SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all,

Things aren't going so well here but I am trying to plan for when things improve if they improve.

What I am wondering is when HB ends and reality sinks in how do you regain any sort of sexual confidence!? Seems to me like they did everything that was special between us and she seemed to tick every box of things H loves.

1) skirts, he loved me wearing skirts, even when we had sex as it added to the excitement, he loved lifting my skirt or getting a quick flash - she wore a dress and hiked it up around her waist.

2) sexy lingerie, H loved me in thongs and sexy lingerie, said it was far sexier than naked - she wore sexy lingerie, even asked him if he wanted to see, then did he want to touch.

3) sex outdoors, i have always wanted car sex but we never got around to it, we have done it in many places over the years but never in a car - they did it in a dark car park.

4) big boobs, I used to love my breasts not now - Hers were bigger and she flaunted them all the time in the office, leaning over him so he would get an eyeful.

5)being seduced, I often initiated sex and would go all out to seduce him - she has the upper hand again though, I can't compete with a crush picking him up in the small hours, driving him to a dark car park and lifting her skirt.

6)being shaved, I can't do that cos I have a skin condition although i do keep a short trim. - She actually told him she was shaved, wearing sexy knickers etc.

7)The thrill of someone new, can't compete there after 18years

8)someone younger wanting him, don't get that one, she is only 6 years younger than me!

9) masturbation. Sorry to be crude but this guy can play around for hours, he loves it, can't get enough. - it was the first move she made really, straight to the business end of things.

10)kissing, we only have to kiss and we end up having sex, kissing and cuddling are major turn ons for both of us. We often joke all it takes is a hug and he is like the ever ready bunny - he kissed her, twice in one day, stone cold sober at work.

It feels like everything that were 'our things' he gave to her or she gave to him.

I can't dress up for him, she did that. I can't wear sexy things and do sexy things knowing he did it all with someone younger, slimmer and new.

The only thing i have to be remotely glad about is apparently she never touched him. Her attitude was there you go, help yourself.

It doesn't matter how much he tells me he didn't enjoy it it sounds like very man's wet dream to me.

How do you rebuild your sex life when almost everything we enjoyed together they took from me.

he is open about what he enjoys and it's pretty much the list above. What's left for me if i ever feel we can be intimate again?

Yet now he claims he hates all these things, won't even let me give him oral sex cos 'he knows where it has been'. He now claims to prefer nudity to lingerie, oral (on me) to masturbation, although he still does that but he swears it's cos what he does with me is about pleasure and with her it was mechanical and nasty. That her breasts were all bra. That sex in a car park made him nervous they would be seen. He even claims to prefer my fuller figure, says curves are much better. Pre affair he was always hinting i should lose weight.

Can i believe she really has spoiled those things for him. Seems to me he is just trying to make me feel better.

Basically he is saying that all the stuff he loved before, if he did it with her or she wore it or did it, he no longer likes it. That he has changed his mind on that stuff since having sex with her.

Kind of makes me feel we have nothing left.

[This message edited by olwen at 4:15 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

((olwen))

I'm not very far down this road myself, but I'll try to share from my experience. I couldn't let myself think about their sex together. When I did, I lost my appetite and felt like I was going to have a panic attack. I reminded myself that whatever he had with her was about him, not me. That he always wanted sex from me and is still so easily turned on by me and there's no faking that. I also don't know lots of details because I know they would haunt my mind for a long time, even if we divorced.

If you're not ready, if the thoughts are too much, then don't have sex. He needs to respect that. Focus on other things that you can enjoy together. Sensual massage? Him focusing solely on you/your pleasure? There are certain things that are part of your sexual scripts with one another that you may want to re-incorporate once time has passed. But right now if those things are triggers, then give yourself permission to take a break and need time to work through them.

Truly what helped me most was seeing that he's still so attracted to me and talking with him about the triggers and the loss of confidence. The biggest thing was remembering that, regardless of her appearance, his affair wasn't about me being lacking in any way, it was about him being lacking. In fact, it sounds like even though he wasn't with you, he was trying to act out sex with you. So to me, he was using her as a cheap substitute.

ETA: I think reminding yourself of some of these things can help your confidence. As can tuning into your body and what you're feeling when, so you know as soon as the discomfort starts and can identify triggers.

[This message edited by loyalwoman at 4:27 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Hi Olwen,

Sex here is ok.

IMO there is no way my wife and I can have the sexual excitement she shared with her AP. I get what you are saying about lingerie, shaving, locations, etc....but those all can be recreated. The item that can't be recreated is the illicit, erotic, forbidden nature of their relationship. I mean how exciting was it for my wife to drop our daughters off at school and him drop their5 kids off at school....and then rush to meet him to enact what they had texted about the night before?!? The children would be a mood BREAKER if the mind were engaged....but the heart was so infatuated with this erotic love that the heart told the mind to fuck off. On the flip side of that....our marriage had a mix of heart and mind involvement pre-A.

