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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sense that the unveiling of my powers has been met with skepticism in some quarters.

There's nothing left to do but to fulfill my role in the vision. Cheers!


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL @ sal! Fulfill your role!

fol - she cut her hair...it was loooong, straight, *down to here*, painfully beautiful.
I'm figuring it out though...ain't my first brodeo. I feel pretty good about not knowing how they work. I mean, look at the evidence: Females know females...and they hate each other.
Yeah, I'm safe.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Role fulfilled, jjct. Leaning towards an overfill at this point.

And I share your (apparent) taste for brunettes, brother.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
sunsetslost
♂ Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I swear jjct's doppelgänger is at this bar. And fittingly he's with a beautiful blonde girl. If I could figure out how to get a pic.....


D Day: 6/13/13
Moving on. Every Single Day.

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jul 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hahahaha sunsets - figures he's with a blonde! sal's right!

Guys, let's not buy into "either or", "black and white" thinking - we know that's how the disordered think anyway, so let's eschew that.
It's not that you're either alpha or beta.

Look at some NB threads to get a feel for how women are trained...conditioned for the bb, and are working to 'help themselves' out of that programming.

I'm saying we don't have to be an asshole alpha just because the wimmenz don't want a beta. Make no mistake. Wimmenz don't want a beta.
Now, use your imagination. You got one doncha?

Ok then, be strong you. Loving. True. Faithful.
They're droolin over you.
Authentic confidence is the royal flush of attraction.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Authentic confidence is the royal flush of attraction.

We have a winner. That's going to the quote thread, in about 20 seconds.

ETA: jjct, I let my wife know, soon after D Day, that if she wanted another man, her ass could hit the road. Or put my ass on the road, but shit or get off the pot either way. She chose me. I've never really fit into the beta category, but maybe years of domestication changed the way she regarded me.

Whatever, I am what I am. Love me for who I am or move on. Somewhere between D Day and D Day plus 2, I became the prize that must be kept at all costs. OM got quickly kicked to the curb. I guess that officially makes me an alpha, and OM a highly expendable beta.

These are just labels. Meaningless, really. I know that I'm a man that wouldn't even consider screwing another man's wife and sneaking around for almost a year like a cowardly thief, and that alone puts me way above OM. Not an apples to apples comparison.

BM brothers, you're all alphas in my book.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 8:39 PM, December 20th (Friday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are the prize.
Agree with everything you say. Alpha with a heart. They're drooling at someone who'd eschew milking through the fence as Tred would say.
Someone who wouldn't consider screwing another man's w is automatically alpha!
Those who do? Sorry. Upham weasel.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 12:43 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just thought of share with you guys what I made the other night.

BLACK IPA
Will be ready in about a month.

And I probably won't be on for a few weeks after tonight. Will be off with the wife for Christmas. I hope all of you have a wonderful holiday season and drink a cold one for me!

[This message edited by TheCollector at 12:44 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and this...

My Russian imperial stout...%9.....oh yeah boys
Sorry to flood the board with pics but I had to show off a little ya know with all this beer talk.

[This message edited by TheCollector at 12:47 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In Russia, beer drink you.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
justjim
♂ Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Greetings, gentlemen.

I spent most of last evening sipping tequila and reading this entire thread. I found a lot of wisdom in the words of so many of you who are further down the road to recovery than I.

My profile hasn't been updated since recent events, it's just been too painful. Bottom line is that I returned home unexpectedly on Thanksgiving Eve to find her and her best friend (female) loading up her clothes in their vehicles. When asked what was going on, she replied that she was simply "getting rid of some old things" she didn't wear anymore. I called bullshit on that and she admitted that she was leaving. She left the morning of Thanksgiving.

She came back a week later to get some more of her things. Told me that she had been planning her exit for months and was actually all set to leave on November 1st, but decided to wait until Thanksgiving Day. She wouldn't give me a reason.

She will not admit to an OM (even though she has been seen with him). She insists that her leaving is all my fault because I spend too much time reading, cooking, working in my vegetable garden, canning, etc. (my hobbies), and that I am not effusive enough in my joy at her very presence.

