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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm leaning toward divorce because I feel he has shown no true remorse. There is still a part of me that wonders if there is any hope left. Could the divorce wake him up into R? Should I not hold my breadth? What does it sound like to you fWSs?

JellyGirl,

I'm so sorry, but it sounds to me like your H is still "actively" engaged in his affair.

I'd recommend you pick up the book, "Surviving An Affair", by Dr. Willard Harley Jr. It is one of the few books that lays out a plan that will help you prevent vacillating between a confusing plan of F.U. and allowing yourself to be a doormat.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, December 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Face,

I'm just curious because one of the things my wife has said she's struggling to understand about herself is why she went for someone who was so far below her normal standards for a significant other.

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.

There is a verse in the book of Proverbs; "Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick".

When a spouse looses hope of having specific needs met, their heart becomes sick,,,, the mind follows soon after....

Affairs are rarely about social status. Most involve unmet needs coupled with pathetic boundaries.

[This message edited by Card at 9:44 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
kmom2662
♀ Member
Member # 41494
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card--
I think you articulated pretty well what was going on in my mind. I would add something:
--Unmet needs, pathetic boundaries, and broken coping skills.


Me-- WW, 49
Him-- BH, 53 (bobf)
Married 22 years
OEA, chat/email with multiple people over an 8 week period, 8/2013-10/4/2013
D-day 10/4/13
Working on reconciliation

Posts: 69 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: United states
LiedtoLucy
♀ Member
Member # 39246
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WH's-

My FWH and I were having a conversation about love the other day. He initially told me that he love his AP on d-day.

I asked him during our conversation if he still felt like he "loved" her or if that was a part of the fantasy land that they lived in during the "A". He said, " I am not sure that I see love the way others do. I think I see OW for what she truly is now. But, I think that I associate love with sentimentality and I had to actively choose to not think about her and things that were sentimental in our relationship before I could see all of the negative things about her."

I think he loves me in HIS way, but I am not sure it is in an emotional way. For instance, he loves me because I am the mother of his children, and he knows that I am an awesome mom. But he doesn't come up with things like.. "I love u because you are beautiful or honest or funny."

Did any of you feel this way after d-day? It's like he doesn't "love" her any more. But he doesn't really know what real love is. Also, his empathy sucks..


LTL

Me: BS
Him: WH
OW=UW or Ugly Whore- cow of WH
UW claims to be pregnant w/ WH baby and I HATE her for it.
DDay: 4/23/13
Together: 14 years
Married: 10 years
Kids: 3 beautiful boys. Ages: 8, 4, & 19 months
Trying to R-Some days are


Posts: 167 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Southeastern U.S.
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, December 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think he loves me in HIS way, but I am not sure it is in an emotional way.

LTL,

Feelings follow actions!

IMVHO, This is extremely important to remember in recovering from infidelity.

It works both in the positive and in the negative!

How can anyone feel loved by our spouse when/if the actions being taken are all about how "they" want to show love. Isn't it more important to know how to hit the bulls eye on our spouses most important needs. When we do this, the feelings that trigger love will usually follow the actions.

I know after an affair the BS doesn't always feel like meeting any of the WS's needs, but IMVHO it's important for both to do this regularly.

It can't all be one sided and it can't be a guessing game either. It requires radical honesty and a great deal of time set aside for uninterrupted /undivided attention with each other doing things together that create good memories. The good memories become sentimental ones with time.

My wife and I chose to work a marital recovery program called, "The Marriage Builders Program". We actually started with a book called "His Needs, Her Needs". It's a book about affair proofing your marriage. Along with a book called, "Lovebusters". It taught us BOTH a great deal. We followed them up with working the actual program. It was pivotal in helping to resurrect the marriage I burned down.

Feel free to PM if you wish...

[This message edited by Card at 3:26 PM, December 25th (Wednesday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WSs:

How many of you had parents who cheated? If you had a wayward parent, do you think their behavior in any way set an example for you that such behavior was tolerable?

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 1:05 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card-

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.

There is a verse in the book of Proverbs; "Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick".

When a spouse looses hope of having specific needs met, their heart becomes sick, the mind follows soon after....

But isn't it the individual's job to meet their own 'important needs'? I guess what I mean is this: at the end of the day, aren't we all responsible for meeting our own emotional needs? If we leave that responsibility in the hands of our spouses aren't we setting ourselves up for hurt when they eventually (and inevitably, really) fail?


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
SandAway
♀ Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many of you had parents who cheated? If you had a wayward parent, do you think their behavior in any way set an example for you that such behavior was tolerable?