After our DD....our hearts were so abused and hurt that our balance is the opposite. Our minds try to console our hearts....and our hearts tell our minds to go fuck off. BUT our minds know sex is important part of a relationship so it motivates us to sex. Strong passion comes from the heart, strong reason comes from the mind. When the two combine you have a connection and intimacy.

We are a couple that has two kids and 16 years of marriage. We are very open sexually and nothing is taboo for us.

My wife and her AP had what boils down to a high school, young love fling.

IMO even those in a LTA keep this feeling alive because the forbidden nature combined with shallow but intense passion keep it so.

We have a choice....we can keep our views and hope sex improved or we can break our vows and either D or have a RA of our own.

I am following your posts closely. I see you, like I, are currently choosing to learn to R. You, like I, are hoping that marital sex will someday be good again.

I will say that although my wife and I are adventurous in the bedroom....our sex experience WAS just between us, we were each other's firsts, were going to be "only's".

I wonder if this is easier for couples that had multiple partners before M?

Olwen, do you ever wonder or get excited about sex with a man other than your husband?

I am hopeful my heart will someday find its way back into our marriage....I pray the same for all affected by adultery.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:04 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Whew - my first thought is you have a lot of detail! It is a double-edged sword. Our mind wants to know, but it breaks our hearts, and haunts us.

As our MC said - the body has no ethics. It is the heart and mind coming together with the body that make lovemaking. Sure, our spouses might have filled some sexual need, but that doesn't make it the same as what they had/have with us. (Some of us even have WS who thought they were doing it in the name of "love," which arguably makes it worse.)

I like how blakesteele described it: forbidden nature plus shallow, intense (I'd add immature) passion. Hello high school! It was a joy ride that turned into a nightmare.

So olwen, I say you focus on yourself. Do what makes YOU happy/excited, etc. I promise that is what your H will like the most.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 6:42 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Hi all,

I think I got a bit carried away posting all those details. The short version would have been that everything to do with sex triggers me badly cos he did it all with her, even the kissing triggers me. I feel I can't compare with her.

As for the high school thing that's exactly how he describes it but not in a good way. He describes it as two kids just having sex to lose their virginity, no passion, no love, just an awkward fumble, they didn't even kiss in the car.

Neither of them enjoyed it, it was simply the culmination of weeks of flirting but they didn't click. H says he didn't even want to do it but felt he had to cos he had led her on so much to get his attention. Also he wanted to keep their friendship and not humiliate her by refusing - how noble

So apparently it was cold, boring, and plain nasty but it doesn't make it easier, they still did all that stuff and whenever we have had sex (not for a few weeks at the moment) I can't stop imagining him touching her, kissing her having sex with her.

He says even though she was wearing a dress, sexy knickers, seduced him etc that it left him pretty much cold. He says its all different with me, so much better that she doesn't even compare in anyway and the memory makes him feel physically sick.

He says yes he loves all those things I listed - but only when it's me. He says that's the difference, he had no feelings for her just stupidly felt he 'owed her' but that it was the biggest mistake of his life and nothing she could have done would have had an impact like what we do.

I just struggle to believe I could compare to someone like her.

[This message edited by olwen at 7:41 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

This is a timely post for me as well olwen. I also know a lot if detail and our sex life pre-A wasn't that great. We went through HB but now that it's fizzling, I just feel awkward and the mind movies can be terrible.

I know sex is an important part of a relationship and it's not that I don't enjoy it, I just can't let myself go enough. I am constantly thinking that their sex was awesome and I don't measure up. Even if he wants to be with me, I can't shake that our sex life will never be as exciting as what they had.

((Olwen))

(((AML04))) that's exactly how I feel

Blakesteele - hello there, I get what you're saying about the heart and mind. H says that's why it's so different, it's not just sex with us.

In answer to your question, yes I have found other men attractive in my life and had sex with two men prior to H, one was abusive, the next rebound guy. H has NOW had 7 sexual partners. However since I have been with H I never fantasise about other men. Even in my mind I am faithful

I think it just takes time....

For me it was kinda creepy, like we weren't alone anymore, if that makes sense.

You wonder if the AP is in the room so to speak. In their thoughts, fantasies.

It did go away. I think it may have been a good year or so though.

Good old time, it becomes the best friend you wanna hate.

((olwen)) I'm so sorry for all of the special things that were taken away from you. Reading your post made me cry, because I know how horrible I feel, how shattered my confidence and self-esteem are, when I didn't have as many of these things taken from me. I cant imagine how you are feeling.

I am assuming that this is something that we need to address in IC. I have convinced myself that WBF and I have more than just sex, we have a connection, we love each other, so that makes it better than it could have been with OW, but that doesn't quite do it. I still feel like I'm not good enough anymore, that he had something better and there's no way I can compete with that.

