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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbrokem0903, after reading through the IC's note of my wife's sessions with her. I am confused by a couple of things. Maybe you and the other FWW's can help. She told the IC that the sex was not very good, but, at first , it was exciting. After they had "done it", the guilt was far worse that the excitement of the act , itself, so she always tried to postpone or beg off of doing it unless the OM insisted. And that these guilt feelings increased and eventually made it impossible for her to have any further sex with him. (according to her timeline and the IC notes, they had full-on sex less than 10-11 times over 2 long weekends). She said that the emotional and social aspects of the affair were far more important than the sex act, itself. In fact, she says several times that the "fun" of the affair was before and after sex. she says that he was charming, and funny (she mentions funny a lot) and for a few hours she would forget her troubles.
I have no reason to think that this is anything other than the truth, because I was never meant to see these notes, and some of them are from right after the affair ended. Plus they are similar to the timeline that she gave me. So my questions are 1.Do many WS's have affairs for other reasons besides sex? 2. Is this escape from reality common in affairs? 3. How is it that a normal, confident , intelligent woman can be so shallow and clueless.?

[This message edited by Bdell at 9:23 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell:

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) She's human, and she made a mistake.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
DazedWI
♂ Member
Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am still going through the pages here but thought I would add some that I have had, sorry if there are any repeats.

1. What made my WW want someone that is the same age as her dad? The OM is not attractive, is old and grey but is a plastic surgeon and a bachelor his entire life.

2. Why would she do something like this when we had everything going for us in our lives. I know I shouldn't ask why questions as there is no real answer but figured someone might be able to add some insight.

3. What makes someone unremorseful and little contact after I caught her at the OM's home? I am doing the 180 but just surprised she hasn't reached out to me. I asked her to choose me after I first discovered her and fight for us but she chose him.

4. I moved out the weekend after finding out saying that I would be back 2-3 times a week so we could work out what happened. When I showed up on Wednesday (found her on a Friday) all of her stuff was gone and she didn't tell me, even though we had spoken on Monday?

5. She had initially agreed to do NC, full disclosure and answer questions (though she argued why would I need to know every detail) and also write a love letter to me but did none. This was in the same time prior to the Wednesday no show.

6. She cried every time as we spoke the following week before I did no contact until she saw me as her husband and not OM. She said it was so I knew I wasn't the only one going through this but she chose this path. At our temporary order hearing she actually started yelling at me prior, I was calm and kept asking why she was so angry and this is what she wanted, moving on/etc.

I appreciate any thoughts that the WS's can shed on these questions as they continue to bug me.


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell

1.Do many WS's have affairs for other reasons besides sex? 2. Is this escape from reality common in affairs? 3. How is it that a normal, confident , intelligent woman can be so shallow and clueless.?

1.) From what I've read here at SI, yes. Sex was an important component of my A with the AP; he was my ex and we had been extremely sexually compatible during our legitimate relationship. I was still attracted to him when we had our A. However, in my nearly 4 years on SI I've read of many situations where the WS did not enjoy, or was even disgusted by the sex with the AP, but was using it as a means to different ends. Also, several WSs have EAs with no sex involved, so they must have been in it for some other reason.

2.) I would assume so. Again, I can't answer from personal experience as I had my A precisely to forge a new reality---a renewed legitimate relationship---with AP, although obviously I went about it in a deceitful and immoral way given that I was, duh, still married at the time. But from my time on SI I would say it is common that the WS cheats to avoid the reality of their home life.

3.) The internal problems that lead to affairs often have nothing to do with one's intelligence or confidence or outwardly-portrayed "normalcy." I am very book-smart. Yet I was very stupid to have had an affair. To others, I looked and acted normal. Again, inside, I was far from it. Confidence? Never had that until recently, but I know with some WSs their confidence is a mask.


DazedWI

1. What made my WW want someone that is the same age as her dad? The OM is not attractive, is old and grey but is a plastic surgeon and a bachelor his entire life.

What made Catherine Zeta-Jones want Michael Douglas???? Can't be money; she has plenty of her own. And I'd definitely call him not attractive and old & grey. Some people are attracted to other people outside a typical age range (and sometimes even outside their generation). I had the biggest crush on Harrison Ford for the majority of my life, and he was indeed born the same year as my father. I'm not trying to be flip, but sometimes there's no explaining it.