My mom was a WW - a few times actually. I was told part of the story by my dad when I was 12 then the rest when I was 21. I never discussed it with my mom - even when my dad told me he was not my real father; that my mom had an affair and I was the result. My dad loved me enough to keep me, even when my mom had another affair 8 years later. I loved him so, so much for that.

Do I think any of this made me think it was OK to have an A? Not at all. Just typing this hurts both ways - for my dad and my BH...

The thing is DD - just because our parents had A's doesn't mean we will or that it is an acceptable excuse - my BH's mom had many A's and he is loyal to the core.

It goes much deeper then that.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 431 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad,

Both of my parents were faithful despite an extremely unhappy marriage. I was unfaithful despite a good marriage. I have never been shown any example but one of morality and doing what's right even if you don't want to. I disregarded the message.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2077 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FacePunched,

I feel that "unmet emotional needs" should never be a legitimate excuse for infidelity, and I agree that a spouse should not be "responsible" per se for the emotional needs of the other spouse. However, I do wonder, if we should not expect our spouse to at least contribute somewhat to the fulfillment of our emotional needs, is there any point in being married? Aside from the transactional partnership of raising children and pooling finances, that is?


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2077 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

However, I do wonder, if we should not expect our spouse to at least contribute somewhat to the fulfillment of our emotional needs, is there any point in being married?
Certainly. Outside of the 'transactional', your spouse is the person you share your innermost thoughts, feelings, hopes and desires with. The intimacy (IMHO) comes from knowing that you are giving this person all the potential tools to your destruction while trusting that they'd never ever use them to that end....and that you cannot, and should not, do that with everyone. I have more thoughts on all this, but maybe it'd be better suited in the 'R' or general forum, since my guess would be that there's people on both sides of the aisle, and it'd engender a lot of interesting thoughts. Thanks for the response!


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does talking about the A ever make you miss your AP or the feelings you had during the A?


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 306 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card-

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.
There is a verse in the book of Proverbs; "Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick".

When a spouse looses hope of having specific needs met, their heart becomes sick, the mind follows soon after....

But isn't it the individual's job to meet their own 'important needs'? I guess what I mean is this: at the end of the day, aren't we all responsible for meeting our own emotional needs? If we leave that responsibility in the hands of our spouses aren't we setting ourselves up for hurt when they eventually (and inevitably, really) fail?


Face,

When my wife and I began dating, right away she met some pretty important needs for me and I met some pretty important needs of hers that actually began the process of creating feelings of love in our relationship. This all happened pretty naturally and felt magical at times while we were dating. We dated, got married, began having children and settled into routines. I wish I had understood that meeting her needs gave her the desire to meet mine.....

To make a long story short, my horrible boundaries around other women allowed these other women to meet needs of mine that they had no business meeting.... It was my responsibility to protect my marriage and prevent the casual conversation from becoming inappropriate. Instead I spiraled down and committed adultery. (sorry for the extremely abridged version)

Understanding how to meet needs in my marriage became a priority for our marriage because I had destroyed what love we had for each other, by lying and cheating for 8 long months.

Learning how to hit the mark of my wife's top 3 emotional needs, on a regular/daily basis, restoring love, care and protection, was the only hope we had left if we were going to survive my adultery.

Here's some of what I learned about emotional need (From two books, "Surviving An Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Both authored by, Dr. Willard Harley, Jr.);

There are many emotional needs in a marriage.
The top 4 are actually "intimate" needs.
They are; Conversation, Sexual Fulfillment, Affection & Recreational Companionship.

Some other emotional needs include, but are not limited to; Openness & Honesty, Admiration, Financial Support, Domestic Support, Physical Attractiveness & Family Commitment.

These are most of the emotional needs that I have. I actually have all 10 of these needs ranked in order of importance to me. The most important being the one that triggers greater feelings of love every time my wife meets it.

She was willing to share hers with me too.

Her top two are; Openness & Honesty (self explanatory) Followed closely by Family Commitment (We had 5 children at that time, we now have 7)

She gave me a list of the ways she loves to have these needs met, and I work hard to do that on a daily basis.

As an example; She said she needed me to sit down with her every day, after work and just share for about 30-45 minutes about the details of my day.... Who I met, what we talked about, how I felt and what struggles I may have had that day. She wanted to connect with me and feel like she was a part of my day.... This triggered feelings of love and care that she needs, and I'm happy to do this for her... This is just one simple example, but I hope it makes sense...

You're welcome to PM with me about other details as it's my understanding that this particular forum is not meant to be used for on ongoing discussion. :)

I will add one caveat; It took months of me meeting my wife's top needs before she had much interest in meeting any of mine.... The damage I had done to both her and our children required me to carry both of our weight for a while.

