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User Topic: Question for BS Menz
still-living
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Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you ever get to a place where you can genuinely love and respect your FWW again?

The question is, what is your definition of love? I believe love is improving ourselves through another, including improving our legacy. I believe my wife is still my best option for improving my legacy, therefore, I still love her. Working hard towards reconciliation also improves my legacy, possibly more than ever, regardless of our outcome, and if my wife fails with reconciliation, then leaving her is then my best option for improving my legacy. Its all selfish I agree, but it's all about surviving, dead or alive. Similarly, when we risk our lives to save another, are we doing it for the person or for our legacy? We are doing it for our legacy, I believe.

As for respecting her, all I can say is that I respect anyone. Disrespecting others hurts me, hurts my legacy.

Is there ever a place where the A and our lousy actions don't haunt you?

I bulldozed my way through it. The affair doesn't haunt or hurt me anymore. If anything, I might be too numb. I would rather believe I have reached peace with it. Some call this reaching acceptance and forgiveness.

When you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work?

Tough question. Most of what my wife does is by the book, as expected, or per my request. I am reluctant to agree that I should be proud of her. If I should be "proud", then should I be "let down" by the affair? Proud is a parent/child thing, IMO. WE are all adults here.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is, can you ever get to a place where you can genuinely love and respect your FWW again? Is there ever a place where the A and our lousy actions don't haunt you? When you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work?

Yes to all questions. Been there for a few years now. I'm very happy with our relationship and my FWW says she is too.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5696 | Registered: Aug 2007
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ascian
I can see how it may be used as a weapon (whether intentionally or not) in a FOO situation. Thanks for bringing that up, I'll keep it in mind when I feel that way about my kids and make sure it's a silent mantra.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think hearing it once or twice will kill anyone or cause damage to a child. But when you have a parent who says it constantly? "M'k parental unit, I get it. You don't like me. You've made it abundantly clear. Got anything else you care to share with me?"

I appreciate your willingness to discuss this and share your experiences ascian. Thank you.

ReunitePangea

Right now I do struggle still with missing the person who I thought she was.
I assume the A blindsided you? My husband came from the opposite side. He knew I was a ticking time bomb. He was not surprised in the least when I confessed. Sad really. I had spun completely out of control and about 4 years ago, he just checked out. Went thru the motions of life. Like some of the men here describe, we were just existing. He stayed to provide and care for our kids. Divorce would have been a mess. Dday was 2 years ago. Everything is different now.

things will forever be different post DDay. An A in any marriage will likely always be a life changing event.
Oh absolutely! I'm not expecting everything to go back to "normal". There is no such thing as normal now. Everything is new. Different. And that's ok.

If your H loved you before, loved you after and still loves you today, isn't that true love? He is loving you in good time and in bad despite all of your faults - that is probably as good as it gets.
Most assuredly.

1985
I always get so much from your posts. I appreciate seeing your name pop up on the forum.

BUT, you need to understand this. Reaching the level of love as existed pre-A is not something that is "work hard for xx number of months and then you are there and now its all ok and you will always be at that level".
I understand. Two years, ten years, whatever. It really doesn't matter to me. I have the rest of my life. I'm ready for the challenge.

atsenaotie
Thank you for answering my questions. I guess I struggle with idea of a partnership as you describe. It probably has to do with the fact my husband was kind of there 4 years ago. I just didn't know it at the time as my head was shoved firmly where the sun doesn't shine. Knowing it now hurts my heart. That he would willingly and knowingly stay in that position in order to protect the children and the family as a whole.