She took off leaving me with all of the financial responsibility (she makes more money, our bills depended on her salary), and leaving me unable to hire an attorney or a P.I.

The one attorney that I had a consultation with spent 30 minutes telling me that she could/would not give any legal advise during the consultation, I would have to give her a $2500 retainer for that. Then she charged me $100 for the consultation (I didn't expect that).

I am in a dark, dark place. All I want is my wife back or at least to stop missing her so damned much.

Reading your stories and the friendly banter here does give me some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I just hope it's not another train coming.

I know newbs are expected to by a round... hope you guys can stomach a PBR. It's all I can afford right now.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 265 | Registered: Oct 2013
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am in a dark, dark place. All I want is my wife back or at least to stop missing her so damned much.

Gently, justjim - you don't need her. She is not who you thought she was. You can be strong without her. You can be HAPPY without her. She does not define you. YOU define you.

In life we walk a path. Sometimes others chose to walk it with us, for a while. Your W left the path, and perhaps she has found her own trail to walk. That doesn't mean you can stop. Your path continues on. Walk it with head held high, my friend.

If she is truly gone, then let her go. Take care of yourself. It is always darkest before the dawn.

Peace out.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She insists that her leaving is all my fault because I spend too much time reading, cooking, working in my vegetable garden, canning, etc. (my hobbies), and that I am not effusive enough in my joy at her very presence.

Sounds like the mind-set of a typical bratty adolescent. There are women who complain that their husbands are out drinking, gambling, and whoring, but your sin seems to be staying home doing the cooking and the gardening. There's just no pleasing some people. Trust me brother, there are tons of women out there who would jump at the opportunity to be married to a man with your interests. Your situation is just one more example that some people are delusional and will make up any excuse to justify their bad choices in life.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
justjim
♂ Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny thing is, I know all of the things I should be doing to heal... I just can't seem to do them.

I can't go out with friends. Never been much of a "going out" kind of guy. Anyway, everything, I mean EVERYTHING reminds me of her.

I know what and who she really is now. And still I miss her. Still I can't stop thinking of her, even for a moment.

I feel like a pathetic idiot for that.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 265 | Registered: Oct 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, you may know who she is now, the journey you are presently on requires you to know who you are.
It *sounds* like your happiness depends on someone external to you. "Someone else".

No matter how hard it is, or how these words clang and pain your ears, the answer is YOU. (It's funny that rhymes with 42).

Derive your happiness, your peace, your own sense of self-worth from within.
Replace your deepest desire: wanting you wife back
with YOU.
Wanting you back.

Don't worry about the round brother, I got this one.

Let her go.
YOU go.
Go and find you!


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Distraut
♂ Member
Member # 38655
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, December 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustJim
You are in a good place here .There is a vast amount of knowledge and many caring menz who will listen to whatever you're going through at a particular time.
I am eight months D.My x is delusional cheated has no remorse blames me abandoned her children.
I have been in the dark place you speak of In fact I'm still healing.What you are being told is true .Find you.You can make it through this .We are here I have been helped tremendously here many times just by lurking.But I have posted asked for and received help when I asked.
It's been said this is the greatest place you never wanted to be.
You will be in my prayers.Hang in there!It does get better .Im developing patience like never before.I get stronger every day you will too.Take care of you!


Me47 BS
Her WW40
DD13
DS11
D Day 02/16/13
Married 15 years
divorced 04/02/2013
Moving on!

I asked her if she felt any remorse she said "I cry in the shower"


Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: midwest
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, December 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gents - need a little help for Mike7 who is currently over in Afghanistan. He is looking for WAL's rant on the different trajectories of the forgiving BH and the WW after they reconcile, and I can't find it in my arsenal. Wondering if someone else has this squirreled away. If you do, just post it here in the Menz thread.

Sal - just FYI, I just found out I won the psychic of the year for 2017. Right there with you brother.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, December 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dunno if this is it.....but even if not, still worth re-posting...
"...books sell you the idea that you'll have this even MORE amazing M (somehow) once you find out your wifes been fucking around behind your back..."