[This message edited by Card at 9:56 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, December 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

soconfusednow

Miss? No. But remember, yes. Now when the topic is raised, the memory of APs feels like a punch in the gut. It's distressing and embarrassing. But in the early months, yes, I still had that residue of the "high" I got from them. I had to completely shake that off before R really started, IMO.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Steppenwolf
♂ Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, December 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many of you had parents who cheated? If you had a wayward parent, do you think their behavior in any way set an example for you that such behavior was tolerable?

Both of my parents were cheaters while they were together. I don't believe they contributed to my behaviors because of this. We Waywards do a fantastic job of rationalizing and blame shifting though.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
JellyGirl84
♀ Member
Member # 41717
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone speak on the matter of the "exit affair"? I'm lead to believe that this was a main reason for my WH's betrayal. He briefly mentioned something as he stormed up the hill from our home with a box of his shit that he ended things like this because he "didn't know any other way". This is an otherwise intelligent man but if I am honest, he was never able to stand confrontation.....so this was easier? Didn't he think I'd confront? He knows me for ten yrs. Didn't he think there'd be some hell to pay? But of course he ran away so fast and will only speak via email about bills that I guess he doesn't have to face it....

I've done such a 180 now that I haven't even responded to his latest business email. But can you help me make some sense of this insanity?


Me: BS 30
WH: 30
No kids
Together 10 yrs, Married for 3 of those yrs
OP: Ho worker
No real remorse once I kicked him out.

Posts: 96 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Nj
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does talking about the A ever make you miss your AP or the feelings you had during the A?

My XH and I never talk about the A or the AP, but I am triggered over it all each and every time I am on SI.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2077 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.

Card - don't you feel this puts excessive blame on the spouse? Many affairs are about feeling insecure, older, etc. A spouse often cannot alleviate these feelings because a spouse is 'supposed to love you and find you attractive, and be complimentary', whereas an AP has no obligation to do any such thing.

I appreciate your honesty, but I am asking if you will reconsider the wording 'by you' because it absolutely places blame on the BS.


Affairs are rarely about social status. Most involve unmet needs coupled with pathetic boundaries.

Agree 100%, but again, many needs cannot be met by the BS.

What are your thoughts on my comments?

Thanks


Love leads to tears, tears lead to sadness, sadness to memories, memories to madness

Posts: 1662 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
heartbrokeninaz
♀ Member
Member # 40779
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but do you ever think about the sex you and the AP had? When you are making love to your BS? When you are alone? I don't know why I need to know this but I do. Be honest please!


BW 40 (me)
WH 40
DDay 1 07/31/13 ONS with horseface
DDay 2 05/09/14 inappropriate texts
with another OW
One last shot

Posts: 158 | Registered: Sep 2013
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, December 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.


Card - don't you feel this puts excessive blame on the spouse? Many affairs are about feeling insecure, older, etc. A spouse often cannot alleviate these feelings because a spouse is 'supposed to love you and find you attractive, and be complimentary', whereas an AP has no obligation to do any such thing.

I appreciate your honesty, but I am asking if you will reconsider the wording 'by you' because it absolutely places blame on the BS.


Painfulpast,

In no way do I ever put the blame of an affair on the BS.

I understand how it may sound that way, but it's not what I believe, nor is it my intent.

A wayward spouses lack of boundaries, ie. letting someone other than their spouse meet their needs as a cause of the adultery. A BS doesn't get to vote, therefore, they have no responsibility in the WS's choice..... I hope I'm very clear here.

Your wife was likely woo'ed by someone that was meeting important needs that were being unmet by you at that time.

My choice of the wording above was intentional though. I didn't say "always", but I did say, "likely". And that's because I believe most do occur with those ingredients in the mix.

I also believe the condition of a marriage prior to an affair is 100% the responsibility of each spouse equally.

IMO, In order to affair proof a marriage it must have several ingredients. Care & protection, 15 hours of undivided attention together each week and openness & honesty. These areas have usually broken down in a marriage prior to the occurrence of an affair, or they may never have existed to begin with. Or varying degrees in between.

Again, I'm not saying this is what causes the affair..... The WS's poor boundaries/choices is all on them!!!!

What I am saying though is it requires tough examination of the condition of the marriage prior to the affair and a level of ownership of those conditions prior to the affair. The bulk of the ownership may reside more with one spouse than the other, but there still really needs to be ownership. Otherwise, we won't recover our marriage post-affair (assuming that's the goal).

IMVHO, Both spouses also need to take 100% responsibility for the condition of the marriage post-affair too.... This is a tall order for a BS given the choices a WS has made.... I have a great deal of respect for any BS willing to give recovery a go. It's one of the toughest things they will ever do.

I hope this makes sense, as I'm typing while talking with my wife about this. And my typing sucks! Please PM me if you want to chat more.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
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