5454Real

Honestly, it can't ever be paid back. Reconciliation is a gift. Probably the biggest a BS have ever given and a WS has received. I don't think that a true R is based on an expected balancing of the scales.
You're correct. I guess what I was trying to say is, with all the bad we've done, should one choose to R, can the WS ever be/do/show enough to make it "worth it". Do you ever get to a point where the final healthy FWS, the new, rebuilt marriage is worth the hell you've been thru? Does that make sense or did I cloud it up worse?

still-living

The question is, what is your definition of love? I believe love is improving ourselves through another, including improving our legacy. I believe my wife is still my best option for improving my legacy, therefore, I still love her. Working hard towards reconciliation also improves my legacy, possibly more than ever, regardless of our outcome, and if my wife fails with reconciliation, then leaving her is then my best option for improving my legacy. Its all selfish I agree, but it's all about surviving, dead or alive. Similarly, when we risk our lives to save another, are we doing it for the person or for our legacy? We are doing it for our legacy, I believe.
Interesting take. I'm chewing on this one.

Tough question. Most of what my wife does is by the book, as expected, or per my request. I am reluctant to agree that I should be proud of her. If I should be "proud", then should I be "let down" by the affair? Proud is a parent/child thing, IMO. WE are all adults here.
So take the word "proud" away. What do you replace it with? "Expectations" and "responsibility"?

I don't see anything wrong with being proud of people that aren't our children. My sister has been bound by FOO for years. She finally got a clue and started changing things. I'm proud of her for that. Should it be "expected" of her, and her "responsibility" to do it? Absolutely. But it took nerve to do it. And I'm happy/proud of her for doing so.

QS stepped out on his own in a business venture. One lead. In a dried up economy. That took balls. Is it an "expectation" that he provide for the family? Yes. Is it his "responsibility" to do his utmost best? Yeah. But I'm proud that he took that leap off the ledge to better himself and his business.

Doesn't seem childish to me at all. But that's JMHO.

Once again, thank you gentlemen for chiming in. So many different angles on this. I appreciate them all.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6335 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
AFrayedKnot
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Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The way he expressed it to me was, for the first time in our married life, he trusts me 100%. He worried and fretted and stressed for 8 1/2 years. He saw broken, warped, little me and knew I was a ticking time bomb

I don't think he is insane at all. I felt the exact same way. It was finally the rock bottom I had been praying for for years.

As far as love and respect. I don't think they are quantifiable destinations. They are not a point at we get to and arrive. I think that is how I viewed them PreA and it was a mistake. They are ever changing, ever flowing, hopefully ever growing.

To be loved one needs to be love-able. To be respected one needs to be respectable. To be trusted one needs to be trustworthy. This is daily vigilant stuff. Like 5454 said, what I fear most is complacency. On both of our parts.

I think that after the A's. There is a microscope analyzing every move looking for those thing to grow. If there doesn't seem to be forward momentum than they must be falling back. There is no such thing as stagnant.

[This message edited by Chicho at 10:30 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2647 | Registered: Aug 2012
still-living
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Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So take the word "proud" away. What do you replace it with? "Expectations" and "responsibility"?

"Grateful" best describes how I feel about my wife 4 years out. I am grateful that she made the choices to work hard on herself, to work hard on our marriage, and that she continues choosing me, authentically, now. I believe these were her choices, not mine. I have not accepted responsibly for them. As a result, I am grateful, especially knowing how difficult it was for her to face her FOO issues. I am proud of our marriage. I am proud of what "we" have accomplished together. I am proud of our children and their accomplishments.

I hope this helps. I'm not trying to split hairs and be controversial. I'm just trying to best describe how I feel right now, 4 years out. I'm not sure that my feelings are right or wrong. I also accept that I was pissed off, scared, and felt justified in my actions early in our recovery, and that I controlled my environment to control the pain. Had I kept controlling my wife, and/or had I acquired a sense of responsibly for her actions, then maybe I would be proud of her (or proud of my control of her), maybe, I don't know.

Possibly "grateful" is what you are thinking but it seems unachievable right now? Yes, I am grateful for my wife, the same wife that cheated on me 4 years ago. I could not imagine being in this state 4 years ago, but here I am, through choices of my own for which I am proud, and through choices of my wife for which I am grateful.