I think books largely ignore the experience of being a BH. I've heard a great many BW's say their marriage improved, and I'm at least partially convinced that the reason their marriage has improved is because an affair gives them all-time leverage to make their husbands comply with the relationship guidelines she wants to set. His choice is to comply or get the fuck out. Our society has models for what a compliant, former boys-will-be-boys cheater is supposed to look like. For men, it is accepted penance that if you cheat on your wife, the decent thing to do is to spend the rest of your life making it up to her.

Women get a different message. They're told they cheated only because we're assholes. There is no good model for the redemption of a wayward wife. There's no narrative for it. So they try to impose the feminine relationship model onto the reconciliation and use that as a metric to gauge progress. Which is often disastrous.

Most of the men I've seen who describe their marriages as recovered have done so within the framework of negotiating a new marriage that is less enmeshed than the previous one. One where they are more independent and feel like they have more of a right to get what they want out of the relationship, and not feel like the relationship is tuned toward the concept of making their wife feel happy and fulfilled which, honestly, is the way I think we pitch marriage in Western society. It is a very feminized institution, and all of the perceived value that arises from it is described in terms of feminine values (emotional intimacy, deep sharing, romantic love, etc.)

There's some variation here, of course, because even with men, most of us are modeling our parents marriage, so values will get weighted differently across the spectrum. I'm speaking in generalities by necessity. That is to say, some guys will really dig "my wife is my BFF" sorts of intimacy, and that's okay. If that's true for you, that should be one of your guiding principles in demanding what you need out of the new marriage.

But, by and large, men seem to be happier when they can lower the bar of emotional support they're expected to provide and start demanding that their wives start meeting their own needs. Where her drama doesn't have to become his drama, and he isn't expected to go above and beyond as an entitlement because she agreed to marry him.

I mean, there are two ways to feel really appreciated in your job: more money for a promotion to more important work, and the same money for dramatically less work. Either path leads to enormous amounts of job satisfaction. Know what I mean?

"but doesnt the thought of 'what if she did it again?' cross your mind? It is a real possibility since she's done it before and arent we almost always repeating our historical cycles throughout our lives?"

Sure. It crosses my mind a hell of a lot less now than it did in the first couple of years, mostly because my wife has done the sorts of work and trust-building to convince me that she's no longer the sort of person who sees cheating as a viable behavior.

But, you know, I think you can only be blindsided by infidelity once. After your spouse cheats, you know what they're capable of. If it happens again, it's not like it will really be a surprise. You've already lived through it. There's a layer of emotional insulation there that wasn't the first time it happened.

I enjoyed D-Day #2 (when my wife broke NC with the OM at 18 months) immensely more than D-day #1. Because I'd been through it. I knew how to handle myself. I suddenly had this awesome opportunity to say all of the really cruel, hurtful, absolutely brutal things I hadn't allowed myself to say in between those times because they would have just been pointlessly hurtful.

Good times, let me tell you.

I have a hard time believing I'd stay after another affair. There just wouldn't be enough left to interest me in her or the relationship. I mean, I gave practically five full years to recovering from her affair. I'm happy we reconciled, but it wasn't worth five years of my life. It sure as fuck wouldn't be worth another five years just to keep a claim on the same beat-up old vagina. I mean, none of the OM thought it was worth spending five years of their life to get in there, so it certainly wouldn't be worth that to keep it a second time around.

There are a great many vaginas in the world, most of which have a significantly lower threshold for entry than five years of misery.

Look, I don't believe that anyone in the world ever deserves a second chance. Second chances are a gift. Infidelity deserves divorce. That's the appropriate outcome in all cases.

Reconciliation is an extension of grace to someone who does not and cannot ever deserve it.
(Which is not to say that people don't deserve to be loved...just that not everyone deserves to be loved *by me*. And even if I continue to love you, that doesn't mean you get to be part of my life.)

