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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
EvolvingSoul
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Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many of you had parents who cheated? If you had a wayward parent, do you think their behavior in any way set an example for you that such behavior was tolerable?

One of my parents is a wayward and yes it did have a big impact. The first time was when I was 13-14 years old and upon discovery they went the "spiritual bypass/move to a new town" direction. Basically it was rugswept. The second time about 10 years later. They went the "BS-parent nices WS-parent to stay in the relationship" route. Both times it was the BS-parent that did most of the changing. None of the changes were permanent and I think they still have the same issues they have always had.

I don't know if my view of infidelity being wrong but not mortally wounding came from their example but I do know I started wayward thinking and behaviors pretty early on. Understanding now what I do about the nature of infidelity, I see their relationship very differently and I feel bad for both of them as they have not really been able to have true intimacy for all of these years.

I have been very open with both parents about my infidelity and the damage I inflicted both on myself and my BS. My BS-parent seems to be relieved to hear someone talking about infidelity with empathy toward the BS and no blame shifting. My WS-parent wanted to blameshift my A almost immediately and it has taken a lot of effort to shut that down.


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 274 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I know it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but do you ever think about the sex you and the AP had? When you are making love to your BS? When you are alone? I don't know why I need to know this but I do. Be honest please!


Heartbrokeninaz,

Thankfully, I can say NO to your questions. But some WS's have shared with me that the mental pictures don't go away for quite some time....

And you're right, in the grand scheme of things, while focusing on recovery, it really doesn't matter.



WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
pointofnoreturn
♀ Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many of you had parents who cheated? If you had a wayward parent, do you think their behavior in any way set an example for you that such behavior was tolerable?

My mother was a WW. My dad went through two other marriages that ended because the wives cheated.

I don't think this made me think this behavior was "okay". I never liked what my mother did. I never liked the fact that as soon as I was able to settle down, the WW would uproot my life again.

If anything, it just makes me feel more ashamed of my actions. My dad was torn and betrayed not once, but thrice. If anyone should have known better, it should have been me.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 187 | Registered: Oct 2013
heartbrokeninaz
♀ Member
Member # 40779
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card: meaning that they still fantasize about the sex with the other person? Or they feel bad about it? Or both?


BW 40 (me)
WH 40
DDay 1 07/31/13 ONS with horseface
DDay 2 05/09/14 inappropriate texts
with another OW
One last shot

Posts: 193 | Registered: Sep 2013
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card: meaning that they still fantasize about the sex with the other person? Or they feel bad about it? Or both?

No, it's not fantasizing.
Yes, those I mentioned felt bad that the mental images still show up at times.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
tara1110
♀ Member
Member # 41202
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question may not be appropriate for this thread but any opinion is welcome. My husband is not remorseful and in fact he is already telling the world through FB that he loves his OW, posts pics of them, my son and our dogs. My question is, during the affair, has anyone ever thought that the OW can replace your BS?
Because that's how I feel right now... Discarded. I just feel so insulted and disrespected.


Me BS:34
H WS: 28
OW: 33 (butter face... Thanks to sistermilkshake for the nickname)
Dday: July 24, 2013 (5 days after our 5th wedding anniversary)
7yrs together, married for 5 yrs
Status: divorcing

Posts: 86 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: North Carolina
BeyondBrokenInTN
♀ Member
Member # 41507
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is TT?


Me: BGF 38F
Him: WBF 33M
Together for 5.9 years (4/5/08)
PA - Oct. 16, 17, 18, 2013 (business training out of state)
EA - Oct. 14 - Nov. 22, 2013 (same Woman)
D-DAY ~ Nov 22, 2013 (I found emails & confronted).
Working toward Reconciliation

Posts: 61 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Tennessee
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HeartBrokenInTN - TT stands for Trickle Truth, which is basically the slow letting out of details related to the A. Sometimes it comes years later.

Tara1110 - I think most WS are trying to replace their BS. Some don't really think of it that way, such as with compartmentalizing things so the BS literally is not a thought while with the AP. Sometimes it is pure selfishness and entitlement that the WS feels they can and should have both. But a lot of us were going for replacement of some sort. That's on the surface.

When you really dig down, what you will see is that the replacement isn't as big of a factor as the running from problems the WS doesn't want to deal with or is incapable of dealing with. But during the A, yes, it was a direct thought that AP would be the new spouse. Some WS's can begin to see the light fairly early and start realizing that the AP can't/won't replace the BS. Other WS's...well, they will never see the light and will continue to pursue the fantasy that allows them to never have to deal with their own problems.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why continue the lies?