[This message edited by still-living at 3:42 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
blueeyesonthebay
♂ New Member
Member # 33831
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, the scales can be balanced again. Sometimes we fudge and put our thumb on it. The problem is that we sometimes put it on the wrong side. Whichever side that might be.


It's a dark ride my friends
BH 54
WW 51
2 grown children DS and DD

Posts: 15 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: NL Canada
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chicho
This is daily vigilant stuff. Like 5454 said, what I fear most is complacency. On both of our parts.
I understand that. There have been moments where both of us have slid into the old 'norm', the old behaviors. When we realized where we were, it really rattled our cages. I think we both strive to be comfortable, but not complacent. If that's even possible.

still-living
Thanks for commenting back and giving clarity. What you say makes sense. I don't think there is a right/wrong way to feel. You feel what you feel. Thank you for adding another dimension into this.

Possibly "grateful" is what you are thinking but it seems unachievable right now?
Hmm, maybe so. I think there are moments of "gratefulness" on his part for isolated events, but as a whole package deal, I dunno. If he isn't and/or doesn't get there, that's fine, it's part of our journey. About all we can do is the best we can do and see where it takes us.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 1:52 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6335 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

can the WS ever be/do/show enough to make it "worth it". Do you ever get to a point where the final healthy FWS, the new, rebuilt marriage is worth the hell you've been thru? Does that make sense or did I cloud it up worse?

Ummm.....I hope it's still cloudy. I interpret that to mean the better stronger marriage/spouse was worth the A. Hope not, but just in case. Our goal is to have a better/stronger/healthier M *in spite of* the A. There are just too many other options available to get to the better M instead of an A.

To throw my own clouds in, if she and the marriage weren't worth it, I wouldn't stay. It's why forgiveness/acceptance plays such a large role in R. You have to be willing to *let it go*. Forgive, but not forget.

Confused yet?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3036 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for asking these questions, Aubrie, and for asking the menz to join in. I have read every word on this thread and it has been most cathartic. Thanks to all who have and will contribute their thoughts and experiences.

WW and I have been married for over 28 years. D-Day 1 was in the summer of 94, and there has been TT since then - other men, other incidents. Her hiding, lies, and TT made something awful into something much worse. It is not just sex with other men that ruined this M, it's the destruction of any and all trust due to her pathological lying and her need to control the flow of information.

I lived in a high crime are in San Jose, CA for many years. One never knew when a drive-by or assault would strike next. I went on with my life but it was always in the back of my mind. Will the next incident kill me? So it has been living with Mrs. Kite. I became hyper- vigilant, in survival mode, for much of our M. One can never rest being around a person like that.

My question is, can you ever get to a place where you can genuinely love and respect your FWW again?

We get along for the most part. She's only home on the weekend due to her work situation, and that makes it much easier to get on with life and keep the peace for those two days.

There are things about her I still love and respect but there are other parts of her personality and history with me that I don't. Other than in the beginning of this nightmare, she has done next to nothing to work on herself or on the marriage. We are occasional roommates with occasional benefits.

Why stay? For most of those years it was to raise our son. Now that he's an adult and on his own, I'm not willing to lose half of everything at this point in my life. If I came into a lot of money tomorrow, I'd begin planning my exit strategy. She knows this. This is not what I had envisioned while exchanging vows with this woman but you play the cards you're dealt.

Is there ever a place where the A and our lousy actions don't haunt you?

It's with me every day but has little to no power any longer to affect my emotions. It's like a fly that I shoo away with my hand. It took a lot of years to get to this point.

When you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work? Or are our affairs and brokenness just too much to see through?

The only hard work WW has done is ignoring the elephant in the room and shrieking and throwing a hissy fit when it's mentioned. That tactic must have worked because I rarely speak to her about her A's, her issues, or getting IC or MC any longer.