The risk of reconciling is that your wife will choose to remain a fucked-up, cum-guzzling dick dumpster. She just might. There aren't any guarantees. I've gotten lots of gifts over the years that were well-intended, but not something I actually wanted to ever own, you know? Just because you offer the gift or reconciliation doesn't mean she's obligated to receive it.
I think that if you're smart, you watch her for a good, long time. You make sure she's consistent in her words and actions. When she starts acting like a c*nt, you tell her she's acting like a c*nt, and you re-evaluate the relationship. If she's failing consistently...at some point that stops being about how much of a c*nt she is and starts being about why you keep expecting a fucking Real Doll to be a actual, grown-up woman.
As I said above, you only get blindsided once. You know how to read the signs after that. She needs your collusion to get away with it again...a whole string of instances where you tell yourself, "Just because that looks bad doesn't mean it is bad. She's not like that."
(I don't know about you, but during my wife's A, I had several conversations with her where I distinctly remember saying, "You know, if someone who didn't know you like I do was looking at your behavior, they'd say you were probably cheating on me." I let my wife spend the night at OM's house at least two nights a week for almost a full year because I trusted her long story, makes sense if I tell the whole thing, don't feel like it right now.)

At the end of the day, you can't control anything she does. If she wants to give cleaning closet blow-jobs to the fax machine repair guy on her lunch hour, you can't stop her. That's not your fault, and it doesn't even say anything about you. Even the scores of people out there who believe infidelity is always the fault of the BS draw the line between misguided WW's who feel stuck and unable to express their needs and serial cheating bitches who couldn't keep their pants on with with an industrial nail gun and a crate of duct tape.

And they draw that line at "that dumb slut did it again can you believe she cheated twice?"


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, December 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal - just FYI, I just found out I won the psychic of the year for 2017

Tred, I meant to send my congrats last month, but didn't want to spoil the surprise.

"...books sell you the idea that you'll have this even MORE amazing M (somehow) once you find out your wifes been fucking around behind your back..."

As repulsive as I may find the concept, in my case the books have been right so far. The problems pop up every other month or so when I rebel against the concept of a marriage improved by betrayal and lies. That was my crisis around Thanksgiving.

I've heard a great many BW's say their marriage improved, and I'm at least partially convinced that the reason their marriage has improved is because an affair gives them all-time leverage to make their husbands comply with the relationship guidelines she wants to set. His choice is to comply or get the fuck out.

That certainly applies in our case. After D Day, I gave my wife a list of demands. Comply or we're done. She jumped through hoops to meet those demands. I guess it's not just BW's who get leverage this way. Very hard-earned leverage IMO.

Women get a different message. They're told they cheated only because we're assholes.

Yep, but I made it known right after D Day that that shit wasn't going to fly around here. And we were lucky enough to get a great (female) MC that advanced the idea that while there may have been legit reasons for marital dissatisfaction pre-A, the affair itself was a choice my wife made that reflected on her own character and lack of integrity. WW abandoned that finger-pointing mindset, at least outwardly, admitted to talking shit about me to her lover and others to justify her behavoir, and apologized profusely. She slipped up in August and said something to our daughter about me that almost blew R. Old habits are hard to break. The key is for the man to grow a pair and call bullshit on that message, unless he can look at himself honestly and admit that it's true. I mean, if you've spent a good part of your marriage chasing women and coming home drunk in the wee hours of the morning, maybe you'd have less room to complain about a wife who cheats because she's married to an asshole (wrongheaded though that may be).

Most of the men I've seen who describe their marriages as recovered have done so within the framework of negotiating a new marriage that is less enmeshed than the previous one. One where they are more independent and feel like they have more of a right to get what they want out of the relationship, and not feel like the relationship is tuned toward the concept of making their wife feel happy and fulfilled which, honestly, is the way I think we pitch marriage in Western society. It is a very feminized institution, and all of the perceived value that arises from it is described in terms of feminine values (emotional intimacy, deep sharing, romantic love, etc.)

There's something to this. Our recovery has involved a hybrid approach. We needed more enmeshment in certain areas, more independence in others. It's only been 10 months but so far the mix has been about right.

My wife has the occasional screw-up, but then again she IS screwed up or we wouldn't be here. All of our wives are screwed up to a certain extent.

She's working hard, though. I think a lot of WS's wake up once their bad deeds see the light of day and make sincere efforts to change and improve. The Wayward forum on this site is proof of that. The key for the BS is to accept the changes they are seeing and to get the A demons out of their heads. The last part is the real MF'er.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 10:47 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, December 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The last part is the real MF'er.

Uh huh. //nods head


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
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