I have already received a confession after WH was caught in a ONS with a prostitute. A forced confession, but a confession. Now other ONS with prostitutes have come to light, and even though I have some information about them, he refuses to be straight with me. Just denies it, wants me to produce my proof. Like he doesn't want to admit to anything he's not 100% sure I'm not already aware of.

I just don't understand what WS's hope to achieve by continuing the deception. Why not just lay it all out there so we can deal with it? Face the demon? Why does he want to continue to carry this around with him? Isn't it killing him inside?


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
EvolvingSoul
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Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why continue the lies?

I think a sustained practice of lying really does change your brain. I told many lies, big and little, and they mostly had in common two things.

1) Controlling outcomes by controlling information.

2) Bolstering how I am seen rather than how I actually am.

Having to admit to such a terrible failing as adultery pretty much violates both. Once the truth is admitted, the admissions cannot be undone and the consequences now seem beyond the liar's control. Additionally, the liar exposes themself to be even more of a liar by admitting that she has continued to lie. Often they think they would prefer to just live with the lie and "salvage" your perception of them rather than come clean and salvage their actual integrity.

Unless a liar can get to the point when integrity is more important than their perception of your perception of them, it's very hard to stop.

I know this isn't rational. A sustained practice of lying just changes your brain and it takes the sustained effort of repeated truth telling to make it better. That has been my experience, anyway.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 8:40 PM, December 30th (Monday)]


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 274 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, December 31st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your reply EvolvingSoul!

Even while his life is on the line. Hanging on to his 'perception' is more important than delivering the truth to save the M? But I guess if I understand right, he feels like continuing the lies in his mind, gives him a chance to salvage his reputation in it all?


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
Itsgoingtobeok
♂ Member
Member # 37664
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, December 31st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand now why WW does not want to tell the entire truth . The question I have is for those who told the entire truth did it help your BS heal ? Our mc and retroville has told me" stayed the course to forgive and focus on now not the past" .Also my WW wants me to share the blame for the A . That I wasn't treating her right . Is this a common practice of WW ?


BS-(52)
WS-49
married 28 yrs
Kid's -2
A- several
DD- 12-10-12
Starting recovery

"I don't understand the world today I don't understand what she needs I gave her everything she threw it all away" tom petty


Posts: 215 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Los Angeles
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, December 31st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you WSs ever bring your AP to your home and have sex with them on the marital bed?

My fWW is adamant she never did that, but I have my doubts now, stemming from some information that just came to light.

If you did do this, how did you reconcile bringing an interloper into the bed where you and your spouse slept, made love, made your children, etc? To me it is the ultimate form of disrespect towards a spouse and displays a subliminal hatred towards the one you swore to love for life. How did you explain this or rationalize this act to your BS?

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 2:00 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, December 31st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The question I have is for those who told the entire truth did it help your BS heal ?

I've told the truth about everything he has asked me, but...he hasn't asked much. He learned so much on his own, plus the re-hashing of it all upset him further (even years out, when we got back together) so we've had very little dialogue about the events of my infidelity. Time and distance helped him heal the most. That, and my taking complete responsibility for what I did and never blaming him or minimizing my actions. That's not to say telling the truth hurt...if I'd continued to lie I'm sure we wouldn't be in the place we are now because he probably wouldn't have eventually been interested in R.

Our mc and retroville has told me" stayed the course to forgive and focus on now not the past"

The line about forgiving and focusing on now not the past is something my XH has wholly embraced. But from what I have read on this site, he is uncommon. My opinion is that you need to focus on "the past" for as long as YOU need to. Don't let your wife, your friends, a counselor, [whomever] push you toward "forgiveness" or even acceptance until you are ready. This is YOUR journey and you need to walk it at YOUR pace.

Also my WW wants me to share the blame for the A . That I wasn't treating her right . Is this a common practice of WW ?

I have no idea if it's common; I know it wasn't the case for me. I have many faults and I am far from the poster girl for the Remorseful WS, yet one thing I can say is that I never blamed my XH---I never even thought it. Your wife is full of shit. There is never a viable excuse or justification for cheating, no matter what.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2089 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
3Xthefool
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Member # 40113
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, December 31st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to ask any WW out there: Do you remember essential details about the affair or is forgetfulness the rule instead of the exception?

