mean reclaim it from my XBH or reclaim it for my XBH. I'll answer both ways. From him: nothing in particular. If he loves and desires me by me being myself? Wonderful. If he doesn't? He's in the wrong relationship then. Seriously, making a play for a man to "make" him love and desire me is a.) for me, wayward behavior (even if it's with my x-spouse) and b.) beginning-of-a-new-relationship behavior, which for us was 7 1/2 years ago. As for reclaiming it FOR him: I work every day at loving him. We have some issues that we're constantly trying to work through; personality conflicts that cause some problems. In some ways, we are not right for each other. In other ways, we are. As I've posted elsewhere before, I have determined that, for me, the ways we ARE right for each other overrule the ways we are not. As such, I work every day to love him by actions and show him the feelings of deep affection, friendship, caring, and concern that I define as "love."

How can you, after sleeping with another person, prove that you have ***any*** desire for your spouse,

I emphasized the word "any" to focus on it here as I broke your question into parts. I don't think having had desire for the AP during, and, yes, before my A means I didn't have any desire for my spouse...any more than having desire for my spouse means I was unable to have desire for the AP. Yes, obviously the fact that I was married and had vowed to "forsake all others" meant I wasn't *supposed* to have that desire---or at least act on it---that I was grievously wrong and immoral to have acted on it or given it any further thought beyond the passing---but I certainly don't believe that, simply biologically speaking, having those desires for more than one person is impossible.

that you desire them above the AP, and be believed?

Because we were completely apart for the first 2 years we were divorced, we were never at a point in our reconciliation where I was concerned with whether or not I was believed---and especially with regard to the point above.

And We are talking sex here, not relationship.

I just wanted to add something here about this. Sex used to be very important to me. I put a very high value on it, for reasons both healthy and unhealthy. However, it is no longer of much importance. I understand that for many if not most couples, a satisfying sex life continues to be a priority. To each his/her own. For me, it currently is not. Luckily, I have an understanding and seemingly like-minded partner.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 8:48 PM, January 20th (Monday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
DazedWI
♂ Member
Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB,

Who initiated the R in your relationship and what caused that to happen? My WW had said previously that maybe we could be friends in a couple of years and I said no because it would mess with my recovery as she would have tried to change back to the person I fell in love with. I guess to me it seems unlikely that a couple could R after a divorce given what transpired. Thanks again for responding, it is appreciated! Having the ability to have WS's answer questions helps to try and help a BS when the other is unremorseful.


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
whereismylove
♀ Member
Member # 41794
Default  Posted: 2:03 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey there WS, thanks so much for answering Q's my WH doesn't answer much so... here is a little backround for the question: also, keep in mind I was a good wife who just adored him (even though he became more and more of a jerk since turning 40 )and he knew i adored him. O.K. My WH kept seeing OW after I found out. when I found out he was still seeing her(finding him at her house on his b day nite) I was destroyed!! But, instead of seeing my pain and doing anything right, he took this "time apart" to go immediately back to her house and spend the next three days and nights with her,having a sex marathon & "playing house" as she said. (I saw these facts recently in some texts he had written down to save for his memories before deleting them ) he is so awful (angry, talks hateful) to me and does nothing he could be doing like kind words or remorse or transparency (still has cell phone locked and yelled at me one night when I questioned him about not being where he said he was and asked me if I was done being crazy and done stalking him, then turned his phone off for the night saying he would call me when he was ready. Not only did I read in texts that he loved her but he told me as much when I asked . also, I gathered that she was keeping him wanting and pining and he missed her and all that crap . Well, she moved, otherwise he would still be with her and I wonder if she would have asked, if he would have left me for her. Anyway my question is..all his asshole ways towards me and all his love and time towards her during the affair and now she is gone and he is still a jerk. even though he says he loves me I think he doesn't. what should I think? I just love him so much but he isn't himself anymore he hasn't been for awhile, even before the affair. Now he is a stranger. Is he just settling for me because she "maybe used" him (his words), and now she is gone. Is it possible he loves me. is he in the fog and someday do right by me or has he just lost his mind? I feel like its obvious he doesn't really love me anymore but that's sad to admit. but if ya'll think that's the case, tell me I need honesty not kid gloves, but gentle honesty as I am an emotionally abused wifey.

[This message edited by whereismylove at 2:19 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


DDay: nov.6th, dec 24, dec.27(2013) Jan 10th(2014)..continuing ddays with discovery of occasional texting.
Me : BS 7yrs. younger. awesome doting wife & stay @home mom . going back to school.
Him: WS, EU spouse. 6+ months long "accidental"

Posts: 65 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Northern California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:14 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Authenticnow, I was just wondering why my questions had not been answered. Never meant to be inconsiderate, at all. Sorry if you took it that way. I will try to do a better job of explaining myself, in the future.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
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