Anyway, both times he was internally angry pretty much at the injustice of it all. There was no mouthing off to the cop but it was very hard for him to let it go even as we were going to bed! I have seen this happen before. Like being caught by authority really gulls him.
Now. It's impt to say that he never took this approach with me this past year. He never got angry at me when caught. He was in shock. But never lashed out. When I did scream, "why?!" that first night he said: "Because it was easy and free and fun!"
I noticed his sister cannot be wrong either. She almost gets indignant. Then I heard this voice....my FIL. In the past 20 years he has made only one neg comment about my MIL "she could never be wrong. Nothing was ever her fault." Incidentally, she bad-mouthed him for years on end, to the kids and all.
And I thought, hmmmm......there must be something to this. Anyway, he is meeting with his IC today and he wants to cover this issue plus another one that is too long to write out.
Do you think suggesting this to him pre- appointment would be helpful?
Communication is always good.
I think a lot of people get angry with tickets. I like the fact that he thinks it is unjust
Like BBFF said, the fact that he is willing to explore it is important.
We all have quirks and things that set us off. It's good to recognize them and find out the real underlying issue.
the other thing that boils my blood is when people don't take ownership....and I think that is bc I DO take ownership. See....I admitted I was sucky!
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...
The counselor says he has a strong personality trait that "doesnt necessarily follow rules because they are rules". Now we all do this to a certain point, but add the entitlement and selfish piece to it and it becomes an issue, almost a rebellion. They start believing they are above the law or smarter than the law.
LA44-I will have to dig up more of the observations because it was interesting...
On ipad so it's not pretty
[This message edited by ILINIA at 10:39 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
My WH after getting a ticket would think the officer is an idiot because there are better things he could be doing. It would tick him off that they would stop him when clearly he wasnt hurting anything.
Ilinia, we just talked about this very thing and that is what he said!
I know I was speeding. I am not disputing that but
a) I was not endangering anyone
me: what if a child ran out?
him: well I could stop. I was alert!
I just started laughing bc it was arrogant!
b) this cop has nothing better to do then to grab me for going 120 in a 100. Are you telling me everyone is doing 100?
See. You go 120 in a big city and no one blinks. You do it here and you get nailed. So...I see his frustration. Then he told the cop that he had the cruise control set on 108 and the officer said:
There. you just admitted to speeding. why would you put it on 108 when the limit was 100?
That comment had me seeing red tho too, must admit.
The counselor says he has a strong personality trait that "doesn't necessarily follow rules because they are rules".
Absolutely see this in this house too. And our son who is only 7? He is WELL on his way. It scares the hell out of me.
I would like to get to the bottom of that one. Is it okay bc no one is watching? No one gets hurt? What does it matter?
[This message edited by LA44 at 12:00 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
Is it entitlement?
And when caught, they overreact because it hits them right in the soft spot?
yep, this is what happened on anniversary night last week. He just can't stand being wrong/caught.
The sad thing though, it's typical wawyard behavior and what led them to give the ok to continue down the wayward path in the first place.... entitlement and "I won't get caught." It is my opinion that this must change to be healthy.
I'm trying to think how I fit in here myself.
Good thread, LA.
[This message edited by rachelc at 12:28 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
Hopefully IC can get him to recognize this and work on it. It's really hard to observe day after day.
I think he once yelled at a cabinet for dropping a jar on him that he had placed there earlier
omg Jrazz that made me laugh!
I am going to think of the most entitled people I know and why I think they are that way...will be interesting to see who I come up with!
Now that he has crashed, he it is sitting on the side of the road. He's caused lifelong injuries and damage. He looks over and everyone is driving past him content and enjoying life. When they look at him on the side of the road, they are thinking "What an asshole." In the end, he realizes it wasn't worth it.
[This message edited by ILINIA at 6:01 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
I noticed his sister cannot be wrong either.
This part caught my attention. My wifes sister has played roles in several of my wifes poor choices throughout our marriage. Don't need to bore you with the details but they all shared this common advice........
Keep your problem to yourself. Don't express needs. Tuck this away. Your husband never needs to know. end of advice.
You say your husbands sister shares this same life coping mechanism of reacting unreasonably strong to being found to be NOT perfect. Seems like a small jump to FOO issues as a root cause...right?
My wife and her sister share this same....don't show a weakness, we have no needs, it is the weak who are vulnerable attitude. Dad was an alcoholic, their Mom expressed needs and exposed her vulnerable side....their Dad took full advantage of this and used it against her. Kicker is their Mom was the strong one...she had the courage to express what she needed how she felt. Their Dad was the weak one...he used tactics that hid his fear and kept his selfish ways as an option for living....which pretty much is how he lives now.
My wifes sister....Lord help you if you ever point out her weakness. She hated me in college (we all knew each other in college). The fear of being vulnerable was programed in both of them. One of the things that I believe excited my wife about her A is that she had limited-liability with her AP. He was married, prominent business owner, and had no real chance of making this anything but a fantasy play date type of relationship....perfect for someone who likes to be independent, doesn't like to admit they have needs and desires, and fear being vulnerable.
Back on me....both my brothers have abandonment issues....just like me. We operate similarly too...just like my wife and her sister. He has chosen to NOT enter into another relationship with a woman. His fear of being abandoned again is large....larger than his fear of never connecting with a woman. So he has chosen. I pray for courage to do something different then he is. I see my wife trying to do something different that what her sister has advised her to do over the years.
