As many have said welcome to the best place you never wanted to be. There has been some good advice so far on how you should proceed so I won't rehash but wanted to touch on a subject that reflected my situation.
she tells me she loves me but is not IN love with me anymore
There are two types of love that are out there, I may get the verbage mixed but the definitions fit. The first is "attraction" where it is the initial stages of meeting someone and is like a stimulant in the brain (i.e. cocaine). The second is "attention" where it is a long term love and acts like a narcotic in the brain (i.e. heroin). Your WW is in what is called "the fog", please look at the healing library as that can help you try and make some sense out of it. From my experience you are going to see a very nasty side to your wife if the affair is truly done and because of your doing. I caught my STBXWW at the OM house and then filed for divorce. She blames me for the breakup of the affair and the marriage and lashed out at me verbally at the courthouse for our temporary orders. Big thing is to remember to stay calm no matter what, I found that ended up making her more mad because I was moving on. Do the 180 as well to show that she does not need to be your rock anymore and care for yourself and your sons.
It would be interesting if your state/province is "No Fault" or a "Fault". No Fault means they don't punish the person in the marriage that broke it, and I bet you can see what a fault state does in reverse. This could help you if you do go down the path of divorce.
Please keep posting as this forum has been an immense help to me in my recovery. These are a great group of guys to have as a sounding board and support group!
Nope, still too dumb. Anybody got a tutorial on photobucket and iPad for tis site?
[This message edited by sunsetslost at 11:45 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]
Has she expressed interest in reconciling? You mentioned a letter that sounded mostly like she was blaming you for the affair.
IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
She is broken and she made the bad choices on her own; you did not make her choices for her. She owns 100% of this shit.
If she has expressed that she wants to reconcile she needs to come completely clean and tell you everything, she needs to be completely open (you get all pw, no erasing history or texts, etc.) and she bloody well better be truly remorseful.
I would not consider reconciling unless she owns her shit. You may give her a bit of time but she should of been in IC yesterday and dealing with her problems and deciding if she is going to be open and honest with you.
[This message edited by bobf at 12:44 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
The fantasies were about a sex club in San Fran with both straight and gay sex and B&D, Maine, Italy (we are going there this summer), Greece and guess where? Fucking Washington D.C. (essentially our home town)!
I had asked before if they ever planned to meet. She said, "No" and said that Vermont guy had suggested meeting when he comes to DC for a research conference and wife says she told him no. But she also said he was "too tempting" to another of her sexting partners in a chat that I recovered and that she never expected me to read. I asked her if she ever said she loved him. She said no, but she said that "I thought this would just be an escape from boredom, but it has become something more" and he answered in kind that it was something more to him too.
I remembered those details and asked if she wrote the fantasy before or after he said he might come to DC. She said she couldn't remember, but does it really matter? He suggests meeting first and she writes the fantasy or she writes the fantasy then he suggests meeting? Fuck it either way. If wife hadn't got into a fight with me and partially confessed (I swear she did it as much to hurt me as anything else), they would of been fucking in a DC hotel in October, I am sure of it.
God I am upset. I know she didn't do him in the "marital bed" but shit.
I know this is still so fresh to me but what concerns me more than anything right now is my LACK of emotions to the A.
It's called shock.
She has not taken the any steps to saving this marriage. I believe she is waiting on me. she tells me she loves me but is not IN love with me anymore.
Heard the "I still have some feelings for you" speech, whatever the hell that means. Give both you and your WW some time until the shock wears off for you, and the fog lifts from her brain, before making any major decisions. The first six months were mostly spent controlling myself from doing something that would end up with me in prison. I lost and regained 30 pounds during that time period.
I NEED my boys in my life. I don't think she would take them from me but then again I never believed she could ever be capable of an affair either.
Never underestimate the potential evil and nastiness that lurks in the heart of someone who is capable of betraying their mate. If you get to the place where D is on the table, get an attorney to go to war for you. "Be wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove."