Some believe that cheating spouses get to have their fun and get away with it, while the rest of us suffer. I disagree. WW has to live with herself - a broken, haunted woman of 60, who still believes, like an adolescent, that the best way to handle a problem is to lie about it, ignore it, and hope it goes away. She hates SI with a venom because here we are daily encouraged to deal with our issues. I'd rather be me because my suffering has lessened while hers has increased due to her inability or refusal to deal with the mess she created.

Is there hope for a WS that respect, love, and trust can be restored? Absolutely! There are many examples of that here at SI. But my M to WW is an example of what happens when there is no transparency or work done to repair the damage after the A's.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454Real
*in spite of*
I think that is was I was looking for and couldn't find in my mind last night.

Confused yet?
Completely.

No, I get it. Makes total sense. And I agree with that you said. Thanks for the follow up.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 11:21 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6335 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
1owner
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Member # 41157
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can look at my WW for who she was during her A, and I am disgusted, she was a terrible person to me, the kids.

But I can look at her now and see a woman who is trying in our marriage. Someone who has at least started to come back from that terrible place. Someone who truly wants our marriage back. Someone who would undo the past and the hurt if it were possible. Someone finally out of the "fog".

I carry the scars and paint of her betrayal. There was never a time I didn't love her. I cannot respect the person she was during her A, but I can respect her as a person for coming back and trying to fix herself, I know it is difficult. I think at some point respecting her as a person will evolve into respecting her as my W again, if she continues her progress individually, and we continue together healing our marriage. Like so many others have said, it just isn't easy.


Posts: 205 | Registered: Oct 2013
Decimated
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Member # 31656
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is, can you ever get to a place where you can genuinely love and respect your FWW again?

I think I could have, I always loved her. Respect was something different. I wanted to respect her but she needed to earn that back. Sadly, XWW never put in the effort to gain that back. As time went on, without respect, my love for her began to die. I was really left with no alternative but to divorce her and leave her behind.

Is there ever a place where the A and our lousy actions don't haunt you?

Not so far. The first D-day was back in 2009. The divorce was final almost a year ago. Her affair still haunts me every day even though we now live separate lives and co-parent. As time goes on it becomes easier but it will always be there. If she would have showed true remorse, put in effort, and we stayed married, I do think that it could have faded with time but she needed to be a big part of that.

When you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work?

Sadly...No. I cannot look at her and feel proud of who she is today…she didn't do the work. I feel that she failed as a wife, a mother, and a person. She had over 2 years to redeem herself but wasn't grateful for the opportunity and the gift of R that I extended to her. She has left a trail of devastation behind her and hasn't even figured out why she did it.

[This message edited by Decimated at 11:37 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


Decimated
Me -BH 48
Her-WW 40
D Day #1 9/09 (found out about friendship, she promised NC...she lied)
D day #2 1/11 (found out EA on going...she lied)
D day #3 4/11 (found out EA was a PA...still lying)
M 16 years, 3 kids
Divorced - 1/13

Posts: 106 | Registered: Mar 2011
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My xSO told me he thought I was perfect and could do no wrong is his eyes and its one of yhe reasons my A hit so hard. I think the idea of perfection whether it be for a particular person or in general I feel sets the person up that's described as perfect for failure.
I can't speak for your EX but I used to feel the same way about my STBXWW. I never told my STBXW she was perfect though. To clarify, she was perfect but what that meant to me was she was perfect for ME. I never said she could do no wrong or could walk on water, my perception of her was she was perfect for me. I clearly understood prior to my M, during my M, and after that no one is perfect. I also told her after Dday that she was perfect for me and she had a similar response that you had but I couldn't get her to understand that perfect for me did NOT mean free from failure or making mistakes. It meant I didn't care if she gained weight, had some wrinkles, cursed to much, spent too much money during christmas, or any other thing that comes in relationships over time. I saw past all of those things because I loved her and I understood no one is perfect but she was perfect for me. I loved her faults and all. I looked at the good and focused on positive and when things were tough I "thought" we were tackling them together. I didn't realize that she didn't feel that way about me and every little thing I did wrong was indexed, categorized and filed away in the justification cabinet.