I have a hard time believing that suddenly your WH has changed everything that he likes, but I suppose it's possible. If he's been honest enough to tell you they did all those things, maybe he is being honest that they are all ruined for him now. If he has realized what he's done and this has been a traumatic experience for him, maybe he really doesn't like those things anymore. Maybe they remind him of the idiot that he was when he did those things with someone besides you. Maybe he realizes that the "special" is gone and wants to make new "special" with you.

I think my problem is mostly self-esteem and confidence in myself. I plan on talking to my IC about this today actually. Are you in IC? Have you talked to him/her about this?

olwen

YOU are his past.

YOU are his future.

she was just a sperm bank.

Always remember that!

Exit wounds, thanks for that since he didn't 'finish' I guess she wasn't even that! Just a bit of strange he found out wasn't what was was cracked up to be.

Just to clarify, the things I listed were the things I feel were taken from me. He then told me those things don't matter to him now and some he downright hates cos they trigger him too. so he has been reassuring me they aren't the ONLY things he finds sexy. It's only me that matters. He has said today however that he DOES still like those things but only with me and cos he triggers too with those things we will give them a miss for the time being until they naturally become ours again.

Not sure if that makes sense, eg. the knicker thing, he loved me wearing sexy knickers but now when he hears the term or sees anything like she wore he goes cold and would rather I went au naturel for now (or even my bridget jones pants!)and reintroduce sexy lingerie at a later date.

Does that make sense? Even just making love is hard enough now with the 3rd person in my head so I guess we will take things slow. The main thing for now is closeness anyway.

I just hate she did so many of his favourite things even though she wouldn't have known they were his likes, I guess they are any mans likes!

I understand how you feel ((Olwen)). You can get caught up in trying to be 'better' more 'exciting' etc. it's a rabbit hole, you'll never find your answer doing that. He wants you? Tell him to prove it. He can work to make you feel special. What do YOU like sexually? What kind of panties do YOU get turned on wearing? What do you sexually fantasize about? have him plan some thing around/for you. Make it about what you want for awhile, not what he did with a girl so pathetic she threw herself at a married man. She isn't your competition.

Not to rain on anyones parade...but this idea of sex with AP being cold and unexciting? I don't get it....I simply don't.

When I mentioned highschool sex....I found it highly arousing and passionate....not deep, but highly engaging! To be sure I am talking about heaving petting and kissing...no orgasm with the girl, but plenty of them after I thought about what I did with her!

There is no doubt my wife really enjoyed sex with her AP. If I had not gone to his house late at night and brought reality with him...I think it highly likely my wife would have chosen to continue the affair....he dumped her right after my meeting with him.

But this cold, unexciting feeling COULD exist. I am open to that idea.

I am also open to the idea that WS's that profess this statement could be trying to continue to control their world...minimize what they did and why they did it. I think it healthier for all of us to realize the only person we can control is ourselves...and even that has proven to be a very difficult undertaking!

Besides...doesn't this admission of "funless sex" or "meaningless" of ANY kind stand the chance of making what our spouses gave away even more....tragic?

It has been said that sex makes up only 10% of a good marriage....but when it is lacking, it affects the other 90%.

Hang in there Olwen....we got your back. This too will pass.

God be with us all.

God be with us all.

(((lostinthismess)))

Wonderful response! I continue to be envious of those of you who can show such solid support with so few words.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 11:32 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

I am sorry, but I also got the "he perhaps doth protest too much" feeling. I don't mean to add pain to pain, though. I think that is why the idea that the body doesn't, in itself, have ethics is helpful to me. My H had, and at the time, enjoyed sex with someone else -- it hurts, but yet doesn't mean diddly squat in most important regards. It just means he was, for a time, a self-centered, self-justifying, hurtful creep.

lostinthismess - what great post, really made me think he says that's what he wants, to make it all about me and show me how sexy he finds me. I just feel too unconfident now but am sure it will come in time.

Blakesteele - I do know what you mean. I know what you meant about high school sex, the nerves, the excitement, the new feelings - none of it compares to grown up love and sex for me though.

I also get what you mean about his insistence it was cold and mechanical. I do believe him, she told me kissing him was a total non event so I can't imagine an awkward fumble in the car was any better. I honestly think it was a game they were both playing but neither was that into each other for real. They both wanted the attention and for the other person to want them but they never actually wanted each other, sick mind games.

I think She just wanted to see if she could pull her married boss I think for an easy ride at work. Apparently she used their relationship to get him to do all her work for her! Can you say SCHMUCK!

So yeah, they used each other, her for an ego boost and an easy life, him for the ego boost and attention. When she took it further he just went along with it cos he was curious and too bloody weak to say no when it was being offered. I know just about every detail and it was something I would never want to experience. Some of the details are SO graphic he could not have made them up, the look of disgust on his face tells me that.