Read and post here as much as you can handle. We are here for you.
PICTURES: In order to display an image within your post, the image must be hosted on a web server. There are several free hosting services for your images. Here are acouple that you can use: picturaltrail.com – photobucket.com
Once you have your image uploaded or you have found a picture on the internet you want to embed in your post, you can then post your image by right-clicking on your image and selecting "Properties", copying that Address (URL) and then pasting it with the [ img ] at the beginning and [ /img ] at the end of the URL tags.
*Note that the brackets have to be right next to the letter "i" and the letter "g." I moved them out or else it wouldn't show up in this post. Hope that helps.
[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 1:48 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
[This message edited by sunsetslost at 1:56 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
Jim Bob, mastermind of this event. More to come
[This message edited by sunsetslost at 2:31 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
I feel your pain, really. Even your handle describes how we both likely felt. "Never happen to me. She wouldn't do that to me." Like you, I was too damn accomodating, trying to be the supporting and understanding husband while getting the shaft. We sound alot alike, but you're in the middle of the fire.
I was (i suppose) lucky enough not to learn of the dirty business until many years later when it was over, and my wife had really changed her life.
What I'd tell you right now, is to analyze what has happened to your marriage very honestly and in detail, and lay it out to her. Point of fault by both parties. Explain. Tell her like you've told us. Be the man she fell for, let the emotion out, and claim your due.
As for never wanting to touch her, and the endless mind movies you see: Oh yes, we understand. It is brutal and debilitating.
I was again somewhat lucky in that my wife somehow was thoughtful enough to limit the encounters to strictly condom covered stuff, and no oral, etc. I believe this after our talks.
Its something you'll have to deal with, and be honest with her at how it affects you. For a husband it is nothing less than revolting, disgusting, sickening. Impress that on her.
[This message edited by Justgreatnews at 8:42 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]
analyze what has happened to your marriage very honestly and in detail, and lay it out to her. Point of fault by both parties
or not. (take what you need, leave the rest)
The analysis of:
"what has happened to your marriage very honestly and in detail, and lay it out to her."
...is very simple:
That is all.
Why? Well, for one, you were in the same supposedly troubled M - did you have an A?
Having an A as an excuse for a troubled M (and let me ask you, who has a M that does not have troubles?), is like pushing your car off the cliff to fix it.
Point of fault by both parties
What many unremorseful and manipulative WS's do is
"Want to talk about the M"
They do this in order to avoid owning their shit.
Plain and simple.
See, if they can talk about "all that's wrong in the M"
they can pin you
wriggling on the wall,
YOU had something to do with her choice to cheat.
Fuck that noise, sir.
Avoiding consequences through manipulation always brings my anger clowns out,
so forgive the tenor of this post.
2 good ways to shut that shit down:
- "We will not talk about the M. The old M is dead.
YOU killed it.
& unless it was a drunken ONS w/ a blackout,
it was premeditated murder.
- another one I like is to go along with it;
act all interested in asking when her dissatisfaction started, with examples.
Like the time you
farted in public
belched at the table
didn't hold the door
do the dishes
watched teevee too much
"Amazing your memories of my shortcoming are so
& you say you can't remember how many times you spread your legs?"
Better for you and your healing to just
shut. that shit. down.
Now, you want a new M?
Here's the deal wifey -
I'm offering the gift
(don't miss that - it's a gift!)
YOU, wifey, are the one who has to do the work.
You can't fix her
love her back
make her remorseful
Without the 4, all 4:
...you cannot have true R.
Nice pics sunsets!!!!!
All very good advice.
Sunsets - great pics. Looks like a fantastic time.
At this moment in time I am currently doing the 180 and it is made me feel so much more empowered. I feel like I have control at least if its only with what my own decisions and/or actions are.
I think I had a bit of a break through yesterday, I went out to visit my brother after the kids were put to bed. Had a couple of drinks watch the Leaf game. without any leading up to the conversation I look at my brother and told him about my ww. What I feel this has done for me is made it a reality and has taken me out of the BS FOG.