My STBXWW was the one that put the weight on her shoulders like she had something to live up to. That was never my intent nor the premise behind it and she never once until after Dday said anything about these "unrealistic expectations" I had of her. Problem was I didn't have any expectations of her. Those were all things she put on herself and hang ups she had. Even after Dday I hung around way longer than I should have because I understood that people make mistakes. Which leads me to my response to original question. I never stopped loving my wife even after DDay, I did however lose respect for her. My WS wasn't evil, she was just messed up but had no intention of trying to fix herself which was her choice. So instead of shoring up the love I felt by working on herself and trying to fix what she broke she systematically killed the love I had for her over time and I never did gain any respect back for her as a woman or wife.

Was it possible for her to get the respect back, sure but she never tried. All I wanted was for her to love herself enough to work on and resolve her issues.

Just my 2 cents.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 11:43 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1914 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ontheslope
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Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is, can you ever get to a place where you can genuinely love and respect your FWW again? Is there ever a place where the A and our lousy actions don't haunt you? When you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work?

Genuine love? I don't know. I'm not there yet. I love my W in that she is the mother of my children and has been with me for 16 years; it is a family love. But, and pardon me if this sounds like the dreaded ILYBINILWY, but that deep, genuine, "you are the best thing to ever happen to me / it's us against the world / you are my soul-mate" type love is gone, and it hasn't come back yet. I read a post once that said it feels like all the butterflies in your stomach died, and I'd say that's pretty accurate. The warm and fuzzies went away. The spark, the connection.... I don't know if it can ever really be the same.

I'm not haunted by her actions, but I am haunted by the toll it has taken on me and on our M and on my view of the world.

I can look at her and be proud of some things that she has done. She is trying to be healthy. She is trying to better herself and deal with her issues and become the person that she wants to be. But... in the meantime I sit in limbo, unsure if I will ever truly get my W back or that I will find the happiness that I once thought I had again.

I'm sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear.


Me: BH, 36
Her: WW, 37
Two girls 8 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Unagie
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Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs thank you. That makes sense actually. I think I projected a little. See in his eyes I could do no wrong, I even asked after dday, monyhs after what would have happened if and when I did mess up, because I was going to eventually as I'm not perfect and I got the answer something similar to dday, even if it wasn't an A.

Sorry again for the t/j. Thanks again to all the men answering. Your responses are invaluable.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2769 | Registered: Oct 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. Kite
So it has been living with Mrs. Kite. I became hyper- vigilant, in survival mode, for much of our M. One can never rest being around a person like that.
Would you say that you're still hyper-vigilant or does it just not matter one way or the other anymore because you have reached a sort of agreement of existence with her?

Why stay? For most of those years it was to raise our son. Now that he's an adult and on his own, I'm not willing to lose half of everything at this point in my life.
I have very little patience and therefore cannot fathom a situation like this. You must have the patience of Job. Of course like you said, she's gone most of the time so I'm sure that helps.

Some believe that cheating spouses get to have their fun and get away with it, while the rest of us suffer. I disagree. WW has to live with herself - a broken, haunted woman of 60, who still believes, like an adolescent, that the best way to handle a problem is to lie about it, ignore it, and hope it goes away.
I've seen many posts from people who believe the WS gets away with it. Alot of people believe I got off easy. I guess in a way, you could sorta say I did. QS didn't stalk my every move, he didn't rage on me, he didn't tell everyone we knew about my As. But like you said, the WS has to live with themselves.

Sure there are people with no soul that have no clue they're actually doing anything wrong. Then there are those that are miserable in their own skin and simply refuse to change. And there are others who do changes, but are still haunted by what they do.

Even though QS didn't act in "typical" BS fashion, I don't feel for a second I got off easy. I live with the knowledge that I did these horrible things to him. I'm a "better person" because I crushed him in the process of finally hit rock bottom. The cost is enormous.