The reason I ask is because my wife has been unable (or unwilling) to provide me with a specific date of when was the very first time she had sex with her first of 5 APs.

I find it hard to believe that a devout Christian woman would forget the day of her first sexual affair encounter. she somehow remembers some of the details of the encounter but is unable to provide me with a date (she provides a "ballpark" range but has not given me a specific date) unfortunately, the range falls within a few weeks before and after my birthday so my gut tells me that her first time was on my birthday and she is afraid that telling me that would reveal her utter disrespect for me and would be a deal breaker for us staying together.

Also, I have previously found pictures on her phone of a ring sitting on a purchase invoice and another with the ring on the most recent APs ring finger. She denies ever buying AP any specific gift whether expensive or sentimental.

So to repeat my question: is it commonplace for WWs to forget these things? or would I be a fool to believe she doesn't remember them? what is your opinion on the specific examples that I gave?


Posts: 59 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New York City
lovehonorcherish
♀ Member
Member # 41843
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 1st (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it seems like folks are asking lots of questions so here it goes: If a WS is involved with a married OW does it not occur to him that OW is cheating on her husband? And if the OW is cheating on her husband does it not occur to the WS that she will cheat on him eventually as well? Does it not say something about the OW's morals and integrity when she is actively encouraging the WS to cheat on his wife? Does the WS ever realize what he is setting himself up for when aligning himself with the OW?


I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change...I am changing the things I cannot accept.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Northeastern US
Flatlined123
♀ Member
Member # 35862
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 1st (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have asked this question to my H and he is always at a loss, so I'm hoping someone here can give me some help:

How did you seperate the two lives? How did you roll out of AP bed and come home to bed with your spouse? How could you blank your family out of your mind and if you couldn't, how did that not stop you?


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 12-09
"If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I should be able to bench press a Buick."

Posts: 659 | Registered: Jun 2012
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, January 1st (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even while his life is on the line. Hanging on to his 'perception' is more important than delivering the truth to save the M? But I guess if I understand right, he feels like continuing the lies in his mind, gives him a chance to salvage his reputation in it all?

Well I don't know about him but for me it was deeper than the level of reputation. It was maintaining my sense of self-identity, which had been very much built on lying and showing people just the parts of myself I wanted them to see. It was almost as if my entire life was a theater-in-the-round.

Think of a round stage with a prop and costume room in the center that only I had access to. The stage was partitioned such that people in the audience could only see the part of the stage in front of them. Now imagine me running in and out of the prop/costume room performing for different audiences, according to what I thought they expected and the feelings they were giving back to me. People were not really people, they were sources of feelings. Just reflections of me, really.

Giving you the whole truth is letting you move to see a different part of the stage, one your WS is not comfortable with you seeing. Only his affair partners or people who support the wayward behavior are allowed to sit in that part of the theater and get a good look at him and his behavior while on that stage.

My whole life was set up this way and I was terrified to start to let people move around the theater. I was terrified for them to know what was in my prop and costume room. And I was mostly terrified that once the partitions came down and I had to figure out who I actually was, that there would be a monster or a big nothing left.

When I finally started telling the truth, I went back and corrected a lot of the lies I remembered telling over the years. Example: I used to tell people I had three dead ex-boyfriends. I actually have two, but somehow three just seemed to make me a little more interesting. So, after I decided to stop lying, I had to tell my parents and siblings that I had lied about that. A lot of times I would have to stop midsentence, saying something like "I've seen such and such happen many times" and say "wait...I've seen that twice, actually." How many dead exes I have or how many times I saw such-and-such happen was not really imporant, but it was really important for me to practice admitting I had lied and then replacing that lie with a truth. That is the level at which I have had to work to rewire my brain: one truth and one neuron at a time.

Now I'm stumbling along the path of integrity. It leads away from being fractured and toward integration, that is, having my thoughts, words and deeds aligned with my core values and having my relationships reflect that alignment. Boy has it taken a while to get there. Still slogging through it, but I am way beyond where I was.

I hope your WS gets there.

Strength to you from a fellow EvolvingSoul.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 5:22 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)]


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 274 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
NotDefeatedYet
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Member # 33642
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, January 1st (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you turn love off and on like a switch? You love someone, you hate them enough to go look and eventually cheat, then you love them again. I can't wrap my head around this. Is the renewed love more out of guilt?


"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

Posts: 769 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Texas
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, January 1st (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EvolvingSoul... That was a great metaphor.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 2002 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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