2. Why would she do something like this when we had everything going for us in our lives. I know I shouldn't ask why questions as there is no real answer but figured someone might be able to add some insight.

There really is no "real" answer. I was in the same position. We were months away from trying to conceive a child, something I'd badly wanted for years. And yet I cheated instead. I think the answer is almost always that, at the point of having an affair, no matter where a WS is in their lives or how good things are, selfishness and entitlement completely take over.

3. What makes someone unremorseful and little contact after I caught her at the OM's home? I am doing the 180 but just surprised she hasn't reached out to me. I asked her to choose me after I first discovered her and fight for us but she chose him.

Could be a number of things. My bet is that she had an inkling of how damn hard it would be to repair the damage she caused and simply wasn't up for the task. Other possibility could be that she would rather have tried a relationship with him rather than remain married. My bet is on the first possibility though.

4. I moved out the weekend after finding out saying that I would be back 2-3 times a week so we could work out what happened. When I showed up on Wednesday (found her on a Friday) all of her stuff was gone and she didn't tell me, even though we had spoken on Monday?

She took the coward's way out and snuck out like a thief in the night rather than woman up and leave straightforwardly. My guess is shame, embarrassment, and conflict avoidance.

5. She had initially agreed to do NC, full disclosure and answer questions (though she argued why would I need to know every detail) and also write a love letter to me but did none. This was in the same time prior to the Wednesday no show.

If she was planning on leaving on the sly, she probably agreed to your requests to placate you and buy time while having no real intention of following through.

6. She cried every time as we spoke the following week before I did no contact until she saw me as her husband and not OM. She said it was so I knew I wasn't the only one going through this but she chose this path. At our temporary order hearing she actually started yelling at me prior, I was calm and kept asking why she was so angry and this is what she wanted, moving on/etc.

Your calm probably got to her. This is a classic of this personality type (not sure what it is called)---they provoke (by yelling) and the calm response is not what they're expecting and it enrages them. She was just trying to get a reaction from you. Same with the crying, I'd bet---she was trying to elicit a different reaction, probably one of you trying to "comfort" her and make her not feel like the bad guy. <--- This is all completely armchair; I could be talking out of my you-know-what but it's what I think. I've seen it too many times from too many manipulators.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
DazedWI
♂ Member
Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB0903, thank you for answering. It is a different perspective hearing it from the WS side and I appreciate it.

Would you say the lack of conception as part of the reason? We too were also trying to conceive and even went to a fertility clinic 6 months prior to affair starting (assumed as I have no information from WW).

She has always taken the easy way out of things and it makes sense in what you said about her reaction. Many times she has said, "Maybe I am just not meant to be happy".

Another thing is that she hasn't told anyone about the divorce or why. She has told her family but that is it, our friends that we shared I informed. Why would she not say what happened if it is done? Her comment to me telling our friends was "If they don't want to be my friend anymore I will make new ones". I find this comical as she is very introverted and see it more as a knee jerk response to get a reaction out of me. Did any other WS's do this?

I also found a sheet of paper that had her name with his last name, did WS's every get this pulled in to the fantasy?

[This message edited by DazedWI at 8:17 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DazedWI,

No, we hadn't started trying to conceive yet. The timeline of everything is a long story to explain but we had not started at the time of my A. Never did start, in fact; I was caught and divorced (rightly so) before we got to that point.

"Maybe I am just not meant to be happy": regarding this, it sounds very victim-y to me. What people with that attitude don't understand (and I know this because I used to be one of them): life does not exist all around us, solely to "make" us happy. People who feel they aren't "meant" to be happy are, I suspect, not going out there and getting their happiness for themselves (in constructive ways, of course). They are busy looking all around them, waiting for some person or some set of circumstances to bring it to their doorstep. And when that doesn't happen, they whine that they're just not meant to be happy, it's just their lot in life, etc.

Re: not telling about the divorce: again, I would assume shame, embarrassment, and conflict avoidance---also not wanting to be seen as the bad guy or slutty or as selfish as she is. Basically to maintain her image.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 8:42 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Gman1
♂ Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you were attracted to an AP that was 'beneath' your normal standards (i.e. 'affaired down'), did you ever work out why you were attracted to that person...in IC, for example? I'm just curious because one of the things my wife has said she's struggling to understand about herself is why she went for someone who was so far below her normal standards for a significant other. I understand that, for sure, but I told her that's something she needs to work out with the IC. Just curious as to what others went through.