It's a mixed bag of emotions. I can look at him and love him and be enjoying the moment, but in the back of my mind I see the scars and know I'm the one that put them there and I can never, ever take them back. I live with that knowledge forever.

1owner

I think at some point respecting her as a person will evolve into respecting her as my W again,
Interesting you put it that way. I didn't really specify, but that's how I meant it in the original question. Wife rather than person.

Decimated

As time went on, without respect, my love for her began to die.
Ok, so I have another question for anyone who wants to answer. Can a person truly love your spouse without respect? And/or vice versa? Or is that kind categorized in the "I love you but don't like you" or ILYBNILWY columns?

7yrsflushed
I'm not even going to bother quoting because I'd just quote the whole entire you said. You just described QS and I in a nutshell. He said that. I was perfect for him. I am the one that put those unattainable expectations upon myself. Huuuuge difference between the two.

Good stuff man.

ontheslope

I'm sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear.
I knew the answers wouldn't all be flowers and ponies. I appreciate your honesty. I see your Dday was 4 years ago. That's a long time to be in limbo. Do you think that what she's done is just a dealbreaker, despite whether she fixes herself or not? Is this something you're taking a day/week/month at a time, or do you have a deadline of sorts in your mind?

Unagie, the T/J was fine.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 12:12 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6335 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
numb&dumb
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Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May I ask if you have gotten past that point and what you did to accomplish that? Is it a continuous work?

Yes you may.

Not as much anymore and working on yourself is always continuous work :). I am fairly certain my R will successful, but I hesitate a bit to state that outright. There is a lot to it, I will try to keep it brief. Most BH in general go through a blaming themselves for the actions of their spouse. If this gets explored, as I did, you come to the conclusion that blaming yourself is really about control. Trying to own someone elses choices creates a self image crisis and guilt, but being in control is preferable to losing self esteem and feeling guilt. Once I let go of blaming myself for her actions, it got much better. I also had to admit to myself that I was still in control of my life.

We both worked on my self esteem. I know that the mantra is you need to heal yourself, but those jump starts from my W really helped me in so many ways. My W also helped me by showing me that I was not a second choice (actions not words). By speaking my love language, by showing me things about myself that I refused to see through my pain. She had to work to bring me back to the M after I had detached to the point that I really could care less if my M ended. I think this sometimes gets lost in the traditional R dogma. A BH really needs to believe that they are not second choice and that their WW really and truly wants to be with them and them only. Emphasis on believe, not just be told that. For every 1o compliments my W paid me I dismissed 9, but I heard all 10 and they still made me feel a little better.

Most men define strength and courage in a very narrow way. I had to broaden those definitions to include overcoming emotional adversity and showing mercy/grace/empathy to someone who probably doesn’t deserve it. Deserve is a loaded word, but I could not think of a better one to use in that context. Staying M to someone who cheated on me does not make me weak. It takes a man of great character to survive this. It takes a huge heart to think of everyone involved and not just yourself. Marriage vows ? I kept mine. I am proud. I am man of my word, who honors his commitments no matter how difficult. Forged in fire is an understatement. It also takes courage to ask for what you need. It takes strength to walk away if it comes to that. I had to redefine what these things meant to me. They are close, but have a few new additions. In hindsight, lesser men would have crumbled. I am not a lesser man therefore I made it through.

My W put 200% into loving me and showing me that she would change the past if she could, but she can’t , so she does what she can do today. I had to accept that it happened so that I was open to the “amends,” being offered to me in the present.Don't underestimate the "amends," aspect. It has it's place and was important for me to stop hating myself. The feelings of being taken advantage of, being a chump, cuckold and second choice are easier to work through with examples of amends to reflect back on. Effort counts as much as the effect. If I see/saw my W going out of her way to do things for me and our M, it helped me rationalize those thoughts away. (It still works BTW) . If she wasn’t, it all too easy to begin my exit strategy, lash out in anger or spiral into despair.