Both decisions are unnerving to us both. But neither of us are willing to go back to who we were or what our M was. Too much pain to end up with the same relationship that got us into this mess.
I think it unrealistic that children from the same family are not similarly affected by what they observe.
After 3 months of weekly IC sessions I can NOW see my root causes. Your husband has root causes too.....he may be as blind as I was. Once I saw mine it was like....Well no shit I am fucked up! But it was refreshing because I identified my root issue and was able to address it directly.
Once your husband uncovers what root issue made him react poorly to a simple speeding ticket he can then address this core issue. There must be a core FOO issue in play here for both him and his sister to react similarly to the same stimulation....my brothers react like I do, my wife and her sister react to life similarly.
For the record, this is why my brother (who is my best friend) was NOT my choice of real life accountability partner. His advice would mirror what my own weakness is....I thought I would stand less of a chance to grow with him as my go-to guy.
God help us all.
[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:19 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]
So it MAY not be a typical FOO issue....but could be more like an OCD thing.......
I found this out when I examined myself...and why I get unnecessarily excited when I loose my keys, cant find the remote, etc..
....okay, so I have more issues than zippers on Michael Jacksons outfit in the Thriller video....I am willing to bare it all if it provides comfort to you, LA44!!!
God be with us all.
"she could never be wrong. Nothing was ever her fault." Incidentally, she bad-mouthed him for years on end, to the kids and all.
As I read this thread, all I could think about was the inability to commit to anything but self gratification. Maybe my analogy is off a little, but this is the way I see it: People, situations, consequences, etc... that get in the way of their pleasure are bad. Its as if their sense of entitlement to their own pleasure trumps any interference regardless of the source. I am not really sure there is even any malice in their perception of entitlement. Its almost as if they are not even aware of their own selfishness. Hence the problem being his anger at being caught rather than being angry at himself for taking the risk or breaking the law. I am not sure that the anger is the real issue.
Interesting thread. It give much to ponder. I hope all works out well for you and WH.
But I don't flaunt the rules or get mad if I get caught. If I have my dog off leash on a deserted beach and someone shows up, I put him on the leash. If I were to get a ticket for it, I'd apologize and pay it willingly. After all, I knew the rule and the consequence. I certainly don't want to live in a society with no rules about animals, so I accept that all pet regulation is not going to suit me personally.
Despite my rule bending nature, I seldom speed. Driving is the number one most dangerous thing the majority of us do. The faster you go, the less time you have to react when something goes wrong, and the more likely an impact will cause death. The purpose of speed limits and other traffic laws is not to annoy people but to save lives. The cops can't catch everyone who speeds, but I'm glad they are imposing consequences as best they can.
If I get a ticket (most of mine are parking ones), I don't feel like it's unjust. Enforcing the law is one definition of justice.
Maybe the wayward trait is not so much rule breaking but feeling that you deserve to live consequence-free. Believing that you'll never get caught and getting angry when you do.
My H knew he didn't want to be in his A after the first three months. But he thought there would be a get-out-of-jail-free card so he continued for over a year longer. He was able to believe that he could somehow make it go away and never have to face the reality and the aftermath. (OW threatened to tell his work or to tell me and to make him suffer if he ended it.)
To his credit, he is relieved rather than angry that he got caught and is facing the music.
Once I read advice that the time to apologize is as soon as you feel any remorse at all. Just do it, right away. Works well. Also, the time to admit your mistake is the minute you realize it. Don't point fingers. Accept that you screwed up. Say, "oops!" And then deal with the results.
Interesting post and very important to raise my kids right on this one!
[This message edited by sailorgirl at 5:38 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]
I am not really sure there is even any malice in their perception of entitlement. Its almost as if they are not even aware of their own selfishness
I definitely see this in my H but moreso in my SIL and MIL. And since the A, my H is much more aware of WS behavior.
So, I was nodding my head to all these posts and then I got to SailorGirl's...
Some rule-breakers are not entitled so much as non-conformist (I hope, because I'm one). I think long and hard, but if breaking the rule isn't going to hurt anyone, I'll do it.
My H is intelligent. I would say he is very intelligent actually. We watch jeopardy together and I am amazed at the things he knows. He almost seems bothered by certain rules bc they are.....silly. But...a rule is a rule. Sorry Mr. Smartie Pants if it is too simple for you. It exists!
Anyway, non-conformist is sooo right on but I also think it blurs into entitlement ie: He brings a coffee into the school gym for morning assembly when there are no drinks allowed, "What? I am not going to spill it." (non-conformist or entitlement!) But there are rules, I explain. You could spill it. And besides...the students have to observe this rule therefore we respect their rules. Geesh!
Since D-Day he has since never brought a coffee in to assembly. Now he just speeds!
Started with blake, will end with blake...
Once your husband uncovers what root issue made him react poorly to a simple speeding ticket he can then address this core issue. There must be a core FOO issue in play here for both him and his sister to react similarly to the same stimulation
We did talk about it before his IC, and we will talk about his session tomorrow as he is out tonight. Its been a long, long, long day as the kids were off school and its crazy windy and rainy here.
Thanks for your responses. Happy I posted something you all found interesting!
[This message edited by LA44 at 5:17 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]