This question has already been asked but it is still very puzzling to me. My FWW is a beautiful woman with a master's degree and could get nearly any man she wanted. She had an EA which turned into a weekend A while out of town with a son of one of her father's friends. The OM was unattractive, not successful nor was he special or good in any way. My wife detests cigarettes and he even smoked which would normally be repulsive to her. He was rough around the edges and not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Before D-day, I saw his picture on FB and was relieved as I thought to myself "there is no way he is a threat!". There is no way my wife would be attracted to him. I had a suspicion that there was something wrong and my wife came to me sobbing two weeks later and admitted to the EA & A. How could WW's have an A with someone they wouldn't even give a second look to if they were single?


Posts: 83 | Registered: Oct 2013
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope I am doing this right....

First, My WS and I have read some posts on the WS forum and there is a reading/book that many WS recommend for the new WS to help them help the BS. Everyone says it is a short read? Now, of course, neither of us can find it in a darn post to find the name of it.

Can anyone give me the name? It would be much appreciated.

Secondly, I wanted to say thank you to all the WS that answer questions for the BS.

At first, since I am a BS and only at around 60 days since DDay, I was skeptical about the WS answering questions honestly. Now, I feel that reading your threads on here and your posts on your forum have helped me have a bit of hope and to find ways to help both of us cope during this crazy roller coaster we are on.

So, again, thank you.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

silentscream13...

aftertheaffair.net is highly recommended and is a short read. It's a very good eBook to help the WS cope with the fallout. If I'm not mistaken it was written by a WS, but don't quote me on that


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192062 | Registered: May 2002
silentscream13
♀ Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deeply Scared:

Thank you! I think that is it. We will check it out.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awesome...good luck!!


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192062 | Registered: May 2002
Camalus
♂ Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, I want to thank everyone on this thread. I have learned a lot by reading both the questions and the responses.

I have a couple of questions that may have been covered already but if so, I haven’t seen them.

My fWW’s affair lasted approximately three and a half years consisting of 2 years EA and 1.5 years PA. It ended in ’98 but I only found out this last July. She thought they were soul mates, star-crossed lovers, and in LUVVVV. The A ended when discovered by the other BS. We are both in IC and MC. Both ICs and our MC have told me fWW is highly unlikely to ever engage in another affair.

Thanks to IC and MC, and the passage of many years, fWW is very open to discussing any aspect of the A, the emotions involved, her mindset, and so on when I ask.

I asked her a couple of weeks ago how long after the A ended before she came out of the ‘fog’. After asking me a few questions to define ‘the fog’ she said roughly 14 to 18 months and, while she did feel some guilt, doesn’t think she was truly remorseful or comprehended what she had done while still in ‘the fog’.

My questions…Is 14 to 18 months of fog (after the A) typical? Is that period, after the affair but W still in the fog, as dangerous a period as I think may be? I feel if I’d discovered and confronted her while she was still in ‘the fog’ it would have ended our marriage.


Me–BS age 60
Her -- WS age 58
Married for 33 years
One child, 30yrs

I changed my username to Camalus...the Celtic God of War, Sky, and Retribution.
Camalus wore the horns for a brief period of time


Posts: 93 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
pastthelies
♀ New Member
Member # 39269
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still Standing and Camalus:

I don't think anyone has a normal time to come out of the fog (hopefully sooner than later) I think it depends on the person and the depth and length of the A. I was in a 5 year LTA and I have been NC for 10 months. I will NEVER contact him but I do think about him. How do you not think about someone you spoke to daily for five years? That takes time. Some days I miss him and others I have anger towards the lies and would love the opportunity to let him have it (but I won't. I have days I pray he is miserable (not very nice, but true).

Compared to the beginning I think about him much less and I have been trying to focus that wasted energy on my husband and family instead of someone who had a negative impact on my life and lied to me. That energy is much better spent improving the great life that i took for granted.


Posts: 46 | Registered: May 2013
kmom2662
♀ Member
Member # 41494
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Camalus--
I'm sure the fog is different for each person. In my case there wee two levels; on d-day, I confessed, but only partially. Truthfully, at least part of confessing was to just hurt H. As soon as I saw his reaction, it was like someone flipped a switch. It broke through my ability to compartmentalize and rationalize my actions. I have never felt that kind of guilt in my life.