My W has been great with helping me see that being who I am is not a curse. I did not fail. It wasn't anything I did or did not do that caused this. It isn’t about who I am/was it is about who she was. I loved and trusted her. That is a great credit to me. People who can love without fear and condition are rare. My W found one and she almost lost me. She tells me everyday how much she loves me and is always the first person to talk me up when I get down on myself.

Again, sorry for the length. FWIW I lurked in the Wayward so many times (still do) to try and gain insight from WW and help out if I can. So many WWs have helped me during my time here. So thank you.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2570 | Registered: May 2010
Mr. Kite
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Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you say that you're still hyper-vigilant or does it just not matter one way or the other anymore because you have reached a sort of agreement of existence with her?

No, I've mellowed out. For the sake of my sanity I've had to let go. It's been a gradual process over many years. The obsession to stay up to speed on her activities and to try and fix her has noticeably lessened. "Let go and let God" has been a long, arduous lesson and she's been my teacher.

There's a lyric in a song by Jethro Tull that sums it up best for me, "I had waited for time to change her. The only change that came was over me."

I have very little patience and therefore cannot fathom a situation like this. You must have the patience of Job. Of course like you said, she's gone most of the time so I'm sure that helps.

Don't know if it's patience, selfishness, or petulance on my part. The thought of her getting half of my stuff for something that was entirely her fault causes me to hang in there. Staying married out of spite? Not something I'm particularly proud of. Some people think "Oh, I would never do that," but one doesn't truly know how they would react until reality hits them in the face. Everything else is just speculation.

Aubrie, at times I get very envious that there are wives like you and others here who have worked so hard to make things right. Then I look at my own situation and think WTH?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, at times I get very envious that there are wives like you and others here who have worked so hard to make things right. Then I look at my own situation and think WTH?

true-in fact sometimes reading here about fWW's who really get it gets me down, like "why can't mine do that?"


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5398 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
ontheslope
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Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew the answers wouldn't all be flowers and ponies. I appreciate your honesty. I see your Dday was 4 years ago. That's a long time to be in limbo. Do you think that what she's done is just a dealbreaker, despite whether she fixes herself or not? Is this something you're taking a day/week/month at a time, or do you have a deadline of sorts in your mind?

My situation is a little unique in that I rug-swept for 3+ years and it was only after a panic attack landed me in the ER and I spent the next year in IC did I finally come to terms with what had happened and start to deal with things. My therapist had to literally drag the emotions about the A out from the depths of my soul, and that happened only over the course of the past year or so, and even then albeit slowly. I didn't even feel anger over the A until I was given an exercise to write down the details of it... the "who did what to whom" part of it and all that went along with it. I will never forget that moment when I had to write "And then he pushed himself into her" and I broke down and nearly threw my laptop across the room. This was almost 4 years to the day after DDay. 4 years.

So... I haven't been in limbo for 4 years... more like just the past year. I know now that the A was a dealbreaker for me. I lost that bond with my W. I lost that special connection. Our M wasn't all sunshine and roses but it was good enough for me at the time when DDay hit. I'm stuck now with the fact that I fell out of love with my W and now I'm trying to re-kindle those feelings, but there just isn't much there to work with. I'm attracted to her physically, but emotionally we both put up walls with each other and the intimacy just isn't there.

That being said, I wake up every morning and make the conscious decision to stay M'd another day. And I hope that slowly we can rebuild what I thought we once had. But I can't hold out hope forever and she knows that.

The hardest part for me is knowing how easy it would be to detach and find someone else... I have to remind myself to stay away from the "grass is greener on the other side" mentality, because I know that can be dangerous. But I crave that connection. I want to love someone again, to truly and genuinely love them, and to have them love me back. Maybe that will be my W. Maybe it won't. Until I know for sure I just keep on keeping on.

Limbo sucks.


Me: BH, 36
Her: WW, 37
Two girls 8 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
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