So yes, in short, it takes a special sort of manipulative person to go through with having sex just to keep the other person they rely on so much to feel good about themselves. I told him at least if you had the raving hots for her I could blame lust, if you thought you loved her then you would already have had one foot out of our relationship. What he actually did was sick, just to have sex because he was too weak to say no, cos he had led her on and didn't want to lose his 'special friend'. He actually thought he was in control and could stop it at any time but it turns out she was in control all along.

It doesn't make it any easier, you're right.

I appreciate everyone's replies but am concerned this may become another post insisting he must have enjoyed the sex.

I will never know for sure as I wasn't there but their relationship was 95% mind games. They never discussed it, kept each other guessing, she constantly text him but when he tried to stop it said they were just friends and he was too weak to stop it, got too much out of the attention. he loved having a younger woman apparently doting on him, she loved dragging a married man into her net. They didn't fancy each other much it was all about how far they could get each other to go as far as I can tell.

The details I have from him are too graphic, too precise and haven't changed since day one. His story on his feelings, curiosity, temptation before sex are still confused and he has admitted he was curious until he actually touched her then it was all downhill from there.

So for me I choose to believe that, the details are too persuasive for me not to. It makes no difference, they had sex, he betrayed me I would really rather not discuss whether it's possible for him not to have enjoyed it.

I have had sex and not enjoyed it, so I don't see why two people who didn't even talk openly with each other and were clearly using each other, would have automatically clicked and enjoyed sex.

Also I am sure after doing it once, if they enjoyed it, it would have been repeated and it wasn't.

Of course I could be being the world's biggest fool and he could be lying his head off. I guess I may never know. When someone tells you step by step everything that happened, no matter how hurtful and disgusting its hard not to believe. If he can admit to exactly what he did why would he lie about enjoying it? He still did it, if it mattered if he enjoyed it or not I would not be so self conscious. If he hated it I shouldn't be so jealous but I am regardless cos he still got THAT close to someone else.

I just wanted some help on regaining sexual confidence and I appreciate everyone's reply.

[This message edited by olwen at 11:12 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

olwen, I think one of the things that helps is trying to believe him when he says that YOU are, above all, what turns him on. And since sex is triggering both of you, finding other ways to connect physically might help you get it back over time. Shoulder rubs, foot rubs, sitting on the couch with one's arm around the other...the little reconnecting things. (Can you tell my love language is physical touch?)

His infidelity wasn't about you. It wasn't about you not satisfying him sexually. It wasn't about you not being attractive to him. You, just as you are, are more attractive to him than her. His infidelity was about him, about him being broken and dumb and whatever other adjectives you'd like to use. But it was never about you. Please give yourself permission to need time to heal, to take a step back from certain activities if you need to.

I appreciate everyone's replies but am concerned this may become another post insisting he must have enjoyed the sex.

I think in order to relate, we project. I get what you originally meant, that the things you thought were special are tainted. Reading your original post, it seemed to me it was all the things 'he liked' were tainted. For me, getting the attitude of screw what he likes, it's about ME for a change and what I like now!!! That helped me get past the sexual barriers a little bit. I went from being worried about him comparing me to he needed to worry about measuring up and proving he was worth my sexual time. I hope you find something that helps, it's a sucky place to be.

Blakesteele - I do know what you mean. I know what you meant about high school sex, the nerves, the excitement, the new feelings - none of it compares to grown up love and sex for me though.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.....but I think you got my point. What is shared within an A us more like immature, juvenile sex....not mature intimacy. Do you believe your husband had mature grown up love with his AP?

I don't believe my wife did with her AP. If she had she would have filed for D. If her AP did how could he find it again so quickly?(he is on to another woman, not his wife).

In my sitch ....assume my wife HAD mature love and intimacy with her AP....he got what he fucked her, then found another. Can this mature love exist with only one participating member if that relationship? Again, I don't for a minute believe my wife had that with her AP....too many lies and secrets to be truly vulnerable, truly connect at a mature level.

An "exit affair" may be a different creature....but that is not what my wife had....nor does it appear your husband had.

I am glad your husband didn't change his story....my wife did lots of TT'ing and had a thick fog. That combined with the habit of lying and deception have left her confused and lost....me too! But at some point in your husbands relationship he convinced himself what he had with his AP was worth risking your marriage and family over.

Now we have to figure out how much we are willing to sacrifice to learn to R.

The learning curve for me is steep. It requires daily choices.

This "intentional" way of marriage is , sadly, new-to-me. Pre-A blakesteele falsely assumed my M would always be there. That my unmet needs would magically be met "sometime in the future". Until I am convinced I have embraced this intentional way of approaching M effectively, in healthy ways,I will refrain from D.

I am sorry for your pain Olwen. Time plus commitment-actions are key.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 11:57 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]