The second level was a period of cravings, wanting to check on AP in some way. That lasted almost 3 months to the day; I have been free of it for the last week or so, finally. Peace came the day after my last bit of TT and the horrible day of hashing it out that followed. I don't know if my experience is typical or not.

[This message edited by kmom2662 at 9:48 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


Me-- WW, 49
Him-- BH, 53 (bobf)
Married 22 years
OEA, chat/email with multiple people over an 8 week period, 8/2013-10/4/2013
D-day 10/4/13
Working on reconciliation

Posts: 69 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: United states
DazedWI
♂ Member
Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can any other WS's provide some insight to the questions I had posted above? I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
Steppenwolf
♂ Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, January 10th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dazed,
I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't have too much to offer, but this is probably an answer:

She has always taken the easy way out of things

In her fogged in eyes, working on R is a lot harder than status quo. The sad fact is she probably has no clue what she is missing by running. She has a huge opportunity to work on her issues, better herself and your relationship. I hope she wakes up.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, January 11th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whenever I talk to WH about the A it seems like it just puts distance between us. Did you feel the need to detach after talking about the A? Is there a way to get my questions answered without pushing him away?


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
AndreaL
♀ Member
Member # 41522
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, January 11th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a quick question for WS..my husband keeps saying he wish he could undo what he has done and take it back. Did any of you feel that way? Really understand the consequences of your actions? Thanks for taking the time to respond.


Me:35
Hubby:38
Kids ages: 2 and 5
Married: 8 years
DDAY: Dec 1 2013
Affair: 2 months EA and PA
Status: Separted. Sigh...I wish I could forgive 😞

Posts: 154 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Canada
regret12
♀ New Member
Member # 41902
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, January 11th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gman1
I can relate to your WW to a degree. The OM for me was 15 yrs older, but well below my standards. My H is absolutely gorgeous, well built, intelligent, funny...all the things that this no self esteem gal feared would want to leave her some day. The OM was "wow'd" by me. I was 25 at the time. What 40 y/o wouldn't want to score with a cute 25 y/o!? And since my H was at the time being selfish in his sexual demands and appetite, I felt pretty low. That is no excuse. The OM made me feel like a goddess because I was far above his "pay grade". I know that sounds conceited, but my H at the time made me feel unsexy, prudish even. I didn't feel as self conscious around the OM because he was heavier, older and not very attractive. He wasn't a troll, he just wasn't the "model" that I always saw my H as and never felt I was worth. So the A made me feel sexy. The sex itself wasn't really exciting to me because of him, it wasn't him that I was wanting. It was the feeling of sexual superiority and power. In truth, I was turned on by my own newfound confidence. And I took that confidence and also started being more fun and flirtatious with my H. I had very strange "lines" I would draw in my head. For example, if I'd been with the OM then I would shower, wash thoroughly and even douche before I would ever be with my H again. I was never with them both in the same day. Yeah, I know give me an award for best wife, right? It's so very messed up, I see that...now. For me at the time, I was so angry with my H. I blamed him for my low self esteem. I hated him for wanting me to do things sexually with him (exhibitionism, pictures possibly with other guys in them and maybe even a threesome) and so instead of telling him off, leaving or demanding MC and IC, I went and "got him back" by having the A (how I saw it then). The OM just happened to be a new "friend" who liked to flirt. Really, at the time it could've been anyone. But he was completely nonthreatening physically. Yet strangely, we were polar opposites on politics, religion and many other issues that would be complete deal breakers if I were really dating. But our conversations could get heated and that was interesting too. My H and I are so much alike in just about every way (except certain sexual desires) that we rarely disagree.


Me: WW (PA for 2 1/2 mos. 2001) - DDay 12/8/13
Him: WH (multiple EAs throughout dating and marriage) and two revenge PAs - DDay 1: 1/27/14 DDay 2: 2/20/14
Together 22, married 14
No children

Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest US
kmom2662
♀ Member
Member # 41494
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, January 11th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Andrea--
Yes, I really realize how much damage I've done and would do anything to go back in time and undo it. I can't believe that I was able to act the way I did, and I'm miserable that both H and I will have to live with the memories.


Me-- WW, 49
Him-- BH, 53 (bobf)
Married 22 years
OEA, chat/email with multiple people over an 8 week period, 8/2013-10/4/2013
D-day 10/4/13
Working on reconciliation

Posts: 69 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: United states
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