My WW went out and purchased a book and because im doing the 180 I was not going to ask what it was about. while I was preparing some food for myself in the kitchen I was trying to get a glance at the cover while she was reading. By the way just bought the book 3/4 the way finished. I was hoping it had something do with her and the A but NOPE it was..... A detox book for eating healthier and better skin WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what you are concerned with at this moment in our lives. I feel that we are at a crossroads turn left for R turn right for D and let me be honest I am starting to look down the D road.
I have found myself researching the D laws in my province. At this point I think it is inevitable.
I would like to ask the BS who are a little further down the road 2,3 some of you 10 years R or at least attempting to. Some of you say you still get panic attacks or around D day anniversary time you still may get mental pictures in your head of the A. There are some that say you still don't completely trust or respect your ww or in some cases fww. Is this how I can expect to live if I R? im not sure I can, how do you BS and FBS deal with this?
Thanks again in advance
If your searching for that one person that will change your life, look in the mirror.
I wish I had some more advice to offer. Just wanted to let you know you've been heard and hope some of the other guys have some better advice.
She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.
My R has been going well since D-Day just over 3 years ago.
There are lots of different paths and results, and we can change at any time, but my experience has been good enough. For the first year or 2 I felt the A just about all the time, but now I don't. I guess I think about it every day, but that's usually just a brief annoyance.
My W's A is still a live thing in our lives because my W is still dealing with her thoughts and feelings about it. The pain that got her into her A is still alive. The pain that her A caused me, though, feels residual. I trigger sometimes, and I can certainly trigger hard, but I get over that in a day or 2 at worst, I think - 2 or 3 times in the last year, I think. I expect next year will be easier.
My trust level has jumped up a lot in the last few months. I see more faults than I did pre-D-Day, and I respect and admire her quite a bit less, but I love her nevertheless. Who can explain that?
Our success is due, I think, to a lot of factors, including:
1) My W took responsibility immediately. She knew she fucked up, and she was determined to stop herself from fucking up again, whether I agreed to R or not. From the start she was pretty close to 100% willing to answer questions, and she was 100% in for transparency, NC, MC, & IC.
2) We have a great MC.
3) I knew from the start that the A was not about me. I felt responsible in my gut, but I kept combatting that feeling. I took no real responsibility.
4) MC has been mainly about the A, and it was about the A alone for the first several months. During that early period, MC suggested I change some things that help our M in general, but the reason for changing was to help my recovery from the A, if that makes sense. My W did have some legit complaints about me pre-A, but those were never suggested as reasons for the A. (Dealing with the A has led to changes in those areas naturally, with no special effort.)
5) I focused on my own healing. I believe holding on to anger/grief/fear is like taking poison and hoping another person hurts (I don't know who I stole that from), so I really worked on recognizing my pain and letting it go.
6) I didn't commit to R for 90 days, and I committed only because my W worked consistently for R for the whole 90 days (and because I wanted R). I didn't commit until I knew I could make a good life without my W. Knowing that I could walk away made it easier for me to stay, if that makes sense. (I sort of wish I had waited at least another 30 days.)
7) I emphasized and re-emphasized that coming clean now was essential. I kept saying that a revelation now might cause me to walk, but the same revelation months down the line would cause me to walk. That worked - no TT.
8) I had my W sign a release that allowed her IC to talk to me and to bring anything from IC into MC sessions. Otherwise, she could have said one thing in IC and another in MC (same C for both).
9) I read a lot here. I posted a lot, too. SI taught me a whole lot, gave me a lot of support, and helped me understand what I was going through. It kept me aware I wasn't crazy or on the wrong track.
That's all I can think of now.
I'm with jjct in his post above. You can't begin to deal with pre-A issues until 1) you both deal with the trauma of being betrayed, and 2) your W makes a good start on changing from betrayer to great partner.